/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #44389259

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Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 05:33:59 No.44389259 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>44389265 >>44389363 >>44389401 >>44389841 >>44390036 >>44390042 >>44390072 >>44390151 >>44390402 >>44390449

This is fucking disgusting.
Smogonfags actually play like this?
It's barely even Pokemon anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 05:34:48 No.44389262 Report

Quoted By:

this bait is beyond horrible but the thread will get 100 replies anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 05:35:12 No.44389265 Report

Quoted By: >>44389881

>>44389259
I agree with you. I only play VGC and The random battle because it’s fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 05:56:28 No.44389363 Report

Quoted By:

>>44389259
Anything Goes is the only way to play true Pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 05:59:51 No.44389381 Report

Quoted By:

>140 base power fairy move on a pokemon with top tier typing and fantastic stats

I'm surprised it wasn't suspect tested last gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 06:06:21 No.44389401 Report

Quoted By: >>44389432

>>44389259
The way I see it is that they are just banning everything offensive and dedicating OU to only stall mons. AG is the way to play at this point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 06:14:25 No.44389432 Report

Quoted By:

>>44389401
Sleep Clause, Evasion Clause, and the Arena Trap/Shadow Tag bans are some of the biggest nerfs to stall possible without fucking over other styles too hard.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO geneva convention.jpg, 18KiB, 344x499

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 07:52:48 No.44389841 Report

Quoted By: >>44389854 >>44389876 >>44389976 >>44390016

>>44389259
This is fucking disgusting.
Countries actually fight like this?
It's barely even war anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 07:56:30 No.44389854 Report

Quoted By: >>44389941 >>44390002

>>44389841
>comparing Pokemon to actual irl wars
I mean, you got me to reply so congrats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:01:54 No.44389876 Report

Quoted By:

>>44389841
>It's barely even war anymore.
agreed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:03:29 No.44389881 Report

Quoted By:

>>44389265
This but unironically
>playing smogon’s cuck meta in 2020
LMAO

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:18:10 No.44389941 Report

Quoted By:

>>44389854
The stakes are way higher, but the same general principle of banning the use of tools you can use to win still applies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:26:57 No.44389976 Report

Quoted By: >>44390260

>>44389841
>implying any nation actually follows these
Actual war can't be confined by rules. You're right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:33:06 No.44390002 Report

Quoted By:

>>44389854
do you even know how analogies work?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:36:10 No.44390016 Report

Quoted By:

>>44389841
unironically agree
god i miss the days of unrestricted warfare

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:41:24 No.44390036 Report

Quoted By: >>44390099 >>44390144 >>44390148 >>44390182 >>44390200 >>44390275 >>44390299

>>44389259
I will NEVER understand sleep clause.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:42:28 No.44390042 Report

Quoted By:

>>44389259
I really wish Smogon started league based on CP like in Pokemon Go. It could be really interesting meta.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:44:22 No.44390052 Report

Quoted By:

>play random doubles with friend
>close as fuck, very rarely a stomp on either side
>try battle factory with them
>crush them 5-0 every single time because of how OU works

dunno how people can like OU desu
t. monotype

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 57jcvno35sb31.jpg, 130KiB, 927x960

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:48:06 No.44390072 Report

Quoted By: >>44390094

>>44389259
I want to get into competitive but not to play on cucksimultors, just to play in random battles online.
But I have trouble deciding movesets so I resort to Smogon sets. Do they apply all these fanfic restrictions in their recommended sets? I don't want to restrict my team for a format I don't care about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:53:38 No.44390094 Report

Quoted By: >>44390115 >>44390337

>>44390072
Smogons sets are built with those rules in mind. Otherwise you'd see shit like minimize and double team on more movesets because evasion + paralyze/confusion is broken as shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:54:19 No.44390099 Report

Quoted By: >>44390125

>>44390036
I remember it being important because of Breloom and spore, I haven't played competitive since BW2 tho

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:56:47 No.44390115 Report

Quoted By: >>44390141 >>44390304 >>44390337

>>44390094
Surely there are pokemon, moves and items that can decrease the effects of confusion, paralysis or evasion. Why not let the market free and allow those to become valuable on their own instead of banning artificially?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 08:59:24 No.44390125 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390099
I get it, but brellom is not strongest shit ever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:01:29 No.44390141 Report

Quoted By: >>44390186 >>44390195 >>44390337

>>44390115
The issue is more that while those things exist, people will naturally try to pick the best strategies with the highest chance of winning, which can lead to an even more overly centralized metagame due to everyone trying to either abuse overpowered things while everyone else tries to counter them. It also has the issue of if you don't try to counter them you're basically losing to straight up RNG due to just flat out missing or being randomly paralyzed 2-3 times in a row. I personally do think those moves are weaker nowadays due to dark types being immune to prankster moves, electric types being immune to paralyze from thunder wave (and no one is gonna use glare c'mon), and defog being much more readily available. But the community basically decided it's not fun to either be an RNG fest or have a metagame centralized around evasion and having to constantly counter it or hope for good rng.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:02:33 No.44390144 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390036
Sleep is a strong condition and it can destroy unprepared teams. Vivillion is one of the best setup sweepers in AG.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:03:46 No.44390148 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390036
It's an old relic from Stadium/Stadium 2. It prevents people from spamming spore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:04:36 No.44390151 Report

Quoted By: >>44390174 >>44390180 >>44390188

>>44389259
How is the endless battle clause enforced? How do you stop somebody from switching a Blissey into your Blissey?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:09:51 No.44390174 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390151
BLissey vs Blissey is technically not endless, just really annoying and slow.
It actually refers to doing shit like this. https://youtu.be/nHwF_Qw2qPc

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:11:48 No.44390180 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390151
Blisseys switching into each other isn't endless.
I think Funbro is the only thing that triggers it with Block+Heal Pulse+Leppa Berry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:13:10 No.44390182 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390036
Putting something to sleep is arguably better than actually killing a Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:14:14 No.44390186 Report

Quoted By: >>44390197 >>44390211 >>44390337

>>44390141
So essentially the main issue Smogon has is the high RNG in battles, and in order to diminish that randomness they ban the centralizing OP strategies that force you to either always counter them or be at the mercy of RNG.

How much would the metagame change if RNG was replaced by a controllable mechanic like some physical touch screen minigane which you can develop skills for? Or evasion always being a possibility (more or less easy to achieve) in a simple dodging mechanic with the stick? Basically fuse turn based battles with some action battle elements and eliminate any RNG

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:14:46 No.44390188 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390151
It’s the endless battle clause, not the lame battle clause. You can create an endless game with any team just with both players switching back and forth never attacking, but that isn’t forced since either player can choose to just stop doing that. Endless battle clause specifically targets a set like Funbro (Recover / Heal Pulse / Block / Recycle @ Leppa Berry), which can prevent the victim from even intentionally losing to end the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:17:38 No.44390195 Report

Quoted By: >>44390224

>>44390141
is AG full of double team/confuse ray/paralysis?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:17:42 No.44390197 Report

Quoted By: >>44390337

>>44390186
If it genuinely wasn't RNG I could see people having less of an issue with it, but game freak doesn't particularly seem to really care since stuff like evasion clause isn't as big a deal in VGC because it's way harder to pull off an evasion set up when you have 2 mons trying to slaughter you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:18:14 No.44390200 Report

Quoted By: >>44390221

>>44390036
It made sense in gen 1 when waking up took a turn but nowadays there isnt much point to it besides stallfags feefees

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:21:05 No.44390211 Report

Quoted By: >>44390337

>>44390186
evasion is just kinda annoying in 6v6 singles especially on bulkier pokemon. Double team Chansey would be fucking stupid with toxic for examples. It's not an autowin but evasion or Moody generally help lower skill players beat higher skill ones by increasing the variance IMO. Sleep in Gen V is similar stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:23:59 No.44390221 Report

Quoted By: >>44390376

>>44390200
>there isnt much point to it besides stallfags feefees
Ironic because it's mostly bulkier teams that love abusing sleep and they can easily fit stuff like Amoongus and Tangrowth to prevent it going wild against themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:24:50 No.44390224 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390195
Not double team since you have shit like Giratina with roar, and good luck KOing that fucking wall before it forces you out, but it does have trappers like Gothitelle using Shadow Tag + attack debuffs and taunt and Vivillion able to just force your entire team to sleep while sweeping with Quiver Dance

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:34:53 No.44390260 Report

Quoted By: >>44390268

>>44389976
Well, it's somewhat working since soldiers aren't all equipped with mustard gas bombs and shotguns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:37:03 No.44390268 Report

Quoted By: >>44390309

>>44390260
>shotguns illegal in war
really?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:38:47 No.44390275 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390036
Sleep was complete BS in gen 5 (putting a mon to sleep was basically tantamount to KOing it) and was banned entirely.
It's not quite as BS anymore, but still cheesy enough to be restrictive.
I personally think that they should either ban it entirely or not at all, but they've long since made up their mind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:47:19 No.44390299 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390036
Sleep is incredibly luck based and can be worse than a KO, since an incapacitated Pokemon can setup and sweep your team with ease with just one or two bad rolls

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:49:13 No.44390304 Report

Quoted By: >>44390316

>>44390115
The problem is that evasion isn't actually very good. If it was good, everyone would either use it or run counters to it.
But here's the stats on moves in Natdex AG. https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-06-DLC1/moveset/gen8nationaldexag-1760.txt
Just Ctrl+F "double team" and "minimize".
Yeah, not a lot of people using it.
The issue is that it turns the battle into nothing but RNG. Your victory or defeat depends on pure luck, so not a lot of people use it because it's not reliable.
It's better to just cut it out of the equation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:50:23 No.44390309 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390268
geneva ban shotgun
drones is ok

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:53:07 No.44390316 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390304
Evasion is VERY good once you get the +2 stages, since it makes any attack with less than 100% accuracy have less than 50% accuracy. But needing two turns to get +2 boosts is what makes it bad.
If you had a mon that had a +1 evasion ability along with Double Team and decent stats, it would centralize AG in a very bad way

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:59:50 No.44390337 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390094
>>44390115
>>44390141
>>44390186
>>44390197
>>44390211

Maybe the solution to abused OP strategies is not so much to reduce RNG or ban moves through clauses. If the problem to a centralized meta is that you are forced to either adopt the OP strategy or counter it, leaving no room for any other strategy, which is no fun... a solution would be to increase the size of teams. You can go with a pool of 10 monsters to choose from, which gives you options for various alternative strategies and counters you will choose depending on the situation. Battles would still be 6vs6, but you can adapt and choose the active 6 you want depending on how the battle develops, and must leave the final unchosen 4 in the bench. If you show you can counter, you opponent may switch to a different strategy, or if he is not prepared you can continue with your own favorite startegy. Battles become more responsive between one another and not so much "I have a prepared strategy X and if he counters it I'm fucked". Winners should not be decided by the time the teams are chosen before a battle even begins.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 10:12:41 No.44390376 Report

Quoted By: >>44390411

>>44390221
Sleep is pointless on stall since it cant abuse the free turns it provides in any meaningful way. Amoonguss or Tangrowth put something to sleep and then switch out since they cannot actually apply any significant offensive pressure or even set up hazards. Burning through 1 turn of sleep already gives you a 50% chance to wake up next turn, 100% by third.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 10:23:22 No.44390402 Report

Quoted By:

>>44389259
The species clause needs to be redone to treat regional variants as separate species.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 10:24:55 No.44390405 Report

Quoted By: >>44390447

>forcing endless battles is banned
That's based

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 10:26:56 No.44390411 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390376
yeah that's why the standard stall right now uses sleep

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 10:36:13 No.44390447 Report

Quoted By:

>>44390405
Same with evasion and sleep. Both of those are anti-stall rules, even if /vp/ would never admit that Smogon would make a rule that hurts stall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Aug 2020 10:36:45 No.44390449 Report

Quoted By:

>>44389259
More Pokemon than VGcuck meta

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