/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #42106890

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:18:00 No.42106890 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>42106902 >>42106908 >>42106912 >>42106945 >>42107118 >>42107295 >>42107632 >>42107792 >>42107913 >>42107926 >>42111576 >>42112313 >>42112947 >>42113114 >>42113332 >>42114473 >>42120185 >>42121607 >>42121843

>generic stall team #9001
dynamax died for this

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:19:12 No.42106893 Report

Quoted By: >>42106901 >>42106908 >>42111499 >>42115612

Dynamax exists in real metas

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:19:57 No.42106895 Report

Quoted By: >>42109212 >>42112126

>excadrill dracovish stall
lolwut

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:21:37 No.42106901 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106893
Anon, are actually genuinely autistic? It's the only reason I can think of for you to be so completely obsessed with this.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:21:42 No.42106902 Report

Quoted By: >>42106964 >>42107145 >>42109212 >>42124808

>>42106890
>Stall team
>3 offensive mons
I'm pretty sure it's called bulky offense anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:23:00 No.42106908 Report

Quoted By: >>42107249

>>42106890
>>42106893
>shills are still seething
Topkek

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:24:12 No.42106912 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106890
Toxapex and Corsola are the only stallmons there.

Dracovish and Ferrothorn have only ever been used on offense and Excadrill and Tyranitar haven't featured on stall since Gen 6.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:26:36 No.42106930 Report

Quoted By:

>ExcaSand ft. vish
>Stall
ik you're butthurt about not having your autowin buttons but AT LEAST make a fucking effort at knowing what playstyles are, not everything with tox and ferro is stall, that shit looks more like a bulky offense with the only speed control being scarf vish and dril in sand or balance if said speed control is only driller and vish is a choice banded for some ungodly reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:29:38 No.42106945 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106890
So many teams in this meta lack Mold Breaker Exca checks, this is why we need Lando

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:32:08 No.42106964 Report

Quoted By: >>42109212

>>42106902
Not surprised this is seen as hard stall when 1100 shitters see a team with literally any defensive utility at all and piss themselves about "stall"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 08:58:30 No.42107118 Report

Quoted By: >>42107184 >>42113114

>>42106890
>retards pull mental gymnastics to deny stall
Team 3/6 stall ferropex corsola
1 SpDefensive tank
1 hazard settler
And Dracovish

Seethe harder at dynamax retards. Won't make your fanfic trash real or relevant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:02:20 No.42107145 Report

Quoted By: >>42107184 >>42107186 >>42107242 >>42111558 >>42113114 >>42125083

>>42106902
>Stall team has Dugtrio, therefore it's not stall xd

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:03:12 No.42107153 Report

Quoted By:

wow a stall team where a whole 2 mons have reliable recovery (1 if you have magic bounce for strength sap) and their ground resist is corsola what a tough defensive lineup

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:09:49 No.42107184 Report

Quoted By: >>42107190 >>42107268

>>42107118
Ferrothorn isn't stall

>>42107145
Dugtrio is literally stall retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:10:16 No.42107186 Report

Quoted By: >>42107189 >>42107208 >>42113114

>>42107145
>Dugtrio
>Stall
lmao it has some of the worst defenses in the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:10:59 No.42107189 Report

Quoted By: >>42112074 >>42112197

>>42107186
Shuckle has some of the best defenses in the game, it must be stall right durr hurr hurr

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:11:11 No.42107190 Report

Quoted By: >>42107214 >>42113114

>>42107184
I don't you know what stall means redditspacer

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:11:37 No.42107193 Report

Quoted By:

Ive been seeing more and more teams with both ferro and pex

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:14:14 No.42107208 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107186

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:15:15 No.42107214 Report

Quoted By: >>42107220

>>42107190
Ferrothorn is never used on stall, therefore it isn't stall. Dugtrio was predominantly used on stall, therefore it is a stall Pokemon, get it? Pretty simple equation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:15:56 No.42107220 Report

Quoted By: >>42113114

>>42107214
Holy shit you are retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:21:44 No.42107242 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107145
Duggy is a trapper. Stall uses it to get rid of problematic wallbreakers. Balance also uses it to get rid of some revenge killers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:23:29 No.42107249 Report

Quoted By: >>42107274

>>42106908
>People who like dynamax must be shills

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:27:51 No.42107268 Report

Quoted By: >>42107287 >>42107391 >>42113387

>>42107184
>Ferrothorn isn't stall
Imagine being this retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:28:58 No.42107274 Report

Quoted By: >>42121751

>>42107249
90% of the time they are

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:31:06 No.42107287 Report

Quoted By: >>42107295

>>42107268
Show me a high level stall team that uses Ferrothorn

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:32:30 No.42107295 Report

Quoted By: >>42107643 >>42108069 >>42113114

>>42107287
See
>>42106890

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:48:46 No.42107391 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107268
>use epic /vp/-verified ferrothorn stall
>all opponent has to do is repeatedly force switches to ferrothorn until it’s worn down to open a hole
very good gameplan!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 10:26:35 No.42107614 Report

Quoted By: >>42112230

do people seriously use dracovish without rain? whats the reasoning of this action?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 10:31:07 No.42107632 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106890
>not being able to counter a generic stall team
you suck

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 10:33:11 No.42107643 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107295
how do you know it is high level?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 10:33:12 No.42107644 Report

Quoted By: >>42120317

I feel like Im starting to feel the effects of the dex cut hard? Or maybe its just low ladder players never experiments?
I feel like in gen 7 I would see way more teams with at least 1 or 2 unique picks. But so far its just the same 20 or so mons every team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 10:58:03 No.42107792 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106890
If only there were a wider range of options that we could choose from

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 11:15:44 No.42107913 Report

Quoted By: >>42108059

>>42106890

I can't play online because every team looks like this except you can mix and match in a few other like Dragapult and Snow yeti. I've got like a 20% win rate online and while yes I am partially to blame it's mostly because I'm using Pokemon I like that I Ev/IV trained because I like them and individually they are all worth half of what the Pokemon in the OP are worth. They are all so much better than normal Pokemon I can't do anything unless I play absolutely perfectly and never get screwed by luck at the same time.

It feels like each one of these alone is a massive near unstoppable threat unless I counter it exactly with my shittier Pokemon. And even then, EVEN THEN, sometimes I'll just lose to bullshit like Paraflinch Togetic which honestly can just make you lose to luck even if you don't do anything wrong. It's pure bullshit and honestly I wish I didn't even have any desire to play this bullshit.

It really hit me hard when someone killed basically my entire team with a toxapex by just poisoning everyone and recovering. I don't fucking have the ability to 1-2 shot toxapex. Maybe if I was using fucking Excadrill like everyone else I would but I fucking can't using my bros. Claydols STAB earthquake or psychic even though they are super effective don't even take half the fucking things health. Even though using a STAB super effective move is supposed to be useful in this game, it doesn't matter when other people's Pokemon are all stronger, faster, and tankier than mine.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 11:18:12 No.42107926 Report

Quoted By: >>42108052 >>42108159 >>42108242 >>42109977

>>42106890
>Try to look up the definition of stall from Smogon
>Can only find forum posts where they agree Stall is an overarching strategy where you focus on conserving your Pokemon rather than trying to sweep, maybe with one or two offensive Pokemon to eliminate threats to your strategy
>Come to /vp/
>"It's not stall unless all 6 of your Pokemon have regenerator, recover, and you don't have a single move with any base power"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 11:41:17 No.42108052 Report

Quoted By: >>42108242

>>42107926
>Can only find forum posts where they agree Stall is an overarching strategy where you focus on conserving your Pokemon rather than trying to sweep, maybe with one or two offensive Pokemon to eliminate threats to your strategy
Yes, and Ferrothorn is unironically counterproductive to these purposes because it doesn't have long term durability. It's a speed bump Pokémon, not an impenetrable wall, it's designed to slow down the momentum of the opposing team by blanket checking a large amount of Pokémon and setting hazards, but it really struggles to take repeated assaults because its best healing method is Leech Seed. It's sturdy enough for balance and bulky offense, but there is a reason why stall teams have always used Skarmory and now use Corviknight as their steel of choice, and basically almost never bother with Ferrothorn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 11:42:18 No.42108059 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107913
it has always been like this, I feel you anon

Pokémon has never been balanced and, after the dexit, having a metagame with Ferropex and Exca+Tyranitar everywhere, the amount of ideas that work against these shitters is even more limited

geez i don't miss Incineroar and Landorus fucking everywhere, but damn I wish both Excadrill and Toxapex were cut and I would have to adapt my teams to kill the other less exploited stuff

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 11:43:16 No.42108069 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107295
but thats not a stall team half of them are straight attackers

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 11:52:55 No.42108159 Report

Quoted By: >>42108217

>>42107926
>Stall is an overarching strategy where you focus on conserving your Pokemon rather than trying to sweep
Ok, so logically extrapolate from that definition. You’re keeping all of your Pokémon alive and well—why? So you can maintain your counters to your opponent’s Pokémon, preventing them from winning and you from losing. What does your team need to be able to do to fulfill this objective? It needs to switch into everything, for starters, and it needs to stay healthy long enough that you don’t lose your switch-ins before the opponent’s threats are down. So everything needs to be able to heal, else you’ll be worn down in the long run and fail in your singular objective. You can throw on a trapper if they’re allowed, or a revenge killer like Ditto if there are no better ways of stopping the big meta threats, otherwise every slot not dedicated to a healing wall shifts the focus of your team away from perpetually not-losing and towards a win condition that you must actively play towards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 11:59:50 No.42108217 Report

Quoted By: >>42108351 >>42121724

>>42108159
No you idiot, you're preserving your Pokemon because your primary sources of damage are not BP moves but rather residual damage. NOT YOUR ONLY YOUR PRIMARY. Ferrothorn is used because it forces the opponent to switch out due to not taking damage while threatening some damage in return, ultimately though it's not there because of how hard it power whips but because it forces the enemy to eat stealth rocks.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:03:33 No.42108242 Report

Quoted By: >>42108320 >>42108382 >>42113114

>>42107926
this board is just full of retards pretending they know more than other retards.

>>42108052
>because it doesn't have long term durability
neither does dugtrio you retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:13:52 No.42108320 Report

Quoted By:

>>42108242
Based 1300ELO retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:18:58 No.42108351 Report

Quoted By: >>42108450 >>42108482

>>42108217
>Ferrothorn is used because it forces the opponent to switch out
Why should stall teams care about this? They don’t have the offense to stop the threat from just coming back in again, and Ferrothorn doesn’t have the healing to comfortably switch into the mon it just forced out over and over again. Ferrothorn’s a great progress-maker for teams that desire such a thing, but by your own definition stall doesn’t give a shit about spreading damage or forcing switches because self-preservation is its goal and everything else is secondary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:22:59 No.42108382 Report

Quoted By:

>>42108242
>look at this BW Ubers page from a decade ago
Cool. As far as I know ‘true’ stall isn’t even a thing in that tier because the offensive tools you have far outweigh the defensive ones.
>dugtrio
It makes up for not countering anything by removing at least one thing you can’t, which lets the rest of the team stay alive against the remaining 5 mons. Trappers are the exception that proves the rule.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:33:19 No.42108450 Report

Quoted By: >>42108516 >>42112295

>>42108351
>Ferrothorn keeps being forced out by something that can outlast it even though Ferrothorn takes 1/2 from SR and has massive defense and respectable offense to hit switch ins with

So what is this magical Pokemon that somehow I feel the need to use Ferrothorn against that also outlasts Ferrothorn?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:36:52 No.42108482 Report

Quoted By: >>42108626

>>42108351
>but by your own definition stall doesn’t give a shit about spreading damage or forcing switches because self-preservation is its goal and everything else is secondary.

Also don't put words in my mouth I said a stall team is primarily concerned with dealing damage via Toxic, stealth rocks, and other forms of offense not reliant on the user's stats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:41:13 No.42108516 Report

Quoted By: >>42108574

>>42108450
Anything, you don’t have to pull any crazy double switches with rocks up or anything like you do against actual stallmons because hit on switch > switch to ferro check > repeat is all you gotta do to wear ferro down in the long run. Bonus points if you have Knock Off or if you’re going to Xatu so it can’t squeeze out even that little bit of Leftovers/Leech Seed recovery. It just doesn’t work as a stallmon since you can’t lean on it to take hits forever, Ferro’s at its best when it has teammates with actual offense to keep shit out and take advantage of all the damage it spreads.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:46:29 No.42108574 Report

Quoted By: >>42108626

>>42108516
How are you repeatedly switching to your Ferro check without getting worn down by SR or the other Pokemon that's part of this rotation? And like I said Ferro doesn't NEED to take hits "forever" it just needs to take hits long enough to cripple the enemy's offense.

>Xatu
Uh huh

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:56:20 No.42108626 Report

Quoted By: >>42108641

>>42108482
>Stall is an overarching strategy where you focus on conserving your Pokemon rather than trying to sweep
>>42108574
Because Stealth Rock damage definitely outpaces the attacks of whatever you’re switching Ferrothorn into.
>Ferro doesn't NEED to take hits "forever"
Yes it does, it’s stall. The whole point is self-preservation. If Ferro is the only mon that can’t reliably heal it might as well have a giant “kick me” sign on it because it’s the obvious target to focus down.
>he doesn’t know about Xatu
How new are you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:57:52 No.42108641 Report

Quoted By: >>42108713

>>42108626
You are conserving your Pokemon in order for your long term damage sources to outpace the opponent's direct damage sources. Please stop pretending to be retarded it is impossible to win ONLY by staying alive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 13:07:43 No.42108713 Report

Quoted By: >>42108724

>>42108641
If you’re not losing and your opponent is eating a Seismic Toss here and a Toxic there you’re going to win eventually, this idea that you still need TSS for damage on stall is outdated as fuck. Look at last gen, people ran double or even triple Defog on stall because it’s way more important to keep hazards off your side than have them on your opponent’s.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 13:09:30 No.42108724 Report

Quoted By: >>42108750 >>42112103

>>42108713
>Seismic Toss
>Toxic

What are you doing bro these don't keep you alive that's not stall

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 13:12:09 No.42108750 Report

Quoted By: >>42109094

>>42108724
You still punish mistakes when they inevitably happen unless you actually don’t want the game to ever end, don’t be retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 13:21:37 No.42108813 Report

Quoted By: >>42109166 >>42109260

>it's another "/vp/ complains about meta topics they don't fucking understand" thread
please god stop

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 13:58:49 No.42109094 Report

Quoted By:

>>42108750
I know that so why are you arguing with me assuming I don't understand that stall teams use damage that operates independently of stats?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 14:09:23 No.42109166 Report

Quoted By:

>>42108813
Landorus is gone so they have to seethe about something and they picked Ferrothorn. Incidentally they seemed to believe that Landorus was stall too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 14:16:31 No.42109208 Report

Quoted By: >>42109299

Is the stall just as bad in the national dex meta? I'm assuming that there's more shit that you can use to counter stall

If you're playing a fanfic meta, you might as well play the best one

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 14:16:43 No.42109212 Report

Quoted By: >>42109385

>>42106895
>>42106902
>>42106964
Any team with Toxa deserves to be called stall until Recover is nerfed

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 14:23:12 No.42109260 Report

Quoted By:

>>42108813
This, yikes!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 14:28:13 No.42109299 Report

Quoted By: >>42111939

>>42109208
Natdex is shit because they went too hard with the fanfiction. If they went with just keeping every Pokémon and perhaps every move it would have been neat. There was no reason to keep Z moves, especially when you can't even use gems or unreleased berries.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 14:42:42 No.42109385 Report

Quoted By: >>42120501

>>42109212
If you have tbat much trouble with Toxapex why don't you dedicate a slot for something to deal with it ?
>Toxtricity
>Dugtrio
>Guts Conkeldurr
>Rotom
Rotom-Heat can even deal with other tanky threats like Ferrothorn/Corviknight.
>Reuniclus
>Indeedee

If you're not playing on smogon you can even trap it with Gothitelle and set up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 16:00:04 No.42109977 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107926
Yea, you retard. It's an overarching strategy, not a single Pokemon. Having a Toxapex on your team does not make it a stall team when shit like Dracovish is on it too. Yet mouthbreathers like OP claim anything that isn't 6 choice scarfers with 4 attacks is stall.

Why is the vast majority of /vp/ so fucking clueless? It's one thing to not be good at the game but /vp/ is so full of itself despite not even knowing the absolute basics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 17:52:10 No.42111499 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106893
Yeah, it doesn't feel as unbalanced in NatDex AG.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 17:55:36 No.42111558 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107145
>1 frail offensive Pokemon used in a specific way to make stalling easier
vs
>Having only 2 stall Pokemon, a Hazard setter, and 3 bulky attackers

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 17:56:32 No.42111576 Report

Quoted By: >>42112825 >>42114501

>>42106890
Insert le “ferrothorn is not stall” comment here

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:20:49 No.42111939 Report

Quoted By: >>42112077 >>42112551

>>42109299
NatDex meta assumes that GameFreak are competent and TPCi not being greedy.
It’s essentially the Gen 7 meta but with new Pokemon, new moves (although they don’t have Z-affects), and new items.
And thank god that Dynamax is getting banned there too.

Gen 8 is so bad that its meta without the BIG Unga Bunga button is just as terrible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:27:59 No.42112056 Report

Quoted By:

As an intellectual pokémon fan, I want the meta to be diverse. You should be able to build both types of pokémon: physical sweeper and special sweeper, and use both held items: choice band and choice scarf. When will stall mons like Ferrothorn be banned so we can have a high IQ meta again? My Excadrill is suffering

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:29:48 No.42112074 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107189
Of course shuckle is stall.
One of the best.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:29:56 No.42112077 Report

Quoted By:

>>42111939
>It’s essentially the Gen 7 meta but with new Pokemon, new moves (although they don’t have Z-affects), and new items

Which is fucking boring god forbid we get something new

>Muh meta stability

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:32:16 No.42112103 Report

Quoted By: >>42112321

>>42108724
I know you're being facetious but Toxic only really has value if you're stalling. It kills in 5+ turns, slower than just about anything, and makes the target immune to the more immediately useful burn, sleep and paralysis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:34:32 No.42112126 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106895
>not carrying a stall breaker to beat the opposing stall instead of a 1000 turn tie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:36:39 No.42112150 Report

Quoted By:

>hurr ttar isn't a stall mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:40:14 No.42112197 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107189
it is, it's just not good at it because it lacks instant healing

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:42:31 No.42112230 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107614
he can still deal ridiculous damage without rain. Rain just lets him kill shit he normally shouldnt really, like Toxapex

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:46:30 No.42112295 Report

Quoted By:

>>42108450
Corviknight
that was easy

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:47:48 No.42112313 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106890
>taunts once
>the communication with the other console was interrupted

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 18:48:11 No.42112321 Report

Quoted By: >>42113145 >>42113210

>>42112103
Toxic can be used to Anti-Stall, since it forces walls to use up all the recovery pp and last Pokemon situations go from 80 turns to 8

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 19:00:58 No.42112551 Report

Quoted By:

>>42111939
>NatDex meta assumes that GameFreak are competent
Which is why I would expect that Z moves would still be removed. Don't get me wrong, Dynamax is even worse but Z moves are basically proto-Dynamax. I could give Megas a pass because they are actually unique forms, although they are still shit, but Z moves add nothing good to the game. It would have been interesting to see how Pokémon like Kartana and Naganadel behaved without Z moves but fuck that, gotta keep everything because Game Freak bad and the opposite of what they do has to always be good, right? Not to mention that keeping Z moves allowed the absolute retardation of Soulblaze+Soul Kommo-o to exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 19:19:20 No.42112825 Report

Quoted By:

>>42111576
Insert le 1100 elo "Anything with a defensive backbone" is stall comment here. That Dracovish Excadrill stall sure is fearsome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 19:27:14 No.42112947 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106890
Can we just sage these Smogshit threads? Always trash, plus literally who cares.
>Hurr, durr, b-b-but my elo
Good for you, what, want a cookie? Doesn't prove anything but you waste your time. *Golfclap*

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 19:37:44 No.42113114 Report

Quoted By: >>42113375 >>42113710

>>42106890
>>42107118
>>42107145
>>42107186
>>42107190
>>42107220
>>42107295
>>42108242
You're all dumb as fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 19:39:27 No.42113145 Report

Quoted By: >>42115222

>>42112321
In theory but good atallmons are good because they dont lose to toxic such as chansey, pex, gliscor, m-sableye etc (no clue which are in gen 8)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 19:43:20 No.42113210 Report

Quoted By:

>>42112321
Yeah I should've said "it only has value if someone is stalling"
Still though, if you're both badly poisoned, the one with leftovers and a recovery move is going to win

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 19:51:45 No.42113332 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106890
>liking dynamax

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 19:54:17 No.42113375 Report

Quoted By: >>42113429

>>42113114
>STALL IS GOOD BECAUSE ME ABUSE IT TO GET ELO OOGA BOOGA

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 19:54:58 No.42113387 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107268
Ferrothorn has no recovery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 19:58:14 No.42113429 Report

Quoted By:

>>42113375
Not a stallfag but i at least understand what it is

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 20:19:22 No.42113710 Report

Quoted By: >>42122828

>>42113114
Kys stalltranny.
Imagine being this assblasted because someone call out your neutered playstyle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:10:43 No.42114473 Report

Quoted By: >>42114962 >>42115376

>>42106890
>fanfic meta
Just play the official VGC meta

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:12:15 No.42114501 Report

Quoted By:

>>42111576
Nobody EVER suspects the banded ferro.
Literally free wins.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1500354000206.png, 45KiB, 360x150

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:27:44 No.42114702 Report

Quoted By: >>42114851 >>42114967 >>42115354 >>42115383 >>42123670

Did everyone's iq drop going into gen 8?
Why is suddenly any team with a defensive core called a stall team now?
In gen 6 & 7 stall was a very distinct team archetype from normal balance teams.
Pic related is actual stall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:39:07 No.42114851 Report

Quoted By: >>42115409 >>42119587

>>42114702
OP pic is not stall just because he has two Pokemon to check other stall users?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:42:47 No.42114904 Report

Quoted By: >>42115083

Isn't sandstorm negative for a stall team?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:47:15 No.42114962 Report

Quoted By: >>42114984

>>42114473
>Guess who uses protect, the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:48:08 No.42114967 Report

Quoted By:

>>42114702
/vp/ is shit at competitive

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:49:31 No.42114984 Report

Quoted By:

>>42114962
Dynamax goes through Protect

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:57:00 No.42115083 Report

Quoted By: >>42115202

>>42114904
Does Smogon allow HA Dracovish? If so only 3 of those Pokes get hurt by sand. One has regenerator and one has strength sap/recover

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:57:54 No.42115090 Report

Quoted By: >>42115134

So why are people comparing a team archtype with just pokemon? or a simple core if pokemon? i think there is a issue with semantics here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:01:12 No.42115134 Report

Quoted By: >>42115307 >>42121783 >>42121823

>>42115090
Stall is a strategy not a team archetype. You can have several "offensive" Pokemon to remove key threats and still have your overarching game plan be stalling the opponent out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:06:50 No.42115202 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115083
HA fossils are still unreleased so no

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:08:08 No.42115222 Report

Quoted By:

>>42113145
An example of Toxic being used by an offensive Pokémon is Toxic Terrakion which was used to annoy Landorus-T, Slowbro, Hippowdon and so on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:13:23 No.42115307 Report

Quoted By: >>42115359

>>42115134
just as you can have a defensive core that keeps certain threats for your team in check giving later an oportunity for your offensive pokemon to maybe sweep or revenge kill the opponent.

You understand that its not black and white, like as its not just stall or hyper offense. Thats what i think most people are not undertanding, that defensive and offensive pokemon can sinergize and make up other compositions such as balance or bulky offense.

Also not sure why is stall in your words is classified as a "strategy" but not an archtype.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:16:50 No.42115354 Report

Quoted By:

>>42114702
Because gen 8 brought a bunch of cross site normalfags who just want to scream about how gen 8 sold well and any challenge to it (ie fanfic meta) gets ree’d at

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:17:23 No.42115359 Report

Quoted By: >>42115384 >>42115453 >>42115532

>>42115307
I know that, but that's not what is happening here. That's clearly a team that's stall with a couple offense to remove key threats; Excadrill is a spinner that's immune to toxic spikes and threatens Toxapex, Dracovish threatens typical very slow walls. Tyranitar is there to set sand for residual damage and is potentially a SR setter as well, Ferro is Ferro and I'm not entertaining the "it's not stall because it can't recover" garbage that only cropped up this gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:18:27 No.42115376 Report

Quoted By:

>>42114473
The obsessed autismo is back boys

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:19:17 No.42115383 Report

Quoted By: >>42115542 >>42115567 >>42115942 >>42115982 >>42119527

>>42114702
>STALL IS THIS TOTALITARIAN MENTAL GYMNASTIC TECHNICAL DEFINITION ONLY XDXDXDXDDD
Go away dumb shit.
You can't take this into account in the context of the current dexcut.

The dexcut removed some stall like Chansey and Skarmory, making that stall cookiecut team definition you posted, completely unavailable.
The dexcut as well took out multiple anti-stall and stall breaking options, making stall harder to break this gen.
In to of that, Smogon removed Dynamax, a stall breaking mechanic, and a mechanic that gives zero use to stall Pokemon. (I.e. Pex gets 3 max guard + a weak max geyser).

So... in the current context... Of the dexcut..
If a team has significant presence of stall in gen 8.... IT IS MOTHERFUCKING STALL. Get it in your dumb empty head.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:19:20 No.42115384 Report

Quoted By: >>42115427

>>42115359
Are you retarded? A stall team would pick Hippo who has useful immunities, sand, and actual recovery, not something that’s built to punch holes in the opponent’s team or sweep.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:21:02 No.42115409 Report

Quoted By:

>>42114851
>two Pokemon to check other stall users
>Excadrill likely has Sand Rush
>Can't deal with Unaware
The closest thing to stall in gen 8 would start with Pyukumuku+Avalugg, and they can handle OP's team quite well on their own.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:22:33 No.42115427 Report

Quoted By: >>42115441

>>42115384
Wow look you're still doing it.

>It can't be stall because it tries to remove threats

Dugtrio confirmed not stall

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:24:10 No.42115441 Report

Quoted By: >>42115469

>>42115427
No, I’m referring to
>Tyranitar is there to set sand for residual damage and is potentially a SR setter as well
You might’ve had a point last gen but if it’s setting sand Hippo is the obvious choice since Tyranitar doesn’t have Pursuit anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:25:21 No.42115453 Report

Quoted By: >>42115482

>>42115359
>Tyranitar is there to set sand for residual damage and is potentially a SR setter as well

yeah idk if i should even continue talking, this pretty much shows the type of people that are calling this a "stall" team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:27:02 No.42115469 Report

Quoted By: >>42115483

>>42115441
I'm not gonna pretend to know the exact role the Ttar has just spitballing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:28:19 No.42115482 Report

Quoted By: >>42115550 >>42115555 >>42115561

>>42115453
>ttar isn't a stall staple
get a load of this retard

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kevin-garrett-stall.78812/

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:28:37 No.42115483 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115469
Maybe you should spitball something that isn’t fucking retarded then

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:32:00 No.42115532 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115359
you realize youre literally pointing out how a balance team works, having the capacity of putting pressure offensively (as you stated with mons like dracovish and drill) while still having a defensive backbone that sinergizes with a team (ferro+pex), its literally not stall, team composition wise, its comprise with a comprised with offensive and defensive pokemon almost as if it was a BALANCE of both styles. Unless you wanna use your OWN definition then you cant argue its stall, which primarily focuses on defensively wearing down the opponent, barely having any offensive pressure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:32:54 No.42115542 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115383
This logic is retarded.
RU last gen didn't have Chansey/Skarmory/etc and it sure as hell could have a proper stall team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:33:43 No.42115550 Report

Quoted By: >>42115563

>>42115482
>dpp ou

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:34:23 No.42115555 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115482
Tyranitar WAS a stall staple, when Pursuit was still a thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:34:37 No.42115561 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115482
>falsely acusing sentences i never stated on any post
>uses KG's 9 year old dpp meta team to compare with 8th gen
>missed the fact that i greentexted him because he literally point out that the utility of ttar is chipping with sand, not providing it for drill to fit the "stall" narrative

try again buddy

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:34:47 No.42115563 Report

Quoted By: >>42115571 >>42115640

>>42115550
So is that not stall then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:35:06 No.42115567 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115383
Dude go outside

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:35:32 No.42115571 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115563
No because Tyranitar has 4 attacks :^^^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:38:44 No.42115612 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106893
Dynamax exists in real life

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 22:40:32 No.42115640 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115563
i think he said that because comparing a 10 year old meta with 8th gen is fucking retarded.
Ttar was absolutely amazing for stall in dpp, being one of the few things that dealt with latias stupid sub roar sets and shit back in the day, but you cant deny its utility on OP's team is to provide sand for drill, not to mention without pursuit, it is no longer a trapper making it significantly worse for stall teams

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 23:01:04 No.42115942 Report

Quoted By: >>42115982

>>42115383
This.
So many retards still judge stall by gen 7's standards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Dec 2019 23:04:19 No.42115982 Report

Quoted By: >>42116943

>>42115383
>>42115942
You're the sub-1000 retards. Chansey not being in gen 8 doesn't mean any defensive Pokemon whatsoever makes something a stall team.

/vp/ is so embarrassingly bad at Pokemon it's ridiculous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 00:10:57 No.42116863 Report

Quoted By: >>42116899

A generally good rule of thumb to identify if a team is stall in Gen 8 is if they have 5 of any of these mons together:
>Toxapex
>Dugtrio (Diglett too)
>Ferrothorn
>Pyukumuku
>Corviknight
>Galar Corsola
>Quagsire
>Ferrothorn
>Avalugg
>Eldegoss
>Salazzle

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 00:13:33 No.42116899 Report

Quoted By:

>>42116863
Forgot to mention a lot of the Eeveeloutions fit on Stall, Milotic and Jellicent as well

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 00:15:47 No.42116943 Report

Quoted By: >>42120627

>>42115982
It's the "1100 elo fanfic dextranny"
>/vp/ is so embarrassingly bad at Pokemon it's ridiculous.
Fanfic... is not... was never... and will never be... Pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 00:22:54 No.42117058 Report

Quoted By:

thank you game freak for making this game so balanced that no one knows what anything is called anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 01:23:08 No.42117942 Report

Quoted By: >>42117982 >>42119456

If you're running 3 or so passive mons that accomplish nothing except spamming status/hazard control and recovery, then you're running stall
>Ackshuyally its balance you sub 1850 noob
Shut the goddamn fuck up you introverted clinical autist with an anime girl avatar, you're running stall. The whole point of balance is running a form of stall that isn't 100% passive and reliant on breaking the enemy team via sheer boredom from 200+ turn games, instead you do it now in 100+ turn games

Also ban Toxapex, especially once G Darm leaves. Fucker is ridiculously tanky on top of invalidating setup with Haze and Scald, and having the most busted defensive ability in the form of Regenerator. If you seriously defend this mon you're past the point of reasonable discourse

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 01:25:28 No.42117982 Report

Quoted By: >>42118023

>>42117942
>The whole point of balance is running a form of stall
holy cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 01:27:52 No.42118023 Report

Quoted By:

>>42117982
It is. If you're running stopgap mons like Ferrothorn or a defensive Rotom, then you're running Bulky Offense

Balance allows for PP stalling to be a 100% valid win condition

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 01:44:04 No.42118310 Report

Quoted By:

The whole point of running offense is to run a stall that forgoes defense in favour of offenseive presence. Darmanitan, Greninja et al are actually offensive stall Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 02:55:49 No.42119456 Report

Quoted By:

>>42117942
My IQ dropped reading this post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 03:00:06 No.42119527 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115383
>It’s Stall because it doesn’t have classic stall Pokemon
That’s fucking retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 03:04:25 No.42119587 Report

Quoted By:

>>42114851
>4 Pokemon without reliable recovery
>Only 1 rapid spinner
>No Cleric
>No Unaware user
>Likely has multiple choice users
>No rain setter “to beat out other stall” with Dracovish
>Likely Sand Rush instead
It amazes me how dumb people who bitch about “stall” are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 03:44:12 No.42120185 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106890
Even as someone who thinks toxipex should be banned or Dynamax reinstated, this is not a stall team lmfao.

TTar, excadrill, dracovish are all offensive. That said part of the reason why pex should be banned or Dynamax should be added i that bulky offense teams like this one can still lead to matches that are hundreds of turns long because of ferropex. A wall shouldnt be so hard to break the amount of Pokémon that can reliably kill it can be counted on your fingers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 03:53:34 No.42120317 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107644
It'll open up a bit more. Since alot of people's bread and butter were cut, ppl use what they know is good and still in it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 04:05:24 No.42120501 Report

Quoted By: >>42121708

>>42109385
Yeah, that sounds like such a healthy meta

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO file.png, 2MiB, 1920x1080

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 04:14:06 No.42120627 Report

Quoted By:

>>42116943
>Dextranny
?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 05:46:10 No.42121607 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106890
>fanfic meta thread #9001
Why not just play and talk about the official meta (VGC) instead?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 05:55:16 No.42121708 Report

Quoted By:

>>42120501
>The existence of checks and counters = unhealthy meta

Ok

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 05:57:04 No.42121724 Report

Quoted By:

>>42108217
>Stall wins through hazards
Hazards only accelerate their winning condition. Without hazards, they would simply aim to pp stall the opponent. Hazards are only used to limit the times really threatening setup sweepers like Volcarona and fire types can easily switch in and threaten your team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 06:00:32 No.42121751 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107274
>posting percentages like a fucking incel
Source your numbers

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 06:05:05 No.42121783 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115134
>Stalling the opponent out
>With fucking excadrill, tyranitar and dracovish
Are you being facetious?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 06:09:15 No.42121823 Report

Quoted By:

>>42115134
>Stall is a strategy not a team archetype.
So why do you complain about the TEAMS and not the way people use them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 06:12:02 No.42121843 Report

Quoted By: >>42121880 >>42121924

>>42106890
You fuckers wanted a meta without landorus-t, and now you have it. Sure seems fixed if you ask me!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 06:17:00 No.42121880 Report

Quoted By: >>42121944 >>42122713

>>42121843
This meta unironically needs lando.
Counterplay for mold breaker excadrill is non-existent besides corviknight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 06:22:08 No.42121924 Report

Quoted By:

>>42121843
Truth is that low ladder wants easy victories that they can turn their brain off for.
Landorus-T just so happened to force people to think and just so happened to be very “blameable”
>Legendary
>Highest usage (even if its dramatically smaller than other highest usage Pokemon like Gen 2 Snorlax)
>Checks so many Unga Bunga Pokemon
Low Ladder players are looking to blame stall since most people find it tedious fighting it, even if what they complain about isn’t Stall, but balance or bulky offense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 06:24:45 No.42121944 Report

Quoted By:

>>42121880
Yeah it feels like the biggest losses with the cull are sturdy Ground and Ice resists, Exca fucking pounds and even without Darmanitan you see people running Vanilluxe and shit to surprising success.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 07:58:07 No.42122713 Report

Quoted By: >>42122787

>>42121880
Needs Dynamax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 08:09:14 No.42122787 Report

Quoted By:

>>42122713
nah

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 08:15:46 No.42122828 Report

Quoted By:

>>42113710
Again, i don't use stall but you don't even know what stall is

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 08:33:47 No.42122952 Report

Quoted By:

how is that team stall when its half defensive and half offensive mons?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 10:16:48 No.42123521 Report

Quoted By: >>42123570

Butterfree
Hatterene
Runerigus
Perrserker
WIshiwashi
Vikavolt
r8 my doubles trick room team

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 10:26:02 No.42123570 Report

Quoted By:

>>42123521
No Copperajah, no Appletun
4/10

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 454-Toxicroak[1].png, 60KiB, 269x300

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 10:32:31 No.42123598 Report

Quoted By: >>42123721

I've got 99 problems but stall ain't one

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1452031880567.gif, 150KiB, 600x759

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 10:41:31 No.42123670 Report

Quoted By:

>>42114702
I think the team you posted just gave me cancer

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 10:44:15 No.42123683 Report

Quoted By: >>42124305 >>42126729

Listen, you can still have a stall team and still have 1 - 2 slots dedicated to an offensive Pokemon, just like you can have Hyper Offense with a bulky pivot. Dracovish is used a lot like Dugtrio - a Pokemon made to open up a hole in the enemy's offensive core that could otherwise threaten your defensive core.

Also, TTar with AV is Blissey levels of retarded. That motherfucker can eat a focus blast

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 10:47:34 No.42123706 Report

Quoted By:

Since there's no competitive or team building thread I'll ask here.
Can someone help me build a doubles team featuring Lanturn? What kind of role can he serve in a team and who supports him best?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 10:48:53 No.42123721 Report

Quoted By: >>42124292

>>42123598
And just so it doesn't fly over your heads, Toxicroak's Drain Punch always 2HKO's Ferrothorn, it completely walls (and kills if you run EQ) Toxapex, and it can easily set up on more passive Stallmons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 12:26:08 No.42124292 Report

Quoted By: >>42124870

>>42123721
beating ferropex is not breaking stall, good luck with trying to beat quagsire tho in an actual stall team, you might have to be bit hugher than 1050 elo for that however

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 12:28:47 No.42124305 Report

Quoted By:

>>42123683
AV Ttar stall is as horrible as your post

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_2019-12-28_05-27-12.png, 94KiB, 632x329

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 13:27:52 No.42124748 Report

Quoted By:

Kind of want to build around this but I think its hopeless. Indeedee just dont got the bulk for it despite them obviously trying to make her a "cleric" type mon like clefable

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 13:33:36 No.42124808 Report

Quoted By:

>>42106902
Wouldn't it be balance? Bulky Offense is fat mons that can do damage, not glasscanons like Dragapult and Dracovish

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 13:40:08 No.42124870 Report

Quoted By:

>>42124292
Funnily enough ferrothorn is good against Quagsire

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 14:06:14 No.42125083 Report

Quoted By:

>>42107145
I love this because stall babies will hold their ground and refuse to even think about what it means, they'll just say "Dugtrio is stall though".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Dec 2019 16:35:29 No.42126729 Report

Quoted By:

>>42123683
Ops pix is Judy a more defensively-minded balance, not stall
Ferrothorn is not a stall pokemon
It's a bit early to tell, but I'm also unsure about how successful strength sap would be as a reality move and whether corsola would be used on stall with it

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