/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #41861254

Except for the Mimic line, those are all valid.

>>41861353
Anon, MegaTen had been around for 10 years at that point and even had games on GB hardware pre-Pokemon. There's no excuse for how slapdash the coding was in Gen I when there was even another monster collection game to take inspiration from.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:10:30 No.41861427 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861353
When the game's bugs make moves not do what they're supposed to then it's a legit complaint, it doesn't matter how old the game is. Doesn't mean they're bad games, but with Gen 1 it's pretty ridiculous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:11:31 No.41861443 Report

Quoted By: >>41861494

>>41861392
They aren't though. Most all of them are "pokemon used to be different than how it is now, so that means it's a problem."

Also the whole thing is cringe as shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:15:06 No.41861494 Report

Quoted By: >>41861537

>>41861443
Nearly all of this comes up in speedrunning and casual battles though as there were people who abused the shit out of broken mechanics like Fire Spin and Speed Crits/OHKOs. As the years go on and more of the code comes to light, Gen I's jank just becomes ever more baffling. Being the first game doesn't shield it from criticism if it was even bad in the context of its contemporaries.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:16:12 No.41861514 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861392
>There's no excuse for how slapdash the coding was in Gen I
Good thing it wasn't slapdash then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:17:21 No.41861525 Report

Quoted By: >>41861617

>>41861254
>>most of these aren't actual issues with the game
Why not?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:18:01 No.41861537 Report

Quoted By: >>41861606

>>41861494
>if it was even bad in the context of its contemporaries.
But it wasn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:19:02 No.41861554 Report

Quoted By: >>41861561

>>41861254
Gen 1 was legitimately great.

But it *was* broken as all fuck. Anyone who claims otherwise is trolling.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:19:39 No.41861561 Report

Quoted By: >>41861598 >>41861606 >>41861654

>>41861554
>But it *was* broken as all fuck.
Not really.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:22:15 No.41861593 Report

Quoted By: >>41861609 >>41861711

>>41861254
>crits were based off speed isn't a problem
>instakill moves based off speed isn't a problem
>Focus Energy literally hurtin you and lying isn't a problem
>Critical Hits ignoring your stat increases isn't a problem
>Agility ignoring paralysis isn't a problem
>Perma-Frost unless your OPPONENT uses a fire move isn't a problem
>Countering OHKO moves isn't fucking retarded
>Counter only working on normal and fighting types isn't a problem
>Saving everytime you switched boxes wasn't annoying
>Being unable to catch a Pokemon with a full box wasn't a problem
>Programming oversight in the 1/256 glitch isn't a problem
>binding moves stopping the opponent from doing anything isn't a problem
>Roar and Whirlwind NOT working for no reason in PvP isn't a problem
>potential Hyper Beam spam isn't a problem
>Rest not fixing stats affect by status isn't a problem
>Ghosts unaffected by struggle not a problem
>Buffing too high to the point it hurts your stats isn't a problem
>Recovering moves can fail for no reason isn't a problem
>Chaining 5 critical multi-hit moves isn't a problem
>Trapping yourself in the air/ground and being unable to be defeated isn't a problem
>Special stat ISN'T retarded

Congrats, you're a retard and gen 1 was broken. Games are fine, but broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:22:42 No.41861598 Report

Quoted By: >>41861708

>>41861561
Yeah, if you ignore the various programming errors, it was perfectly unbroken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:23:39 No.41861606 Report

Quoted By: >>41861708 >>41861710

>>41861537
Last Bible 1 and 2 make it look amateur as fuck.

>>41861561
>Over/underflow errors EVERYWHERE
>Not broken

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DD34A99F-082A-4586-8C31-1B8B4934 (...).jpg, 54KiB, 625x626

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:23:52 No.41861609 Report

Quoted By: >>41861674

>>41861593

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:24:24 No.41861617 Report

Quoted By: >>41861645 >>41861732 >>41861779 >>41861790 >>41861825 >>41861927 >>41862384

>>41861525
Explain how "crits based on speed" is a problem
Explain how "toxic turns into normal poison" is a problem
Explain how "not having to recharge after KOing a pokemon with hyper beam" is a problem

A lot of these just sound like "mechanics I personally don't like" than actual objective problems. You may as well count trapping abilities and gen 5's sleep mechanics and dynamax removing choice boosts as problems too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:25:50 No.41861645 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861617
>Explain how "crits based on speed" is a problem
Persian and Tauros. Now I know you haven't done the battling.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:26:24 No.41861654 Report

Quoted By: >>41861774

>>41861561
>focus energy and dire hit have opposite effect
>the infamous 1/256 miss
>cinnabar coast abuse
>crits ignore all modifiers, meaning normal hit with swords dance deals more damage than a crit with it
okay

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:27:03 No.41861674 Report

Quoted By: >>41861715

>>41861609
It's not bait, though. These are all facts.

How much they bother you and affect your own personal enjoyment of the game is up to personal preference, but these games both have coding that doesn't perform as intended, and have mechanics that allow unfair and unintended behavior by players, which is the objective, dictionary definition of a broken game.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Tweaking_glitch_chunk_error.png, 11KiB, 256x192

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:27:50 No.41861687 Report

Quoted By: >>41861716

>>41861254
Because Zoomers keep forgetting how glitchy their own games are

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:28:47 No.41861708 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861606
>Last Bible 1 and 2 make it look amateur as fuck
[citation needed]

>>Over/underflow errors EVERYWHERE
But they aren't.

>>41861598
>Yeah, if you ignore the various programming errors
Pretty easy to do considering most of them are incredibly hard to come across.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:28:56 No.41861710 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861606
yeah but nobody wants to fucking play last bible for a reason

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:28:59 No.41861711 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861593
>Recovering moves can fail for no reason isn't a problem
i am pretty sure they fail if the difference between current and max HP is 255 or 511
since it's FF and 1FF in hexadecimal, I assume the code thinks there's nothing to heal

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:29:03 No.41861715 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861674
you can stop baiting now, buddy. I know you want more (You)s but sometimes it’s good to know when to stop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:29:06 No.41861716 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861687
isn't there a version of this chard for every generation?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:30:11 No.41861732 Report

Quoted By: >>41861801

>>41861617
>Explain how "crits based on speed" is a problem
high critical moves
they jack up the ratio so much that some Pokemon will ALWAYS crit with them
it's like modern crit set up, except you can do it turn one

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:31:47 No.41861761 Report

Quoted By: >>41861803

>>41861254
Let me break these down 1 by one. Reference the pic to see which one I'm talking about, not typing all that up.
>flaw
>not a flaw, but there needed to be more punishments for switching out bulky mons such as pursuit
>flaw, crits were never good
>flaw
>flaw
>flaw, crits were never good
>flaw
>flaw
>not a flaw
>not a flaw
>flaw
>flaw
>flaw
>flaw, trapping moves were never good
>not a flaw, the games told you they were useless outside the wild
>flaw, but they were shit moves and they at least rewarded good timing
>flaw
>flaw
>flaw
>flaw
>flaw, subsititute was bugged up the ass lol
>flaw
>flaw, rage was completely broken back then and it's a shit move today
>flaw
>disabling random moves is a flaw, building the rage counter is not
>flaw
>not a flaw per se
>flaw
>not a flaw per se
>flaw
>flaw
Yeah, Gen 1 is flawed overall, but it's clearly exaggerated a little bit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:32:42 No.41861774 Report

Quoted By: >>41861829 >>41861900

>>41861654
Only the first one you listed is an actual broken bug. The second and fourth aren't bugs and the third requires doing an extremely specific sequence of steps to even trigger making it nearly impossible to find by accident.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:33:07 No.41861779 Report

Quoted By: >>41861840

>>41861617
>Explain how "crits based on speed" is a problem
Take a pokemon
Give it a high speed stat. Give it a high damage move.
Now it goes first always, and when it does, it deals critical damage. The ultimate sweeper, no setup required.
The REAL kicker is when the chance that OHKO moves hit is the exact same chance as a critical move. So take a Tauros, feed it Carbos, teach it Fissure, have a monster that will instantly win you the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:33:33 No.41861790 Report

Quoted By: >>41861840

>>41861617
>Explain crits
Because the fast hard hitting Pokemon like Tauros will crit damn near 100% of the time, making it unreasonable to defeat without your own Tauros. Fast Pokemon doing several times more damage just because they're fast is retarded.
>Explain Toxic
Toxic stacks damage, therefore it's more advantageous for you to use Toxic against a player. It's unfair to the player who uses toxic if you can so easily replace it with normal poison damage.
>Explain Hyper Beam
Because Hyper beam has 150 base power, meaning a move that you can use over and over again, provided you're strong enough to OHKO your opponents pokemon, with a ridiculous base power. Does that sound even remotely balanced to you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:34:03 No.41861801 Report

Quoted By: >>41861846

>>41861732
ok but how is this a problem

just last night I made a set up with galarian farfetch'd so I could have a 100% crit rate. Is that a problem too?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:34:13 No.41861803 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861761
How could one person be so wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:35:27 No.41861825 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861617
>Explain how "toxic turns into normal poison" is a problem
>Explain how "not having to recharge after KOing a pokemon with hyper beam" is a problem
Because it's not working as it should be.

Crits based off of speed is just poor game balance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:35:49 No.41861829 Report

Quoted By: >>41861869

>>41861774
>The second and fourth aren't bugs
Come on anon, the 1/256 thing is a literal computer bug. Are you going to lie about the meaning of words now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:36:28 No.41861840 Report

Quoted By: >>41861894

>>41861779
>>41861790
>mechanics I don't like are problems

shit I guess mega evolutions are a problem too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:36:38 No.41861846 Report

Quoted By: >>41861884

>>41861801
>Set up
You see, that's the problem. I guarantee there's extra shit you have to do to let him crit 100% of the time. If you opponent let's you set your Farfetch'd up to do that it's his fault. But in gen 1, and a Pokemon like Tauros, there is no set up. He just exists in that hyper state. If I had a Scizor that always had x4 attack would that be fair or a properly balanced game? No. But if I got 3 swords dances off in a game then that's my opponents fault for being a retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:36:40 No.41861847 Report

Quoted By:

>Zoomers are lecturing everyone else on what is and isn't fair

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:37:30 No.41861869 Report

Quoted By: >>41861889 >>41861977

>>41861829
>Come on anon, the 1/256 thing is a literal computer bug.
Says who?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:38:31 No.41861884 Report

Quoted By: >>41861948

>>41861846
So Mega Salamence and Gengar and Mawile are problems. Got it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:38:41 No.41861889 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861869
Do I really have to explain the meaning of a bug to you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:38:57 No.41861894 Report

Quoted By: >>41861935

>>41861840
>mechanics that fundamentally break game balance aren't problems
Here's my last (you), you should ask yourself why pretending to be retarded online gives you any sense of validation/gratification. You seem like you're lacking shit in your real life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:39:14 No.41861900 Report

Quoted By: >>41861921

>>41861774
>1/256 miss isn't a bug
It is. If you check Stadium, you can clearly see the stats in G1.
A move that has 100% accuracy can still miss 1/256 of the time.
I forgot the details but basically accuracy is an internal number, and if the game rolls a high enough number (0,255), the move misses. The problem is that the game considers landing n exactly the internal number a miss, meaning every move actually misses (X+1) in 256 times, instead of X in 256.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:40:36 No.41861921 Report

Quoted By: >>41861982

>>41861900
>A move that has 100% accuracy
But where does Red and Blue say the move is supposed to have 100% accuracy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:40:47 No.41861927 Report

Quoted By: >>41861958

>>41861617
>A lot of these just sound like "mechanics I personally don't like" than actual objective problems.
The only one of those that is actually a mechanic and not a bug if the speed crit thing, which is still poorly balanced.
Everything else is about as much of a "mechanic" as psychic being incorrectly coded to be immune to ghost.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:41:37 No.41861935 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861894
>>mechanics that fundamentally break game balance aren't problems
So mega evolution is a problem. Glad we agree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:42:21 No.41861948 Report

Quoted By: >>41861972

>>41861884
Honestly? Kinda. Hyper Powerful Pokemon like that ARE unreasonable to defeat in normal circumstances. Though this time not due to bad programming or retarded decisions, this time due to purposeful retardation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:42:35 No.41861951 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861254
It's very outdated but nowhere near unplayable as some people say

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:42:51 No.41861958 Report

Quoted By: >>41862032

>>41861927
[citation needed]

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:43:53 No.41861972 Report

Quoted By: >>41862106

>>41861948
>or retarded decisions
Megas existing sounds like a pretty retarded decision to me anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:44:07 No.41861977 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861869
That's a known bug in 8-bit processing as the numbers you could call were either 1-256 or 0-255 and if a calculation would go lower or higher than the allotted range, it underflows to the lowest possible value or overflows to the highest possible value. This is what caused the now memetic Gandhi glitch in Civilization and what causes supposedly 100% accuracy moves to miss 1/256 times in Gen I.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:44:26 No.41861982 Report

Quoted By: >>41862020 >>41862046

>>41861921
> If you check Stadium, you can clearly see the stats in G1.
Also, internal data; though an average person won't be able to see that, unlike Stadium (which shows data in a better way).
Swift skips the formula completely, to the point that it can hit through Dig and Fly unlike other moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:44:50 No.41861987 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861254
>using agility negates the speed cut from paralysis, same for swords dance/burn

this should have stayed that's fucking based

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:45:09 No.41861993 Report

Quoted By: >>41862061

Snorlax and Grimmsnarl's Max Move only works 50% of the time instead of 100% of the time guys! This is a bug because I say so :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:46:09 No.41862020 Report

Quoted By: >>41862042 >>41862056

>>41861982
>> If you check Stadium, you can clearly see the stats in G1.
But where does Red and Blue say the move is supposed to have 100% accuracy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:47:24 No.41862032 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861958
my citation is basic common sense, not that you've ever heard of it

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:48:00 No.41862041 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861254
>What do people lie to themselves in order to believe that Gen 1 wasn't GOAT?
nostalgia

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:48:00 No.41862042 Report

Quoted By: >>41862061

>>41862020
What’s your point? The player didn’t know about the accuracy error so therefore it’s not a problem?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:48:13 No.41862044 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861254
>moves not doing what they're supposed to
>aren't actual issue
Fuck off, faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:48:22 No.41862046 Report

Quoted By: >>41862119

>>41861982
And Swift can still miss with a 1/256 chance right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:49:10 No.41862056 Report

Quoted By:

>>41862020
internal data, i said it as an alternative, please read.
no i don't that you can't see it without special tools.
getting information via datamining is a thing, otherwise we'd never know the exact stats for every pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:49:22 No.41862057 Report

Quoted By: >>41862119

Everyone complaining about Tauros and Persian's critical ratio just needs to run gengar or anything with confuse ray, wrap, sleep powder, or any other number of counters...

Ya dipshits.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:49:42 No.41862061 Report

Quoted By: >>41862119 >>41862123

>>41862042
How is it an error if the game itself never even says the move is supposed to have 100% accuracy? Is >>41861993
an error too?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:52:53 No.41862106 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861972
It does to a lot of people my dude

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:53:24 No.41862119 Report

Quoted By:

>>41862046
Swift's the exception as it doesn't calculate against the RNG; it's set to 'true'. All other moves are subject to it.

>>41862057
>What is Earthquake

>>41862061
Because every move is still coded with a distinct accuracy value even if it's not readily available to the player in game. HOWEVER. Game guides at the time did say what the accuracy values were so that's just missing QoL on GF's part.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:53:29 No.41862123 Report

Quoted By:

>>41862061
The player wouldn’t know but the internal game code lists the move as having 100% accuracy while at the same time mishandling the accuracy calculation because they forgot an = sign. I guess in your mind if the player doesn’t know the game isn’t working as intended, no harm no foul?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1566167924987.png, 163KiB, 501x506

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 00:54:39 No.41862133 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861331
This image has been around since at least 2013, when the oldest zoomers were in junior high school. Most likely it was generated by your fellow boomer.
You know people who grew up with the game are capable of not liking it, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 01:05:01 No.41862289 Report

Quoted By:

Ignoring most of those flaws, things like the gen1 backbag, having to use hms from pokemon menu, awful movesets, waking up from sleep and wrap/clamp being broken were major flaws that made playing the games painful. Even then there was basically nothing gen1 did better than the later games. Sure, they were a wonderdul ride back when people didnt know of better, but when gen2 launched everybody agreed it was better even when the pokemon fad was basically over.
The remakes are way, way better

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 01:05:36 No.41862296 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861254
The real issue with these games are the god awful movepools. Just fucking look at this garbage.
https://pokemondb.net/pokedex/rhyhorn/moves/1

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 01:06:06 No.41862309 Report

Quoted By:

I love how janky the gen 1 games are. It's fun to do a playthrough using all the different glitches

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 01:10:55 No.41862384 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861617
Most of these mechanics were removed and replaced in the very next generation

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 21f.png, 52KiB, 192x182

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 01:59:20 No.41863075 Report

Quoted By: >>41863455 >>41864417

>>41861254
TL;DR
>Gen 1 battling is unbalanced dood! All the other gens are perfectly balanced! That is why we need a third party to set rules for competitive Pokemon!
If these Zoomers have no other complaints other than balancing issues which has always been a problem, they can fuck off back to S&S that has way worse problems then balancing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 02:27:16 No.41863455 Report

Quoted By:

>>41863075
Based

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO the bullshit about gen 1.jpg, 827KiB, 1400x1395

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 02:30:15 No.41863483 Report

Quoted By:

>>41861254

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 03:33:26 No.41864417 Report

Quoted By:

>>41863075
True. Gen 1 is a pretty great gen besides all the hiccups with the battle system. You really have to go out of your way for half of these anyway.

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