/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #43523959

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Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 07:21:46 No.43523959 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>43523962 >>43523994 >>43524061 >>43524184 >>43528371 >>43532666 >>43533945

You know why Gen 8 OU is so shit?
It's because the best pokemon in the tier is immune to Stealth Rock, the second best pokemon is the most consistent Defogger in the game, and the third best pokemon uses Heavy Duty Boots and also Defogs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 07:23:05 No.43523962 Report

Quoted By: >>43523980 >>43531200

>>43523959
lol fuck sneaky pebbles. end urself desu

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 07:28:27 No.43523979 Report

Quoted By:

>smogon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 07:28:30 No.43523980 Report

Quoted By: >>43523992 >>43524003 >>43527313

>>43523962
t. Xx_Chariz4rd_fan_2004_xX

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 07:32:38 No.43523992 Report

Quoted By:

>>43523980
my sides are gone

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO swsh ou pebbles.png, 93KiB, 806x922

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 07:33:09 No.43523994 Report

Quoted By: >>43524036 >>43526165 >>43527117 >>43532424 >>43535409

>>43523959
Interesting observation.
Seems like most of the top tiers are either immune, resistant to, or can clear pebbles.
Seems like the meta revolves around pebbles.
But the real question is if this meta is shit because of the over reliance on countering pebbles, or if it's shit because pebbles can't do their work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 07:34:19 No.43524003 Report

Quoted By:

>>43523980
kek, i want to see a charizard coldsteel parody with this now
replace blood_skull_boi or whatever it was

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 07:43:47 No.43524036 Report

Quoted By:

>>43523994
Pebbles not being able to pressure switching is why "fat balance" teams can so easily switch from defensive wall to defensive wall and force boring long games.
The absolute most cookie cutter core of Clefable/Corviknight/Seismitoad does not give a shit about the chip damage from Stealth Rock because Corviknight Defogs so freely, Clefable is immune, and Seismitoad resists it.
Add onto this the fact that Teleport Wish passing makes chip damage matter even less, I think it's pretty clear why this meta is so slow paced and defensive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 07:50:41 No.43524061 Report

Quoted By: >>43524157 >>43524286 >>43525660

>>43523959
I wonder what went through GF's mind when they designed boots. Just from first glance you can tell it will be one of the most useful items in 6v6 singles but useless in official metagames, which calls into question if they truly do not know about what goes on in the 6v6 scene.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 08:12:21 No.43524157 Report

Quoted By:

>>43524061
They're probably not completely oblivious to stuff related to 6v6 singles. They've gotta have some PR people checking pokemon related discussions on twitter or whatever, so they've probably seen memes about stealth rocks killing Charizard, swagger Klefki, and Kyurem having no moves.
Any sort of balance changes they do for 6v6 singles are probably super low priority though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 08:19:52 No.43524184 Report

Quoted By: >>43524281

>>43523959
>advocating for stealth rock
what a massive faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 08:42:34 No.43524281 Report

Quoted By: >>43538933

>>43524184
cringe stallkek

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 08:44:35 No.43524286 Report

Quoted By: >>43525562 >>43525864

>>43524061
>I wonder what went through GF's mind when they designed boots
"Rhat? Rizardon isu notto goodo inu fanufiku meta? Thisu wirru notto do! Makeu an itemu thatu canserus suniiki pebburus!"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 14:26:30 No.43525562 Report

Quoted By:

>>43524286
kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 14:41:36 No.43525660 Report

Quoted By:

>>43524061
Hazards are used in BSS

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 15:18:23 No.43525864 Report

Quoted By:

>>43524286
Sides gone

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 16:06:53 No.43526165 Report

Quoted By: >>43527050

>>43523994
>Seems like most of the top tiers are either immune, resistant to, or can clear pebbles.
>Seems like the meta revolves around pebbles.
>But the real question is if this meta is shit because of the over reliance on countering pebbles, or if it's shit because pebbles can't do their work.

I think it isn't pebbles or the lack thereof that is the issue, its the lack of distribution of spikes and tspikes. Hazard stacking offense isn't nearly as much of a thing anymore. If you look at the spikers/tspikers in gen8, only a handful aren't shitmons and the ones that aren't really fail to pressure the opponent or force switches like greninja for example.

A lot of these slow balance teams would normally struggle with hazard stacking because they basically make shittons of safeplays and tend to go for pretty long games. Tspikes on their breaker for example just cripples them. However, the lack of viable spikers means that ferro or pex is the only legit option for hazard stacking, corvi and clef can sit on either basically forever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 18:08:44 No.43527050 Report

Quoted By:

>>43526165
Spikes has always been rare as fuck.
Since Gen 5 the only mons that spike stack were Ferrothorn and Skarmory, with Gen 7 also having Greninja.
At least now we have lead Mew.
T-Spikes are a common move for poison types it's just that most poison types are shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 18:19:45 No.43527117 Report

Quoted By:

>>43523994
There's also that the guys you listed that don't resist/remove rocks happen to be powerful cleaners (Hydreigon N.Plots up and someone dies, Zeraora bulking up is a gg and Dragapult is Dragapult)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 18:45:47 No.43527303 Report

Quoted By: >>43527373 >>43527388

Out of curiosity, how would one go about building a Gravity team in Gen VIII OU? Skimming the viability ranks suggests that there's no good Grass or Bug-types left who resist Earthquake in Gravity, and Grassy Surge straight up doesn't exist. I feel like you should be able to make a good Gravity-abusing squad in the current OU metagame, possibly with Dracozolt or Durant tacked on to abuse the negation of Hustle's drawback.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 18:47:09 No.43527313 Report

Quoted By: >>43527362 >>43528753 >>43529631 >>43537679

>>43523980
>If you dislike Stealth Rocks, then you must be a Charizard fan

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 18:52:32 No.43527362 Report

Quoted By:

>>43527313
You must be a retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 18:54:27 No.43527373 Report

Quoted By: >>43527595

>>43527303
There was a somewhat common team spammed on ladder using Banded Excadrill, Eject Button Hippo, Eject Button+Gravity Gigalith, Gravity Ferrothorn, Gravity Clefable, and Dracozolt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 18:56:48 No.43527388 Report

Quoted By: >>43527595

>>43527303
That's a cool idea, I think the basic strategy would be to force damage on their Hippo/Seismitoad/Kommo-o so Gravity Exca can fuck shit up. Terrakion or Diggersby come to mind as breakers, you'd need something to deal with Mach Punches and fast revenge killers though. Also the fact that everything runs Protect sucks for you since it helps stall out Gravity turns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 19:24:52 No.43527595 Report

Quoted By: >>43527911 >>43528332

>>43527373
>>43527388
How well would Reuniclus fit in?
>gets Gravity through USUM tutors
>gets Magic Guard to facilitate switching in frequently and ignoring Sand damage
>resists Mach Punch
>does well against Kommo-o, and can run a Grass move to handle Hippowdon and Seismitoad
One problem I can see is that a Burned Conk still OHKOes it with Knock Off without heavy defensive investment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 20:20:16 No.43527911 Report

Quoted By:

>>43527595
It would be kinda hard to fit in gravity on it's set but I guess it could work.
Reuniclus as a whole is pretty meh in gen 8 though.
Which is weird because it was a huge sleeper threat in gen 7, where it was considered A rank but was never OU by usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 21:16:42 No.43528332 Report

Quoted By: >>43539069

>>43527595
Eh, don't think it's worth it. Not a great setter or abuser (+acc Focus Blast and Thunder is nice, but is that how you want to spend Grav turns?) and can't even force Conkeldurr out if it gets in on Mach Punch. Reuniclus is decent on its own but having it on Gravity might be trying to do too much at once.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 21:21:18 No.43528371 Report

Quoted By: >>43530091

>>43523959
>Stealth rocks can't do what they're supposed to do properly
>Metagame still revolves around them
Fucking gamefreak the only thing you had to do to balance them was making them deal typeless damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 22:06:47 No.43528753 Report

Quoted By:

>>43527313
Okay, good point.
If you dislike Stealth Rocks, then you must be either a Charizard fan or a stallfag.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 00:08:25 No.43529631 Report

Quoted By:

>>43527313
Do you have Asperger's? Serious question.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 01:19:55 No.43530091 Report

Quoted By: >>43533795 >>43533860

>>43528371
>making them deal typeless damage
Nah. If pebbles were typeless, then bug types wouldn't lose 1/4 of their HP from them.
Bugfags are made to suffer, so an indirect buff to bug types can never happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 04:12:25 No.43531200 Report

Quoted By:

>>43523962
Fuck off.
Pebbles punish stall and endless switchfests.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 08:34:52 No.43532424 Report

Quoted By:

>>43523994
This really puts things into perspective.
The only ones who don't resist or clear pebbles are 2 pseudos and a mythical.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 09:53:56 No.43532666 Report

Quoted By: >>43535250 >>43536136

>>43523959
half the point of hazards is to trap them into defogging/spinning and reading it so you gain the advantage. Whats your ELO? lets play

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 15:09:07 No.43533795 Report

Quoted By: >>43533868

>>43530091
Bug types would still be shit, it wouldn't be a real indirect buff because you'd make flying types and fire types better

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 15:20:12 No.43533860 Report

Quoted By:

>>43530091
It's true. I'm a whiny bugfag and this gen has single handedly made me stop playing. They got rid of the two good rapid spinners, and the only KIND OF viable defogger is ribombee which is still an awful solution. The only decent bug that isn't weak to rock this gen is durant, and maybe escavalier. (bug type also barely have any useful priority and few viable speedy attackers)

I gave it the old college try with my bug teams, but this is far worse than even talonflame in XY

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 15:22:21 No.43533868 Report

Quoted By:

>>43533795
>indirect buff because you'd make flying types and fire types better

Who cares. We've been dealing with flying/fire types for decades. What we can't deal with is your team being inordinately punished by fucking switching.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 15:36:53 No.43533945 Report

Quoted By:

>>43523959
They should double the stealth rocks damage so you stall fags can fuck yourselves

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 18:38:07 No.43535250 Report

Quoted By:

>>43532666
You don't really need to defog anymore when anything that gives a shit about rocks runs heavy duty boots or you can just wish pass to them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 18:59:35 No.43535409 Report

Quoted By:

>>43523994
It’s because Pebbles can’t do as much work as they could before.

All those Pokemon are top tier regardless of being less affected by Stealth Rock.
Magic Guard is amazing for Clefable even without Stealth Rock, especially when paired with Life Orb and Soft-boil.
Corviknight could run Bulk Up just fine.
Rotom-Heat would definitely benefit since there would be 0 hazards affecting it anyways, but it still is has a great typing.
Aegislash still has and effective 60/140/140/140/140/60 BST, an amazing typing, it just so happens to be SR resistance.
And so on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 20:46:12 No.43536136 Report

Quoted By:

>>43532666
Then they lose half of their point when your opponent is a Clefable or is running HDB.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 00:17:39 No.43537679 Report

Quoted By:

>>43527313
Yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 03:20:20 No.43538933 Report

Quoted By: >>43539068

>>43524281
Stealth rock is stall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 03:40:29 No.43539068 Report

Quoted By: >>43539283

>>43538933
This board is fucking retarded. According to /vp/ anything is "stall". Yeah bro, the move that consistently punishes switches isn't bad for the playstyle that switches the most.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 03:40:32 No.43539069 Report

Quoted By: >>43539076

>>43528332
Thunder is 50% accuracy in Sand, so even with the gravity boost its kind of meh

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 03:42:00 No.43539076 Report

Quoted By:

>>43539069
That's not true, only sun lowers the accuracy. Thunder stays the same in sand and hail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 04:16:07 No.43539283 Report

Quoted By: >>43539317 >>43539332 >>43539432 >>43539475 >>43541638

>>43539068
Rocks literally are stall. They deal damage without actually attacking. Perfect for a playstyle that relies on chip damage.
And most stallmons have recovery to cancel out the HP loss from rocks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 04:20:58 No.43539317 Report

Quoted By: >>43541017

>>43539283
Which is why stall has way more dedicated hazard control/removal than other team archetypes. Just a coincidence Sableye is the go-to mega and that stall also uses defoggers on top of Sableye because keeping hazards off the field is that important for stall.

Your bug and fire bros taking damage from Stealth Rock doesn't change that. You sound like you don't even play, every fucking playstyle "relies" on chip damage from rocks which is why HO, the complete antithesis of stall, has dedicated suicide leads with rocks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 04:24:19 No.43539332 Report

Quoted By: >>43541017

>>43539283
>Rocks literally are stall.
>When HO relies on rocks to guarantee specific 2hkos
There's a reason why the damage calculator factors stealth rock damage when checking for KOs.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1518140967067.png, 93KiB, 285x235

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 04:43:10 No.43539432 Report

Quoted By: >>43541017

>>43539283
>the thing that actively constrains how long a match can go is stall
>doing damage fatmons can't heal off by double switching with rocks up is stall
>reducing KO thresholds is stall
>anything short of brainless attack clicking is stall

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 04:53:34 No.43539475 Report

Quoted By: >>43541017

>>43539283
Literal negative iq post.
Rocks pressure the player that is in a defensive position, which stall is always going to be in.
Stall is the playstyle that switches the most, so stall hates having rocks up more than any other playstyle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 09:23:39 No.43541017 Report

Quoted By: >>43541638

>>43539317
>>43539332
>>43539432
>>43539475
coping stallfags

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 12:38:29 No.43541638 Report

Quoted By:

>>43541017
>>43539283
This is the average /vp/ sub 1300 elo shitter

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