/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #45452015

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Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 03:32:08 No.45452015 View View Reply Original Report

Remember when NU had mostly shitmons with 400 or less base stat total?

Now it has Pokemon that were OU in gen 4 with 540 base stat total.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 03:32:57 No.45452020 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
Electivire should not be OU in gen4 though

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 03:34:45 No.45452032 Report

Quoted By: >>45453507

Powercreep is real

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 03:42:19 No.45452094 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
Electivire was never actually good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 03:54:20 No.45452202 Report

Quoted By: >>45455213 >>45457999 >>45461396

>>45452015
Electivire was trash in Gen 4 OU. It stopped being used when people actually got good at the game. It's way too frail, has weak base power moves, and is forced to be a mixed attacker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 06:22:43 No.45453171 Report

Quoted By: >>45455399

Nice bait but this is literally just because there are more pokemon. ZU now is what NU was when it was the lowest tier.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO elect.png, 31KiB, 806x294

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 06:28:42 No.45453202 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
>was ZU/Untiered in SM
use something else as bait pls

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 07:14:33 No.45453448 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
Electivire was OU in gen 4 as a meme.
Players kept insisting on using it, so its usage stayed up despite it being garbage.
It dropped to RU in gen 5 and NU in gen 6, and was Untiered in gen 7.
Powercreep has gone too far for sure, but this is a bad example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 07:21:29 No.45453493 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
But it’s a total shitmon. Garbage movepool, and while the stats are mixed, it favors physical, all while being a type that barely has any decent physical moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 07:23:41 No.45453507 Report

Quoted By: >>45453770 >>45455709 >>45455732 >>45456476

>>45452015
>>45452032
Things every last one of you fags have yet to offer a single word of explanation for: why is powercreep bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 07:25:15 No.45453510 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
Quality bait

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 07:36:58 No.45453563 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
Electrivire was never good so it's a bad example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 07:37:18 No.45453566 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
i remember when people said electrivire would finally be good in OU in early gen 8 lmao, bitch will always be a shitmon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 07:45:23 No.45453603 Report

Quoted By: >>45453779

Blame Electivire
It was never good. It deceived people into believing it was good, but it never was. 123 Attack with good coverage may look good, but when you consider that some of your key coverage, and in the past, STAB are at 75 Base Power, it starts becoming less fancy.
Soon after, if you're willing to run calcs, you'll realize it doesn't take much more than a 90 Base Attack using 100 Base Power moves to equal Electivire, which is why mixed sets are seen more & more ( That & Physical counters are more common in lower tiers )

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 08:20:21 No.45453770 Report

Quoted By: >>45454251 >>45457026

>>45453507
>why is powercreep bad
It's fucking obvious.
Powercreep incentivizes and is a product of consumerism. Making your old thing outdated and worthless compared to this new thing, so you keep buying new thing to stay on top. It's additionally adding to the fire of people being reprogrammed into being primarily motivated by FOMO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 08:21:11 No.45453773 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
Electivire deserved to be NU in gen 4.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 08:21:43 No.45453779 Report

Quoted By: >>45454055

>>45453603
This. It had Hoenn Shitmon Syndrome an entire generation after Hoenn, which is impressive considering the Physical Special Split mostly ended Hoenn Shitmon Syndrome

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 09:36:40 No.45454055 Report

Quoted By: >>45454482

>>45453779
>Hoenn Shitmon Syndrome
SFMA/Moves that don't complement its stats?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 10:37:50 No.45454251 Report

Quoted By: >>45455670 >>45463505

>>45453770
ok but
if you're playing the gen 8 meta, then you're either playing on a free simulator, or you already bought swsh.
how exactly is powercreep consumerist if you either playing for free or already bought the product?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 11:36:53 No.45454482 Report

Quoted By:

>>45454055
Yep. And mons who get screwed out of STAB for their dominant attacking stat because both of their types were the wrong category.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 11:42:51 No.45454515 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
I blame bloated movesets

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 12:09:37 No.45454618 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
Electivire was never good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 14:38:49 No.45455199 Report

Quoted By: >>45455742 >>45456363 >>45457116 >>45469163

>>45452015
They should fix it

Just make it Electric/Fighting and make it a physical attacker rather than a shitty mixed attacker

>HP: 75
>Attack: 143
>Defense: 87
>Sp. Attack: 45
>Sp. Defense: 85
>Speed: 105

There, same BST but it hits harder, has a higher defense and moves faster

Also buff Wild Charge. It currently has the same power as thunderbolt, a lower accuracy and a negative side-effect. They should boost it to 120 (buff Volt Tackle to 150, it doesn't matter because only Pikachu's line can use it)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 14:41:13 No.45455213 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452202
Only it's best physical STAB move was weak. It's coverage options are great.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 14:52:47 No.45455271 Report

Quoted By: >>45455339 >>45455693

>>45452015
Bad example. Something like Vaporeon would have been better.
It has never been nerfed by any generational mechanic changes, it simply has just been outclassed by better mons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 15:00:36 No.45455328 Report

Quoted By:

Tbh I have tremendous fun using my Moto Drive Electivire bro. It's an absolute unit to bait Thunder Cage/Bolt from Regieleki, gain Speed and proceed to at least get one boost with Power-up Punch/Max Knuckle. It's not extremely viable, but works wonders against that regi. (and then proceed to max hailstorm the ground switch in)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 15:03:04 No.45455339 Report

Quoted By:

>>45455271
don't remind me bro

i'll play wish vaporeon til the day i die

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 15:12:57 No.45455399 Report

Quoted By: >>45456414

>>45453171
wtf is ZU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 15:58:33 No.45455670 Report

Quoted By: >>45457529

>>45454251
It's about convincing people they must get the new product if they want access to the latest meta threats. That's why people repeat that they balance stuff with VGC in mind and not singles.

Now, about Smogon, Protect is an almost omnipresent move on VGC, the fact Urshifu's ability + signature move heavily affects stall (singles) is just a byproduct of doubles being sort of analogous to singles. Meaning that any semblance of balance singles might have is only because of the fandom's intervention. Even AG has some clauses to avoid people running sets that break the game and make it literally impossible to watch and absolutely uncompetitive, whereas VGC doesn't have that issue. I'm not trying to start a VGC vs Showdown argument here, just showing you how GF actually balances stuff taking into consideration how doing that will cash them more money. They don't really give much of a damn about singles, and I tell you this as a smogon player.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 16:02:34 No.45455690 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
honestly just give him Zing zap and Electric surge

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 16:03:37 No.45455693 Report

Quoted By:

>>45455271
not much can Flip turn wish

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 16:06:49 No.45455709 Report

Quoted By:

>>45453507
Because it's an artificial way to make new mons likeable and it makes old mons irrelevant.

It's like designers are kids, "Look at my new toy it's bigger than all the others"
When you continue that way after 20 years you have 800 shitty toys and 100 cool ones instead of 900 cool ones.

Also you end up with ridiculous numbers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 16:10:56 No.45455732 Report

Quoted By: >>45466102

>>45453507
It's lazy and leads to even more imbalance because it always happens nonuniformly. Look at something like Starmie that went from top of OU to UU despite barely changing at all over the years. How is it fun to have your old favorites turn into shitmons solely because GF forgot about them and created new overpowered shit that strictly outclasses them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 16:12:47 No.45455742 Report

Quoted By:

>>45455199
>Also buff Wild Charge. It currently has the same power as thunderbolt, a lower accuracy and a negative side-effect. They should boost it to 120 (buff Volt Tackle to 150, it doesn't matter because only Pikachu's line can use it)
This would really be the easiest and most elegant way to solve the physical Electric problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 17:44:18 No.45456363 Report

Quoted By:

>>45455199
>Also buff Wild Charge. It currently has the same power as thunderbolt, a lower accuracy and a negative side-effect. They should boost it to 120 (buff Volt Tackle to 150, it doesn't matter because only Pikachu's line can use it)
Yes, please, recoil for physical Thunderbolt was always asinine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 17:50:41 No.45456414 Report

Quoted By: >>45456425

>>45455399
Anything Goes
Ubers
Overused
Underused
Rarelyused
Neverused
Partiallyused
Zeroused
Untiered

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 17:51:43 No.45456425 Report

Quoted By:

>>45456414
PU has no meaning. It's just a joke on stink
ZU does have one but not PU

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 17:59:16 No.45456476 Report

Quoted By: >>45456492

>>45453507
because GF is unwillingly to patch old mons and give them better BST they only update the movepool minimally

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 18:01:34 No.45456492 Report

Quoted By: >>45456509

>>45456476
They do update BSTs, like how they fucked Aegislash and turned it into trash this gen or added 10 attack to Nido and Dugtrio, minor stuff like that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 18:03:12 No.45456509 Report

Quoted By: >>45463358

>>45456492
yeah but with the fully evolved under 400 or 450 BST shitmons they do nothing

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 18:08:46 No.45456572 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
Electrivire was always a gimmick shitmon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 18:34:01 No.45456794 Report

Quoted By:

Electivire was OU in Gen4 because scrubs used (and fell for) the GyaraVire bait

It worked in theory, and Smogon scrubs were too simple to do anything other than hit their TPunch/HP Electric coverage whenever they saw a Gyarados that it became 'good' in practice. So much that 2/3 times Earthquake was the right choice when you saw a Gyarados.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 18:38:02 No.45456826 Report

Quoted By: >>45456963 >>45457037 >>45457161

>>45452015
Evire was never good in gen 4 OU. Honestly it's not a bad pokemon tho, just give it a good physical electric move. Ghost types just got theirs this gen, why can't electric?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1575512972473.jpg, 105KiB, 960x888

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 18:57:46 No.45456963 Report

Quoted By: >>45457012

>>45456826
>giving good physical electric type moves to anything other than the mascot

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 19:03:34 No.45457012 Report

Quoted By:

>>45456963
or Zeraora

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 19:05:05 No.45457026 Report

Quoted By: >>45463505

>>45453770
consumerism is why the franchise exists you dumbass socialist

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 19:06:28 No.45457037 Report

Quoted By:

>>45456826
The blatant favoritism GF shows toward certain types is kind of bizarre, and I say this as a ghostfag

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 19:15:20 No.45457116 Report

Quoted By:

>>45455199
>a lower accuracy
Wild Charge has 100% accuracy actually. I agree with you about the rest though, needs more power and no recoil.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 19:20:15 No.45457161 Report

Quoted By: >>45457406

>>45456826
https://www.smogon.com/dex/dp/pokemon/electivire/
It's OU in gen IV right now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 19:47:23 No.45457366 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
> Electrivire

Was literally only OU in Gen 4 because it's usage got raised by bads using it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 19:52:23 No.45457406 Report

Quoted By: >>45457430

>>45457161
Just because it's OU doesn't mean it was good in OU. It was/is mainly used by low ladder players. Electivire is currently not even ranked in the viability chart.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 19:56:11 No.45457430 Report

Quoted By: >>45457514 >>45457568 >>45461505

>>45457406
It has seen enough consistent usage to be OU, at a point in the meta where mere shitter memery isn't enough to keep something afloat. Case in point, Charizard is still down in NU where it belongs.

It's decent. Outclassed, obviously, but capable of performing in the right hands.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 20:08:01 No.45457514 Report

Quoted By:

>>45457430
I don't think it's terrible. I just don't think it should be OU. It should be more of an off meta pick, something in UU or NU but somewhat frequently used in OU, something like Reuniclus last gen

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 20:09:50 No.45457529 Report

Quoted By: >>45457616

>>45455670
AG's endless battle clause solely exists so that Showderp can't harass children in the bottom of the ladder.
Seriously.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 20:14:04 No.45457568 Report

Quoted By: >>45457610

>>45457430
>It has seen enough consistent usage to be OU, at a point in the meta where mere shitter memery isn't enough to keep something afloat.
Wrong, OU stats in gen 4 were not properly weighted (they started doing it in gen 6), so low ladder retards actually influenced what was and was not OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 20:21:20 No.45457610 Report

Quoted By: >>45457877

>>45457568
Even when the stats are weighted you still get shitmons like Mimikyu in Gen 7 and Tyranitar in Gen 8 sticking around in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 20:21:42 No.45457616 Report

Quoted By: >>45458875

>>45457529
>they took funbro
It's not fair.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 21:00:59 No.45457877 Report

Quoted By: >>45459777

>>45457610
spectrier exists so you'll see more ttar

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 21:15:51 No.45457999 Report

Quoted By: >>45461539

>>45452202
Earthquake and Cross Chop are good high power moves though
For special moves it’s got Fire Blast, also good and high power
The problem with electivire is that it is a
>slow
>frail
>mixed
>attacker

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Nov 2020 23:00:10 No.45458875 Report

Quoted By:

>>45457616
If anything it's an honor.
Funbro was so broken that it got banned from the tier made for the mon too broken for Uber.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 00:47:06 No.45459777 Report

Quoted By:

>>45457877
Too bad it can't pursuit trap Spectrier.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO untiered sloth.png, 37KiB, 1060x217

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 03:32:52 No.45461313 Report

Quoted By: >>45462946 >>45463367

>>45452015
>670 BST
>Untiered
Has power creep gone too far?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 03:42:49 No.45461396 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452202
It needed stronger coverage options and a worthwhile STAB. For whatever reason, GF really hates making physical Electric moves, and when they do, they either suck ass (TPunch, Wild Charge) or are signature moves (Plasma Fists, Bolt Strike).

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 04:00:02 No.45461505 Report

Quoted By: >>45462856

>>45457430
Bro...gen IV OU tiering is frozen. Even if electivire got 0.01% usage until the end of time it wouldn't fall to UU because the tiers no longer update. It's a shit pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 04:04:49 No.45461539 Report

Quoted By:

>>45457999
For the sake of things it wasn't typically super slow. The most common use with it was to bring it in on a telegraphed electric hit so it would get the motor drive boost. Then you just hit things with coverage because stuff like earthquake/cross chop were good on their own and stuff like ice punch hit common threats 4x

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 08:32:26 No.45462856 Report

Quoted By: >>45463429

>>45461505
>because the tiers no longer update
But the rules update, meaning that how viable certain mons are changes, but the tiers still reflect the old rules.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 6F856BB0-11D6-4476-9025-18424C08 (...).jpg, 135KiB, 750x865

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 08:54:21 No.45462946 Report

Quoted By: >>45462986 >>45463367

>>45461313
>165 attack
>sheer force
>untiered
Yeah power creep is definitely a huge problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 09:05:37 No.45462986 Report

Quoted By:

>>45462946
How the fuck did this happen?
Rampardos should destroy stall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 10:49:18 No.45463358 Report

Quoted By:

>>45456509
That's not true - they gave Ariados 10 SpDef! TEN! That makes its SpDef base 70! It wouldn't have made Ariados OP to have 90 Def/SpDef, GameFreak.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 10:51:09 No.45463367 Report

Quoted By: >>45463396

>>45461313
>Its Ability completely kills it
>>45462946
>Slow and frail, its best move makes it kill itself
Gee, I wonder why these Pokemon don't fare very well?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 10:57:38 No.45463396 Report

Quoted By:

>>45463367
I'm 90% sure those are shitposts given both of those Pokemon have been NU or worse since the DS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 11:08:08 No.45463429 Report

Quoted By: >>45463638

>>45462856
correct, because smogon still needs to cater to the 25 autists that still play dpp uu

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 11:17:55 No.45463463 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
>No guard as second ability
>Zing Zap
>Dynamic Punch
>Power Whip
>Recover or slack off

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1605161974594.png, 36KiB, 400x400

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 11:25:38 No.45463505 Report

Quoted By:

>>45457026
>>45454251
>Defends consumerism
Im a marketeer and i didnt realize just how great the ones before me were. Ill work harder from now on

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 11:51:19 No.45463617 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
Power creep is a hell of a drug

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 11:55:05 No.45463638 Report

Quoted By:

>>45463429
They're already catering to the 26 autists that still play dpp ou, so why not?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 15:17:21 No.45464836 Report

Quoted By:

bump.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1601488310071.png, 326KiB, 474x490

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 16:04:36 No.45465174 Report

Quoted By:

>>45452015
>physical electric type

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO D47EF790-9D70-4243-B965-40BAFA46 (...).jpg, 42KiB, 1280x720

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 17:58:59 No.45466102 Report

Quoted By:

>>45455732
Poor Starmie

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 22:17:44 No.45468313 Report

Quoted By:

bump.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO One very angry puppet.jpg, 77KiB, 534x319

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 22:40:41 No.45468504 Report

Quoted By: >>45469109

>2020
>people still trying to argue that Gen 4 Electivire is good
We have FOURTEEN years of evidence. Electivire was bad then and is bad now. Please stop, our children do not need to continue this argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 23:35:49 No.45469109 Report

Quoted By:

>>45468504
If it's bad, then why's it OU, hmmm?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Nov 2020 23:39:53 No.45469163 Report

Quoted By:

>>45455199
Electivire's current Attack stat is good enough. It's Speed and bulk are it's main problems. Give it 55 Special Attack, 95 Defense and 105 Speed. Pretty much all it needs, in terms of stats

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