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Feelings on Johto

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:15:33 No.45657409 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>45657486 >>45657540 >>45657541 >>45657664 >>45658926 >>45659078 >>45661014 >>45661064 >>45664576 >>45666308 >>45666311 >>45670278 >>45670469 >>45671470

https://strawpoll.com/a82jojpao
I'm curious on how /vp/ feels about johto, as a region. Ignoring the level curve and pokemon distribution for a sec, do you believe the region has enough substance despite it's small size in comparison to other regions? Do you believe it carves out a strong identity of it's own?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:17:57 No.45657426 Report

Quoted By: >>45658988 >>45659014

It might be because im older now and I am too desensitized to care about video games anymore (much less Pokemon) but I can barely play Heart Gold and Soul Silver

The only mechanic I like about Gen 2 is you can start breeding better pokemon as early as the 3rd town which automatically gives you a Ditto to use and play with

After Gen 2 began this stupid process where Ditto had to be a Post Game mon up until Wonder Trade simplified this process.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:27:12 No.45657486 Report

Quoted By: >>45657506

>>45657409
What we have of Johto is decent, it has some very memorable areas like Ruins of Alph or the Sprout Tower. but it was always meant to be a Kanto expansion, the working title for Gen 2 was literally "Red & Green 2". Johto as is wouldn't work without Kanto which I'm fine with, it was before Hoenn started the formula of every region being an (almost) isolated experience.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:30:25 No.45657506 Report

Quoted By: >>45657519 >>45657535

>>45657486

One of my favorite little details about the Sprout Tower is due to a Programming Oversight its completely optional. You absolutely do not need to go there AT ALL in the Gameboy games. If you beat Falkner, the guy who gives you the Miracle Seed will just let you pass

This gets changed in the remake where that fucker will not let you leave town until you beat Sprout Tower, the Gym Leader and get the Togepi Egg

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:32:38 No.45657519 Report

Quoted By: >>45657542 >>45657543

>>45657506
>programming oversight

is this confirmed because I am pretty sure it's just an optional area, something that used to be in pokemon games

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:35:11 No.45657535 Report

Quoted By: >>45657549

>>45657506
This isn't a programming over sight dude, pokemon just genuinely used to have these things called optional areas. Not to mention you're wrong about the dude not letting you leave till you beat the tower, in reality it's that you can't even challenge the gym till you beat it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:35:54 No.45657540 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657409
The region never felt small to me when I played it. Coming off of Kanto in gen 1, it seemed comparable in the number of caves and towns to explore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:35:55 No.45657541 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657409
Where's the option for "Yes, because it's just West Kanto?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:36:01 No.45657542 Report

Quoted By: >>45657552

>>45657519
I doubt it's a programming oversight because you need to do sprout tower to get flash, but you don't need flash to complete the game (with the exception of mt silver)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:36:21 No.45657543 Report

Quoted By: >>45657560

>>45657519

Gen 2 is made on caution tape and faith. It has the same exact problems Gen 1 had where it theoretically lets you tackle any number of different objectives in order but not the way the Prima Guides want you to do them because technically you're not suppose to be in Saffron until long after you have the Poke Flute and taken care of the Rocket Infestation in both Lavendar and Celadon Cities.

Gen 2 lets you fight the 7th Gym Leader completely out of order right around the time you get Surf.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:37:44 No.45657549 Report

Quoted By: >>45657570

>>45657535

You're thinking about the remake. Also that just sounds like a coping mechanism because you're one of those people who cant handle the fact how Gen 2 needs to only be viewed in the shiniest rose colored glasses

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:39:05 No.45657552 Report

Quoted By: >>45657563

>>45657542

>You need Flash

No the fuck you do not unless we're talking about the remake. In fact the remake trivializes this even more by making Whirlpool and Rock Smash even more worthless then they were in the gameboy games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:40:35 No.45657560 Report

Quoted By: >>45657569

>>45657543
>It has the same problem as gen 1
>Problem
Kys, it's the best part of early pokemon
These aren't oversights they literally were just OK with the player sequence breaking a little bit back then. They STILL let you sequence break roughly as much in both remakes because you were always meant to be able to, it's just not the intended path.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:41:06 No.45657563 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657552
work on your reading comprehension

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:42:42 No.45657569 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657560

What's funny is even in the remake a lot of these exploits are still theoretically possible in Fire Red and Leaf Green. if you already know where to get the Tea before you beat the 4th Gym you can still do things out of order.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 06:42:50 No.45657570 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657549
>You're thinking about the remake
Yes, cause you mentioned the remake
>This gets changed in the remake where that fucker will not let you leave town until you beat Sprout Tower, the Gym Leader and get the Togepi Egg

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 07:04:59 No.45657664 Report

Quoted By: >>45658930

>>45657409
people bitch about it being a Kanto suburb but that's exactly why I like it and find it unique, it's the only region that's not it's own isolated microcosm that feels like a theme park, it's just a place where people live.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 09:21:41 No.45658093 Report

Quoted By:

Johto is the worst region

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 13:00:11 No.45658926 Report

Quoted By: >>45659043 >>45671795

>>45657409
GEN2 - dated mediocre game but 10/10 for it's time. improved so much from the first generation. plus the target audience (read:kids) didn't care about the flaws, who the fuck cares if you have to play MORE of the game to catch houndour bruh
i can admit that nostalgia is the biggest reason why i love GSC so much

GEN4 - GOAT post-game for it's gen but didn't fix a lot of the 2nd gen issues (leveling, pokemon distirbution, etc.) Nostalgia keeps me from hating it though

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 13:01:14 No.45658930 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657664
>NEETs complaining about why kanto is realistic

kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 13:16:46 No.45658988 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657426
They probably didn't want kids printing starters as soon as breeding becomes available.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 13:23:41 No.45659014 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657426
:( f brother

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 13:24:45 No.45659018 Report

Quoted By: >>45660440

Johto feels weirdly a lot more fleshed out than Kanto is. Take the two towns with the second gym alone.
>Azalea Town is a small village by the Ilex Forest. They keep Slowpokes around to bless the area with rain and as a food source since the town is so isolated. Kurt is an arrogant old man who creates elegant Poke Balls from a simpler time. The town sells Charcoal made by cutting down trees in the Ilex Forest with a group of Farfetch'd. Bugsy, the gym leader, is a Pokemon researcher who specializes in Bug-type Pokemon. He even discovered Fury Cutter.
>Cerulean City is a city built on the waterways. Miracle Cycle sells overpriced bikes that you need a voucher for. There's a burglarized house where a Rocket Grunt stole the TM for dig. Misty is the Water-type gym leader. There's either an old man who will trade you Jynx for Poliwhirl or a girl who gives you a Bulbasaur.
The worldbuilding for much of Kanto exists solely to service the player. It feels extremely lackluster and barren compared to other games and its jarring when coming from a region as beautifully crafted for its time as Johto is. So either Kanto actually needs to be revamped or Johto needs to split off from it in order to feel more complete.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 13:29:42 No.45659043 Report

Quoted By:

>>45658926
The lack of any gameplay improvements is what ruined HGSS for me. There's nothing on the level of the midgame Sevii Islands quest from FRLG, just a few gimmick areas you visit once or twice and promptly forget about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 13:36:15 No.45659078 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657409
I love Johto. Favorite region, and it feels very unique in a way that I love, especially places like Violet city and Azalea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 18:10:15 No.45660440 Report

Quoted By:

>>45659018
I couldn't agree more. Playing through johto right now and it's impressive how much more grounded and real the world feels compared to kanto. I don't hate kanto but johto has a way of feeling like a place that exists in real life rather than a videogame world that makes the whole adventure feel more grounded and real.

Owner of a shiny chesnaught

Owner of a shiny chesnaught Thu 10 Dec 2020 19:53:29 No.45661014 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657409
I find it very comfy. Flawed, yet comfy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 20:03:43 No.45661064 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657409
Literally every town in that game has so much fucking SOUL

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Dec 2020 23:02:47 No.45662312 Report

Quoted By:

had a lot more interesting scenery to explore than kanto, with a great natural feel. not too cramped, or too big, didn't feel like it was truncated at all to get another region in there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 05:24:19 No.45664576 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657409
Kanto is just east Johto.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 05:36:14 No.45664635 Report

Quoted By:

The more traditional enviroment helps to differeciate it from Kanto, which is mostly urbanized

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 05:40:24 No.45664656 Report

Quoted By: >>45664772 >>45671370

I cannot stress enough how much Crystal is my favorite Pokémon game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 06:05:40 No.45664772 Report

Quoted By: >>45664799 >>45668698

>>45664656
>no Mareep
>no Girafarig
I appreciate the QoL improvements like being able to get evolution stones before the postgame and the little patch of grass they added so you can get Growlithe early but the version exclusives are awful, practically a deal-breaker if I'm just playing casually.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 06:14:26 No.45664799 Report

Quoted By:

>>45664772
No mareep and girafarig is a good trade in return for both teddiursa AND phanpy that are now early game, as well as actually fucking catchable snubbull, sneasel being available in ice cave, etc.
Plus
>Actually appealing foretress sprite
I play gold and silver too, but when I do I don't pretend it's for any reason other than an autistic hatred of the Eusine plotline

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 14:06:44 No.45666299 Report

Quoted By:

bump.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 14:09:46 No.45666308 Report

Quoted By: >>45668817

>>45657409
I'm not a huge fan of the Johto games, but Johto is my favorite region for new pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 14:10:51 No.45666311 Report

Quoted By: >>45666515 >>45670491

>>45657409
>no option for just saying Johto is shit
What a garbage poll. Johto failed to do what it set out to do. Create a traditional Japanese inspired theme. There is only like 2 towns that follow this theme and everything else is just trash. The pokemon don't follow the theme either.

Hoenn and Alola did the whole "brand new setting" thing so much better than Johto ever could.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 14:54:53 No.45666515 Report

Quoted By:

>>45666311
Only retards need the regional inspiration hammered into every single design element of the game. Johto had just the right amount of traditional Japan. Alola goes overboard with Hawaii inspired elements. Fucking tiki torches, surfer dudes and floral t shirts everywhere. It feels like a Hawaii themed amusement and less like a lived in world

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 15:26:27 No.45666693 Report

Quoted By: >>45666913 >>45670500 >>45670825

I've never understood the level curve thing. I'm replaying hgss and I'm kinda sorta close to underlevelled if anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 15:36:20 No.45666743 Report

Quoted By: >>45668683

Johto was 5 hours long of walking and only 2 puzzles. Kanto was at least 30 hours of walking and 5 complex puzzles.
They intended Johto to not overshadow Kanto yet it's so short.

I really, really really want to say that Johto is 100% distinct and fleshed but it's just so small.
As a boomer who thinks nu-Pokemon starts at gen 3, 3 gave a fresh feeling of another distinct region but very big even if you take out the water

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 16:13:18 No.45666913 Report

Quoted By: >>45666939 >>45668659

>>45666693
The thing people complain about is the disparity between gym leaders and regular trainers that starts after morty, making the average trainers too easy and leaving you underleveled for the gyms. Personally I believe being under leveled for the gyms is part of the difficulty balance. And you CAN find stronger trainers with Pokémon in the mid to late 20s, and similarly leveled wild Pokémon as well for that matter, you just have to actually explore off the beaten path. I always liked this approach

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 16:18:26 No.45666939 Report

Quoted By:

>>45666913
Oh so I'm cool for being underlevelled? awesome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 21:42:30 No.45668659 Report

Quoted By:

>>45666913
I always felt this was very overstated
With the exception of the mess that is the Rocket hideout, I never felt underleveled until I got to Clair

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 21:45:48 No.45668683 Report

Quoted By: >>45669946

>>45666743
You're supposed to get into the world, man. Like stop a minute and do some shit other than fight the gym leader. There's actually quite a lot to do in Johto besides become the champion and defeat TR again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 21:47:46 No.45668698 Report

Quoted By:

>>45664772
Lacking these two from crystal hurts, as a girafarig fag

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Dec 2020 22:05:10 No.45668817 Report

Quoted By: >>45670073

>>45666308
Johto mons are awesome, I freaking love their designs. Maybe its all nostalgia, but they're so damn cute.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 00:59:04 No.45669946 Report

Quoted By: >>45670037

>>45668683
>There's actually quite a lot to do in Johto
LIKE FUCKING WHAT FUCKING DUMBASS
List EVERYTHING YOU CAN DO in Johto other than those things RIGHT NOW

Because I pretty much encountered every single map while on my way to defeat TR and become E4 champion.

Let's see... you can
>Send mail, and it's just a fucking gimmick and you can't even put in many characters anyway
>Get Pokerus
>Headbutt for Heracross and Pineco
>Daycare
>Get dragons
>Get dunsparce
>Wild pokemon hordes
>Trainer revenge
>Radio/cellphone events
>...
That's it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 01:11:13 No.45670037 Report

Quoted By:

>>45669946
Not that anon but if you claim to explore all of johto in 5 hours then it’s abundantly clear that you’re lying. Go explore shit that’s optional that’s the majority of exploration in johto as is. Not to mention there’s
>rematches
>bug catching contests
>Game corner
>breeding
>collecting berries and apricorns and giving them to kurt
It’s not like it’s a lot but it’s more than enough to fill out the time in between events in the game. A lot of this shit requires back tracking which is actually good because unlike kanto there’s actually quite often a lot to see after getting new HMs. I’m playing gold rn and everytime I’ve gotten a rematch call I’ve stumbled upon new things on my way.
Idk what you expect out of a GB game but personally I’m extremely satisfied with the experience this provides

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 01:15:10 No.45670073 Report

Quoted By:

>>45668817
I feel like johto deliberately tried to have a lot of cute designs to balance out gen 1s more crude designs. There’s cute designs in kanto like pikachu and clefairy but most are like tentacruel or gyarados or nidoking. There are cool mons in johto like tyranitar and donphan, but most are cute like hoppip, mareep, etc. It’s all a good balance I find

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 01:38:56 No.45670278 Report

Quoted By: >>45670454

>>45657409
Johto is a great region, and the devs did a very good job making it feel alive. However, i do think its overall presentation is brought down by kanto being the second half of the game. The average johto compliment isn't about the region itself, but the fact that there are 2 regions in the game, something that ends up harming johto. I would've far preferred them axing kanto and then using the extra cartridge space fleshing out the region even more, to truly make it one of the best.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 02:03:52 No.45670454 Report

Quoted By:

>>45670278
>by kanto being the second half of the game
Kanto is like the last third, at most, unless you need to grind for Red.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 02:06:26 No.45670469 Report

Quoted By: >>45671544

>>45657409
>ignore level curve
>had to grind in front of safari zone for hours just so i can fight claire

fuck you

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 02:10:06 No.45670491 Report

Quoted By:

>>45666311
>being a whitey who thinks japan is what the tours tell him

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 02:11:08 No.45670500 Report

Quoted By: >>45670511 >>45670668

>>45666693
you will never have a team of 6 on par with gym leader levels

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 02:12:37 No.45670511 Report

Quoted By:

>>45670500
Yea, perfect, since none of the gym leaders have teams of 6.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 02:36:42 No.45670668 Report

Quoted By: >>45671358

>>45670500
You need at least two HM mules, so you weren't going to have a team of six anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 02:58:19 No.45670825 Report

Quoted By:

>>45666693
>I've never understood the level curve thing.
Everyone is a low leveled scrub from the moment you beat Morty until Blue, even the pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 04:44:51 No.45671358 Report

Quoted By: >>45671463

>>45670668
At no point do you need your HM mule in a gym battle
Holy shit guys this isn't that hard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 04:47:44 No.45671370 Report

Quoted By:

>>45664656
Based. Crystal clear is also pretty fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 05:03:30 No.45671463 Report

Quoted By: >>45671479

>>45671358
>HM mule
What's the problem with the term HM slave?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 05:05:08 No.45671470 Report

Quoted By:

>>45657409
All i remember is togepi hogging up the spotlight till the end of the Johto era

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 05:06:54 No.45671479 Report

Quoted By:

>>45671463
Idk I only said because the person I responded to did
All the same to me

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 05:20:12 No.45671544 Report

Quoted By:

>>45670469
>>had to grind in front of safari zone for hours just so i can fight claire
you are just bad at the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 05:39:47 No.45671618 Report

Quoted By:

I think Johto is complimented nicely by Kanto and does a good job of building off of the first games, which is exactly what it should do as a sequel. Its more grounded in folklore and mythology, with technological advancements on the rise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 05:43:01 No.45671633 Report

Quoted By:

I beat the lance with a team of low 40 pokemon including sandslash, vileplume and a fucking poliwrath. Level curve is not an issue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Dec 2020 06:32:37 No.45671795 Report

Quoted By:

>>45658926
Gen5 objectively has better post-game

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