/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #41760394

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 15:33:11 No.41760394 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>41760574 >>41764083 >>41764264 >>41764493 >>41765415 >>41765915 >>41765976 >>41766790 >>41766958 >>41769801 >>41770502

DRAGAPULT STOP RUNNING AWAY FROM ME
I NEED TO PURSUIT TRAP YOU
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 15:45:41 No.41760574 Report

Quoted By: >>41762493 >>41763898 >>41764033 >>41764440 >>41766499 >>41768562 >>41770972

>>41760394
why'd they cut pursuit
my lil nigga weavile would have been great against dragapult

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 18:02:01 No.41762493 Report

Quoted By: >>41763834 >>41763877 >>41764018 >>41764144 >>41770514

>>41760574
>why'd they cut Pursuit
I want to know what they were smoking when they cut fucking Return.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:22:16 No.41763834 Report

Quoted By: >>41763857 >>41763891 >>41763907 >>41763978 >>41765643 >>41765651 >>41768525 >>41770741

>>41762493
>let's not keep this poorly designed overdistributed move that makes every other physical normal move completely pointless

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:23:14 No.41763857 Report

Quoted By: >>41763921 >>41764635

>>41763834
now most normals don't have any good stab tho

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:24:32 No.41763877 Report

Quoted By:

>>41762493
Strange steam, strange stream all across the office.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:25:19 No.41763891 Report

Quoted By: >>41763921 >>41764015 >>41766274

>>41763834
>ground types (an actually good type) can have a 100bp 100acc move with zero drawbacks
>this is fine
>normal types (a shit type) have the same
>this isn't fine
kill you're selve

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:25:44 No.41763898 Report

Quoted By: >>41766674

>>41760574
For what it's worth, Pursuit was pretty oppressive to a lot of Psychics and Ghosts that really didn't need the extra pressure bringing them down.
Of course shit like Dragapult is exactly why it needed to stay around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:26:30 No.41763907 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763834
>cut return
>also cuts every other normal signature move
nice try

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:27:18 No.41763921 Report

Quoted By: >>41763942 >>41763946 >>41765621 >>41766255 >>41766748

>>41763857
>body slam and double edge aren't good stab
ok retard

>>41763891
>with zero drawbacks
Use it mindlessly in doubles and tell me how it goes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:28:26 No.41763942 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763921
>body slam and double edge aren't good stab
correct

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:28:40 No.41763946 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763921
>doubles
fanfic meta

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:30:57 No.41763978 Report

Quoted By: >>41764087

>>41763834
102 BP at max is not overpowered by any means, especially for a type that literally cannot land super effective hits on anything.

It's true that -ilate moves made it overpowered with certain Pokemon. But those Pokemon aren't even in SWSH. In fact, the biggest abuser was a mega which we'll probably never see again. Even then, Return was never a problematic move. Ever.

Cutting it was fucking stupid, and you're fucking stupid for defending the cut.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:33:29 No.41764015 Report

Quoted By: >>41764645

>>41763891
They literally invented an entire terrain just to fuck with EQ, and its existence immediately prompted people to switch to High Horsepower whenever available just to not deal with it,

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:33:48 No.41764018 Report

Quoted By: >>41764134 >>41765873 >>41766053 >>41766086 >>41771017

>>41762493
I don't like Return or HP on a conceptual level just being all purpose attacks you can stick on anyone.

Pursuit at least serves a unique purpose no other move does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:34:43 No.41764033 Report

Quoted By: >>41764056 >>41764440

>>41760574
Made being Psychic type a constant detriment I guess. However Gamefreak seems to have forgotten that Ghost types were also weak to it and those fuckers needed that check.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:35:50 No.41764051 Report

Quoted By: >>41764080

why did they cut heal order

Vespiqueen wasn’t even close to good or anything.

And nightmare was the shitiest of shit moves, but what is the harm in keeping moves for flavor? I had fun using it against the stupid npcs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:36:06 No.41764056 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764033
half the psychic types are also part fairy anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:37:23 No.41764080 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764051
because game freak is braindead
Noctowl lost fucking tailwind

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:37:29 No.41764083 Report

Quoted By:

>>41760394
Why don't you drop to UU without making a fuss, gramps?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:37:31 No.41764087 Report

Quoted By: >>41764169 >>41765565 >>41766393

>>41763978
>102 BP at max is not overpowered by any means
It is when it completely shits on every other physical normal move and nearly every pokemon has access to it.

>Cutting it was fucking stupid,
Nope. Use something else, retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:39:25 No.41764134 Report

Quoted By: >>41765946

>>41764018
Pursuit's purpose was to punish help punish Psychic-type which was overpowered in the generation prior to its creation. Psychic-type has long since ceased being a dominant typing, thus Pursuit's purpose shifted to unnecessarily pressuring typings that don't deserve it, not unlike Stealth Rocks.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:39:59 No.41764144 Report

Quoted By:

>>41762493
>I want to know what they were smoking when they cut fucking Return.
"As we have changed the mechanics of Friendship and Affection by merging them into one and altered various values of how this merged mechanic now functions, we found it very difficult to make Return and Frustration work effectively, especially in Return's case for trainers that do not seek an especially strong bond with their Pokemon that requires a special kind of closeness, such as playing in Camp. As such, we have decided to remove Return and Frustration until further notice. Keep Catching 'Em All, Trainers! (Laughs.)"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:41:07 No.41764169 Report

Quoted By: >>41764380

>>41764087
it actually didn't though? it was good but like body slam was widely used anyway for para, edge was all over the place because more damage, etc. it's like normal is a type with literally nothing it can hit super effectively, so it gets a bread and butter move that's a little stronger than average - that's completely reasonable and it still wasn't so good you couldn't run other stab on normal types. dropping it just nerfed a type that already really struggles to compete

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:46:56 No.41764264 Report

Quoted By:

>>41760394
Now that you mention it...
Did they seriously take out pursuit do they could shill the new psuedo?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:53:28 No.41764355 Report

Quoted By: >>41766627 >>41770362

Haha just sucker punch that loser haha
Oh wait no he's a pseudo-legendary who is surprisingly tanky despite being intended to be a frail fast sweeper. Just like every other dragon. Wow.
Every gen they need to make the dragon op enough, but this time the sucker punch nerf tells me for sure they enjoy letting dragons stomp the meta almost unchecked.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:55:18 No.41764380 Report

Quoted By: >>41764467 >>41764485 >>41764769 >>41764831 >>41764884 >>41765107 >>41765252 >>41765764 >>41771027 >>41771040

>>41764169
>it was good but like body slam was widely used anyway for para
No it wasn't. Everything uses Return.

>edge was all over the place because more damage
No it wasn't. Everything uses Return.

>like normal is a type with literally nothing it can hit super effectively
And yet literally only three types resist it so it's still a very good type for neutral coverage. Why do you think Dragon is so strong as an offensive type despite only being SE against itself? Even Pokemon that aren't Normal-type sometimes run it to get more coverage.

>really struggles to compete
Yeah Kangaskhan and Snorlax were really struggling.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 19:59:12 No.41764440 Report

Quoted By:

>>41760574
>>41764033
I for one welcome our new ghost overlords
my nigga cofagrigus is a fucking great wall this gen

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:00:50 No.41764467 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764380
based autistic retard telling me my dracovish uses return

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:02:02 No.41764485 Report

Quoted By: >>41765614

>>41764380
If a shitmon needs to use RETURN for coverage its movepool is fucking trash. Like Klinglang levels of trash.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:02:35 No.41764493 Report

Quoted By:

>>41760394
>will-o-wisps you
>u-turns out safely
nothing personal

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:14:03 No.41764635 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763857
>they didn't buff Mega Punch to 95 BP/100 accuracy

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:14:58 No.41764645 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764015
>its existence immediately prompted people to switch to High Horsepower whenever available just to not deal with it
>Ignoring that it didn't hit your ally in double was the main point
>Snorlax being the only notable user, in double for the reason above
>Literally only Rapidash would take it in singles since it doesn't learn Earthquake
Why are you even talking if you don't play the game ?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:23:39 No.41764769 Report

Quoted By: >>41765158 >>41765177

>>41764380
>Everything uses Return
>Dragon is strong as an offensive type
>Even pokemon that aren't normal type sometimes runs it to get more coverage
I lost some brain cells reading this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:27:09 No.41764831 Report

Quoted By: >>41764916

>>41764380
name some pokemon above NU that used return as coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:30:14 No.41764884 Report

Quoted By: >>41765158

>>41764380
let it be known
this anon actually implied that people often run non-stab outrage
a 1000 elo poster is among you

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:31:39 No.41764916 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764831
azumarill used return back in gen 4
that's all i've got

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:43:15 No.41765107 Report

Quoted By: >>41765158

>>41764380
>nonstab return coverage
you are terrible at Pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:45:44 No.41765158 Report

Quoted By: >>41765254 >>41765614

>>41764769
>no argument
I lost some brain cells reading this.

>>41764884
>>41765107
>non-stab
Where the fuck does the post say non-STAB? Learn how to read, illiterate retards.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:46:57 No.41765177 Report

Quoted By: >>41765468 >>41766731

>>41764769
>thinking dragon isn't a strong offensive type

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:50:26 No.41765252 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764380
Howdy yawnfag

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:50:27 No.41765254 Report

Quoted By: >>41765515

>>41765158
>Even Pokemon that aren't Normal-type sometimes run it to get more coverage
It's the very definition of non-STAB, and they're literally in your own words.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:58:38 No.41765415 Report

Quoted By:

>>41760394
play nationaldex, you faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 20:59:27 No.41765431 Report

Quoted By: >>41765511 >>41765850 >>41766746 >>41770893

The only move cut that was actually good was Hidden Power. If your mon vitally depended on it it was a poorly designed shitmon anyway.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:01:28 No.41765468 Report

Quoted By: >>41766731

>>41765177
But it's only strong against itself!
Neutral coverage? What's that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:03:30 No.41765511 Report

Quoted By: >>41766437

>>41765431
it would be fine if they gave the shitmons that literally had nothing but hidden power for coverage more moves
but they didn't, and removing a move that you balanced around for 5 gens is a bad idea

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:03:41 No.41765515 Report

Quoted By: >>41765642 >>41765671 >>41765892 >>41766776

>>41765254
You think Pokemon that aren't Normal type don't sometimes run Return? Are you retarded?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:06:12 No.41765565 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764087
>It is when it completely shits on every other physical normal move and nearly every pokemon has access to it.

Name a single meta where Return was ever the most used physical move.

No, aerialate/ pixilate dont count.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:08:59 No.41765614 Report

Quoted By: >>41765892

>>41765158
>Even pokemon that aren't normal type sometimes runs it to get more coverage
That's the definition of non stab retard.

For the arguments
>Everything uses Return
Yes if they're offensive, physical normal types, physical -ate users or if they have really nothing better.

No, you don't run Return on something like Miltank. You take Body Slam so you may paralyze your opponent.

>Dragon type is good as an offensive type
Draco Meteor is good. The type itself sucks.
Being super effective against only itself, resisted by Steel and useless against Fairy makes it terrible.
If you need to hit Dragon types you use a Fairy or Ice move, since they also provide coverage against other types.

>Pokemon that aren't Normal-type sometimes run it to get more coverage
Look at this >>41764485
Klinklang, which was already trash, got nerfed in the process. Hourray.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:09:24 No.41765621 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763921
Body Slam's distribution isn't so great though. Most Pokémon that get it by level up aren't even Normal type. Is the egg move distribution good?

Double Edge is good I guess but due to its recoil mostly suits glass cannon attackers which normal types usually aren't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:10:22 No.41765642 Report

Quoted By:

>>41765515
>NU Klinklang runs return
oh shit you got us bro

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:10:25 No.41765643 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763834
Absolute retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:10:50 No.41765651 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763834
How so? Double Edge is used for extra power at the cost of recoil, Body Slam for less damage but with the status chance. If anything they should distribute other moves more often.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:11:54 No.41765671 Report

Quoted By: >>41765892

>>41765515
>his example is a pokemon that is forced to run return because it has nothing else
stop replying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:16:12 No.41765764 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764380
>No it wasn't. Everything uses Return.
Oh yeah? Where’s the hard proof?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:21:32 No.41765850 Report

Quoted By:

>>41765431
t.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:22:54 No.41765873 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764018
>I don't like Return or HP on a conceptual level just being all purpose attacks you can stick on anyone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:24:22 No.41765892 Report

Quoted By: >>41766040

>>41765671
>d-doesn't count!
Fucking sad.

>>41765614
>That's the definition of non stab retard.
>>41765515

>Yes if they're offensive, physical normal types
Thanks for agreeing that Return takes a complete shit on every other Normal move for no real reason except bad design, which is why it was removed.

>The type itself sucks
No it doesn't.

>Being super effective against only itself
NEUTRAL coverage is important, retard.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:25:39 No.41765915 Report

Quoted By:

>>41760394
Almost there Tyranitar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:27:24 No.41765946 Report

Quoted By: >>41765979 >>41766095 >>41766122 >>41766286

>>41764134
This. Sneaky Pebbles is a brainlet move. Spikes were decent enough entry hazards that you had to spend time setting up to do decent damage on a switch. Rocks do twice the damage of max Spikes for a single rock weakness. I don't get the point of that move. It's not unbeatable by any means, but it's kinda boring. I want to see different tactics that it makes obsolete, especially since offense has no purpose running hazards anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:29:12 No.41765976 Report

Quoted By:

>>41760394
That's cute and all but Tyranitar can't beat the sub disable set even if it had pursuit. Enjoy being locked out of your moves and burned fag, ha ha

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:29:22 No.41765979 Report

Quoted By:

>>41765946
>especially since offense has no purpose running hazards anyway.
Absolute negative iq

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:33:12 No.41766040 Report

Quoted By: >>41766068

>>41765892
>Says that someone has no argument
>Dragon type sucks
>"no it doesn't"

>NEUTRAL coverage is important, retard
>Dropping any other type for a Dragon type move
>When Dragon types themselves would use anything else since gen 7

You're embarrassing

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:34:15 No.41766053 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764018
Sure, but nobody but normal types use return and offensive normal types are pure trash anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:35:12 No.41766068 Report

Quoted By: >>41766137 >>41766168

>>41766040
>>"no it doesn't"
Hmmmm maybe you should try reading one line below and stop being illiterate.

>>When Dragon types themselves would use anything else since gen 7
Show me a single Dragon type that doesn't run Dragon moves, retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:36:29 No.41766086 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764018
I actually like Return on a conceptual level because it’s one of the only ways you can see muh friendship being utilized in battle. Frustration on the other hand is fairly useless because of how difficult it is to maintain such a low happiness level.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:37:17 No.41766095 Report

Quoted By: >>41766133

>>41765946
>especially since offense has no purpose running hazards anyway
>there's no purpose in breaking focus sash and sturdy

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:39:10 No.41766122 Report

Quoted By:

>>41765946
bait?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:40:05 No.41766133 Report

Quoted By:

>>41766095
breaking sash/sturdy is ok but the real reason offense wants hazards is to punish defesive switches and chip stuff for a lategame sweep/midgame breaker

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:40:10 No.41766137 Report

Quoted By: >>41766214 >>41770503

>>41766068
>Mega Salamence
Flying stab is enough
>Mega Rayquaza
Movepool is wide enough
>Dragonite
Same as Rayquaza
>Charizard-X
Fire and Ground coverage is enough
>Zygarde
Thousand arrows is enough. Extreme Speed or even Iron Tail would be more valuable than Outrage.

You should just stop posting

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:41:47 No.41766168 Report

Quoted By: >>41770503

>>41766068
>Show me a single Dragon type that doesn't run Dragon moves, retard.
Not him, but Mega Altaria doesn’t run damaging Dragon-type moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:45:30 No.41766214 Report

Quoted By:

>>41766137
Zygarde occasionally runs dragon tail, I’m pretty sure Mega Fug runs Draco Meteor to blow things up. Salemence runs Outrage and Draco Meteor too, but it’s not common. The moves are still used, but they’re not unga bunga tier anymore.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:47:53 No.41766255 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763921
>body slam has lower damage output than EQ
>lol Double Edge
You are legit retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:49:09 No.41766274 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763891
EQ has big drawbacks in doubles and in Grassy Terrain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:49:45 No.41766286 Report

Quoted By:

>>41765946
>offense has no purpose running hazards anyway.
this is stallfag disinfo
i repeat, this is stallfag disinfo
ignore everything this anon says

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:55:49 No.41766393 Report

Quoted By: >>41766480

>>41764087
>It is when it completely shits on every other physical normal move and nearly every pokemon has access to it
But that makes no sense, how is this different from EQ completely shitting on every other ground move and being widely distributed too? Why wouldn't they remove EQ to force people to rely on magnitude, bulldoze, drill run, HHP, etc.? Why wouldn't they remove hyper voice for people to get creative with snore and round?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:57:57 No.41766437 Report

Quoted By:

>>41765511
They did do that though, for example Gardevoir got Mystical Fire, Keldeo got Air Slash, Venusaur got Earth Power. Name some examples that got actually fucked by HP being deleted. I'll start by mentioning that Eeveefags deserved it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 21:59:46 No.41766480 Report

Quoted By: >>41767239

>>41766393
>EQ
Has to deal with grassy terrain, which is more common now. Many Pokemon who can access HHP or DR will take those over EQ.
>Hyper Voice
Has almost no distribution

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:00:39 No.41766499 Report

Quoted By:

>>41760574
I theorize that since the speed alterations are dynamic and occur mid-turn, they weren't able to handle pursuit well enough to work in the new speed tier system

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:06:47 No.41766627 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764355
>Bitching about dragons post fairy type introduction
Back to gen 5 with your outdated complaint, goodra was pretty bad and kommo only got good with his Z move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:09:15 No.41766674 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763898
>cut pursuit
>leave in rocks

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:12:05 No.41766731 Report

Quoted By: >>41766974 >>41768645 >>41770503 >>41770535

>>41765177
>>41765468
>Does no damage to fairies and is resisted by steel types, the two most common types in pokemon strategy.
I mean, yeah, it's better than average, but it's still behind ground, fighting, fairy, Dark and Ghost on the offensive side.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:13:07 No.41766746 Report

Quoted By:

>>41765431
Fuck you ferro

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:13:10 No.41766748 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763921
Retard

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:14:48 No.41766776 Report

Quoted By: >>41770167 >>41770503

>>41765515
Moving the goalpost. You claimed you never said anything about non-STAB, I'm just pointing out where you did.

Also, non-STAB return is shit and any Pokemon that needs to run it is garbage competitively. Show me anything in OU that runs non-STAB Return. But you know you can't.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:15:33 No.41766790 Report

Quoted By: >>41770585

>>41760394
How come this place out of any other I've seen on the internet is so quick on defending cutting moves? I can see why Hidden Power was axed since now Weather Ball becomes the appropriate D-max moves when used under the weather instead of defaulting to the specific Normal max move like Z-moves did alongside HP, but everything else felt unnecessary.
At least it gives me hope that it'll return once we're done with this awful gimmick next gen. And hopefully they don't rehash Z-moves for the second time.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:26:51 No.41766958 Report

Quoted By: >>41770311

>>41760394
Run special T-Tar.
I'm serious.
Make Dragapult regeer switching out, because he just sacrificed his Ferrothorn buddy to T-Tar's Flamethrower/Fire Blast/ Max Flare+Sun while you still can [/spoiler:lit]
> Thunderbolt/Thunder
> Dark Pulse
> Surf/Hydro Pump
> Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Full speed full spa EVs.
Week shit and set up rain for Seismitoad, Sand for Excadrill, or Sun for insane Flare Blitz damage on Unga Bunga Snowman. (Ice Beam/Blizzard can be considered for Hail. Eiscue likes Hail for example. )

With Special T-Tar you have the ability to shift the weather in your favour with a wilde variety of weather conditions. Even without Dynamax it still will punish the wrong switch ons heavily. And its not as if Sand Stream is bad in of itself. He's my secret weapon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:27:50 No.41766974 Report

Quoted By: >>41770535

>>41766731
>Better than average
It's below Flying, Ice, Fire and Electric on top of those you mentionned.
It's among the worst offensively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:36:12 No.41767105 Report

Quoted By:

So what I'm getting from this thread is Dragon is defensive not offensive type

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 22:43:55 No.41767239 Report

Quoted By:

>>41766480
>Has to deal with grassy terrain, which is more common now. Many Pokemon who can access HHP or DR will take those over EQ.
This only applies in doubles. It’s almost nonexistent in OU which actually has a terrain setter running around. Like the only things you see with those moves are Pokémon who don’t have access to EQ.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Dec 2019 23:59:16 No.41768525 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763834
>makes every other physical normal move completely pointless
nice meme

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 00:02:02 No.41768562 Report

Quoted By: >>41768618

>>41760574
too lazy to figure out how to code it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 00:05:59 No.41768618 Report

Quoted By: >>41768772

>>41768562
They coded it just fine for the past 20 years.
Why can't they do it now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 00:08:02 No.41768645 Report

Quoted By:

>>41766731
Based Tamamo

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 00:16:39 No.41768772 Report

Quoted By:

>>41768618
Maybe it was op in vgc?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 01:19:00 No.41769801 Report

Quoted By: >>41770066 >>41770086

>>41760394
Fun fact Unburden doesn't trigger except with seeds in game now

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 01:37:47 No.41770066 Report

Quoted By: >>41770216

>>41769801
berries?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 01:39:25 No.41770086 Report

Quoted By: >>41770216

>>41769801
normal gem

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 01:45:10 No.41770167 Report

Quoted By: >>41770232 >>41770734

>>41766776
>any Pokemon that needs to run it is garbage competitively
Scizor and Excadrill have both run Return in the past for Rotom and Zapdos retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 01:48:19 No.41770216 Report

Quoted By:

>>41770086
Nope. Doesn't activate it any more. The herbs don't trigger unburden either any more in game

>>41770066
Sure, that still works.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 01:49:35 No.41770232 Report

Quoted By:

>>41770167
source?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 01:55:27 No.41770311 Report

Quoted By: >>41770835

>>41766958
>No rock stab
Even uninvested modest stone edge is more damaging than thunderbolt.

252+ SpA Tyranitar Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 210-248 (70.2 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

0- Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus: 302-356 (101 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 01:58:20 No.41770362 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764355
idk bisharp sucker punch obliterates it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:06:45 No.41770502 Report

Quoted By:

>>41760394
It hurts Ttarbros. Worst competitive change of the generation, even worse than Dynamax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:06:45 No.41770503 Report

Quoted By: >>41770526 >>41770734

>>41766137
>>41766168
>broken megashit that runs RETURN, the move retards are trying to suggest is well designed
>even then they still run dragon moves on many sets

wow, clearly this shows dragon is a horrible offensive type.

>>41766731
>but it's still behind ground, fighting, fairy, Dark and Ghost on the offensive side
No. None of those types have as good neutral coverage as Dragon does, except Ghost.

>>41766776
>Also, non-STAB return is shit
Clearly not if there are Pokemon running it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:07:16 No.41770514 Report

Quoted By:

>>41762493
I'm glad its gone but they need to buff the other generic normal attacks a bit. Pokemon actually using normal attacks that fit their anatomy like slam, crush claw, slash etc is way better than generic tackle with hearts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:08:08 No.41770526 Report

Quoted By: >>41770559 >>41770617

>>41770503
Mega Altaria doesn’t run Return

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:08:58 No.41770535 Report

Quoted By:

>>41766731
>>41766974
>hurrr neutral coverage? what's that? me need super effective damage!

I knew /vp/ was bad at competitive but this is hilarious. There's a fucking reason Fairy-type got added to the game.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO file.png, 62KiB, 879x198

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:10:10 No.41770559 Report

Quoted By: >>41770595

>>41770526
>

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:10:56 No.41770574 Report

Quoted By:

They removed Return at the same time they buffed Multi-Attack

Only Silvally is allowed to have strong Normal STAB with no drawbacks now

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:11:12 No.41770585 Report

Quoted By:

>>41766790
>How come this place out of any other I've seen on the internet is so quick on defending cutting moves?
Because cutting moves isn't inherently bad and the only people who think otherwise are "UNGA BUNGA THING IN PREVIOUS GAME SO THING BEING REMOVED BAD" redditards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:11:52 No.41770595 Report

Quoted By: >>41770682 >>41770921

>>41770559
Look at the stats, not smogon’s analysis. It either doesn’t run it or the usage is so low it doesn’t show up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:13:03 No.41770617 Report

Quoted By: >>41770734

>>41770526
Oh wait, it did. Along with Mega Pinsir and Salamence

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:16:38 No.41770682 Report

Quoted By: >>41770909

>>41770595
>it's just a coincidence all three of the analysis sets run return, trust me bro

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1491903730688.jpg, 35KiB, 625x415

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:18:58 No.41770734 Report

Quoted By:

>>41770167
Bullshit, especially for Excadrill. Mold Breaker and Rockslide are more than enough to deal with them both.

Most Scizor sets used Bullet Punch, U-turn/Bug Bite, Pursuit, and Superpower. Some of them used Quick Attack. I've never, ever, ever seen one use fucking Return, and there's not a single set for either of them on Smogon in any gen, or any tier even mentions fucking Return. Return is absolutely terrible for coverage and only used as such when a Pokemon has literally nothing else.

>>41770503
See the very last sentence in my reply to the other post. No one uses non-STAB Return if they have other options.

Also, Mega Altaria isn't broken, it sits in UU for a reason.

>>41770617
You know what they all have in common? -ilate abilities, which are very overpowered. Even GF acknowledged this fact when they nerfed them last gen. Don't blame the move itself for that, dumbass. Why not blame Gamefreak instead for not giving any of those Pokemon decent moves for those types?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:19:23 No.41770741 Report

Quoted By:

>>41763834
>that makes every other physical normal move completely pointless
...no? Fake Out, Facade, and Body Slam are all options and none of them are invalidated by Return.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tiny bait.jpg, 59KiB, 1000x1000

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:24:41 No.41770835 Report

Quoted By: >>41770949

>>41770311
>tornadus

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:27:28 No.41770893 Report

Quoted By:

>>41765431
eat shit landorus

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:28:11 No.41770909 Report

Quoted By: >>41770921

>>41770682
Well what does mega altaria run then

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:29:14 No.41770921 Report

Quoted By:

>>41770909
meant for >>41770595 im retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:30:52 No.41770949 Report

Quoted By:

>>41770835
>Somehow that makes the calc invalid.
I know it isn't in SwSh do you retards really need someone to point this out every single time?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:31:58 No.41770972 Report

Quoted By:

>>41760574
Probably because of an unexpected interaction with Dynamax that they couldn't bother fixing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:34:40 No.41771017 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764018
Except nobody uses normal coverage. Return made gave normal types a fairly unique attribute in a strong, reliable STAB with no drawback.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:35:24 No.41771027 Report

Quoted By: >>41771118

>>41764380
>it's still a very good type for neutral coverage
Not when Steels are everywhere. If you're running Return for coverage you likely have nothing better. Decided to go through the tiers to see what uses it and disregarding everything running it for STAB or anything with -ate abilities, we get:
>in OU
Slurpuff who's in ~1/500 teams
>in UU
Slurpuff again who's in ~1/500 teams
>in RU
Slurpuff who's in ~1/100 teams
Qwilfish who's in ~1/200 teams
lmao Flareon
>in NU
Klingklang who's in ~1/33 teams
lmao Leafeon
>in PU
Carnivine
Swirlix
Cherrim

These Pokemon progressively get worse and worse. They're not good at all and they only run Return because they don't have other options. So no, Return isn't a good coverage move. It's run by things that desperately need other options but didn't get them.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO sub 1001 shitter.png, 2KiB, 252x36

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:36:17 No.41771040 Report

Quoted By:

>>41764380

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 02:39:55 No.41771118 Report

Quoted By:

>>41771027
Also ran through VGC14 and the ultra series. Nothing there without -ate or Normal-typing runs Return either.

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