/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #44239460

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Heavy Duty Boots

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 02:53:35 No.44239460 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>44239562 >>44239580 >>44239744 >>44239865 >>44240068 >>44240827 >>44240918 >>44241409 >>44241613 >>44241916 >>44242049 >>44242301 >>44242559 >>44242627 >>44242690 >>44245098 >>44246455

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/heavy-duty-boots.3667472/
Do you think Heavy Duty Boots were a good addition to the game?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:03:52 No.44239534 Report

Quoted By: >>44240119

Good? Try great! In singles, of course.

They've crushed the paradigm of completely relying on entry hazard to naturally manage offensive and defensive switches for you. The days of 'rocks up gg' are over. You now have to continually make plays and operate in a fashion where placing and stacking hazards may not provide the guarantee value that it always has in the past. I love it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:10:12 No.44239562 Report

Quoted By: >>44239584 >>44240264 >>44242038

>>44239460
I'm just glad ninjask and shedinja (and scyther and ledian and vespiquen and all the butterfly mons) don't just get punished for merely existing anymore. The higher competitive implications of boots are lost on me, other than that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:13:27 No.44239580 Report

Quoted By: >>44239625 >>44239780

>>44239460
Nobody should be able to click rocks and win, boots are a great and fair addition.
>JUST USE DEFOG
If rocks are that much of a non-issue why do you care that boots exist at all?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:13:56 No.44239584 Report

Quoted By: >>44239698

>>44239562
>Ledian
Ledian still is punished for existing. There has never been a kindness done to Ledian in all its existence and it makes me sad every time I think about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:20:45 No.44239625 Report

Quoted By: >>44239635

>>44239580
Why is /vp/ still filled with retards that think clicking Stealth Rock by itself is some kind of win button? You'd think they all run a team of 6 shitmon bugs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:21:30 No.44239635 Report

Quoted By: >>44239649 >>44239697 >>44239714 >>44240715

>>44239625
If it's not a win button then why do you care that boots exist? :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:23:30 No.44239649 Report

Quoted By: >>44239707 >>44241430

>>44239635
>move that consistently forces progress and pressures constant pivoting
>all that is denied

That's why, you bottom elo retard. You are so unfathomably bad at the game you genuinely still believe clicking rocks is some magic win the game button.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:31:25 No.44239697 Report

Quoted By: >>44239707 >>44239930

>>44239635
because it makes defensive play extremely safe and non-punishable in the long term.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:31:27 No.44239698 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239584
An indirect favor is still a favor. Even if it comes with a slap to the face called orbeetle. Ledian can only grow stronger, however long it might take.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:32:24 No.44239707 Report

>>44239649
>>44239697
So just run Knock-Off just like you always told people to run Defog. :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:32:58 No.44239714 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239635
>>44239707
rekt

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:36:27 No.44239744 Report

Quoted By: >>44239753 >>44239764 >>44239768 >>44239906

>>44239460
>>44239707
Have you ever actually played competetive?
This is the same as those "machop used karate chop" shitposts.
Something that doesn't want their item removed isn't gonna switch into/stay in on a knock off unless they're already in a compromised position that necessitates the sacrifice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:37:58 No.44239753 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239744
didn't mean to quote the OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:40:05 No.44239764 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239744
You mean just like how something with Defog isn't going to switch in on something with hazards to try and remove them when it can just set them again? Checkmate. :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:40:25 No.44239768 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239744

>has to work and make plays to have hazards provide consistent value

At this point you're just making me like boots more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:41:34 No.44239777 Report

Quoted By: >>44239819 >>44239848 >>44242496 >>44244571

>>44239707
Your epic emoticons don't change anything about the fact that you're clueless low elo shitter.

HDB have to be knocked off of a specific Pokemon. As opposed to hazards can always be removed at any time regardless of the target. On top of that they can also be prevented to go up in the first place by stuff like Taunt, Magic Bounce, Magic Coat or even just offensive pressure in general. Obviously not comparable and stop replying to yourself thinking you've won the argument when you started with something as embarrassingly stupid as "Nobody should be able to click rocks and win" as if that has ever been the case in any game ever that isn't between two mouthbreathers at the bottom of the ladder who use Butterfree, Charizard and Delibird.

Gonna stop replying to you now because I get the feeling you're the same idiot from other threats repeating the same inane bullshit over and over again and you obviouslylack the brain cells and the playing experience to comprehend anything that's said anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:41:52 No.44239780 Report

Quoted By: >>44239845

>>44239580
>If rocks are that much of a non-issue why do you care that boots exist at all?
This sums it up perfectly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:43:24 No.44239799 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239707
based. skill rocks were a mistake

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:44:51 No.44239819 Report

Quoted By: >>44239845

>>44239777
>Claims rocks aren't a problem in the metagame
>Gets THIS fucking salty over some fucking boots that let one Pokemon ignore it at the cost of their item slot
Yeah okay. If rocks weren't actually a problem none of you fucks would care.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:45:43 No.44239827 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239707
Perfect fucking response. Holy shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:48:34 No.44239841 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239707
absolutely destroys god damn

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:48:54 No.44239845 Report

Quoted By: >>44239862 >>44239945 >>44240102

>>44239780
>>44239819
Are you clinically retarded or something? Rocks are not a problem. That does not mean they are irrelevant. How fucking stupid do you have to be to think any relevant move is automatically some problem? Yes, entry hazards are widely used. Which is why HDB is such a good item. That does not mean that the response is "ummm I thought rocks don't matter :^^^^^^^) hehehehe I won"

It's like removing Hydro Pump from the game and suddenly every shitter on /vp/ says that Hydro Pump wasn't a problem anyway so why are you discussing the fact that it's removed. Yes, it's not a problem. It's still a relevant move in all sorts of metas.

Is /vp/ just filled with underage who simply don't understand competitive gameplay?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:49:11 No.44239848 Report

Quoted By: >>44239856

>>44239777
>Your epic emoticons don't change anything about the fact that you're clueless low elo shitter.
And your rage posts on a Taiwanese basket weaving blog don't change the fact that boots exist, are perfectly fair, and are here to stay. Have a nice evening, shitter. :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:50:13 No.44239853 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239707
This this this
So much this

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:50:37 No.44239856 Report

Quoted By: >>44239870

>>44239848
Says the guy on the board that has been eternally seething about the magic game winning rocks for like 10 years now. Very ironic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:51:53 No.44239862 Report

Quoted By: >>44239920

>>44239845
The problem here kiddo is for years people insisted rocks weren't a problem because they had counters. Guess what? The boots have counters too so there is no fucking problem with them. There's just as much risk associated with trying to Defog some rocks as there is with trying to knock-off some boots.
>B-B-BUT THEY WON'T STAY IN
Yeah and neither will their fucking hazard setter when I try to kill it. Same problem either way. Boots are fair.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:52:01 No.44239865 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239460
They were super annoying in the first month of release, maybe less than that.

now it just means that getting rocks up is less often part of a win condition. not hard to get the hang of lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:52:59 No.44239868 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
OHHHHHHHH
ROCKFAGS BTFO

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:53:22 No.44239870 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239856
I thought you were done replying? Don't you have some more games to lose to a Volcarona with some timbs on? :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:54:26 No.44239873 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
OH NO NO NO, HOW WILL SMOGONKEKS EVER RECOVER?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:55:16 No.44239876 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
You sir have won the internet for today.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1594130828920.png, 209KiB, 508x490

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:56:08 No.44239884 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 03:56:39 No.44239889 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
This is it. The greatest post of all time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:00:09 No.44239906 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239744
cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:00:19 No.44239908 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
BTFO

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:01:42 No.44239920 Report

Quoted By: >>44239925 >>44239942 >>44239969 >>44240015

>>44239862
Good thing in none of my posts I ever even said HDB is completely unfair. My initial post replied to some retard who insisted Stealth Rock is a game winning move. Anybody who genuinely believes that is so atrocious that he shouldn't be allowed to have opinions on the game in the first place, doesn't matter if it's related to boots or anything else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:02:46 No.44239925 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239920
>Anybody who genuinely believes that is so atrocious
My dude I can literally see your neckbeard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:04:11 No.44239930 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239697
>Punishes defensive play
>Only example in post is about preventing Volcarona from coming in and sweeping

Hmmmmm

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:05:56 No.44239942 Report

Quoted By: >>44240015

>>44239920
Post ELO

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:06:30 No.44239945 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239845
"ummm I thought rocks don't matter :^^^^^^^) hehehehe I won"
Yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:07:53 No.44239954 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
Fucking kek rockfags on suicide watch

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:11:33 No.44239967 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
Stop anon he's already dead

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:12:04 No.44239969 Report

Quoted By: >>44240039

>>44239920
>Good thing in none of my posts I ever even said HDB is completely unfair.
Lmao then why are your panties in such a bunch over them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:13:38 No.44239979 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
I love this so much.
>BUT THEN THEY ARE ALREADY SWITCHED IN
You mean just like how my defogger has to eat rock damage to come in?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:20:41 No.44240015 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239920
>>44239942
>Radio silence
Every fucking time man

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:21:22 No.44240021 Report

Quoted By: >>44240043 >>44240135

>Banning Dynamax
>Now want to ban boots
Why is every new addition this gen making Smogoncucks seethe like this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:23:33 No.44240039 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239969
You still haven't explained why you and the rest of the /vp/ experts have been seething about the evil rocks for 10 years. Me writing a couple of comments in one thread is not even remotely comparable to the eternal and never-ending seethe rocks has caused for ages now.

But you are right about one thing, I did say I would stop replying but I continued which is dumb of me. So I'm done for real now, have fun replying 20 times more to your epic comment and reposting the same non-sensical "observations" about the eternal rocks menace.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:24:15 No.44240043 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240021
cuz GF is a bad company and everything they introduce makes the game less fun

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1592942114387.png, 140KiB, 326x265

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:28:48 No.44240068 Report

Quoted By: >>44240085

>>44239460
>Volcaronachad since Gen 5
>mfw boots
Boy, sure feels good not to play by their autistic rules

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:29:00 No.44240070 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239707
fucking destroyed

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:31:47 No.44240085 Report

Quoted By: >>44240231 >>44241487

>>44240068
Pretty sure volcarona has always been good in smogon.
It's terrible in cart metas.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1594538803421.jpg, 114KiB, 980x893

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:33:41 No.44240091 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
based

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:35:04 No.44240102 Report

Quoted By: >>44242603

>>44239845
>Rocks are not a problem.
I shouldn't have to have a dedicated defogger just to use a certain mon I want for my team, fuck off, the boots are great.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:38:18 No.44240119 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239534
fpbp

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:42:18 No.44240134 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
AHAHAHA ROCKNIGGERS BTFO

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:42:19 No.44240135 Report

Quoted By: >>44240143 >>44240152

>>44240021
>literally says they dont wanna ban boots in the OP
>WHY OMGOM BAN BOOT?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:44:22 No.44240143 Report

Quoted By: >>44240350

>>44240135
>First reply calls for the boots to be banned
I see through their doubletalk
>We don't WANT to ban the boots but we HAVE to
If they weren't ready to do it, they wouldn't make a thread. I know their type. Anything that changes the way the game is played in a major way is threat that must be eliminated.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ban the boots.png, 133KiB, 720x913

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 04:46:02 No.44240152 Report

Quoted By: >>44240350 >>44241371 >>44241551

>>44240135

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:02:11 No.44240231 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240085
Volcarona is niche but can work in doubles with support

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:03:17 No.44240237 Report

Quoted By: >>44240259

How the hell are people defending boots?
They're not a wincon in and of themselves, but a way to punish switching and prevent endless switchfests.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:10:01 No.44240259 Report

Quoted By: >>44240293 >>44240294 >>44240315 >>44241234 >>44241483

>>44240237
Yeah dude because people are running boots over lefties on their stallmons so they can switch more right? Oh wait no it’s for offensive Pokemon like Charizard and Volcarona that otherwise need too much team support to not be 2hkod by a move used 30 turns ago

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:11:00 No.44240264 Report

Quoted By: >>44240309 >>44245056

>>44239562
Those mins still suck shit though. It’s isnt like regenerator ho-oh with roost and hdb being able to really make its presence stronger.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:13:44 No.44240279 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239707
Nice one anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:15:55 No.44240293 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240259
>Yeah dude because people are running boots over lefties on their stallmons so they can switch more right?
Yes that's absolutely correct.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:15:59 No.44240294 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240259
And charizard is still shit though and volcorona still was ou in sm. Incineriar eould actually be a way better example because it can intimidate and pivot much safer in UU with it.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1594701654146.png, 330KiB, 640x480

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:16:11 No.44240296 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
Absolutely based, Anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:21:35 No.44240309 Report

Quoted By: >>44242549

>>44240264
>Those mins still suck shit though
But they suck a little less now, and that's what's important. I couldn't give less of a damn about ho-oh though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:22:33 No.44240315 Report

Quoted By: >>44240359

>>44240259
but people ARE using boots on stallmons
things that have regenerator or recover can now swap in with 0 risk because things that would normally eat shit after hazard damage can now ignore smogon stones, spikes and tox spikes
the top abusers of boots are basically
>1, things with innate recovery
>2, bulky pivots that dont like entry damage
>3, spinners who arent forced to get bonked before they can spin/defog/court change the hazards
>4, lategame cleaners that dont want their sweep ruined by some fucking pebbles placed down last turn

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:27:45 No.44240336 Report

Quoted By: >>44241434

>>44239707
Damn son. ABSOLUTE rekt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:32:28 No.44240350 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240152
>>44240143
>>First reply calls for the boots to be banned
Compare the reactions to that post to the reactions the anti-ban posts received

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:34:23 No.44240359 Report

Quoted By: >>44240372

>>44240315
I just checked Pikalytics, the only remotely stally thing running boots in OU is mandibuzz

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:35:58 No.44240372 Report

Quoted By: >>44240395

>>44240359
pikalytics is ladder stats and ladder is irrelevant

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:42:16 No.44240395 Report

Quoted By: >>44240411

>>44240372
So you’re getting your info from...?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 05:46:07 No.44240411 Report

Quoted By: >>44240511

>>44240395
world cup

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 06:07:37 No.44240511 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240411
I’m not playing the “one or two guys are doing this so it’s OP” game, unless you show me all or most players involved doing it I don’t care

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 06:45:23 No.44240715 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239635
Because I care more about Spikes than Stealth Rock.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 07:11:16 No.44240827 Report

Quoted By: >>44240877 >>44242683

>>44239460
This is probably going to boil to a suspect that ultimately doesn't pass, probably by a fair margin (30-40% ban) because it's really not a broken item, but it does signal a pretty intense paradigm shift. Just like how teambuilding was never the same after Stealth Rock, teambuilding will never be the same after Heavy Duty Boots. There's not really a reason to shy away from it for the same reasons Stealth Rock has been accepted into the game for over a decade now. Fire, Bug, and Ice types being worse than every other type by default thanks to Rocks has honestly been one of the biggest failings of the game, and now that it's been corrected, I can't see a valid reason why anyone would go back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 07:26:52 No.44240877 Report

Quoted By: >>44241387 >>44241459

>>44240827
>I can't see a valid reason why anyone would go back.
Absolutely no one enjoys how the meta has shifted to be so defensive and safe.
Heavy Duty Boots is not the sole reason for that, but few want to admit that it's a very big part of it because of muh bug types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 07:40:56 No.44240918 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239460
The anti-ban arguments in the linked thread summed it up better than me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 07:44:51 No.44240936 Report

Quoted By:

I would rather have Fairy-type rocks that don't stack with regular ones to add variety to sneaky pebbles, but this is fine too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 08:30:41 No.44241118 Report

Quoted By:

Boots are fine, though I still strongly agree about the annoyance of overly defensive and safe play. But in that case, why are you blaming boots when leftovers exists? On a pokemon neutral to rocks, leftovers migitates the same damage in 2 turns and then provides continuous value especially when coupled with recovery moves. One of the reasons why pokemon with regenerator can run boots is because they don't rely on leftovers as much. Many defensive pokemon that are neutral to rocks still choose to go for leftovers instead, such as corviknight and toxapex, because they don't feel like giving up a highly valuable item for a somewhat situational one. And rocks are not the only thing preventing overly defensive counterplay, keep in mind that switching in most cases means that means that you are taking a move for free, and thus getting chipped anyways. So boots are still balanced, and it helps more mons be viable so it shouldn't be banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 09:02:58 No.44241234 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240259
Charizard is shit and Volcarona was already good before HDB.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 09:12:42 No.44241253 Report

Quoted By: >>44242728

Absolutely, the fact steath rocks can completely invalidate certain type combo's is ridiculous. Personally
think it's one of GF's Biggest mistakes.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Omastar_IL046.png, 1MiB, 1174x881

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 09:27:32 No.44241310 Report

Quoted By: >>44241344

That pro-ban post is some of the most retarded shit I've ever read.
Imagine wanting to ban something for making Rapidash and Rotom-Fan viable in NU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 09:40:18 No.44241344 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241310
Thankfully no one else (including people actually in charge of tiers) seem to agree with him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 09:47:12 No.44241371 Report

Quoted By: >>44241577 >>44241640

>>44240152
>hazards damage is an integral part of the game
no its not you fucking stallshitter mouthbreather
these are the same people that wanted to disallow team preview when BW came out

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 09:51:45 No.44241387 Report

Quoted By: >>44241410

>>44240877
Wow its almost like every single tiering decision smogon made this gen directly contributed to that exact state of the meta. You’ve made your bed, now lie in it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 09:58:29 No.44241409 Report

Quoted By: >>44241417

>>44239460
I think they should let the boots stay for another 6 months, and THEN return to the topic.
Meta and movesets would change taking boots into account, and then we would be able to see how things really are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 09:58:38 No.44241410 Report

Quoted By: >>44241558

>>44241387
How?
Darm and Dracovish ban both slightly helped fix the issue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 09:59:52 No.44241417 Report

Quoted By: >>44241419

>>44241409
Fuck you and your kind for ruining gen 7 with this retarded way of thinking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:01:28 No.44241419 Report

Quoted By: >>44242743

>>44241417
>muh strategy i read in the internet don't work because of stupid boots!!!
>What do you mean think for myself? Ban the damn booots!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:09:06 No.44241430 Report

Quoted By: >>44242561 >>44242740

>>44239649
>you genuinely still believe clicking rocks is some magic win the game button.
It's not an autowin, but sneaky pebbles invalidates fire, ice, and bug types from ever being able to really do much.
Since it was envisioned as a "spikes that hurt flying types" I don't mind it hurting them, but the other three have it bad enough as it is without losing 1/4 to 1/2 of your HP just from entering the field.
Well, at least Ice and Bug types anyways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:10:05 No.44241434 Report

Quoted By: >>44241766 >>44241893

>>44239868
>>44239873
>>44239876
>>44239884
>>44239889
>>44239908
>>44239954
>>44239967
>>44239979
>>44240091
>>44240134
>>44240296
>>44240336
>samefagging this hard

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:18:19 No.44241459 Report

Quoted By: >>44241473 >>44241497

>>44240877
>Absolutely no one enjoys how the meta has shifted to be so defensive and safe.
Maybe stop banning offense style mons and ban some of the cancerous stallmons? But then that would hurt stall and change the meta to stop being stall focused.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:21:26 No.44241473 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241459
anon stall isn't viable currently
and the dracovishban was absolutely a huge buff for offensive teams

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:24:17 No.44241483 Report

Quoted By: >>44241701

>>44240259
People are running boots in Blissey, Mandibuzz, Shedinja and Xatu
>yeah dude because people are running boots over lefties on their stallmons so they can switch more right?
yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:24:40 No.44241487 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240085
>terrible in cart metas
Volc was great in gen 6 battle spot singles and had a viable niche as a flame body redirector.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:26:23 No.44241497 Report

Quoted By: >>44241550

>>44241459
the only defensive mon that would even warrant a discussion on a ban is Toxapex. Do you unironically think that Blissey should be banned?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:29:01 No.44241506 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239707
BASED

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:47:13 No.44241550 Report

Quoted By: >>44241581

>>44241497
>Do you unironically think that Blissey should be banned?
Of course not. But Toxapex and Ferrothorn have been a cancer that never get banned for years now. And I'm confident that they never will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:47:35 No.44241551 Report

Quoted By: >>44241640

>>44240152
>name that rhymes with labia
>random capitalised exclamation as title
>first sentence is written in all lower case
>dumb avatar

Could someone reek any more of a stall faggot?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:50:00 No.44241558 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241410
They fixed jackshit. One look at WCOP replays makes that clear enough, and thats despite a bunch of offensive threats being introduced all at once mid June. The only thing Dracovish ban contributed was booting Seismitoad out of OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:58:01 No.44241576 Report

Quoted By: >>44241591

While I don't think boots are broken per se, it's really irritating to knock off something you'd normally expect to have a recovery or boosting item, only to find that you haven't actually crippled them unless you're running rocks / hazards yourself. But then there's a bigger problem where most rockers are weak to common HDB users (Marowak weak to Mandibuzz, Ferrothorn and fire types, Clefable and even Chansey risk being overwhelmed by Nasty Plot Rotom-H, Cinderace kills the latter as well)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:58:05 No.44241577 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241371
Hazards hurt stall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 10:59:17 No.44241581 Report

Quoted By: >>44241584

>>44241550
No point banning them with Heatran on the way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:00:37 No.44241584 Report

Quoted By: >>44241622

>>44241581
You just named the third in the core.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:03:34 No.44241591 Report

Quoted By: >>44241600 >>44241640 >>44244850

>>44241576
>Clefable and even Chansey
Neither would be running HDB anyway. Clefable is rarely without leftovers because Magic Guard is a built in HDB. And Chansey needs Evolite to function; not to mention at having 50M HP makes the chip from sneaky pebbles meaningless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:05:58 No.44241600 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241591
Read it again, Clefable and Chansey are rock users, not boot users.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:12:29 No.44241613 Report

Quoted By: >>44241617

>>44239460
>Traps
>Weather
>Defog
>Pursuit
>Knock off
>Abilities
They’ve changed the game but didn’t break it like Dynamax. Keep HDB, anyone wanting to ban it are either stall fags or panicking that they can’t deal SE damage anymore by placing rocks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:13:24 No.44241617 Report

Quoted By: >>44241648 >>44241682

>>44241613
Stall makes the best use of the boots. Any regenerator mon can now freely switch around while ignoring all forms of chip.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:14:07 No.44241622 Report

Quoted By: >>44241631

>>44241584
But Heatran isn't a stall mon like those two, as it lacks any recovery outside leftovers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:14:43 No.44241627 Report

Quoted By:

rocks are good and so are boots

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:15:13 No.44241631 Report

Quoted By: >>44241663

>>44241622
>ferrothorn
>stall mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:17:45 No.44241640 Report

Quoted By: >>44244773

>>44241371
>>44241551
>hazards damage isn't one of the best ways to pressure stall

>>44241591
>Chansey doesn't care about percent-based entry hazard damage because it has a lot of HP when HDB Blissey has been exploding in popularity

This board really is something else. /vp/ probably believes Aurora Veil is a stall move since it reduces damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:21:00 No.44241648 Report

Quoted By: >>44241652

>>44241617
>Trick Toxic Orb
>Gastro Acid
It’s a double edge sword if you ban it. Mons will drop usage and stall mons can’t recover safely. Smogon will need to ban HDB to each individual mon consider to be stall, but because they’re lazy and want to do it in one swoop, it will be a decision based vote.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:22:25 No.44241652 Report

Quoted By: >>44241676

>>44241648
Banning anything on a per-mon basis is an extremely slippery slope.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:26:43 No.44241663 Report

Quoted By: >>44241673 >>44247790

>>44241631
It frequently uses Leech Seed + Protect to fuck with you, almost always carrys Stealth Rock as its form of doing chip, and most have Thunder Wave so it counts on you not even being able to move. It's also incredibly fat and you won't be killing it unless you have a fire type move or focus miss.

How is that not stall?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:29:05 No.44241673 Report

Quoted By: >>44241679

>>44241663
No reliable recovery.
It's not used on stall teams.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:30:04 No.44241676 Report

Quoted By: >>44241688

>>44241652
>Stealth rock took over 4 generations
>Defog didn't slow it down
>”SR isn’t problematic, Just run defog”
>HDB exists, the best item in the game made since leftovers
>Reeeee, ban it! It invalidate my traps
>Wanting to think of banning HDB in a meta where SR took over and Knock off exists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:30:29 No.44241679 Report

Quoted By: >>44241681 >>44247790

>>44241673
>Leech Seed + Protect
>one of the best defensive pokemon that's also immune to toxic is not used on stall teams

ok retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:32:16 No.44241681 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241679
Leech Seed is not reliable by any stretch of the imagination.
>>one of the best defensive pokemon that's also immune to toxic is not used on stall teams
Yes. It's not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:32:26 No.44241682 Report

Quoted By: >>44242785 >>44242902

>>44241617
Bullshit. Regenerators barely ever use boots
See for yourself.
smogon.com/stats/2020-06-DLC1/moveset/gen8ou-1695.txt

>Toxapex
> Black Sludge 82.798%
> Rocky Helmet 9.910%
>Leftovers 1.996%
>Nothing 1.460%

>Slowbro
>Rocky Helmet 36.821%
>Heavy-Duty Boots 16.715%
>Leftovers 15.107%
>Nothing 14.271%
>Kasib Berry 9.366%
>Colbur Berry 5.170%

>Tangrowth
>Rocky Helmet 73.850%
>Assault Vest 20.732%
>Leftovers 2.896%

>Amoonguss
>Black Sludge 47.244%
>Rocky Helmet 41.976%
>Leftovers 4.549%
>Assault Vest 3.868%

HDB benefit offensive teams far more than they benefit stall. There's a reason people are talking about Volcarona and Cinderace and not Slowbro.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:34:17 No.44241688 Report

Quoted By: >>44241702 >>44241903 >>44242562

>>44241676
>and Knock off exists.
>switch out boots user
>it gets to keep boots
>it gets to switch back in indefinitely

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:38:24 No.44241701 Report

Quoted By: >>44247822 >>44248167

>>44241483
Digging deep for those shitmons huh

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:38:26 No.44241702 Report

Quoted By: >>44241704

>>44241688
>Something has to come in and take knock off each time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:39:01 No.44241704 Report

Quoted By: >>44241708

>>44241702
Knock Off is weaker with no item.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:39:50 No.44241708 Report

Quoted By: >>44241711

>>44241704
the other thing still has to eat these entry hazards you're so concerned with and knock off damage still isn't negligible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:42:09 No.44241711 Report

Quoted By: >>44242060

>>44241708
It's negligible if I have a Tangrowth.
>252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 120-143 (29.7 - 35.3%) -- 18.1% chance to 3HKO

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 11:56:20 No.44241766 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241434
>t-they're just samefagging!
Pathetic.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 12:27:08 No.44241893 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241434
damn... you got me...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 12:31:04 No.44241903 Report

Quoted By: >>44241924

>>44241688
>Keeps switching
>Hey where are all of my items?
>Atleast I have my HDB. Right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 12:38:30 No.44241916 Report

Quoted By: >>44242795

>>44239460
Heavy Duty Boots allows us to not heavily rely on moves that removes traps and not risk a mon from a suicidal switch.
Stall mons rely on recovery abilities and items than worrying about hazards.
Defog didn’t invalidate SR. Just use knock off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 12:40:32 No.44241924 Report

Quoted By: >>44242035 >>44242060

>>44241903
The strongest Knock Off in the game only barely does more than what Regenerator restores on Tangrowth. It can keep taking them.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO a4e.png, 66KiB, 1526x556

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 12:48:56 No.44241983 Report

Quoted By: >>44241995 >>44242112

>"hazards don't hurt stall"
The most retarded newfag take I've been seeing running around these days.

I wonder where were all you fags when smogon was using every trick in the book to avoid a Mega Sableye ban in gen 6 to benefit stall until the last days of the tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 12:51:25 No.44241995 Report

Quoted By: >>44244783

>>44241983
Back then people just said Smogon loved hyper offense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 12:57:45 No.44242035 Report

Quoted By: >>44242046

>>44241924
>Loses leftovers
So problem solved. If you can force your opponent to switch into a defogger, magic guard, or spinner, you can switch in to a bulky mon who can take knock offs

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 12:58:06 No.44242038 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239562
>Ledian
Anon...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 12:58:49 No.44242046 Report

Quoted By: >>44242483

>>44242035
>>Loses leftovers
Nigger, do you know what Regenerator does?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 12:59:36 No.44242049 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239460
>made all these offensive and defensive weak to stealth rocks pivots viable
Amazing addition

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1594486379437.jpg, 127KiB, 565x492

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 13:01:35 No.44242060 Report

Quoted By: >>44242233

>>44241711
>>44241924

Then make the play and call the Tangrowth switch.

Geez, its almost like the guaranteed value of hazard-stacking isn't so guaranteed anymore and a play-style that depends on hazards to reliably manage offensive and defensive switches for you isn't so reliable anymore.

If your team can't pull off something as basic as punishing a switch by itself then it is either poorly constructed or the opponent has apparently outplayed you to the point that they've achieved their win condition via Tangrowth. Both would be your fault, not HDB. And no, don't give me a 'but HDB made getting to that wincon unduly easy for the oppo and unduly hard for me to punish!'. I simply don't believe the item is that good. It does nothing outside of a hazard-stacking meta, which is why we're talking about it in a strictly smogon singles 6v6 context to begin with. That being the case, maybe its time for smogon 6v6 to evolve into something that is HDB aware.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 13:13:00 No.44242112 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241983
It doesn't matter what you say, the morons on this board will never understand that stall is clearly the playstyle most threatened by entry hazards. They think because stall has good hazard control that hazards don't matter to them when literally the reason they have so much hazard control and removal in the first place is because they're so worried about hazards. Not to mention that they see stall teams use entry hazards too (when every single playstyle ever uses them) and think the stallfags are out to get their offensive bros like Charizard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 13:33:30 No.44242233 Report

Quoted By: >>44242269

>>44242060
>maybe its time for smogon 6v6 to evolve into something that is HDB aware.
It already has, and most people are fine with it. Only a few vocal retards like the first reply in the thread (that no one else has agreed with) think it is something that needs to be dealt with. By the way Cinderace is still broken without Boots,

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 13:39:59 No.44242269 Report

Quoted By: >>44242527

>>44242233
Cinderaces stat spread is way too optimized for how good his moves are, I only play VGc and still hate it. Doesn’t help that it looks faggy as hell

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 13:45:43 No.44242301 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239460
They're fine, the people that complain about the boots are the same people that use nothing but clefable cookie cutters and doesn't complain about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:18:49 No.44242483 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242046
Yes. I’m also aware that some sets use leftovers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:21:17 No.44242496 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239777
Jesus, someone’s mad ell oh ell

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:26:57 No.44242527 Report

Quoted By: >>44242538

>>44242269
for vgc try weezing. cind doesn't like getting stuck as a bad type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:28:25 No.44242538 Report

Quoted By: >>44242551

>>44242527
My team has Inceleon already I just fingerbang it with superior speed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:29:42 No.44242549 Report

Quoted By: >>44242762

>>44240309
>But they suck a little less now
They really don’t

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:29:55 No.44242551 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242538
that works too. good luck in continued fights against the rabbit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:31:10 No.44242559 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239460
Itt: Rockfags assblasted that anyone shittalks their "unique" strategy

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:31:14 No.44242561 Report

Quoted By: >>44242614

>>44241430
>sneaky pebbles invalidates fire, ice, and bug types from ever being able to really do much.
They really don’t

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:31:17 No.44242562 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241688
>lose item on another mon
>lose momentum, and a turn by switching
Not a great strat

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:36:51 No.44242603 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240102
Which you don’t even have to do in some cases. And even then so what? Hazard control is so splashable that you don’t even lose a lot unless you’re a literal retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:37:44 No.44242614 Report

Quoted By: >>44242643 >>44242685 >>44242813

>>44242561
Invalidates? No. Makes their typing a big con? Yes.
Just look at what happened to Volcarona as soon as it was unchained from its weakness to rocks

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:39:13 No.44242627 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239460
They are nice since Entry Hazards don't completely centralize everything to begin with but you should always keep in mind can show up. So yeah, they are a good addition

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:41:03 No.44242643 Report

Quoted By: >>44242659

>>44242614
Oh nooooo it's a moderately common OU mon everyone run

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:42:42 No.44242659 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242643
So Im right? Thanks anon!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:45:33 No.44242683 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240827
>Fire, Bug, and Ice types being worse than every other type by default thanks to Rocks has honestly been one of the biggest failings of the game
Which never happened

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:45:49 No.44242685 Report

Quoted By: >>44242694

>>44242614
>Volcarona as an example of a Pokemon held back too much by SR

Every time. People who have never played OU before sure love bringing up a Pokemon that was already perfectly viable without boots.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:46:30 No.44242690 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239460
They’re fairly useless. Not enough people use SR to justify running it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:47:05 No.44242694 Report

Quoted By: >>44242706 >>44242740

>>44242685
Its almost like I said it fucking DOESNT invalidate it you stupid faggot. If you think SR wasn't a massive con to using Volc you've never played the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:48:24 No.44242706 Report

Quoted By: >>44242715

>>44242694
It was. Now it's not. Volcarona didn't become horribly broken as a result, it's just common.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:49:29 No.44242715 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242706
So Im right again, thanks retard
>Volcarona didn't become horribly broken as a result
Never said it was broken, but good to know you can't read

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:50:49 No.44242728 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241253
>Absolutely, the fact steath rocks can completely invalidate certain type combo's is ridiculous.
Good thing it never happened
>Personally think it's one of GF's Biggest mistakes
Its almost like they don’t balance the game around 6v6

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:51:45 No.44242740 Report

Quoted By: >>44242750

>>44242694
You are the faggot who said your bugbros are held back too much by rocks >>44241430
and then your first example is a Pokemon that isn't held back by them and now is just more braindead to use. Keep backpedalling and pretending that boots make irrelevant bug shitmons relevant as if rocks are the reason they suck in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:52:00 No.44242743 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241419
What did he mean by this?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:54:03 No.44242750 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242740
Not me faggot, but nice try deflecting from the actual argument which is that rocks don't hurt certain typings
Seethe more

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:55:51 No.44242762 Report

Quoted By: >>44242802

>>44242549
They don't?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 14:59:29 No.44242785 Report

Quoted By: >>44242808

>>44241682
Anon, people are talking about World Cup usage and Tours

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:01:02 No.44242795 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241916
>Defog didn’t invalidate SR.
Yeah, but it made them much more manageable

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:02:04 No.44242802 Report

Quoted By: >>44244719

>>44242762
No

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:02:48 No.44242808 Report

Quoted By: >>44242835

>>44242785
Post some fucking STATS I’m not doing your fucking research for you

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:03:05 No.44242813 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242614
>Makes their typing a big con?
No

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:06:31 No.44242833 Report

Quoted By:

>Tier leaders in that thread talk about the impact boots had on the game but their examples of "boots is broken" are completely unrelated to HDB
Case in point, RU. Turns out that Centiskorch has like a powerful movepool and knock off is always guaranteed
>That other comment about "it doesn't constrain the team builder because mons with boots have to choose between hitting hard with Life Orb/Specs/whatever choiced item or be safe against hazards and not secure 2hko's on fat walls)

The worst thing boots does is enable Volt-Turn to be nigh unpunishable (rocky helmet users/ferrothorn can be managed by getting hardcore and pull double switches) and make Volcarona an absolute threat, but the issue is that the former is enabled because Cinderace is a stupidly good mon wtih the limited dex in SSOU and the latter is Volc being Volc.
That said, Boots doesn't protect you from status and Volc really wishes to run Lum Berry or T.Wave landing = dead moth

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:06:47 No.44242835 Report

Quoted By: >>44242921

>>44242808
The thread in the OP literally said HDB surpassed Leftovers in usage in World Cup

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:16:14 No.44242894 Report

Quoted By: >>44242919 >>44242950

Will be fun to watch half this thread change their opinion once the genies are re-introduced and Torn-T starts running HDB almost exclusively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:17:49 No.44242902 Report

Quoted By: >>44243143 >>44246945

>>44241682
1% of people are running no item on Toxapex? Why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:21:08 No.44242919 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242894
You can just ban Tornadus-T, you know, considering it gets Nasty Plot now it's probably something that would need to be done regardless, like a Cinderace ban.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:21:19 No.44242921 Report

Quoted By: >>44242942

>>44242835
On which pokemon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:24:03 No.44242942 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242921
Pokémon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:24:44 No.44242950 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242894
My ice and bug bros like Abomasnow and Crustle are finally OU viable with boots now so I don't care

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:24:47 No.44242951 Report

Quoted By: >>44244313

ban the fucking pebbles

I have been saying this since 2006; this move is fucking stupid and should go.

The main point of my argument I guess is that like Shadow Tag/Arena Trap they remove an integral part of the game: being able to switch out. From RBY switching out has played an important role in avoiding chip damage from otherwise extremely problematic foes. Pebbles just takes away this option for counterplay entirely, and much like the previously mentioned abilities, there's very little you can actually do to circumvent this.

From an OU perspective: Aerodactyl would not have been nearly as problematic as it was in the eyes of many had Pebbles not existed. One of the two main reasons people hated it was because you couldn't punish it for spamming Pebbles with Taunt because of its speed and its own Taunt. It's also just significantly harder to actually avoid damage onto Pokemon like Gyarados, Togekiss, and Dragonite because of Pebbles, and while none of these would be anywhere near banworthy without Pebbleso, they do show the impact of Pebbles on gameplay and the overall metagame. Azelf would legitimately be unviable without this move. Aerodactyl would be much worse without it. Bronzong... would probably be around the same. Even looking at other tiers though Pebbles have played a huge part into why Pokemon have been deemed broken, and sure you can just chalk this up as the game evolving, but I find that argument poor because then why ban Pokemon that became broken because of the Physical-Special Split? The game's just evolving; adapt play.

I will admit that my primary argument is based on the assumption being able to switch in is as integral to a Pokemon battle as trying to avoid damage, which is definitely the case (literal mechanic that is always an optional part of the battle). But I think as generations have gone by we've seen that being able to switch out is considered core and that entry hazards are invalidating this game's important strategy element.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 15:55:03 No.44243143 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242902
They made a new team and forgot to add one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 16:29:17 No.44243345 Report

Quoted By: >>44244302

>ban item because it makes life in ou hard
>none of the tiers below it have had any problems with it whatsoever
>the "ou council" doesn't ban the pokémon
i thought smogon was smart, what happened?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 18:56:21 No.44244302 Report

Quoted By:

>>44243345
Read the post.
Timbs aren't being banned and they have no plans to do so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 18:57:27 No.44244313 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242951
Shadow Tag and Arena Trap stop switching entirely.
Pebbles just punish switching, and keep your opponent from doing it endlessly with no downside.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:12:58 No.44244441 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239707
tango down

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:16:14 No.44244473 Report

Quoted By:

Based Timbs chads BTFOing sneaky pebblets

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:27:42 No.44244571 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239777
It's pretty obvious who's going to be using boots. If our spinner/defogger gets KO'd we can't do anything about hazards, so it's completely comparable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:30:11 No.44244605 Report

Quoted By: >>44244649 >>44244667 >>44244765

boots are broken but only on flying types
why wasn't it restricted to Grounded Pokemon? so stupid

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:34:37 No.44244649 Report

Quoted By:

>>44244605
>Flying types don't have feet

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:36:07 No.44244667 Report

Quoted By: >>44244684 >>44244709

>>44244605
Why should rocks even affect Flying types who can just fly above them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:38:14 No.44244684 Report

Quoted By: >>44244724 >>44244758

>>44244667
they are suspended in the air apparently, which is why wearing boots should have no effect

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:40:29 No.44244709 Report

Quoted By:

>>44244667
The whole point of them is punishing those bastards immune to spikes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:41:01 No.44244719 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242802
Ah

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:41:35 No.44244724 Report

Quoted By: >>44244734 >>44244765

>>44244684
>Being in the air means boots magically don't work somehow
Anon, we need to have a long talk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:42:12 No.44244734 Report

Quoted By: >>44244776 >>44244790

>>44244724
The rocks are suspended in the air.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:44:44 No.44244758 Report

Quoted By: >>44244780

>>44244684
by the same logic flying types using roost should become vulnerable to hazards on that turn and be grounded by sticky web
that's fucking stupid

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:45:23 No.44244765 Report

Quoted By: >>44244776

>>44244605
They should have just made boots reduce hazard damage to something really low like 6%.
Complete immunity is cancer.
>>44244724
Well they aren't stepping on the rocks.
Boots protecting you from stepping on spikes makes sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:47:07 No.44244773 Report

Quoted By: >>44244850

>>44241640
>Chansey doesn't care about percent-based entry hazard damage because it has a lot of HP when HDB Blissey has been exploding in popularity
>This board really is something else. /vp/ probably believes Aurora Veil is a stall move since it reduces damage.
>Chansey
>Blissey
truly you are the biggest of brians on this board. (And yes, I meant Brians.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:47:22 No.44244776 Report

Quoted By:

>>44244734
>>44244765
Okay, fair enough then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:47:53 No.44244780 Report

Quoted By:

>>44244758

The explanation for that could be that they are very mindful of where they roost and avoid the hazards on the ground.

Of course, moves that smack down flying or levitating opponents should apply grounded hazard if we follow that logic, because it is an uncontrolled landing. But you know how GF is. Thoughtless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:48:23 No.44244783 Report

Quoted By: >>44244796

>>44241995
No one has ever said that ever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:49:42 No.44244790 Report

Quoted By:

>>44244734
then why would the levitating rocks be stopped by putting boots on your feet?
if anything it makes more sense on flying types

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:51:01 No.44244796 Report

Quoted By: >>44244807

>>44244783
That's because you're new here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:52:21 No.44244807 Report

Quoted By:

>>44244796
Stupid covid has made summer never end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 19:56:41 No.44244850 Report

Quoted By: >>44245220

>>44244773
Get some reading comprehension, ESL.

Originally this retard >>44241591
claimed that Chansey doesn't care much about "the chip from sneaky pebbles" because it has "50M HP".

Which is completely non-sensical as entry hazards do percent-based damage. Then I explained that Chansey cares so much about entry hazard damage that people have elected to run HDB Blissey instead. Obviously if you're not running Eviolite then Blissey is the better choice by default.

Do you understand now or do you need another english lesson?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 20:22:42 No.44245056 Report

Quoted By:

>>44240264
>Those mins still suck shit though
Shedinja has always had niche use in Ubers and Scyther with Duel Wing Beat is a fucking beast.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 20:24:14 No.44245069 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239707
Rock niggers will never ever recover

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 20:28:04 No.44245098 Report

Quoted By: >>44245169

>>44239460
Yes, that being said, Cinderace should be banned for now and retested when "Le Genie of a Balanced Meta" comes back

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 20:37:55 No.44245169 Report

Quoted By: >>44246066

>>44245098
Just wait, they are going to give an ice move to Cinderace in the next dlc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 20:44:06 No.44245220 Report

Quoted By: >>44245264

>>44244850
>Which is completely non-sensical as entry hazards do percent-based damage.
It is not though. I'm not him, but it seems you fail to understand that when you have 300HP and lose 12.5% you have 272HP left, when you have 600HP and lose 12.5% you have 525HP left, so even though your loss is the same percentage, with bigger pool it is less harmful for you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 20:50:36 No.44245264 Report

Quoted By: >>44245797

>>44245220
What matters is effective HP, Chansey has low defense so each point of HP is worth less effective health. However SR's damage ignores all defenses entirely, so since most of Chansey's HP value is in the HP stat itself it's hurt more than a Pokemon whose effective HP is tied more to its defense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 22:28:07 No.44245797 Report

Quoted By:

>>44245264
If it's percentage-based, it's not about your maximum HP or your defense, as it ignores both. It's about your ability to recover.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 23:04:59 No.44246066 Report

Quoted By:

>>44245169
What if they give Cinderace a new move that's kinda like Hidden Power in that it can be any type, but it's stronger, a physical move, and only Cinderace can learn it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 23:12:56 No.44246139 Report

Quoted By:

Instead of just removing or reworking stealth rock (which is really what this is all about), we get rapid spin, defog, heavy duty boots, court change, and probably more. Always more fire fighters instead of just removing the fire.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 23:25:55 No.44246236 Report

Quoted By: >>44246271 >>44246319 >>44248234

Been out of the meta for a while. Did this item help or make stallfests harder?
Because I could see it going either way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 23:30:21 No.44246271 Report

Quoted By: >>44246319

>>44246236
Obviously it made defensive teams better.
The link in the OP even talks about how it is becoming more commonplace on walls than leftovers is and bulky cores are so ridiculously strong no matter how many crazy offensive threats they allow in the tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 23:39:21 No.44246319 Report

Quoted By: >>44246355 >>44246390

>>44246236
It helps all archetypes, none of them like taking damage from hazards. Offensive teams probably benefited the most because they always had a harder time fitting in hazard removal, especially in the lower tiers.
>>44246271
Why are you blatantly lying?
The OP of that thread literally says Cinderace is the whole reason they're even having that discussion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 23:45:49 No.44246355 Report

Quoted By: >>44246412

>>44246319
>The OP of that thread literally says Cinderace is the whole reason they're even having that discussion.
Literally where do they say this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 23:50:18 No.44246390 Report

Quoted By: >>44246511

>>44246319
No, the OP says fast voltturners LIKE Cinderace are problematic because there is little risk when they avoid hazard damage. This strategy facilitates balanced and defensive tiers more than offensive teams because you use your walls and resistances to cover for your dedicated pivot's weaknesses.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Cinderace is stall now.png, 13KiB, 1037x76

Anonymous Fri 17 Jul 2020 23:54:23 No.44246412 Report

Quoted By:

>>44246355

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 00:01:23 No.44246455 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239460
I feel like it should have been a landing pad or something instead of boots considering the varying sizes of pokemon and how some pokemon don't even have appendages to wear boots on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 00:08:52 No.44246511 Report

Quoted By: >>44246576 >>44246601

>>44246390
What the fuck am I reading?
Volt turn IS an offensive play style. Any team relying on volt turners is an offensive team by default, bulky offense at most.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 00:15:59 No.44246576 Report

Quoted By:

>>44246511
>bulky offense at most
HO doesn't run volt turn so it's either a Bulky Offense or Balance team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 00:19:18 No.44246601 Report

Quoted By:

>>44246511
bulky offense is the style known for volt turn idiot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 01:16:30 No.44246945 Report

Quoted By:

>>44242902
Poltergeist

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 03:26:26 No.44247790 Report

Quoted By: >>44249764

>>44241663
>>44241679
how can it be that people to this day not understand
1. stall is a playstyle, not a single mon
and
2. Ferrothorn isn't a stallmon.

It has been repeated so many times you would think these retards would get the hint.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 03:30:31 No.44247822 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241701
>mandibuzz is a shitmon
only in /vp/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 04:44:33 No.44248167 Report

Quoted By:

>>44241701
Mandibuzz and Blissey are two of the best mons in the meta right now.
Xatu is also viable.
Shedinja is still a meme, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 04:46:56 No.44248184 Report

Quoted By:

>>44239707
MAXIMUM OVERKEK

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 04:56:04 No.44248234 Report

Quoted By: >>44248247 >>44248314 >>44248349

>>44246236
It helped everyone, but it helped offensive teams the most, which is why some autists are mad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 04:59:04 No.44248247 Report

Quoted By: >>44248299

>>44248234
post elo

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 05:11:55 No.44248299 Report

Quoted By:

>>44248247
>Post name
>Eternally flamed
>Post elo with name covered
>Bro that isn't you
No. Posting names goes against the spirit of an anonymous image board anyways

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 05:14:30 No.44248314 Report

Quoted By:

>>44248234
it fucking didn't lmao. The current meta is biased towards bulky balance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 05:20:46 No.44248349 Report

Quoted By: >>44248564 >>44248599

>>44248234
>it helped offensive teams the most
HDB are a defensive item. Offensive mons weak to hazards will still run their damage boosting items instead.
The one exception is Volcarona who is much easier to check with a physical move at half health, and can simply boost and roost off damage that doesn't threaten a OHKO.
The only offensive mon who uses HDB is Cinderace who benefits uniquely from it:
>three 120 BP moves to make up for the loss of an item
>Protean clone that gives STAB on said moves
even then, Cinderace is universally considered an inferior Greninja due to rocks necessitating it run HDB to pivot at all

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 05:37:50 No.44248441 Report

Quoted By:

The only people who hate Stealth Rocks are shitters that only spam attacking moves and Stallfags.

The Stealth Rock Metagame has been one of the most elegant parts of competitive Pokemon in Gen 2-4, had a rough patch with Ferrothorn being introduced for setters, and now it’s pretty trivial to even lay down hazards with how easy it is to negate them.
HDBs shouldn’t be banned, but I hope they are nerfed in the future to be 1 time use like Focus Sash.
I also hope that GameFreak eventually makes it so Pokemon can’t bring certain moves through transfer but still have the move exist and let other Pokemon transfer it, just so Defog’s distribution isn’t so ridiculous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 05:49:04 No.44248482 Report

Quoted By:

>NOOOO WHY CAN'T I SLASH VOLCARONA'S HP IN HALF JUST BY CLICKING ROCKS ANYMORE?!?!?!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 06:07:52 No.44248564 Report

Quoted By: >>44248599 >>44249577

>>44248349
>Cinderace is universally considered an inferior Greninja
Starter war faggots continue to spout this line but the people who actually play don't give a shit about this comparison because Cinderace and Greninja do not and will never coexist in gen 8 (Natdex isn't gen 8 and nobody takes it seriously, do not even try to mention it).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 06:16:30 No.44248599 Report

Quoted By:

>>44248349
>>44248564
Also I just checked natdex viability rankings just in case and Cinderace is ranked A while Greninja is ranked A-.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 08:20:37 No.44249098 Report

Quoted By:

>people complaining about Volc
Just Paralyze it you fucking morons

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 10:40:46 No.44249577 Report

Quoted By:

>>44248564
Of course they'll never coexist, but the point is that there is precedent for a fast, offensive protean mon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 11:45:54 No.44249764 Report

Quoted By:

>>44247790
People switch Ferrothorn in for two reasons: to wall anything not carrying a Fire or strong Fighting move and proceed to sap them to death while keeping itself alive, or force them to switch something that threatens it so the ferro user can then send in a check to that Pokemon and keep the stallfaggotry up.

Other Pokemon are similar but either lack a method of recovery or actually has a way of dealing direct damage. Ferro's entire purpose is to annoy the shit out of people, therefore its a stall mon.

Heatran on the other hand isn't stall, it's a stallbreaker, its objective is to kill Ferro / Pex / Chansey as quickly as possible, and anything that isn't another Heatran or something else with Flash Fire is gonna get dented by Magma Storm's 100 BP + 12% chip.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 13:42:40 No.44250116 Report

Quoted By:

I don't get why you people always want to go in endless discussion about stall vs offense in these threads, HDB is being talked about because of both. Cinderace/Zeraora etc are annoying as fuck with boots but according to stats World Cup games this year took almost twice as long in every way because it's impossible to make progress, this is also largely due to Toxapex which actually is considered broken by many good players who play tournaments, not just low elo shitters who don't get why it is broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Jul 2020 13:50:39 No.44250142 Report

Quoted By:

It’s fine since it makes you wonder what you want your one Pokémon that’s allowed to use it should be

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