/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #43886710

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/vgc/ - better than Clefable in this format edition

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 17:14:29 No.43886710 View View Reply Original Report

Old thread got lost in the sauce in my sleep.

>Why play VGC?
VGC is the official format of competitive Pokemon, with LAN tournaments that have cash prizes and more. The meta is generally very dynamic and balanced this year, with a new flavor of the month seemingly every month or so. LAN tournaments are on hiatus during the pandemic, and online tournaments happen on cartridge every month or so.

>Usage Statistics
https://www.pikalytics.com/
https://babiri.net/

>Resources
https://www.trainertower.com/vgc20-speed-tiers/
https://jake-white.github.io/VGC-Damage-Calculator/
https://www.pikalytics.com/team
https://marriland.com/tools/team-builder/

>News
https://victoryroadvgc.com/
https://trainertower.com/

>Official Rules
https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/2020-pokemon-video-game-championships-vgc-format-rules/

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 49547-15740872897835-800[1].jpg, 53KiB, 800x671

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 17:20:50 No.43886773 Report

Quoted By:

Hatterene is best VGC mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 17:49:07 No.43887052 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 18:00:06 No.43887176 Report

Quoted By: >>43887218

Since the new Coaching move sounds like it's for doubles, any theories?

>2 turn move like Fly
>on the turn they're off the field, they boost their partners Attack, Special Attack and Speed by 1

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 18:03:35 No.43887218 Report

Quoted By: >>43887269

>>43887176
>new Coaching move
Elaborate

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 18:08:32 No.43887269 Report

Quoted By: >>43887300 >>43888901

>>43887218
From the Home datamine a few weeks ago, we don't know anything about it, but I've seen it theorized as a tutor for fighting types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 18:11:16 No.43887300 Report

Quoted By:

>>43887269
Hmm, interesting. Maybe it could be some sort of move like Decorate? Not sure who would learn it though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 19:22:20 No.43888157 Report

Quoted By:

bump because everything is getting drown out by sinnoh spam

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 20:04:38 No.43888664 Report

Quoted By: >>43888943 >>43890408

What new/returning mons are you excited for?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 9f5.png, 984KiB, 800x720

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 20:25:00 No.43888901 Report

Quoted By:

>>43887269
They arent bringing Z moves back, are they?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 20:28:39 No.43888943 Report

Quoted By: >>43889524

>>43888664
Zororark (that is if he works right), Krookodile, and Kang. Last thread I mentioned Kang is the only Scrappy Fake Outer and might get some play based on that. Oh and arent we getting a returning dragon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 20:41:27 No.43889075 Report

Quoted By: >>43889524 >>43889581

Why do people sleep on Clefable? Sure it has less total bulk than Clef but if your opposing Cinderace gets off 3 Max Knuckles Clef literally ignores that. Imagine Dusc/Rhyperior gets off Trick Room and a Bulldoze to proct Weakness Pocily. Clefable does not give a shit about that and will eat a Rockfall like a bullet aimed at the president.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 21:24:01 No.43889524 Report

Quoted By:

>>43888943
Krook sounds dope

>>43889075
Clefable is generally worse than all of Indeedee, Clefairy, and Togekiss. And even arguably Togetic with Eviolite.
What you're talking about is a very niche situation that can just as easily be handled by Haze Dusclops which is the standard. Clefable is not as bulky as you think in this format which has Dynamaxing, Helping Hands, and Fake Tears. It also is worse offensively than Togekiss. Clefable has no niche to be viable in this format. Maybe if there was no Togekiss, I could see it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 21:26:50 No.43889558 Report

Quoted By: >>43889630 >>43890766

I want to use sigilyph for tailwind and gravity but I've never made a doubles team before

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 21:29:35 No.43889581 Report

Quoted By: >>43889932

>>43889075
Clefable doesn't have Friend Guard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 21:34:17 No.43889630 Report

Quoted By: >>43890184

>>43889558
It's weird but it could work. Abuse hypnosis with gravity. Gengar, Bronzong, Gothitelle, Alolan-Persian, Driffblim and Milotic could all be candidates depending on the team.

You could run a bulky offense Milotic with Hypnosis and Blunder Policy. You could spam Hypnosis without Gravity for the chance of sleep and get a speed buff if you miss. 2 Psychic types could be redundant, but Gothitelle is a great Pokemon with a lot of utility especially with an offensive Pokemon like Cinderace.

Go to https://www.pikalytics.com/team and plug in Sigilyph. It'll fill out other parts of your team with common partners and show you common sets.
Use babiri.net to see if anyone has made it work on high ladder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:02:30 No.43889932 Report

Quoted By: >>43890323 >>43890393

>>43889581
What good is friend guard when you're taking aggro with Follow Me 99% oof the time until Fairy dies? Friend Guard does not protect Clefairy so it's a little on the redundant side lest you aim to protect against spread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:24:43 No.43890184 Report

Quoted By: >>43890503

>>43889630
thanks a lot, anon!
sigilyph is my favourite Pokemon and I wanted to try a unique set for doubles to use it in a new way

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:36:13 No.43890323 Report

Quoted By:

>>43889932
If you've played a single game as or against Clefairy, you know how strong Friend Guard is. It's arguably the best supportive ability in the game. It's free screens on a partner just for existing.

Clefairy isn't especially bulky, but the ability more than makes up for it. Clefairy is something you have to remove quickly if it's sitting next to something threatening, such as Tyranitar, Excadrill, Dragapult, or Rotom after a Nasty Plot. The ability turns OHKO's into 2HKO's and 2HKO's into 3-4HKO's. It's very strong. As long as Clefairy can put it's partner in a good situation in about 2-3 turns, it's doing it's job.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:42:39 No.43890393 Report

Quoted By: >>43890479

>>43889932
Because a lot of people don't actually use Clef as Clef but as a Togekiss/Indeedee somewhat. If you have Heal Pulse/Life Dew on that little shit, Friend Guard suddendly becomes the best screens you can hope for but most teams want a quick use out of it and an answer for TR, making it look like Friend isn't actually that great since Clef dies fast in a such usage.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:43:50 No.43890408 Report

Quoted By: >>43890508 >>43890556 >>43890571

>>43888664
Zygarde!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:50:18 No.43890479 Report

Quoted By: >>43890541

>>43890393
Basically. The point is you put something threatening next to Clefairy and you Heal Pulse it or HH it. You use Follow Me sometimes if you think they could double into and KO the partner. It's even more bulky with Intimidate/Snarl support from say an Arcanine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:52:20 No.43890503 Report

Quoted By: >>43890581

>>43890184
Not anon but I created a team back that I lost I might just recreate one so I can help you out more on this but it really interesting and the Gravity gimmick can really be good with it. It's a fast Tailwind user and has great abilities. Milotic as a partner is almost a must, as well as a Lightning Rod user is you want to abuse of the Electric weakness of these two, either going for something like Raichu/Togedemaru as a Fake Out user or something more offensive and with good coverage moves like Manectric for example. Clefairy is also a good Pokemon with a natural access to Gravity who would pair well with the rest, being a nice answer for TR and with Friend Guard/Follow Me support. Then you either need something like G-Max Orbeetle to have another Gravity setter or just two strong Pokemon in the team who will enjoy having everything put to sleep. Having Rillaboom/Indeedee (Male or Female) as an option to stop Misty/Electric terrain is also a possibility and they can be good offensive options too.
I could go on and on but, basically, you have many ways for such a team to actually be good and interesting to play so go try to create one and tell us if you need some help.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:53:02 No.43890508 Report

Quoted By:

>>43890408
BASED Zygardeposter

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:56:09 No.43890541 Report

Quoted By:

>>43890479
Yeah, this. Last time I used one with Heal Pulse, a lot people I fought were not prepared when they saw the Dynamaxed Pokemon being healed so much, most felt the need to double the Clef to stop this and, with Protect, you can imagine how this can go. And when you have Intimidate and/or Snarl around the corner, it becomes easily a chore to fight it. It's an amazing support for sure when used correctly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:57:35 No.43890556 Report

Quoted By:

>>43890408
It is sad that its Perfect forme is only temporary

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 22:59:21 No.43890571 Report

Quoted By:

>>43890408
i love u anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 23:00:15 No.43890581 Report

Quoted By: >>43890623 >>43891098

>>43890503
love orbeetle so I'll lean heavily into the gravity gimmick

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 23:02:54 No.43890623 Report

Quoted By:

>>43890581
Same, his shiny color is also awesome and makes me want to try to pursue its Shiny G-Max form.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 23:14:16 No.43890766 Report

Quoted By: >>43890787

>>43889558
I love Siglyph but that combo seems flawed. Out of every Gravity user, why use the one that loses a type immunity in the process?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 23:16:20 No.43890787 Report

Quoted By: >>43890877

>>43890766
because it's cool

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 23:26:00 No.43890877 Report

Quoted By: >>43890937

>>43890787
Fair point.
Maybe go full into the cheese with Hustle Flapple with Grav Apple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 23:30:39 No.43890937 Report

Quoted By: >>43892164

>>43890877
I want to do this as a combo but the only worthy Gravity pair I can think of is Clef. Let's see if the new DLC gives us a move tutor and lets me get Sableye Prankster Gravitys again

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 23:41:35 No.43891098 Report

Quoted By: >>43891109

>>43890581
If you do so, you probably need Milotic and Rillaboom as partners. Orbeetle with Giga Drain and WP is your go to set, it's bulky enough to take hits and will gladly fuck with Ground and Rock types trying to Rock Slide it. The issue is you are still kinda weak to Cinderace, Durant, Charizard, etc... I would love to say to use Hustle Flapple with Grav Apple but it might not be the best with the weaknesses it had, even if I love the idea to use it in Gravity. Having a powerful Pokemon who can handle these might be key. You could go Hex Dragapult, it will love to one shot everything who sleeps, has access to many moves powerful enough to stop the big threats for your team.
Clefairy is a nice Sing/Gravity user who can stop TR for being a problem too so you can't put it on the side either.
You have many options so have fun trying them!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jun 2020 23:42:37 No.43891109 Report

Quoted By:

>>43891098
*the weaknesses it add

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 01:21:15 No.43892164 Report

Quoted By: >>43892667

>>43890937
By Clef I hope you mean Clefairy lol.

There's also Sing users. While not as good as Hypnosis under Gravity (100% hit rate), Sing has about 92% accuracy under Gravity which is still really good. Sleep Powder becomes 100% accurate as well.

Good Pokemon with access to Sing:
Primarina, Lapras, Clefairy,

Sleep Powder:
Venusaur and Roserade.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 02:16:49 No.43892667 Report

Quoted By: >>43892718

>>43892164
Huh. I never realized that Gravity boosts accuracy.
I thought it just made ground-immune mons able to be hit by ground moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 02:22:20 No.43892718 Report

Quoted By:

>>43892667
Yes, that's one of the main appeals of Gravity. It's why Hypnosis + Gravity is a thing. Gravity increases accuracy of moves by 5/3rds, which makes 60% moves 100% accurate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 02:34:30 No.43892788 Report

Quoted By: >>43895202

I feel like Bisharp is majorly slept on. Aside from Gengar, what have you guys seen work well with Bisharp?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 03:55:09 No.43893559 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 07:30:47 No.43895202 Report

Quoted By: >>43895255

>>43892788
What makes Bisharp so good in the current meta?
Other than the obvious, like Defiant when stat drops are everywhere because of Dynamax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 07:33:43 No.43895214 Report

Quoted By: >>43895447 >>43895677

DLC soon boys
Either we get fun new toys and the meta stays balanced, or Urshifu comes in and fucks us all up the ass for the next year. Here's hoping he doesn't enter dry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 07:40:45 No.43895255 Report

Quoted By:

f>>43895202
Defiant is great of course and that's a major part of it, but also typing and movepool. Speed is middling but good enough with some speed control.

Fast Icy Wind + Assurance hits fucking HARD. He threatens major meta threats with his offensive typing. Togekiss, Dragapult, Mimikyu, Dusclops, Primarina, and even TTar if he's carrying Brick Break are majorly threatened by Bisharp if he's put in the right position.

The issue is he's frail and not naturally fast, so he needs support to do well. He's not like Milotic who you can just slap on a team to scare off intimidates. Gengar+Bisharp is so strong because the synergy is really nice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 08:25:32 No.43895445 Report

Quoted By:

>>43886710
>new flavor of the month seemingly every month
do vgcucks actually

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 08:26:02 No.43895447 Report

Quoted By: >>43897025

>>43895214
Imagine if Unseen Fist goes through Max Guard.
Urshifu will be going in with no lube whatsoever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 09:04:55 No.43895677 Report

Quoted By: >>43897589

>>43895214
I'm just gonna call this now that Urshifu ends up way overhyped. To balance its ability t'll have an awkward slow speed with no priority moves, and will struggle if the meta stays as fairy/ghost focused as it currently is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:00:47 No.43897025 Report

Quoted By:

>>43895447
If it was specified for the Max version of the move but not the normal version of it, then it won't. Either way, it'll be a powerfull attack for sure and will be too broken for the meta to enjoy it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:53:57 No.43897589 Report

Quoted By:

>>43895677
People are going to play it like Dracovish, choice band/scarf with a team built to support it spamming that move. Gastrodon cucks water version out of existence and people aren't allowed to enjoy Dracovish as a result either.

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