/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #43114859

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Ubers viability rankings

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 19:50:56 No.43114859 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>43115181 >>43115224 >>43115227 >>43115554 >>43117254 >>43119395 >>43123255 >>43124296 >>43124368 >>43125215 >>43130525 >>43131741 >>43131844

post home one is up. s and a rank is individually ordered

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ubers-viability-rankings-v2.3661412/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 19:55:26 No.43114895 Report

Quoted By:

Based ditto

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 20:31:08 No.43115181 Report

Quoted By: >>43115200 >>43115211 >>43115303 >>43124441

>>43114859
Why are Lunala and Zekrom so good here?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 20:33:42 No.43115200 Report

Quoted By:

>>43115181
Lunala is Lugia but not passive as shit and can spread burns, also can actually do great offensively
All Zekrom needed was DD to become a threat

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 20:35:28 No.43115211 Report

Quoted By: >>43119600

>>43115181
No Yveltal and Groudon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 20:37:40 No.43115224 Report

Quoted By: >>43116047

>>43114859
>Snorlax
Is his G-Max busted or something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 20:37:59 No.43115227 Report

Quoted By:

>>43114859
polteageist, wow

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 20:46:39 No.43115303 Report

Quoted By: >>43124437

>>43115181
lunala loves de lack of yveltal and basically has a multiscale clone as its ability

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 21:13:37 No.43115534 Report

Quoted By: >>43117287

NOOOOOOOO IT WAS MEWTWO'S TIME TO SHINE MY MAX AIRSTREAMERINO MY PSYCHIC TERRAINERINO

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 21:14:39 No.43115545 Report

Quoted By: >>43115566 >>43115623 >>43130789

>Melmetal is DOGSHIT

Why the FUCK did they ban it then

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 21:15:43 No.43115554 Report

Quoted By: >>43125194

>>43114859
How could zamazenta be so cucked?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 21:16:54 No.43115566 Report

Quoted By: >>43116074 >>43118103 >>43130856

>>43115545
It's too good for OU. Ubers is a banlist before a tier, a bunch of pokemon that aren't viable when faced with other ubers but totally fucking destroy OU are there, too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 21:22:55 No.43115623 Report

Quoted By:

>>43115545
Iron Fist needs to do +50% instead of 20%. Then you could run band or AV sets to your heart's desire

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 22:14:56 No.43116047 Report

Quoted By:

>>43115224
It has Belly Drum and a GMax move that can replenish pinch berries.
If you can pull it off, Snorlax is insane.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 22:17:53 No.43116074 Report

Quoted By: >>43116096 >>43116543 >>43116592 >>43116747 >>43116822 >>43130666

>>43115566
Wasn't Melmetal OU in LGPE?
How is he Ubers in Gen 8, but OU in Leg Pee?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 22:20:53 No.43116096 Report

Quoted By:

>>43116074
No one gives enough of a shit to balance LGPE because it's inherently flawed to the core and extremely unpopular.
The only Uber is Mewtwo and Melmetal has like 90% usage in LGPE.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 23:14:59 No.43116543 Report

Quoted By:

>>43116074
Melmetal in LGPE has a role similar to Snorlax in GSC. SS doesn't need a Snorlax. Melmetal itself also got buffed technically in the transition, since it got an useful ability and became capable to use items.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 23:23:45 No.43116592 Report

Quoted By:

>>43116074
It didn't have Iron Fist and Body Press in LGPE.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 23:47:38 No.43116747 Report

Quoted By:

>>43116074
>How is he Ubers in Gen 8

Gen VIII OU is short on special attackers, and Melmetal is powerful and physically bulky enough that it can run AV.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Mar 2020 23:58:53 No.43116822 Report

Quoted By:

>>43116074
You can't give it Iron First or Choice Band in LGPE, plus LGPE has no options anyways so why ban one of the few good Steels when you can just accept Mew and Melmetal will be on every team and work from there

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 01:01:37 No.43117254 Report

Quoted By:

>>43114859
Is Corviknight the new Smogonbird?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 01:05:51 No.43117287 Report

Quoted By:

>>43115534
>A rank

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 03:12:42 No.43118103 Report

Quoted By: >>43118201 >>43122706 >>43122747 >>43128725

>>43115566
Then why does AG exist?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 03:30:22 No.43118201 Report

Quoted By: >>43118237

>>43118103
Why does it matter

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 03:38:12 No.43118237 Report

Quoted By: >>43118239 >>43118282

>>43118201
AG was made because Mega Fug was too OP.
If Ubers being a playable tier wasn't a factor, they wouldn't have made a new tier just to ban a massive threat from Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 03:39:31 No.43118239 Report

Quoted By:

>>43118237
No one is saying that it isn’t a tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 03:50:30 No.43118282 Report

Quoted By: >>43119267

>>43118237
Lots of stuff is banned from Ubers, actually.
It has evasion, sleep, species, OHKO, and endless battle clause along with baton pass being 100% banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 09:14:07 No.43119267 Report

Quoted By: >>43119480

>>43118282
Exactly.
Ubers started as a banlist, but as more and more mons ended up in Ubers, smogon started trying to make Ubers reasonably playable.
They even stated at the time of creating AG:
>We consider it desirable to have, for each Pokemon, at least one metagame where it is reasonable to use that Pokemon.
There's currently no metagame where it's reasonable to use Melmetal, Zamazenta, or Solgaleo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 10:14:18 No.43119366 Report

Quoted By: >>43119457 >>43119791 >>43120410

> Zacian Crowned now being A+ rank
Huh, never expected the day where Zacian got dethroned.

> Umbreon being ranked
HUH?!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 10:38:42 No.43119395 Report

Quoted By: >>43119457

>>43114859
Why is Reshiram so high all of sudden? Wasn't he a worse Kyu-W?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 11:09:20 No.43119457 Report

Quoted By:

>>43119395
Reshiram fries like half the meta with STAB alone and has considerable bulk
>>43119366
>Umbreon
no chansey

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 11:16:39 No.43119480 Report

Quoted By:

>>43119267
There's also no metagame where it's reasonable to play Ledian. Being desirable doesn't mean it's doable

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 12:11:39 No.43119600 Report

Quoted By:

>>43115211
Didn't even realize those two have been banished to the AG realm before you mentioned it. When did this happen?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 13:09:49 No.43119791 Report

Quoted By: >>43122069

>>43119366
>Huh, never expected the day where Zacian got dethroned.
It's still really good but it doesn't Dynamax and now we have box legends that do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 15:23:16 No.43120377 Report

Quoted By:

I haven't played ubers since Home, but I was constantly playing in gen 7. I have to say it is very depressing to have lost all my bros like Yveltal, mega metagross (had a team built around scarf kyogre and eject button zygarde that used metagross because it is the only steel type bulky enough to take and boosted xerneas AND punish yveltal and kyogre with its coverage), and of course p-don. If they bring back all the past legendaries I would play again, but I miss megas for ubers a lot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 15:28:45 No.43120410 Report

Quoted By: >>43122069

>>43119366
Zacian-C was A+ rank very early on, and that was mostly due to the entire tier preparing for it and the fact that it can’t Dynamax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 20:14:34 No.43122069 Report

Quoted By:

>>43119791
>>43120410
Aren't they planning to ban Dynamax for box legends?
That'll probably get Zacian-C back up to the top.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 20:16:15 No.43122081 Report

Quoted By: >>43122149 >>43122151 >>43122300

>umbreon
This thing isn't even ranked in OU is it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 20:24:59 No.43122149 Report

Quoted By:

>>43122081
No, but it’s the best defensive checks to the common Psychic Special Attackers and is one of the few Special Walls.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 20:25:04 No.43122151 Report

Quoted By: >>43122292

>>43122081
I mean Qwilfish, Parasect, and Jumpluff have been viable in Ubers before

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 20:47:30 No.43122292 Report

Quoted By: >>43122313 >>43122496

>>43122151
>Qwilfish was viable in Ubers
What's the story behind that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 20:49:07 No.43122300 Report

Quoted By:

>>43122081
OU doesn't have Mewtwo, Lunala, White Kyurem, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 20:50:25 No.43122313 Report

Quoted By:

>>43122292
Swift Swim, old 500 BP Explosion, and permarain

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 21:15:07 No.43122496 Report

Quoted By:

>>43122292
It was one of two fully evolved Pokemon with Toxic Spikes to also have Swift Swim in gen 4, and it's a fuckload faster than Omastar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 21:40:54 No.43122706 Report

Quoted By: >>43123152

>>43118103
Because even though Ubers was always meant to be a banlist, it's popular enough as a tier on its own, and megafug destroyed it to bits.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 21:45:41 No.43122747 Report

Quoted By:

>>43118103
AG isn't really a banlist. It's basically a true cart format.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 22:40:57 No.43123152 Report

Quoted By:

>>43122706
Exactly. It started as a banlist and eventually became a tier in its own right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Mar 2020 22:56:54 No.43123255 Report

Quoted By: >>43124413

>>43114859
Based Mewtwo on the way to reclaiming its rightful throne! Now people just need to start realizing that Eternatus is shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 01:39:25 No.43124296 Report

Quoted By: >>43124365 >>43124429

>>43114859
>Shuckle is viable
Huh?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 01:50:10 No.43124365 Report

Quoted By:

>>43124296
It's a lead that sets webs and rocks

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 01:50:47 No.43124368 Report

Quoted By: >>43125194

>>43114859
>Zacian-C A+
>Zamazenta-C C
it's not fair shield bros!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 01:58:20 No.43124413 Report

Quoted By: >>43129081

>>43123255
Cope. Even with NP and dynamax Mewtwo is still weaker than Marshadow kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 02:00:49 No.43124429 Report

Quoted By:

>>43124296
Because how Uber is Shuckle's passivity isn't as much of a hinderance as a lead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 02:02:52 No.43124437 Report

Quoted By:

>>43115303
Akshually Shadow Shield is better.

>Moongeist Beam, Sunsteel Strike, and the Mold Breaker, Teravolt, and Turboblaze Abilities cannot ignore this Ability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 02:03:22 No.43124441 Report

Quoted By: >>43125134 >>43131961

>>43115181
zekrom got dragon dance
lunaala is bootleg lugia kinda like starmie used to be bootleg greninja

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1574554819031.png, 369KiB, 800x666

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 02:08:02 No.43124458 Report

Quoted By: >>43125023 >>43125047 >>43125205

>better than torkoal
we did it GAD bros

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 03:51:32 No.43125023 Report

Quoted By:

>>43124458
Wow. This box legendary is better than a turtle that was Untiered last gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 03:58:44 No.43125047 Report

Quoted By:

>>43124458
>all pokemon below this point are sorted alphabetically

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 04:16:40 No.43125134 Report

Quoted By: >>43125231

>>43124441
Lunala's a superior Lugia you mean. It was highly ranked last gen too. Lunala has the benefit of Ghost STAB which is really good in Ubers since it's only resisted by Yveltal, which isn't here right now. Hence why both it and Marshadow are ranked so high.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 04:29:56 No.43125194 Report

Quoted By: >>43125203 >>43125237 >>43125670

>>43115554
>>43124368
Why is Zamazenta's entire life JUST? Seriously, someone explain it to me. What does the dog need, in order to not be such a disappointment to its owners? More moves? A change in stats? What is it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 04:32:39 No.43125203 Report

Quoted By: >>43128068

>>43125194
Maybe give him Body Press and buff Dauntless Shield so that it boosts SpD as well as Def.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 04:32:40 No.43125205 Report

Quoted By: >>43125224

>>43124458
Why's Torkoal so high anyway? What's a good sun abuser in Ubers? Reshiram?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 04:34:09 No.43125215 Report

Quoted By: >>43125246 >>43125342

>>43114859
>Umbreon
>Quagsire

why the fuck are they ranked so high in Ubers? what is going on in gen 8

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 04:35:02 No.43125224 Report

Quoted By:

>>43125205
Torkoal is the only sun setter in SwSh other than Ninetales.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 04:36:12 No.43125231 Report

Quoted By: >>43127826

>>43125134
>Lunala's a superior Lugia you mean.

This comparison is retarded, they have different niches.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 04:37:38 No.43125237 Report

Quoted By: >>43128068

>>43125194
Zamazenta was cucked by GF itself out of a Steel/Fire typing. It would have been far better as a defensive Pokemon with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 04:39:46 No.43125246 Report

Quoted By:

>>43125215
Umbreon is a bulky dark type and resists Ghost and can eat Lunala focus blasts.
Quagsire is unaware and can massively threaten Eternatus, Zacian, and Zekrom with Earthquake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 04:58:33 No.43125342 Report

Quoted By:

>>43125215
Quagsire has always had a niche in Ubers. Unaware is one hell of an ability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 06:23:57 No.43125670 Report

Quoted By: >>43125737 >>43128068

>>43125194
>Zacian stats redistributed so it's a mixed attacker rather than ooga booga max attack
>ability now boosts attack and special attack
>Zamazenta given some fucking form of recovery, Body Press, and Dauntless Shield now boosts Defense and Special Defense
box legend disparity is retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 06:45:52 No.43125737 Report

Quoted By: >>43125914 >>43125970 >>43126806 >>43126811 >>43127837

>>43125670
>box legend disparity is retarded
>Xerneas, Yveltal
>exact same stats and distribution
>different typing

It has nothing to do with stats and everything to do with typing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 08:05:23 No.43125914 Report

Quoted By:

>>43125737
Then give Zamazenta a better defensive typing and Zacian a better offensive typing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 08:31:05 No.43125970 Report

Quoted By:

>>43125737
>he still thinks that there is a large disparity between Xerneas and Yveltal in 2020

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 14:05:46 No.43126806 Report

Quoted By: >>43126830 >>43126852 >>43127837

>>43125737
Yveltal is actually better than Xerneas now.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ag-viability-rankings.3658581/
The Kalos trio is probably the most balanced (between each other) trio

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 14:06:50 No.43126811 Report

Quoted By:

>>43125737
>implying dark/flying isn't god-tier
i shiggy diggy

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 14:10:35 No.43126830 Report

Quoted By:

>>43126806
Don't like using NatDex as proof of anything but fwiw Yveltal was a little better in USM Ubers too

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 14:14:43 No.43126852 Report

Quoted By:

>>43126806
yveltal has been better than xern for a long time now, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 16:40:20 No.43127826 Report

Quoted By:

>>43125231
I only compared the two because the idiot I replied to did it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 16:41:54 No.43127837 Report

Quoted By: >>43128028 >>43128439 >>43130338

>>43125737
>>43126806
Yveltal is better than Xerneas in Ubers because Dark/Flying is a better defensive typing than Fairy in Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 17:09:53 No.43128028 Report

Quoted By:

>>43127837
There's also the fact that Xerneas is always overpreped for while most teams have very flimsy dark checks

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 17:16:15 No.43128068 Report

Quoted By: >>43128949

>>43125203
>>43125237
>>43125670
So the general consensus seems to be...
>give Zamazenta Body Press
>buff Dauntless Shield (and in turn Intrepid Sword) to increase both Def/Atk by one stage
And also possibly:
>make Zamazenta's typing something that's actually defensive
>give Zamazenta a recovery move
Is that right? It is intriguing. Thank you for your input, everyone!
Now, not seriously asking this time, but why can't Zamazenta learn Body Press. The move almost seems like it was made with them in mind, what with it being a strong, physical Fighting move that calculates damage with the user's Defence over Attack. Weirdly enough, Zamazenta's barred from quite a few tackling moves, despite their signature being a super-powered ram straight through the opponent. Can even learn Wild Charge... for some reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 18:15:32 No.43128439 Report

Quoted By: >>43130320

>>43127837
I thought it was because it checked Necrozma-DM and Groudon-Primal, while Xerneas got checked by them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 18:56:33 No.43128725 Report

Quoted By:

>>43118103
MegaRayquaza

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 19:29:47 No.43128949 Report

Quoted By: >>43128969

>>43128068
I would also make Behemoth Bash work like Body Press. This is the first time they made both box legends signature moves the exact same thing. They really stopped giving a shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 19:34:17 No.43128969 Report

Quoted By: >>43129028 >>43129049

>>43128949
In-lore, Zacian and Zamazenta both saved Galar from Dynamaxing Pokémon, so it makes sense that their signatures moves share that effect. Same with Eternatus' Dynamax Cannon as it's the source of Dynamax in-universe. Plus Game Freak wanting players to have offensive anti-Dynamax weapons. Zamazenta should just learn Body Press outright. King's Shield as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 19:45:07 No.43129028 Report

Quoted By:

>>43128969
Both of them being good against Dynamax is one thing, but having one legend being so much better at utilizing it is another.
They could've given Zamazenta something like a version of protect that protects it and its ally from max moves, or something like that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 19:47:11 No.43129049 Report

Quoted By: >>43129200

>>43128969
No one is saying that Behemot Bash should not have the anti Dynamax effect. It should just work off the Defense stat instead of the Attack stat. It makes more sense for a shield bash used by the shield Pokémon that has an ability that automatically raises defense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 19:50:48 No.43129081 Report

Quoted By:

>>43124413
Idiot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 20:07:57 No.43129200 Report

Quoted By: >>43130276

>>43129049
Also Water Bubble doubles Water type damage, but isn't mentioned in the description. They just need to patch Behemoth Bash to also use Defense stat to calculate damage. Just a stronger, Body Press clone with a bonus effect

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 22:49:14 No.43130276 Report

Quoted By: >>43130487

>>43129200
I just realized that Zamazenta's defense is lower than Zacian's attack, so even if Behemoth Bash used defense to calc damage, it would still be weaker than Zacian's Behemoth Blade.
Being Zamazenta is suffering.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 22:56:19 No.43130320 Report

Quoted By:

>>43128439
Ubers has a disproportionate number of Psychic types and Yveltal isn't Fighting weak, so traditional dark type counter measures don't work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 22:59:52 No.43130338 Report

Quoted By: >>43130391 >>43130447 >>43130630

>>43127837
>Dark/Flying is a better defensive typing than Fairy in Ubers.
Xerneas has never been a defensive Pokemon, ever. It's always been an all-out offensive sweeper and there's no reason to use it for any other role.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 23:08:20 No.43130391 Report

Quoted By: >>43130453

>>43130338
Defensive typing still matters for Xerneas and most offensive Pokemon.
It could determine if Xerneas faints while setting up, can force something out, will get revenge killed, ect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 23:16:23 No.43130447 Report

Quoted By:

>>43130338
I'm saying that because having a good defensive typing goes a long way in Ubers, when most viable mons can shit out tons of damage. In general, Ubers viability puts greater emphasis on role compression than UNGA BUNGA damage. Hence why all the S rank mons have multiple uses other than big dick damage. And having a good defensive typing with useful moves like taunt, foul play, etc. can go a long way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 23:17:15 No.43130453 Report

Quoted By: >>43130535

>>43130391
>Defensive typing still matters for Xerneas and most offensive Pokemon.

Xerneas isn't touched by Mega Gegar at +2, meaning there's very little counterplay after setup. The only threats are physical steels that don't die to Focus Blast or specially defensive Primal Groudon.

Xerneas isn't as good in natdex because the meta introduced yet another overwhelming Steel type, and Ditto is run frequently enough for it that Geomancy is a liability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 23:21:06 No.43130487 Report

Quoted By:

>>43130276
>+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 762-896 (237.3 - 279.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>+1 252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Behemoth Bash (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 740-872 (230.5 - 271.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Fuck, even Jolly does more damage. They should've made Zacian a mixed attacker

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 23:25:28 No.43130525 Report

Quoted By:

>>43114859
>umbreon is higher than shield doggo

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 23:26:30 No.43130535 Report

Quoted By:

>>43130453
>Xerneas isn't touched by Mega Gegar at +2
But it is a +0, which means Xerneas can easily be picked off by priority or a scarfer with 106 Spe (if using the standard EV spread in Gen 7)
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 318-374 (80.9 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Hell, Xerneas gives up a lot of Speed just to add some Physical Bulk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 23:37:09 No.43130630 Report

Quoted By: >>43130771

>>43130338
between the more defense oriented setup version with rest and the purely supportive sets with defog/aromatherapy, that's just blatantly untrue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 23:41:10 No.43130666 Report

Quoted By:

>>43116074
Choice Band

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 23:56:50 No.43130771 Report

Quoted By: >>43130891

>>43130630
>defense oriented

+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 348-409 (88.5 - 104%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Mono Fairy is an excellent offensive/defensive type, Xerneas flaw is that Fairy Aura can be used against it, effectively giving it three weaknesses.
Yveltal doesn't have this problem since it resists Dark.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Mar 2020 23:59:13 No.43130789 Report

Quoted By:

>>43115545
It's also going to be tested sometime in May.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO melmetal_buffed.png, 24KiB, 894x181

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 00:09:16 No.43130856 Report

Quoted By: >>43130949 >>43131719 >>43131832 >>43133639

>>43115566
We did theorymoning and tests for Melmetal in Gen VII and concluded he'd be a UU or UUBL Pokemon. I don't know how the UU council would react when Mega Altaria is the top Pokemon of that meta.

It's definitely not too good for OU, but it's perfectly designed to be a top Pokemon, even if it falls short in practice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 00:13:04 No.43130891 Report

Quoted By:

>>43130771
I get what you're saying, but Zacian would just behemoth blade it into the next dimension anyways.
The only other fairies it has to worry about in Ubers is Arceus Fairy and Magearna (which beats Xerneas anyways) and the rare Lele.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 00:20:12 No.43130949 Report

Quoted By: >>43133639

>>43130856
Gen 8 has extreme reverse power creep. Melmetal might be too much for OU, but it's like average in NatDex for the same reason Gen VII theorymon didn't rate it highly. When you have a significantly more powerful pool of threats available, Melmetal performs worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:07:21 No.43131719 Report

Quoted By: >>43131737 >>43131849

>>43130856
>We did theorymoning
So I assume you mean /vp/, and in which case, it would likely be Ubers knowing /vp/‘s track record

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:10:03 No.43131737 Report

Quoted By: >>43131807 >>43131849 >>43132124 >>43135803

>>43131719
Remember when /vp/ said Slaking would be RU with Thick Fat or Scrappy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:10:46 No.43131741 Report

Quoted By: >>43131816

>>43114859
why tf is vish so high

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:19:29 No.43131807 Report

Quoted By: >>43131836 >>43137460

>>43131737
What?
I know /vp/ is full of shitters, but what?
How bad could you possibly be if you think anything is holding Slaking back other than its ability?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:20:38 No.43131816 Report

Quoted By:

>>43131741
Because toad is so low.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:22:52 No.43131832 Report

Quoted By:

>>43130856
How the fuck would you retards even think it would drop to RU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:23:30 No.43131836 Report

Quoted By: >>43132611

>>43131807
It was from a month or so ago IIRC. I wish I had the cap of it, but it was some chucklefuck saying Slaking is too slow and frail on the special side to work, and that mono Normal was easily walled.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:25:28 No.43131844 Report

Quoted By:

>>43114859
>no togekiss
so this is just bs

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:26:49 No.43131849 Report

Quoted By: >>43132037 >>43135803

>>43131719
>>43131737
>Yveltal will be OU guys!
>Lunala will be OU guys!
>Zygarde-C will be mediocre!

>M-Sableye is totally useless, it might do ok in RU
>M-Metagross is underwhelming and mediocre, it’s one of the weaker ones out now (remember the anons who went on a crusade calling this thing a shitmon in early ORAS?)

And then the constant overrating of stuff like Xurkitree and Cursola because “hurr big stat number better” like we haven’t been over this same song and dance since Gen 4/5 with Rampardos and Haxorus. I’ll never forget all those retards saying Xurkitree would be instabanned and Celesteela would be UU at best because it didn’t have any big retard stats like the others.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:45:24 No.43131961 Report

Quoted By: >>43131970

>>43124441
>lunaala is bootleg lugia
lol
Thinking Lugia is good is the easiest way to show everyone that you don't actually play Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:46:32 No.43131970 Report

Quoted By: >>43132081

>>43131961
I've never played Ubers, I assume it's too passive?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 02:57:21 No.43132037 Report

Quoted By: >>43133658 >>43136801

>>43131849
>Cursola
Everyone have been saying it was garbage since day 1. Everyone will out right call it out bad because of it poor physical defense, making it weakness to Dark Type very high.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 03:04:19 No.43132081 Report

Quoted By:

>>43131970
It's too passive while having really weak utility at the same time. All it does is Toxic and phaze and so many threats in Ubers either don't give a shit or easily take advantage of that. Zygarde-C can do everything Lugia does and is nowhere near as passive and useless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 03:09:53 No.43132124 Report

Quoted By:

>>43131737
The entire thread really did just showcase how little /vp/ knows about playing Pokémon competitively. It’s amazing how much they whine about shit Smogon does when they probably don’t even play Showdown

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1573267235025.png, 597KiB, 680x641

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 04:22:52 No.43132611 Report

Quoted By: >>43135543

>>43131836
>100 speed is slow
>150 HP and 65 special defense is frail
No way. Nobody can be THAT pants-shittingly retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 09:38:07 No.43133639 Report

Quoted By: >>43138182

>>43130856
>>43130949
Gen 7 is not Natdex. In gen 7 it probably wouldn't be banned but it would still be comfortably OU, it's basically a more splashable Mega Mawile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 09:43:32 No.43133658 Report

Quoted By:

>>43132037
Maybe not Cursola, but a lot of people (to be fair not just on /vp/) massively oversold Corsola-Galar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 16:19:21 No.43135543 Report

Quoted By: >>43136641

>>43132611
Remember where you are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 16:50:12 No.43135803 Report

Quoted By:

>>43131737
>>43131849
In all honestly, Melmetal would have definitely been top tier OU in Gen 7.
Megagross in NatDex hurts Melmetal a lot since it pretty much outclasses Melmetal in nearly every way, and Heavy-Duty Boots means Fire types besides Heatran are much more viable, especially Rotom-H, Moltres, and Volcarona, who easily check Melmetal.

But even with those 2 roadblocks, Melmetal is still B rank in NatDex, and Gen 7 didn’t have those 2 in OU, on top of DIB absolutely destroys the common fairy types in Gen 7.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 18:38:50 No.43136641 Report

Quoted By:

>>43135543
I know everyone here is a shitter, but even as a kid who didn't know shit about competitive I knew Slaking would be god tier without Truant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 18:58:35 No.43136801 Report

Quoted By: >>43136931

>>43132037
You definitely weren’t in the /vp/ threads about Cursola when we first got its stats. It got massively overrated, and this was before Smogon found out about G-Corsola with eviolite

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1575931180803.png, 152KiB, 309x217

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 19:13:53 No.43136931 Report

Quoted By:

>>43136801
I had a feeling Cursola wasn't gonna do so hot the moment I saw GF piss away its defense stat.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO vp competitive advice.jpg, 546KiB, 1066x1264

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 20:18:51 No.43137460 Report

Quoted By: >>43137596

>>43131807
pic related

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 20:33:29 No.43137596 Report

Quoted By: >>43137636 >>43137705 >>43138111

>>43137460
My head fucking hurts. Do people just not comprehend how chunky something with 150/100/65 defenses is? Especially considering the thing has Slack Off as reliable recovery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 20:37:11 No.43137636 Report

Quoted By: >>43137705

>>43137596
That, and it can use bulk up, substitute, Amnesia, is immune to Ghost type attacks naturally, and if it got Thick Fat, it takes reduced damage from Ice and Fire attacks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 20:44:58 No.43137705 Report

Quoted By:

>>43137596
>>43137636
Oh, and even though a moment like this would rarely happen

+5 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slaking in Heavy Rain: 424-501 (84.1 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
3 Amnesias with Max Spec Bulk Slaking can survive 5 Calm Mind Modest Water Spout from Primal Kyogre

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 21:34:47 No.43138111 Report

Quoted By: >>43138159

>>43137596
/vp/ brainlets see a double digits defensive stats and think it means the mon gets OHKOd by any special move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 21:41:16 No.43138159 Report

Quoted By: >>43138169 >>43139106

>>43138111
More like they don't process how HP calculated because it's not on a simple scale like Def and SpD

Try to explain to a moron how Behemoth Blade OHKO's Xerneas but is only a 2HKO vs Dynamax Xerneas despite double damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 21:42:34 No.43138169 Report

Quoted By:

>>43138159
I think I'm a moron because I don't understand.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 21:44:45 No.43138182 Report

Quoted By: >>43138197 >>43138275 >>43138769

>>43133639
>but it would still be comfortably OU

It needs to fill a niche to hang in OU and the only niche that fits is trick room sweeper. TR isn't viable in singles OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 21:46:46 No.43138197 Report

Quoted By: >>43138269

>>43138182
trick room was viable in gen 7

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 21:54:21 No.43138269 Report

Quoted By: >>43138829

>>43138197
The usage stats suggest otherwise

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 21:55:26 No.43138275 Report

Quoted By:

>>43138182
>the only niche that fits is trick room sweeper.
No, it's not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 23:07:35 No.43138769 Report

Quoted By:

>>43138182
>the only niche that fits is trick room sweeper
No. Melmetal doesn't require trick room to function.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 23:12:28 No.43138801 Report

Quoted By: >>43138832 >>43138856

What makes Ditto such a good revenge killer this gen, as compared to previous ones?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 23:17:37 No.43138829 Report

Quoted By:

>>43138269
t. didn't play gen 7

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 23:17:42 No.43138832 Report

Quoted By:

>>43138801
So many easy sweepers thanks to Dynamax and Zacian-C

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 23:21:27 No.43138856 Report

Quoted By: >>43139126

>>43138801
Imposter copies stat changes.
Dynamax raises your stats, so you can send in Ditto, copy the boosted stats, and then Dynamax and boost them even more.
If you send Ditto in against Zacian, it not only copies the Intrepid Sword boost, but it also copies the ability itself and gets another boost. And it can also have the stats of Zacian-C (other than HP) without needing to hold the Rusted Sword.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 23:55:39 No.43139106 Report

Quoted By:

>>43138159
I'm pretty sure Behemoth Blade just doesn't work right on Showdown's calculator, the real damage values don't change when the opponent Dynamaxes.
>+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Xerneas: 578-684
>+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Dynamax Xerneas: 578-684

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Mar 2020 23:58:16 No.43139126 Report

Quoted By: >>43139180

>>43138856
Imagine people complaining the Ditto is broken and needs to be nerfed

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Mar 2020 00:02:43 No.43139180 Report

Quoted By: >>43139270

>>43139126
Ditto can never truly be broken. It can only reflect its surroundings.
That's why it should be untiered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Mar 2020 00:12:18 No.43139270 Report

Quoted By: >>43140494 >>43140655

>>43139180
You could break ditto pretty easily If it's base HP was higher.
Dynamax already removes the downside of it always being choice locked and having low PP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Mar 2020 02:53:20 No.43140494 Report

Quoted By: >>43140517

>>43139270
Ditto is only choice locked if you want it to be and max moves still use up PP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Mar 2020 02:56:49 No.43140517 Report

Quoted By: >>43140664 >>43141421

>>43140494
using a non scarf ditto seems retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Mar 2020 03:20:26 No.43140655 Report

Quoted By:

>>43139270
>You could break ditto pretty easily If it's base HP was higher.
>what is Mew

I was using bulky Mew to great effect before dynamax was banned. Transform on the switch then dynamax. You are now Imposter proof and have double the HP of a ditto.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Mar 2020 03:22:54 No.43140664 Report

Quoted By:

>>43140517
>using a non scarf ditto seems retarded.

Against special attackers like Xerneas, running AV can be a better play since you need to 2HKO to kill it anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 27 Mar 2020 05:28:03 No.43141421 Report

Quoted By:

>>43140517
Yeah, but you can use it.

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