/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #41983868

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Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 00:49:32 No.41983868 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>41983919 >>41984523 >>41984794 >>41985323 >>41985520 >>41988252 >>41988270

>less SpAtk than Volcarona
>less speed than Volcarona
>less SpDef than Volcarona
>worse typing than Volcarona
>worse design than Volcarona
Why would you powercreep a Pokémon 3 gens before it was made?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 00:51:38 No.41983889 Report

Quoted By: >>41985400 >>41985422 >>41985543 >>41985716

What about compared to Venamoth?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 00:53:34 No.41983919 Report

Quoted By:

>>41983868
snom is far better than frosmoth, i wish it had an evolution where it just got bigger instead

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 01:40:20 No.41984523 Report

Quoted By:

>>41983868

>same species
>identical stats spread because
>ignores mothim and venomoth

......?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 02:00:04 No.41984794 Report

Quoted By: >>41985394

>>41983868
>bug/ice
fucking lol, two of the worst types in the games

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 02:40:32 No.41985323 Report

Quoted By: >>41986019

>>41983868
Frosmoth is much easier to acquire, as you only need to evolve a Snom (a late game Pokemon but one that is very common on the routes it is found on) by leveling it up with high friendship at night. Conversely, Larvesta are much rarer, as they are either found very rarely in the wild (usually near the end of the game) or cannot be obtained outside of breeding. And then you have to raise the Larvesta to Level 59 to evolve it. Larvesta has terrible moves and a mediocre special attack stat before it evolves, so you are stuck with raising what is essentially a shitmon from Level 1 to 59. Volcarona is even found in the Gen 5 games as a one-time encounter, almost giving it legendary Pokemon status.

These two Pokemon are not comparable.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO volcarona.gif, 2MiB, 1000x300

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 02:46:28 No.41985388 Report

Quoted By: >>41988306 >>41988347

Why did they put so much effort into Giga max unique designs and moves if they are never even worth using

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 02:47:01 No.41985394 Report

Quoted By: >>41985402 >>41985427

>>41984794
Is there a worse type combo than bug/ice?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 02:47:33 No.41985400 Report

Quoted By:

>>41983889
Still worse

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 02:47:41 No.41985402 Report

Quoted By:

>>41985394
Bug/grass

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 02:49:35 No.41985422 Report

Quoted By:

>>41983889
Still slower than Venomoth, and with a worse movepool.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 02:50:40 No.41985427 Report

Quoted By: >>41985450

>>41985394

Rock/Ice
Grass/ice

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 02:53:02 No.41985450 Report

Quoted By:

>>41985427
Rock/Ice at least has really good offensive capability.

If something like Weavile got Rock/Ice it wouldn't be nearly as bad as Aurorus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 02:59:18 No.41985520 Report

Quoted By: >>41986019

>>41983868
>less SpDef than Volcarona
except it gets an ability that's literally assault vest minus the restrictions

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 03:01:28 No.41985543 Report

Quoted By: >>41985677 >>41987724

>>41983889
Venomoth gets sleep powder and tinted lens, it's also a poison type so you can run black sludge (which allows you to use leftovers on another pokemon if you're playing an item restricted format)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 03:13:10 No.41985677 Report

Quoted By:

>>41985543
The only format I know of that restricts items is VGC and leftovers are useless in VGC

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 03:17:05 No.41985716 Report

Quoted By: >>41985771

>>41983889
>Venomoth is faster
>Venomoth has sleep powder
>Venomoth is immune to poison
>Venomoth has Tinted Lens
>Venomoth doesn't lose half its health to sneaky pebbles
>Venomoth has a significantly better movepool (including roost)
>Venomoth has hidden power, but doesn't even need it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 03:21:11 No.41985771 Report

Quoted By: >>41985825

>>41985716
>>Venomoth has hidden power, but doesn't even need it
Hidden Power is gone. They removed it alongside many other moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 03:24:59 No.41985825 Report

Quoted By: >>41985846

>>41985771
Venomoth still doesn't need it, whereas Frosmoth would benefit enormously from having anti-steel and fire coverage

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 03:27:01 No.41985846 Report

Quoted By: >>41988693

>>41985825
Technically weather ball in sun counts.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Frosmoth.png, 11KiB, 950x200

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 03:39:10 No.41986019 Report

Quoted By: >>41986327 >>41988529

>>41985323
This, but retards on /vp/ will still compare the two. Volcarona is meant to be rare and a chore to obtain during the game's story. Frosmoth is a run-off-the-mill common Pokemon.
>>41985520
Ice Scales is a x2 boost to Special Defense. Assault Vest is only a 1.5x boost. With Ice Scales, Frosmoth has an effective 585 BST.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 04:03:36 No.41986327 Report

Quoted By: >>41987709 >>41987735

>>41986019
Now stick actual assault vest on it for Blissey-tier special bulk

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 2D376AAC-6E1D-4D5B-BA18-E8275114 (...).png, 81KiB, 254x404

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 05:49:10 No.41987709 Report

Quoted By:

>>41986327
>bulky ice/bug type

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 05:50:40 No.41987724 Report

Quoted By:

>>41985543
>an item restricted format
wat

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 05:51:16 No.41987735 Report

Quoted By: >>41988230

>>41986327
the 3x SpD boost makes it resilient enough that it's not 1HKOed by a Litten's Ember
(most of the time)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:42:59 No.41988230 Report

Quoted By:

>>41987735
The problem is that it can’t ohko most of its counters without a quiver dance, and it’s base speed is still too low to outspend after 1 dance, and it fucking dies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:45:13 No.41988252 Report

Quoted By: >>41988304 >>41988313 >>41988382 >>41988383 >>41988402

>>41983868
>worse design than Volcarona
fuck anyone that says this.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 250px-414Mothim.png, 35KiB, 250x250

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:46:38 No.41988270 Report

Quoted By: >>41988332

>>41983868
*ahem*
make way for best moth, faggots

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:50:02 No.41988304 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988252
Ok eat shit retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:50:14 No.41988306 Report

Quoted By:

>>41985388
Like half of them are worth using over the Dynamax forms, Butterfree's wacky status chaos is probably worth using over the Spattack drop in most situations, the problem is that you can only D/G-max a single Pokemon per match and there are far better options among normal D-max in most cases.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:50:43 No.41988311 Report

Quoted By:

Why did they make this moth so shit? 475 BST? 65 speed? Ice/Bug? What were they thinking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:51:05 No.41988313 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988252
The truth?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:53:57 No.41988332 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988270
based

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:55:34 No.41988347 Report

Quoted By: >>41988415

>>41985388
They designed them primarily as raid boss enemies first, their usability is an afterthought

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:59:18 No.41988382 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988252
Dumb galarvae

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO AC900A85-02D7-45F3-A397-24F05108 (...).jpg, 77KiB, 600x850

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 06:59:26 No.41988383 Report

Quoted By: >>41988402 >>41988754

>>41988252
>252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Frosmoth: 628-744 (182.5 - 216.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
How does it taste to be a loser?
>252 SpA Frosmoth Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 224-264 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO A5657C01-1928-48A7-82FC-C2657440 (...).jpg, 56KiB, 514x443

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:02:10 No.41988402 Report

Quoted By: >>41988754

>>41988383
>>41988252
>252 Atk Frosmoth Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 238-282 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not even the impossible brave bird could pull it off. Sorry anon your moth sucks.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 095Onix.png, 1MiB, 1280x1280

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:03:34 No.41988415 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988347
I knew they were trying to recapture the Gen 1 magic, but this is ridiculous!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:18:16 No.41988529 Report

Quoted By: >>41988592 >>41988636 >>41988679 >>41988822

>>41986019
>Volcarona is meant to be rare and a chore to obtain during the game's story
>can run and nab a static one after gym 5 in BW2
what did he mean by this

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:26:06 No.41988592 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988529
He meant
>252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. +2 252 HP / 252 SpD Frosmoth: 316-376 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:29:54 No.41988636 Report

Quoted By: >>41988655

>>41988529
>Zapdos is meant to be rare and a chore to obtain during the game's story
>can run and nab a static one after gym 5 in FRLG
what did he mean by this

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:32:04 No.41988655 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988636
Zapdos isn’t meant to be a chore to get outside of gen 1 when you were a kid without Internet better than dial up though

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:35:09 No.41988679 Report

Quoted By: >>41988709

>>41988529
It has godawful fucking moves (fucking string shot) and only learns Quiver Dance by level 59.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:36:51 No.41988693 Report

Quoted By: >>41988717

>>41985846
Technically, yes, but Frosmoth can't set up Sunny Day itself and it would effectively turn its x4 weakness into a x6 weakness. It's basically so suboptimal that you would have to be insane to try it.

brb making this a showderp set

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:38:37 No.41988709 Report

Quoted By: >>41988732

>>41988679
None of the moves people use on Volcarona are egg moves so you can just go to the move reminder or a tutor...

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:39:19 No.41988717 Report

Quoted By: >>41988761

>>41988693
I'm not sure if an increased weakness to fire even matters at that point. It'll already die to any fire move, so if anything weakening potential water types or hurricane users would be more beneficial

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:41:03 No.41988732 Report

Quoted By: >>41988770

>>41988709
I'm talking about in-game, the Volcarona you find by the 5th gym is pretty weakened and not close to how the actual Pokemon really is. And the area you find it in is completely optional anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:43:06 No.41988754 Report

Quoted By: >>41988831

>>41988383
>>41988402
>anon specifically says design
>start throwing out calcs instead like an autist
Are you retarded?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:43:40 No.41988761 Report

Quoted By: >>41988779

>>41988717
Actually, I think rain would benefit it way more since Weather Ball can hit its main threats for neutral or supereffective damage, reduces fire damage and Frosmoth gets Hurricane itself. Then again, it doesn't get Rain Dance either and you could probably get better results by sending out something with Swift Swim and water STAB instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:44:26 No.41988770 Report

Quoted By: >>41988805

>>41988732
The signal beam tutor is right there in the town just outside where you get Volcarona, which is all it needs to plow through most of the game anyway.

It's not weak at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:45:19 No.41988779 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988761
Yeah, I think it does benefit from weather support in both cases, though probably not enough to really warrant its inclusion over something else

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:48:00 No.41988805 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988770
It is compared to how Volcarona is supposed to be, and if Signal Beam was enough you could just get a Galvantula too. If you waited and beat the E4, you could get a Volcarona in the level 60s with Quiver Dance. Anyway my point is it isn't just handed to you for free without any caveats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:49:53 No.41988822 Report

Quoted By: >>41988846 >>41988859

>>41988529
Don't be dumb.
It's either a one-time egg Pokemon on an optional route, a special overworld one-time chance to catch on an optional/off beaten path, a postgame catch which doesn't matter at that point anyway, or an endgame 1% find in an area you have to backtrack to. And when you can get it as a Larvesta during the story, it won't even evolve by the end of the game since the level requirement is extremely high.
Mechanically, it's still a rare Pokemon without the use of trading.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:51:02 No.41988831 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988754
Cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:52:38 No.41988846 Report

Quoted By: >>41988855 >>41988856 >>41988921

>>41988822
>special overworld one-time chance to catch on an optional/off beaten path
Which is neither rare, nor a chore to obtain. You don't have to fight any trainers to get it and there's no need to hunt for a random encounter.

Don't be dumb

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:53:41 No.41988855 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988846
what? there are a lot of trainers in that cave before Volcarona

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:54:06 No.41988856 Report

Quoted By: >>41988876

>>41988846
>legendary pokemon aren't rare
noted

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:54:28 No.41988859 Report

Quoted By: >>41988921

>>41988822
>off beaten path
>location is literally right in front of you after you get kicked off the Plasma boat
what did he mean by this

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1575040866746.jpg, 97KiB, 540x727

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:55:50 No.41988870 Report

Quoted By:

mothbros... i like both...

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 07:56:48 No.41988876 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988856
Legendaries are among the easiest Pokémon to get more often than not. They’re also guaranteed 3 perfect IVs. The fact that they’re called legendaries doesn’t really mean anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Dec 2019 08:02:31 No.41988921 Report

Quoted By:

>>41988846
It's still contextually a rare Pokemon since there is only one. If it wasn't a special case Pokemon, then its base stats and movepool wouldn't be so great. But since it's apparently so common, how about we nerf it? Is that what you want?
Also you cannot refute the other points; That's still 3 instances of it being rare vs. 1 instance of it being "rare not rare".
>>41988859
It's still a completely optional path.

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