/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #41963651

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:07:10 No.41963651 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>41963668 >>41963704 >>41963731 >>41963869 >>41963881 >>41963891 >>41963938 >>41963940 >>41964218 >>41964319 >>41964427 >>41964789 >>41964807 >>41964837 >>41965437 >>41965464 >>41965521 >>41965745

Honestly these were the only shitstains of the dex
Why weren’t they form differences instead?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:08:52 No.41963668 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651

They were meant to be a "second set of starters" you could use against the first gym and that's it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:11:56 No.41963704 Report

Quoted By: >>41963731 >>41964892

>>41963651
There should have been one eevee monkey that could evolve into simisage, simisear, or simipour. Not three separate evolution lines.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:13:42 No.41963731 Report

Quoted By: >>41964031 >>41965316

>>41963651
>>41963704
They were designed around the first gym leaders. There’s no way they would make form differences and an “Eevee monkey” is fucking retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:15:02 No.41963752 Report

Quoted By: >>41964564 >>41965428

the real problem was making them a giftmon that you just get before the gym instead of it being like
>time to challenge the gym
>oh shit my starter just got fucked by that monkey now i kinda want one of my one
>and there should be one of every starting type, nice!
but no, it was just "here have this so you dont lose to the gym :)"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:21:52 No.41963854 Report

Quoted By: >>41965491

I kinda like the idea of having early route Grass, Fire and Water mons functioning as a "second set of starters" ngl, I think they tried to pull it off this gen with Gossifleur, Sizzlipede and Chewtle instead of making a shitty obvious trio that are all ripoffs of each other.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:23:23 No.41963869 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
Hey fuck you they're great.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:24:24 No.41963881 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
Masuda wanted so badly for his magnum opus to have the biggest Dex. This is why Gen 5 has so many 3-stage lines.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:24:58 No.41963891 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
So these are the incredible designs unovaborts tell me about huh?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:26:09 No.41963914 Report

Quoted By:

inb4 "but they make sense three sages yadda yadda"

fuck making sense, they suck to play with and they suck to look at

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:27:33 No.41963938 Report

Quoted By: >>41966378 >>41966471

>>41963651
Because forms weren't invented yet

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:27:42 No.41963940 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
They should've made it so you can breed any 2 different ones to get a combined-type third.
>Sage+Sear = , Pansap, Simisap
>Sage + Pour = Pansod, Simisod
>Sear + Pour = Pansoot, Simisoot

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:33:06 No.41964031 Report

Quoted By: >>41964194

>>41963731
No reason why cilan/chili/cress couldn't have been the 2nd or 3rd gym leaders. And cheren replaced them anyways in B2W2. Plus, an eevee monkey like tyrogue would have made more sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:44:25 No.41964194 Report

Quoted By: >>41964795

>>41964031
It was already decided that they were going to be part of the first gym.
>Plus, an eevee monkey like tyrogue would have made more sense
I don’t think so

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:46:15 No.41964218 Report

Quoted By: >>41966682

>>41963651

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 17:52:48 No.41964319 Report

Quoted By: >>41964736

>>41963651
How are these any worse, design-sise than Latios and Latias?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:01:19 No.41964427 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
I like the green monkey

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:10:06 No.41964564 Report

Quoted By: >>41964754 >>41965428

>>41963752
this is my gripe agaisnt 5 gen, people seems to defend this gen but you can notice first nupokemon retardness simplification like this one

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:23:30 No.41964736 Report

Quoted By:

>>41964319
Lati@s
>Two Slots
>Legendary
>Lore Related Similarities
Monkeys
>Six Slots
>Generic Pokemon
>No interesting reason for them to look so alike

I don't hate the Monkeys,in fact I love the idea of a second starter trio, but there are more interesting ways to design them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:24:53 No.41964754 Report

Quoted By: >>41964871

>>41964564
Most games before and after BW had Pokemon strong against the Gym Leader's type. The gift mon doesn't require a fight, but it's optional, you can't just catch a bunch of them to cheese the Gym Leader, and the game already stacks things against you by making the Gym Leader have the type advantage over you. And if you don't use the monkey, you still have a (comparatively) challenging opponent.

Emperor Palpitoad

Emperor Palpitoad Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:27:20 No.41964789 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
Because for some reason they tried to make one gen with a full pokedex of unique pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:27:43 No.41964793 Report

Quoted By: >>41964923

Unova in general had a weak pokedex

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:28:00 No.41964795 Report

Quoted By: >>41965512

>>41964194
And it could have been decided otherwise.
Besides, why are you so against the eevee monkey idea? Having one 1 Pour that evolves into the 3 Simis would have saved us 2 extra slots in the pokedex.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:28:46 No.41964807 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
I like them solely for their dex entries, it's pretty cute.

Brett !!TORtoOQMEfy

Brett !!TORtoOQMEfy Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:29:25 No.41964816 Report

Quoted By: >>41964825

I'm sick of this slot meme, honestly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:30:08 No.41964825 Report

Quoted By:

>>41964816
>tripfag complaining about literally anything
Put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:31:22 No.41964837 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
>hating on based elemental monkeys
Absolute shit taste.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:34:16 No.41964871 Report

Quoted By: >>41966154

>>41964754
Yes, however there is a difference between trusting the players to have the brains to use the resources provided and handing them the solution on a silver platter.
Giving the Monkeys as a gift and not as an optional wild encounter just makes it seem like the devs don't trust the players to actually play the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:35:51 No.41964892 Report

Quoted By: >>41967397

>>41963704
Actualy it would be cool gimmic if base stage could learn everybasic elemental move and then you could evolve it with stone to became specialized

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:38:25 No.41964923 Report

Quoted By: >>41964969 >>41965390

>>41964793
>Pokedex with balanced type distribution
Better than the Sinnoh dex

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 18:42:52 No.41964969 Report

Quoted By:

>>41964923
Rent free

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:05:59 No.41965316 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963731
>Eevee monkey
And give people more reasons why they believe the Unova dex is a “ripoff” of Kanto’s? Noooo, thank you. Either cut out the fire and water monkeys entirely, or give the Simi’s a powerful evo that emphasizes their delinquent inspirations.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:10:26 No.41965390 Report

Quoted By: >>41965525

>>41964923
>needing a fire type

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:12:26 No.41965428 Report

Quoted By: >>41965700

>>41963752
>>41964564
I always took the gym as trying to tell the player to not solely rely on their starter

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:13:45 No.41965437 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
Daily reminder that this is their trio master.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:15:50 No.41965464 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
wish they had a 3rd evo and didnt rely on stones to evolve, but id rather they have different names than be a form difference.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:16:10 No.41965470 Report

Quoted By: >>41965508 >>41965700

They wanted to push the elemental affinity mechanic as much as possible, both to teach new players and to make it up to the lost KANTOOOOOOO demographic who never really learned type match-ups because RBY aren't well-designed. You're encouraged to not use your starter, subverting the instinct everyone has to use the mon they like most, and instead have to use this new monkey who has an advantage.
It has to be the first gym, so that the game starts off with you achieving victory by using type affinity. And the monkeys can't be Eevee or whatever the fuck because the player might not understand evolution yet, and the monkeys need to obviously represent their typing. The entire thing is the best tutorial Pokémon has ever had.
It's unfortunate that the monkeys are so fucking ugly no one would ever want one, but I guess they didn't realize it until it was too late.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:17:36 No.41965491 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963854
We've had pretty good options for early water and grass since gen 3, but fire types are still scarce. Talonflame was amazing and replaced fenniken easily

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:19:18 No.41965508 Report

Quoted By: >>41965700

>>41965470
Continuing from this point, all of you dumbfucks complained because DURR I SHOULDN'T BE HANDED THE SUPER EFFECTIVE MONKEY which is why fucking Let's Go doesn't even allow you into Brock's gym unless you have Mankey.
Congrats, assholes, they listened to your complaints.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:19:48 No.41965512 Report

Quoted By:

>>41964795
>And it could have been decided otherwise
Ok but why though?
>Besides, why are you so against the eevee monkey idea?
Because I don’t like it. Not only is it a rehashed concept already done before, but it’s also less interesting. What’s special about the monkey to warrant this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:20:29 No.41965521 Report

Quoted By: >>41965781

>>41963651
>only
lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:21:05 No.41965525 Report

Quoted By:

>>41965390
>Didn't add fire types aside from Ponyta but Skuntank learns flamethrower
>Fire type elite four with 2/5 fire types
Someone really hated fire types in gen 4, or maybe they really liked Infernape since he's the best starter and only viable fire type

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:34:13 No.41965700 Report

Quoted By: >>41965804 >>41965907

>>41965470
>>41965428
>>41965508
It's a terrible tutorial because it is forced on the player and provides no real user input, it would be better if the triplets kicked the players ass hard and the players were forced to seek out a different Pokemon besides their starter on their own. As it stands it doesn't teach anything to a player who is seriously struggling or a child mashing through the dialog.
>Set up Cilian/Cress/Chili to be the strongest first gym leader with a great movepool, max IV/EVs.
>Players who don't understand Pokemon naturally lose.
>Black out to Pokemon Center
>NPC talks to player "I heard about what happened, blah, blah, blah." Explain that you can't win with one Pokemon and a balanced team is required.
>Encourage player to visit the Pokemon Academy and try different kinds of Pokemon to see what works because of type match-ups.
>Hand the player more Pokeballs to reinforce the idea.
>Player goes and catches more and tries again. The Monkeys are in the nearby grass and and players will naturally want to catch them

That is just a quick idea off the top of my head. Their are probably better solutions that could better lead to the player being incentivized to learn the type weaknesses. I don't feel though handing the Monkeys out really leads to any long-term educational benifit to the player though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:35:19 No.41965712 Report

Quoted By: >>41965732

I wish they got a third stage evo. I like them but I wish they were better

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:36:28 No.41965732 Report

Quoted By:

>>41965712
Also I wish we got a 4th one. I remember a long time ago someone posted an electric one based off david bowie and I thought that was pretty awesome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:37:10 No.41965745 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963651
I love the gen 5 dex, but these monkeys desperately need some busted signature abilities to make their existence justified. Maybe actually utilize that 'Hear no Evil See no Evil Speak no Evil' gimmick they've got going.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:39:46 No.41965781 Report

Quoted By:

>>41965521
Yes. It was proven a fact a while ago

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:41:14 No.41965804 Report

Quoted By: >>41966081

>>41965700
>It's a terrible tutorial because it is forced on the player
It literally isn’t

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 19:49:21 No.41965907 Report

Quoted By: >>41966081

>>41965700
I like the idea of the player losing their first gym battle, but I'm almost certain Game Freak would never start you off with a loss. They'd find out that 10% of the audience quits right after that or some shit.
Making the monkeys random encounters makes them seem unimportant and a lot of people will skip over them. The way BW do it gives them enough value that the player will try them out just to see, and they're capable of sweeping the first gym to really incentivize type match-ups, whereas your starter is likely to struggle beating one mon on your first playthrough.
In any case I don't see how a special cutscene where you get told to practice your type match ups is less invasive than getting handed a monkey, and it's certainly less effective.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:02:13 No.41966081 Report

Quoted By: >>41966122 >>41966332

>>41965804
Ok, "Forced" is the wrong term, but it's still a hand out that is unsubtlely dropped onto the player and provides no real learning experience.
>>41965907
I feel like the Monkeys are already seen as unimportant to the players and I fee like if the player sees the monkey in the grass it will trigger the memory of the fact that they lost to it or a similar looking one and want to catch it. Since in the players mind Monkey=Strong.
The NPC is just off the top of my head and I wasn't really thinking about a cutscene as much as three sentences tops. It would only be encountered if the player lost since the first gym in this rework isn't a mandatory loss just difficult.
Like I said there are better solutions and I want something that the player needs to be able to on there own. Something they learn by doing themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:05:47 No.41966122 Report

Quoted By:

>>41966081
>but it's still a hand out that is unsubtlely dropped onto the player and provides no real learning experience.
It's optional. I've never used it and can still beat the gym. If they'd introduced it in a post-gen 5 game you'd have to have the monkey to go through.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:08:45 No.41966154 Report

Quoted By:

>>41964871
>it seem like the devs don't trust the players to actually play the game
I mean, have you seen the fandom?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:20:22 No.41966332 Report

Quoted By: >>41966587

>>41966081
As an adult I've come to like difficult games that don't hold my hand. But I've been playing Pokémon since I was 4, and it took a long time for me to get here.
My Yellow had a level 70 Pikachu and everything else in my party was level 20-50. Same thing with my level 70 Blaziken in Sapphire. Etc.
People, especially children, aren't inclined to try new pokémon that they've just caught. It's actually easier to just face mash with your starter and eventually get enough XP to overcome every challenge than to experiment with different strategies.
I don't want them to treat the player like a fucking idiot as in LGPE, but subtlety doesn't work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:23:36 No.41966378 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963938
Rotom was in gen4, bro.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:29:49 No.41966471 Report

Quoted By:

>>41963938
>Unown
>Castform
>Deoxys
>Burmy
>Wormadam
>Shellos
>Gastrodon
>Rotom
>Giratina
>Shaymin
>Arceus
>Meloetta

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:39:34 No.41966587 Report

Quoted By:

>>41966332
This. Putting in a completely optional thing that helps you beat the first gym easier and teaches new players about type matchups and the importance of having a varied party does literally no harm. If you want a bit more of a challenge, you just don't do it.

The monkeys are even in an area that could be missed, so in a way they're a reward for exploring a new area before you're required to go there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:47:59 No.41966682 Report

Quoted By:

>>41964218
I miss when you could say nigga without a hundred people coming out of nowhere shouting N-WORD N-WORD N-WORD

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 21:05:56 No.41966917 Report

Quoted By: >>41967038

>everyone talking about "Eevee monkey"
Counterpoint. These fuckers are the perfect candidate for a convergent evolution. They have already tested the waters with the idea for Mega-Lati@s and Gigantimax Flappletun. Just fucking commit already, and give us a set of pokemon that all evolve into the same thing, with the pre-evolution basically just being a choice of which movepool to go with for it. Its the one reasonable gimmick they haven't done that isn't something completely retarded and an asspull like fusions or something similar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 21:14:01 No.41967038 Report

Quoted By:

>>41966917
>give pansage a water stone
>becomes simipour with fire coverage
>give that simipour a leaf stone
>becomes chimeta, normal type with ability that gives STAB to fire/ grass/ water
SOMEONE GET MASUDA ON THE PHONE

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 21:16:43 No.41967071 Report

Quoted By: >>41967130 >>41967245 >>41967287

Gen 5 has the best games but the worst mons. The elemental monkeys clearly highlight how they struggled to create that many mons for a game

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 21:20:34 No.41967130 Report

Quoted By:

>>41967071
Yes because they're so much worse than Diglett, Mr Mime or Jynx.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 21:27:55 No.41967225 Report

Quoted By: >>41967329 >>41967337

I mean, theye were created as simple tool to teach new players of B/W days about type coverage along with first gym.
"Your starter will get bodied by butler trio, try this unimpresive, simple tool instead. Later you can throw it away or evolve it with stone or something lol"
It was actualy a good idea, except it realy worked just once and could easly be replaced by... dunno, giving players second set of starters from previous gens? But this conflicted with "HURR DURR REGION WITH ALL NEW POKEMON" so ehh...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 21:28:44 No.41967245 Report

Quoted By:

>>41967071
That’s just your shit taste

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 21:32:06 No.41967287 Report

Quoted By:

>>41967071
>Gen 5 has the best games but the worst starting mons*
Fixed. Patrats, Lillipups, and Purrloins for too fucking long. Replaying BW will never not be a pain in the ass for doing this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 21:34:50 No.41967329 Report

Quoted By:

>>41967225
>giving players second set of starters from previous gens?
people complain endlessly about gen 6 giving you KANTOOOOOO starters
it cheapens the value of your starter when you can get a starter from an old game that you already have a connection to

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 21:35:55 No.41967337 Report

Quoted By: >>41968034

>>41967225
Gen 1 had clunkers, I won't deny that, but I still absolutely believe that Gen 5 has the worst dex, especially when like 1/3 of the dex are worse Gen 1 expies

Mons:
1 > 3 > 7 > 6 > 4 > 2 > 8 > 5

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 21:41:05 No.41967397 Report

Quoted By:

>>41964892
It would be a fixed Castform

Or the Eevee from LGBT if you could evolve it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 22:24:41 No.41968034 Report

Quoted By:

>>41967337
>1/3 of the dex are worse Gen 1 expies

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