/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #43386899

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Which one should be suspected first?

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 19:50:11 No.43386899 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>43386971 >>43387003 >>43387081 >>43388129 >>43388680 >>43388871 >>43388959 >>43392335 >>43393718 >>43394062 >>43401132 >>43404554 >>43406184

Since OU plans to suspect all of them at some point. Which one is the biggest cancer?
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-ss-ou-suspect-process-round-3-iron-man.3662190/page-4#post-8428502

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 19:54:39 No.43386953 Report

Quoted By:

Clefable. Dracovish probably should be suspected but its not exactly broken itself since its easy to be counterable. Besides, it only really affects one teamslot while Clefable's bullshit is affecting entire teams, and its the far more obnoxious Pokemon on the tier and is actively reducing team diversity by its existence.

Kyurem is a distant third.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 19:56:25 No.43386971 Report

Quoted By: >>43393969

>>43386899
Why kyurem? it have many weaknesses and some mons that stop it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 19:58:50 No.43386992 Report

Quoted By: >>43387052 >>43393966

>abiding by rules set by a non official, in beta (for years) entity

why lmfao

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 19:59:37 No.43387003 Report

Quoted By: >>43387077

>>43386899
Draco is overrated, Kyurem can be worked around pretty easily, Clefable is balanced if you ban teleport.
ez pz

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 20:06:18 No.43387052 Report

Quoted By: >>43401807

>>43386992
Because the alternative is abiding to rules set by an official entity, and that entity is Gamefreak.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 20:08:51 No.43387077 Report

Quoted By: >>43392884 >>43400372 >>43401888

>>43387003
Smogon almost always goes for banning mons over moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 20:09:22 No.43387080 Report

Quoted By: >>43388954 >>43393749

I know Dracovish can deal frankly unholy amounts of damage but I feel like water immunity and being faster than base 75 speed are already enough to keep it in check

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 20:09:26 No.43387081 Report

Quoted By:

>>43386899
Toss-up between Clefable and Dracovish. Draco fucks up team building way too hard even if it's easy to invalidate. For Clefable, I just want this fat balance shit to fuck off

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 21:31:14 No.43388129 Report

Quoted By: >>43388214 >>43388957

>>43386899
Dracovish.
The mere threat of Dracovish puts a massive restriction on teambuilding by requiring you to use a water immunity. Even a resist isn't good enough most of the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 21:36:43 No.43388214 Report

Quoted By: >>43388229 >>43388251 >>43388658

>>43388129
Who will come in after its gone. I feel like its the thing stopping stall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 21:38:25 No.43388229 Report

Quoted By: >>43388243

>>43388214
Toxapex

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 21:39:41 No.43388243 Report

Quoted By:

>>43388229
Basically unkillable, it can be subbed on but it even runs haze lmao.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 21:40:25 No.43388251 Report

Quoted By: >>43388699

>>43388214
Not really.
Stall is terrible this gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:10:17 No.43388658 Report

Quoted By:

>>43388214
Conkeldurr is genuinely harder to wall than Dracovish, but Dracovish fishes matchups more which makes it a more toxic presence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:12:18 No.43388680 Report

Quoted By:

>>43386899
Clef + Corv is absolutely the most cancerous core if you're playing stall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:13:29 No.43388699 Report

Quoted By: >>43388779 >>43388934 >>43395654

>>43388251
You know damn well what people fucking mean when they say stall they don't mean your autistic "aktually that's balance" autism because "balance" is too broad for what they mean.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:21:12 No.43388779 Report

Quoted By: >>43388832

>>43388699
Dracovish does nothing to the "achuyally it's balance" teams because they all run Seismitoad and/or Bunker Toxapex.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:26:21 No.43388832 Report

Quoted By:

>>43388779
>bait out toad or pex with dracovish
>double to kyurem and kill it (or just take a kill)
>Vish 5-0s the """"""Balance"""""""" team

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:29:15 No.43388871 Report

Quoted By: >>43390067

>>43386899
Literally why don't they just wait for the DLC

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:33:54 No.43388934 Report

Quoted By:

>>43388699
In other words you’re talking about stall, which is shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:35:34 No.43388954 Report

Quoted By: >>43399341

>>43387080
>Zera outspeeds
>Fails to kill bc 90/100 bulk
>Rend ohkoes anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:35:44 No.43388957 Report

Quoted By:

>>43388129
This

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:36:00 No.43388959 Report

Quoted By:

>>43386899
the meta itself is cancer
you guys take the game too seriously :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 23:56:47 No.43390067 Report

Quoted By:

>>43388871
Because the DLC is months away and the meta will still be cancer in the meantime.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 03:06:21 No.43392335 Report

Quoted By:

>>43386899
Clefable by far.
Although a teleport ban would be better than a Clefable ban.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 04:15:29 No.43392884 Report

Quoted By: >>43392957

>>43387077
True, but not in cases where the move is obviously the problem.
Clefable wouldn't be the fat sack of AIDS it is without Teleport.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 04:23:34 No.43392938 Report

Quoted By:

They should suspect Dracovish because it's the only one of the three that is actually shaping teambuilding in a negative way

You can run more Kyurem/Clefable checks if you're not obligated to run toad on every team

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 3886A1AB-03AA-4719-A556-EB4EB64B (...).jpg, 125KiB, 900x924

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 04:25:48 No.43392957 Report

Quoted By: >>43393566 >>43403516

>>43392884
>True, but not in cases where the move is obviously the problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 04:28:40 No.43392985 Report

Quoted By:

Suspect Dracovish, then wait until DLC. Clef and Kyurem will be manageable then

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 05:32:40 No.43393566 Report

Quoted By: >>43393601

>>43392957
Do you mean to Thousand Arrows? What problem does it have?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 05:36:19 No.43393601 Report

Quoted By: >>43393680 >>43395244

>>43393566
It made Zygarde broken

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 05:46:38 No.43393680 Report

Quoted By: >>43393729 >>43393861

>>43393601
But only it was counter for mons flying type and other type with weakness to Ground (as Zapdos and Skarmory), it would be broken in this gen because they cuted out HP ice

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 05:54:12 No.43393718 Report

Quoted By:

>>43386899
Dracovish
l

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 05:55:48 No.43393729 Report

Quoted By: >>43394716 >>43396168

>>43393680
That’s the problem. It invalidated the main answer to Ground type moves, Flying Pokémon. Zygarde was perfectly fine before it learned Thousand Arrows

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 05:59:01 No.43393749 Report

Quoted By:

>>43387080
You know Choice Scarf is it's most used item, right?
The only Pokemon faster than Dracovish in OU are Dragapult, Zeroara, and other Scarfers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 06:15:05 No.43393861 Report

Quoted By: >>43394693 >>43396333

>>43393680
The problem with Zygarde was its abundance of really good sets and huge bulk, meaning by the time you figured out the set to get the counterplay right, it might as well already be over. sure its attack stat is low, but does that really matter if you can easily get to +3 behind a sub?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO LOL!.jpg, 17KiB, 720x537

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 06:34:06 No.43393966 Report

Quoted By:

>>43386992
Go back to your event, VGCuck.
Oh wait, LOL!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 06:34:35 No.43393969 Report

Quoted By: >>43394099 >>43394385 >>43394872

>>43386971
The only real counter keeping it in check is Clefable. Nothing else can comfortably switch into Specs, especially since they're starting to run Modest.
If Clefable goes, Kyurem will too. Sylveon is too much of a downgrade.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 06:48:22 No.43394062 Report

Quoted By:

>>43386899
>tfw making a team with all three because of this thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 06:54:02 No.43394099 Report

Quoted By:

>>43393969
Sylveon does wall shit harder, but yeah, lack of magic guard is noticeable

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 07:53:22 No.43394385 Report

Quoted By: >>43394429

>>43393969
>Sylveon is too much of a downgrade
Is it really?
I know it is a downgrade, but it's not unusable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 08:01:35 No.43394429 Report

Quoted By:

>>43394385
If Sylveon were the go to Kyurem answer people would just pair it with spikes stacking or toxic spikes to put it in range if a 2HKO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 09:06:10 No.43394693 Report

Quoted By: >>43394795 >>43394802 >>43394816 >>43396189 >>43399705 >>43400346

>>43393861
Ok but mons with Infiltrator with HP ice (regardless of its sets) they could stop it, once I saw Noirvern (sash) breaks it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 09:09:48 No.43394716 Report

Quoted By: >>43396352

>>43393729
So, why lasted it until the beginning of 2019 in OU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 09:26:05 No.43394795 Report

Quoted By:

>>43394693
>uuh achzyually my sashed shitmon stops it so it it fine!
The biggest telltale that something is busted beyond repair.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 09:27:26 No.43394802 Report

Quoted By: >>43399753

>>43394693
Also Dragon Pulse, let alone Draco Meteor, does more damage than HP Ice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 09:31:17 No.43394816 Report

Quoted By: >>43399753

>>43394693
>Zygarde switches out and your weak shitmon is useless against literally any other popular Zygarde teammate
woah...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 09:40:57 No.43394872 Report

Quoted By:

>>43393969
Clefable isn't a counter, just freeze bait.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 11:00:30 No.43395244 Report

Quoted By: >>43395677

>>43393601
Bro just use ice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 11:07:37 No.43395287 Report

Quoted By: >>43396160 >>43396831

smogon should sit back for a while and makes their suspect test last longer and with more time inbetween
doing test after test after test without ever letting the time for the meta to settle is absolutely retarded
and the first DLC is so close all of this will come crumbling down because new threats and counter are going to appear that will negate everything until now

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 12:29:10 No.43395654 Report

Quoted By:

>>43388699
Retard, a team having a defensive backbone does not mean it's stall. Stall does not use wincons and offensive breakers outside of specific trappers maybe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 12:35:58 No.43395677 Report

Quoted By: >>43396120

>>43395244
People who point out that a good Pokemon has a double weakness seriously shouldn't be allowed to post.

>haha le Swinub used Powder Snow xD

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 13:57:16 No.43396120 Report

Quoted By: >>43396316

>>43395677
not that anon, but he never said that, he sad "bro just use ice."

cope, seethe and dilate, boomer

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:01:17 No.43396141 Report

Quoted By:

https://skribbl.io/?6FcEjoFMHRsZ

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:06:32 No.43396160 Report

Quoted By:

>>43395287
This, they're just bored with themselves at this point. GF screwed them over spacing the releases like this but the first DLC isn't even that far away now, just wait for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:08:48 No.43396168 Report

Quoted By: >>43396379

>>43393729
Thousand arrows still has resists. Grass types, bug types and its not that high base power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:14:10 No.43396189 Report

Quoted By:

>>43394693
One of the signs that something is OP is that you have to start running crazy shit like HP ice Noivern on your team to beat it

If it warps the meta enough that you have to prepare for it on any team you build, that's a problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:23:28 No.43396229 Report

Quoted By:

Zygarde and Dracovish are really good comps. Most players were surprised at the Zygarde suspect because they'd long since adapted to it and stopped thinking about how it shaped teambuilding. There was pushback among elite players thinking Zygarde sacks were just part of the game. Zygarde didn't have a particularly high usage either, something like 12%, less than Ash-Greninja.
Then Zygarde gets banned and the SM meta improves a lot, creating the most balanced meta Pokemon has seen since Gen IV after the Salamence ban.
Adapting to Dracovish doesn't make it any less broken, and the only thing depressing its usage down at this point is high Seismitoad usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:36:08 No.43396316 Report

Quoted By:

>>43396120
That's exactly what he meant. "Bro just use ice" has to be the most useless pseudo-advice ever, you dipshit. You think the people don't know Zygarde is weak to ice? Luckily the masterminds of /vp/ will always tell you if a Pokemon does have a double weakness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:38:46 No.43396333 Report

Quoted By:

>>43393861
And notice how none of those things mattered until it got Thousand Arrows

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:39:14 No.43396337 Report

Quoted By: >>43400448

>Dracovish
Really? Just use Eiscue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:41:50 No.43396352 Report

Quoted By:

>>43394716
Fuck if I know

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:46:50 No.43396379 Report

Quoted By: >>43396413

>>43396168
Only two(2) resists, and there aren’t that many Pokémon that can take it in general, and it Base It owner is still good enough to do shit

Keep in mind Zygarde didn’t become a problem until it got T-Arrows

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:54:59 No.43396413 Report

Quoted By: >>43396435 >>43396441

>>43396379
Not him, but many people didn't take advantage of Buzzwole, who walled the fuck out of Zygarde. I enjoyed using defensive Roost sets because it was one of the best walls in the game and covered Zygarde extremely well. That the Sub + Focus Buzzwole set was the most popular one says a lot more about the sheeple mentality of the community against their ability to adapt. At least people were using Tangrowth though, which was another good call.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 14:59:45 No.43396435 Report

Quoted By: >>43396530

>>43396413
Yeah this. Both lose to sub+toxic zygarde though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 15:00:20 No.43396441 Report

Quoted By: >>43396530

>>43396413
Buzzwole is slower and gets poisoned or paralyzed and then loses the 1v1. Not to mention that Buzzwole is really weak to a lot of other common Pokemon so Zygyarde can just rely on them to take care of your epic Roost Buzzwole.

You really btfo the smogon sheeple. The fact that people ran shit like Curse Scizor-Mega is telling enough that it was broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 15:12:45 No.43396530 Report

Quoted By: >>43396621

>>43396435
>>43396441
You can tell what set Zygarde is by if it has Leftovers. Band Toxic was the best Zygarde set imo, which is why it's the one I used when I used one, but that required careful prediction. Also Fini Misty Surge and Aromatherapy/Heal Bell worked great to deter Zygarde from cracking.

Curse Mega Scizor was a meme that caught on. Besides, "Buzzwole is really weak to a lot of other common Pokemon" is like saying the same about Skarmory. You sound like you really underestimate it. Z-Fly was its main weakness from the things it could've usually switched in on, but unless you absolutely couldn't scout the set you wouldn't let that happen, that's just playing bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 15:25:13 No.43396621 Report

Quoted By: >>43396673

>>43396530
The Pokemon that are supposed to check Zygarde don't really have Heal Bell or Aromatherapy. That means you have to switch to one of your passive clerics first, then go back to your Zygarde "check" and all while the Zygarde user does what? Just watch you heal up for free?

Not to mention that Glare and Toxic have more PP any than the healing moves anyway so there's nothing stoping Zygarde from once again crippling your check with status.

Zygarde also has viable sets that aren't Leftovers Substitue or Choice Band like Iapapa Berry on Screens HO which was also really broken or different Z-Crystals.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 15:34:20 No.43396673 Report

Quoted By:

>>43396621
Well they're not only playing with Zygarde, and it's not like there's an immediate need to heal your Pokemon, it's just a matter of opportunity. For example, there's Vaporeon coming in on Heatran or Chansey coming in on like half of all attackers.
I hadn't had trouble with the latter sets because they play pretty linearly. Once they see my Buzzwole has Ice Punch they pause, then either switch out mid-setup or get in a hit then die.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 15:55:49 No.43396831 Report

Quoted By: >>43400381

>>43395287
Fuck off. No one wants a repeat of gen 7.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 19:50:23 No.43399266 Report

Quoted By: >>43400463

None. Smogon should stop existing forever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 19:55:15 No.43399341 Report

Quoted By: >>43399440

>>43388954
Why would Zeraora kill fish? Plasma fists is neutral, so is grass knot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:03:10 No.43399440 Report

Quoted By:

>>43399341
Because it's one of two things that's faster than it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:25:52 No.43399705 Report

Quoted By: >>43399850

>>43394693
>sash
Sash is only good on suicide leads. Otherwise you have to spend the whole game keeping rocks away for that you can possibly stop a Zygarde once

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:29:51 No.43399753 Report

Quoted By: >>43399807 >>43399825 >>43405621

>>43394816
>Fainted Zygarde
>Next turn, fainted your Noirvern (or mon with Infiltrator)
>Into your OTHER revenge killer
Are you one of those who use a fully stall team?
>>43394802
Also, but I prefer weakness x4 than STAB, Noirvern has a good SpA

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:34:35 No.43399807 Report

Quoted By: >>43399924 >>43400081

>>43399753
>Are you one of those who use a fully stall team?
I never used stall, I'm just trying to tell you that using some shitmon just for one purpose is retarded
>Noirvern has a good SpA
Oh so you actually are retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:35:58 No.43399825 Report

Quoted By: >>43399924 >>43400081 >>43400394

>>43399753
What the fuck are you babbling on about? The guy you replied to said that Noivern is shit because guess what, it is shit in OU so the Zygarde user is free to switch into one of his many teammates who have no problem dealing with your epic Noivern. Is every awful player programmed to bring up stall for no reason?

You're also bad for thinking HP Ice deals more damage than STAB Dragon Meteor or even Dragon Pulse. Both are objectively stronger against Zygarde than HP Ice due to STAB.

HP Ice has 60 BP times 4 = 240

Dragon Pulse has 85 BP plus STAB times 2 = 255

Also Noivern does not even have good special attack, you complete mouthbreather.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:37:46 No.43399850 Report

Quoted By: >>43399903

>>43399705
that's why there are teams builder

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:43:16 No.43399903 Report

Quoted By: >>43399977

>>43399850
Your point?
If it’s “lmao just use 5 Pokemon to deal with Zygarde+Hazards”, then try watching real battles and take notes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:45:23 No.43399924 Report

Quoted By: >>43400015 >>43400036

>>43399825
>>43399807
Let's see, I put Noivern an example, clearly there are more Infiltrator users like Chandelure or Dragapult (if HP returns), learn to read, please

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:50:48 No.43399977 Report

Quoted By: >>43400078 >>43400178

>>43399903
Let's see, teams builder are to counter several troublesome mons (example using Gastro against Vish), I never mentioned 5 mons to counter ONLY ONE retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:53:21 No.43400015 Report

Quoted By: >>43400178

>>43399924
And both still require you to have them in the back of your team, doing nothing, hoping your opponent doesn’t kill your defoggers before Zygarde comes out, and you also have to sack something on top of that.
You are just assuming this is a 1v1 game, but it’s a 6v6 game.
Your Chandelure/Dragapult are not being utilized in a more productive way because you plan on just using them to kill 1 Pokemon, and it’s not even guaranteed to do so because they can freely switch their Zygarde while you have to tip toe around hazards if you want them to continue countering Zygarde.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:55:00 No.43400036 Report

Quoted By: >>43400373

>>43399924
You're the retard who needs to learn how to read. You're going on about your epic Infiltrator and you still don't understand basic things like Dragapult not even needing HP Ice to deal more damage to Zygarde.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:58:26 No.43400078 Report

Quoted By:

>>43399977
I also never mentioned it would just counter Zygarde.
I said Zygarde+Hazards.
All your opponent needs is a stealth rock user (which they likely already have), while you need a diverse portion of your team to ensure you can keep Hazards off the field.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 20:58:47 No.43400081 Report

Quoted By: >>43400146 >>43400153

>>43399825
>Also Noivern does not even have good special attack, you complete mouthbreather.
>>43399807

If you know the difference between good and excellent, trueth? RETARDS

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:06:40 No.43400146 Report

Quoted By: >>43400238

>>43400081
Ok, I think it's time you stop posting. Not only are you beyond atrocious at the game but you can barely even communicate in english. Learn how to write a proper sentence, then learn how to play and maybe then you can make a proper argument that actually makes sense.

You're like a poster child for the all brainless idiots of this board.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:07:29 No.43400153 Report

Quoted By: >>43400312

>>43400081
We're talking about gen 7 OU here which has mons like mega-Alakazam (175), Blacephalon (151), Zard-Y (159) and Ash-Greninja (153) in it, just to name a few.
How the hell is 97 good?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:10:14 No.43400178 Report

Quoted By: >>43400289 >>43400371

>>43400015
The same for you
>>43399977
>Let's see, teams builder are to counter several troublesome mons , I never mentioned 5 mons to counter ONLY ONE retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:16:09 No.43400238 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400146
What is your problem with his English? and if it were a problem, even for us it's a little low to humiliate an ESL

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:22:52 No.43400289 Report

Quoted By: >>43400312 >>43400394 >>43400457

>>43400178
For me SpA 97 is good, the ones you mention are excellent and even a little exaggerated, what i meant as good was to finish off Zygarde HP ice + Infiltrator.
If you want to go for a mon with more SpA + Hp ice + Infiltrator, Chandelure (with Sash) is an option

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:24:49 No.43400312 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400153
Sorry, >>43400289
A MISTAKE

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:27:30 No.43400346 Report

Quoted By: >>43400371 >>43401532

>>43394693
Here is a pro tip.
If your strategies involve you being in an idle situation, then they are bad strategies.
If you want your infiltrator+sash strategy to work and without any support, you need;
>The opponent to not have hazard setter
>The opponent to not have pursuit or for the opponent to not know how switching works or It’s the first time the opponent has seem this strategy
>You have no use for any other revenge killer/wallbreaker (Remember, no support for your infilsash user, so you can’t use another special wallbreaker or fast scout/revenge killer)
>Your opponent just lacks any move that can break your sash on some mixed wall your teammates can’t get past
>You don’t need your sash user for anything else

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:29:41 No.43400371 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400178
So your solution is to play a game of 5v6 most of the match, pull out 1 Pokemon in the ideal situation, just to kill 1 specific Pokemon that isn’t guaranteed?
>>43400346
Ideal*

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:29:43 No.43400372 Report

Quoted By: >>43400395 >>43400915

>>43387077
Klefkei and Swagger

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:29:53 No.43400373 Report

Quoted By: >>43400394 >>43400405 >>43400548

>>43400036
X4 weakness>>>>>> STAB

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:30:41 No.43400381 Report

Quoted By: >>43401244

>>43396831
>No one wants a repeat of gen 7
gen8 doesn't even have the mechanics that ruined gen7, it will never become like it for that simple reason
gen8 with the DLCs will be like gen5 OU with new mons and it would be the best thing that could happen to smogon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:31:58 No.43400394 Report

Quoted By: >>43400415 >>43401108

>>43400289
>For me SpA 97 is good
0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 220-260 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 360-426 (85.7 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Zapdos is a mon with something I would call /good/ SpA, because it can invest heavily into other stats while still dishing out damage with its STAB/super effective moves.
>>43400373
He actually did the math for you. At this point I just hope you're trolling >>43399825

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:32:01 No.43400395 Report

Quoted By: >>43400464

>>43400372
Reading comprehension

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:33:16 No.43400405 Report

Quoted By: >>43400497 >>43401108

>>43400373
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 554-654 (146.9 - 173.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Hidden Power Ice vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 340-404 (90.1 - 107.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:34:12 No.43400415 Report

Quoted By: >>43401108

>>43400394
I actually copied the wrong calc lel
252 SpA Noivern Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 224-268 (53.3 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:37:09 No.43400448 Report

Quoted By:

>>43396337
>Using a shitmon that can't even OHKO without special attack investment, and then eats dirt against literally everything else in OU
Nice job. You remind me of the retards who told you to just run AssVest Skuntank to check Greninja back in Gen 6.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:37:44 No.43400457 Report

Quoted By: >>43400507 >>43400549 >>43400585

>>43400289
>252 SpA Noivern Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 224-268 (53.3 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
You don’t kill, at all. And this is without special bulk investment. Draco Meteor isn’t a KO either
>252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 360-426 (85.7 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

>Chandelure
>252 SpA Chandelure Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 296-352 (70.4 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Doesn’t kill either.
None of the Infiltrator Pokémon can KO Zygarde without a boosting item. Did you even look this up?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:38:11 No.43400463 Report

Quoted By:

>>43399266
Post Ball Rank

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:38:15 No.43400464 Report

Quoted By: >>43400674 >>43402248

>>43400395
I was told they go for the mon 99% of the time, and cited a case where they didnt. Tell me where my comprehensive mistake is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:41:06 No.43400497 Report

Quoted By: >>43400594

>>43400405
>Draco Meteor
>Lowers user's Sp. Atk
No bro

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:41:50 No.43400507 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400457
>None of the Infiltrator Pokémon can KO Zygarde without a boosting item. Did you even look this up?
Probably not because he thinks a x4 weakness means instant death or something. I also doubt he ever played gen 7 OU (with or without Zygarde around).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:44:55 No.43400548 Report

Quoted By: >>43401108

>>43400373
>still goes on about this 4x weakness shit even though it's literally already been explained that dragon STAB moves do more damage

Ok, this is the final confirmation that you're a complete mouthbreather. This is fucking embarrassing. These are the kind of people who think they are in a position to make any comments on competitive play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:45:01 No.43400549 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400457
>Did you even look this up?
Any time someone comes up with a “counter”, it’s usually some kid that sees a singular problem and only tries solving that, instead of looking at the whole picture.
They see “Well Zygarde is under sub, so just hit past the Sub with a super effective atrack”, forgetting that Zygarde has some pretty good bulk, that HP is pretty weak, and that the opponent has teammates/can switch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:48:23 No.43400585 Report

Quoted By: >>43400661

>>43400457
Change Noivern and Chandelure with Choice Specs

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:49:02 No.43400594 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400497
Dropping multiple Draco Meteors on Zygarde is still stronger than multiple HP Ice.
173+(173/2) = 259.5
107+107 = 214

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:54:11 No.43400661 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400585
You said Infiltrator and Focus Sash. Now they just get beat outright, especially since Zygarde outspeeds Chandelure. And Noivern still doesn’t OHKO
>252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 336-396 (80 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

What are you trying to accomplish here?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 21:55:14 No.43400674 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400464
>and cited a case where they didnt
Why

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 22:18:16 No.43400915 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400372
Swagger was a faggy move on every Pokémon potentially, people already used Swagger Thundurus and Sableye before, even Swagger Mandibuzz worked despite not having Prankster. They didn't ban Swagger because they wanted to preserve Klefki, but because banning Klefki wouldn't have accomplished shit, while banning Clef would accomplish the goal.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_2020-04-26-17-26-14.png, 145KiB, 960x540

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 22:34:34 No.43401108 Report

Quoted By: >>43401128 >>43401139 >>43401185 >>43401254

>>43400548
>>43400415
>>43400405
>>43400394
LMAO

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_2020-04-26-17-28-42.png, 119KiB, 960x540

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 22:35:41 No.43401128 Report

Quoted By: >>43401254

>>43401108

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 22:35:51 No.43401132 Report

Quoted By: >>43401148

>>43386899
Really hard to care about smogon when they allow cut pokemon in gen 8's meta

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 22:36:17 No.43401139 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401108
You've identified yourself as a shitskin and therefore lose no matter what you do, sorry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 22:37:05 No.43401148 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401132
They don't, though.
Natdex is a different format entirely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 22:39:52 No.43401185 Report

Quoted By: >>43401213

>>43401108
The whole argument is that Dragon Pulse and Draco Meteor do more damage, you moron.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 22:42:15 No.43401213 Report

Quoted By: >>43401497

>>43401185
Not to mention that it's suddenly Choice Specs Noivern now after he realized his epic sash Noivern doesn't do enough damage with HP Ice.

Absolutely fucking amazing. Truly a prime example of the absolute state of /vp/. Illiterate ESLs who don't even play the game but will try to tell you how the game works.

I will say it for the last time, retard: Learn how to read. Dragon STAB literally does more damage than HP Ice. How fucking stupid do you have to be to not understand this at this point?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 22:45:37 No.43401244 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400381
Gen 5 was terrible

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 22:45:56 No.43401254 Report

Quoted By: >>43401549

>>43401108
>>43401128
Why the fuck would you screen cap the damage calculations instead of copy&pasting them?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_2020-04-26-18-05-18.png, 136KiB, 960x540

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:05:57 No.43401497 Report

Quoted By: >>43401532 >>43401563 >>43401589 >>43401608 >>43401657

>>43401213
I do not need to demonstrate anything, Focus Slash for that is, you do not need to make OHKO for that item, that's why it's its function to withstand a blow, also it almost approaches leaving the target in middle life (related image),while Zygarde uses Substitute or DD after HP ice. If I'm an ESL I don't need to know English to show you that I am more competitive than you

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:10:44 No.43401532 Report

Quoted By: >>43401608

>>43401497
>got so mad his english got worse
fucking amazing
>uhhh focus sash doesn't need to OHKO i-it can withstand a hit
see >>43400346

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_2020-04-26-18-08-49.png, 127KiB, 540x960

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:12:31 No.43401549 Report

Quoted By: >>43401759

>>43401254
Here you got it, you're welcome

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:13:40 No.43401563 Report

Quoted By: >>43401759

>>43401497
>you do not need to make OHKO for that item
For Noivern, you do since Zygarde’s most common coverage move is Extreme Speed and Noivern isn’t immune to normal.
And for Chandelure/Dragapult, you need to sack something WHILE keeping hazards up to ensure they can do 2 attacks.
Also good luck trying to sack something without Zygarde just spamming Dragon Dance too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:16:41 No.43401589 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401497
>I do not need to demonstrate anything, Focus Slash for that is, you do not need to make OHKO for that item
Yes they do, otherwise they lose

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:18:48 No.43401608 Report

Quoted By: >>43401716 >>43401748

>>43401532
>uhhh focus sash doesn't need to OHKO i-it can withstand a hit
Yes, do you know DEFOG? Hahahaha your incompetence is more shameful than this anon's english >>43401497

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:23:09 No.43401657 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401497
Holy fuck, learn English before posting, you shitskinned retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:23:13 No.43401659 Report

Quoted By: >>43401714 >>43401726 >>43404883 >>43405529

Kyurem, good god why is a box legendary in OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:30:23 No.43401714 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401659
Because it's the 2nd weakest box legendary ever (Suicune being the weakest).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:30:25 No.43401716 Report

Quoted By: >>43401842

>>43401608
>Yes, do you know DEFOG?
Yeah, and you need an entire teammate to defog hazards away and you have to hope your opponent just lets you defog their hazards and lets your defogger live.
And it’s harder to keep your defogger alive when you are in essential a 5v6 and they have a powerful Pokemon like Zygarde that doesn’t mind flying types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:31:27 No.43401726 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401659
It’s part Ice

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:32:47 No.43401748 Report

Quoted By: >>43401842

>>43401608
>throw a defog user at the mon with the earth move that hits flying types
>zigarde dragon dances once
>oops your sash user can't kill it anymore because it gets outspeed and doesn't OHKO
nice play anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:33:25 No.43401759 Report

Quoted By: >>43401798

>>43401549
>>43401563
>Extreme Speed
Idk, you see >>43401549

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:37:03 No.43401798 Report

Quoted By: >>43401870

>>43401759
>Choice Specs
You aren’t even keeping track of your shitty meme sets or your own arguments

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:38:24 No.43401807 Report

Quoted By:

>>43387052
>abiding to rules
faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:41:27 No.43401842 Report

Quoted By: >>43401895

>>43401716
>>43401748
If you know that Pokemon is a game luck, nothing is sure and exact both what you do and what your opponent is going to do

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:44:29 No.43401870 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401798
What?? I thought I was the ESL here

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:45:59 No.43401888 Report

Quoted By: >>43401941

>>43387077
Anyone else remember when Sand Rush the ability was banned because they wanted Excadrill back in bw ou instead of just banning Sand Rush on Exca haha..

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:46:46 No.43401895 Report

Quoted By: >>43401923 >>43401980

>>43401842
You know when someone doesn’t have anything else to say when they say this. What exactly is stopping us from saying the same to you? In fact we’re kind of doing that right now

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:48:38 No.43401923 Report

Quoted By: >>43401941

>>43401895
That pissed me off so much, especially since Excadrill is still stupidly good even without Sand Rush. For fucks sake people are using SAND FORCE on this thing in sand teams

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:49:39 No.43401941 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401923
Meant for >>43401888

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 23:52:28 No.43401980 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401895
*YAWN*

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 00:16:45 No.43402248 Report

Quoted By:

>>43400464
ALMOST always.
Citing an exception doesn't disprove the fact that they almost always ban the mon instead of the move/ability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 02:09:15 No.43403425 Report

Quoted By: >>43403516

Why did this thread devolve into Noivern/Zygarde shitflinging?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 02:16:29 No.43403516 Report

Quoted By:

>>43403425
Seems to have started here >>43392957

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 04:28:42 No.43404554 Report

Quoted By:

>>43386899
Dracovish is by far the worst thing in OU right now and the degree to which it warps teambuilding is absurd.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 05:17:27 No.43404883 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401659
>Kyurem, good god why is a box legendary in OU

670 BST is wasted with mixed attacking stats and a bad defensive typing that is offensively checked by Steel
Unsurprisingly, the other legendary with over 600 BST in OU is also a slow mixed attacker

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 06:34:11 No.43405529 Report

Quoted By:

>>43401659
>why is a box legendary in OU
Because Smogon tiers mons by usage and bans them if they're overwhelmingly powerful.
Kyurem is one of the few box legendaries weak enough to be acceptable in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 06:46:22 No.43405621 Report

Quoted By:

>>43399753
Please stop posting dude, unironically git gud

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 08:05:55 No.43406184 Report

Quoted By:

>>43386899
None. Suspect Teleport.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 08:11:14 No.43406227 Report

Quoted By:

>people ITT are too low elo to beat choiced pokemon

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