/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #45813197

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The straw that broke the camel's back

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:23:48 No.45813197 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>45813234 >>45813240 >>45813293 >>45813303 >>45813317 >>45813522 >>45814403 >>45815283 >>45818381

For me, it wasn't the culled roster, the shitty graphics, the refusal to abandon the gen 1 design philosophy (gyms, baddies, elite 4(3), champ, the end), etc. Those sucked, but at this point im used to pokemon having a counter intuitive approach to game design. The quote from pic related was when it all truly came crashing down, when it became clear that these people truly just don't give a shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:27:49 No.45813211 Report

Quoted By: >>45813285 >>45813302 >>45813522 >>45815231 >>45815240 >>45816262

oh no the exp share that I never had a reason to turn off can't be turned off whatever shall I do!?

this is the worst thing they've done since removing the withdraw and deposit options from the PC!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:31:56 No.45813234 Report

Quoted By: >>45813326

>>45813197
For me its always one step foward and two steps back.
I dont understand why they get rid of fine features that expand the world
>hordes, wild double battles, sos battles
All these should have been staple for some pokemon encouters to make them unique. Preevos calling parents, pack pokemon appearing as a pack...
I am personaly ok with same story over and over, but I wish starting from 4 gym they actualy have a chalange. Why Gym battles dont have holditems? This is the simple way to make battle more engaging. Why Gym battles dont have forced number of pokemon? Why Gym leaders usually have team with no strategy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:33:03 No.45813240 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813197
But this make sense. I used it all the time since gen 7

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:46:40 No.45813285 Report

Quoted By: >>45813287

>>45813211
Waaahhh just give me my animal crossing, I don't want to have to think or plan anything

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:47:17 No.45813287 Report

Quoted By: >>45813295

>>45813285
>I don't want to have to think or plan anything
pokemon never required this

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:48:36 No.45813293 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813197
Thats really stupid. Objectively like itsead of using a light switch just get a step ladder and unscrew the bulbs every time you want to cut the lights

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:48:52 No.45813295 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813287
That's my point, and I knew you'd say this.

The exp share argument is an argument fundamentally about the game's difficulty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:50:10 No.45813302 Report

Quoted By: >>45813311

>>45813211
>oh no these games piss easy and one of the only ways to add challenge is no longer possible.

FIFY

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:50:11 No.45813303 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813197
Ohmori.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:51:53 No.45813311 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813302
there are 102929 other ways you can arbitrarily handicap yourself, autismo.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:52:57 No.45813317 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813197
PUUUUHREEEAASSEEEE UNDDDAAAA-STAHHHND.....

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 06:54:08 No.45813326 Report

Quoted By: >>45813548 >>45813709 >>45815742 >>45819029

>>45813234
Because game difficulty is tuned for children. They know older fans will buy regardless, but children are the new costumers that need to be impressed, so they make the game as welcoming as possible to then. Only way to solve that is putting difficulty settings on the games, but that is way more work than the devs are ever going to have on this franchise (or when they do decide to work a bit more, they do it in the most moronic way like when they created difficulty settings for bw2 yet they could only be played after defeating the game and sharing with other players)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 07:35:41 No.45813522 Report

Quoted By: >>45813565

>>45813197
>we removed the feature because there existed another, greatly more inconvenient way to achieve the same thing.
Yea this is actually ridiculous. Anyone who defends this like>>45813211 is literally baiting, like there’s a 0% chance they actually believe their own defence unless they have a sub 70 IQ.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 07:40:50 No.45813548 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813326
that "difficulty" is insulting to even children. kids are dumb but the direction the games are going seem to think kids are braindead retards

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 07:44:53 No.45813565 Report

Quoted By: >>45813628 >>45815145

>>45813522
Yup, you're right. Fuck those people who defend Dragon Quest XI, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and Super Mario RPG, and Final Fantasy VII, and Persona 5, and Digimon Cyber Sleuth, and SMTIV! Shared exp baaaaaaad!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:01:04 No.45813628 Report

Quoted By: >>45813632

>>45813565

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:01:51 No.45813631 Report

Quoted By: >>45813636 >>45813651

>45813565
>comparing games with specific, dedicated, and strategy driven multi party member combat, with each member playing a specific role that facilitates needing to be kept up to speed to pokemon's piss easy 1v1 combat system that can be interchangeably steamrolled with virtually anything, solo.
bad bait, no (you) for (you)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:01:56 No.45813632 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813628
>if I pretend I know what goalpost shifting means, I can pretend I'm able to cope!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:02:58 No.45813636 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813631
>y-you're comparing different thing but I can't actually explain how the differences are relevant!
zzzz

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:05:55 No.45813651 Report

Quoted By: >>45813664

>45813632
>Goalpost of thread: Removing features and justifying it by saying there's a much harder and more inconvenient way it can be replicated instead is bad
>Non existent boogie man arguement you refuted: EXP share as a feature is bad
But while we're at it, >>45813631 is correct

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:06:24 No.45813654 Report

Quoted By:

Ohmori sympathizers need to neck themselves

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:08:13 No.45813664 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813651
>EXP share as a feature is bad
What's what you're arguing when you're crying about not being able to turn it off.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:08:23 No.45813665 Report

Quoted By: >>45813669

>4 5 8 1 3 6 3 6
>pointing out 3-4 party member combat with dedicated roles to a 1v1 combat system of a singular (two if you wanna be autistic) roles isn't "explaining the differences"
w e w, couldn't even keep it going for more than a single post, sloppy job sleepyhomo

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:09:25 No.45813669 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813665
Yes, that's the difference. But you didn't explain how the difference matters. Try harder.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:15:58 No.45813701 Report

Quoted By: >>45813707

We're reaching levels of "pretending to be retarded" that shouldn't even be possible, even for autism fueled bait campaigns

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:17:52 No.45813707 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813701
Which one is pretending to be retarded and which one is pretending pretending?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:18:07 No.45813709 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813326
>Because game difficulty is tuned for children.
Thats why suggested making dificulty skip in 3rd gym.
If you enjoyed game so far it can give you a chalange.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:20:31 No.45813720 Report

Quoted By: >>45813748

>45813664
This is quite simply an incorrect assertation, one can argue the reasonableness of removing an option without talking about the feature itself. Fact of the matter is ohmoris explanation is retarded
>45813669
While I'm at it I'll respond to this as well. This difference matters because in those games your whole party gains EXP due to the fact that the whole party sees use. The systems are balanced around it.
In pokemon they are still using the exp system that they had when only one party member gained exp, except now everyone gets that much. As a result EXP gain to several times faster, which only serves to allow gamefreak to make shorter games with less battles.
Here's a question you will try to dodge: Why not just split the exp gain instead of multiplying it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:28:11 No.45813748 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813720
>one can argue the reasonableness of removing an option
Removing it was reasonable because there's no reason to turn it off.

>Fact of the matter is ohmoris explanation is retarded
Not really. If you want to arbitrarily handicap yourself you can still do so. Just don't expect the game to bend over backwards for your retarded playstyle.

>due to the fact that the whole party sees use
Aaaaaand we get this misinfo again from a retard who hasn't played a single one of the games that were listed. Thanks for playing!

brb, going to go replay SMRPG without using Bowser the entire game again!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:36:59 No.45813772 Report

Quoted By: >>45813780

>he actually dodged the question

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 08:38:58 No.45813780 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813772
Which question?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 11:45:20 No.45814403 Report

Quoted By: >>45815050

>>45813197
There's nothing wrong with the Exp Share. Having to lead with one Pokemon, just to immediately switch it out to something else, for both of them to only receive 50% of the total Exp, is fucking boring and completely banal game design.

The problem comes from the fact that the games are trivially easy to begin with and the ease of training makes it comically so. The current Exp Share mechanic is perfect, it just needs a more challenging game built around it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 14:25:23 No.45815050 Report

Quoted By:

>>45814403
The easiest way to make the games challenging is to be underleveled though. I was severely under leveled for most of my playthrough of Shield and had plenty of trouble in spots, especially with wild pokemon. I was in my low 50s when I fought Hop for the very last time and I actually couldn't beat him because Zacian was just too broken and lvl 70.

My biggest complaint with exp share is that is removes your need to use multiple pokemon. I noticed I was going hours of game time without ever using my starter or another pokemon because their levels were just keeping pace despite them sitting around doing nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 14:49:36 No.45815145 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813565
Those games don't have EVs faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 15:04:21 No.45815231 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813211
>oh no the exp share that I never had a reason to turn off can't be turned off whatever shall I do!?
Maybe because it trivializes the game in some istances (like when you decide to train just 6 pokemon for a simpler run instead of 30 rotating Pokémon) to the point that it becomes unrewarding and boring?
May as well start watching Teletubbies at that point, it's more thrilling.
Permaon exp share is also one of the many reasons why newer games are much less replayable as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 15:05:57 No.45815240 Report

Quoted By: >>45815708 >>45818412

>>45813211
They KNEW turning off the EXP share was popular in Gen 6 and 7 as a method of increasing difficulty.
This quote confirms that they just don't give a shit about what hardcore fans think.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 15:11:23 No.45815283 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813197
There were a lot of things for me, but I think Gen 7 was definitely the dropping point. So many things of Gen 8that made everyone else angry made me angry too, but I think it was just the way that they handled sun and moon that made me realize they were heading in the wrong direction. people dump on Gen 6, but I actually had a lot of fun playing x and y because it still felt like a genuine Pokemon game. I just do not like the way that gen 7 operates: a serious lack of routes and exploration, so many one off Pokemon that seemed based more on a gimmick above anything else, hardly a post game unless you really like ultra beasts, the game lags like crazy, quality of life features were cut...

I've given it a lot of thought, and I really do think that Gen 5 were the last pure Pokemon games and gen 6 with the last legit ones. I didn't pick up Sun at all since I beat it other than to transfer Pokémon to home, and I skipped sword and shield which does bother me because some of it seems interesting but the entire package just disgusted me.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 15:23:04 No.45815402 Report

Quoted By: >>45815518 >>45815928

It's a tie between...
>"we stopped putting Battle Frontier in because kids are more interested in playing on their cellphone but also we made Pokemon Let's Go because most kids don't have cellphones :^)"
and...
>"we try to start from square one with each gen and ignore anything that may influence the next one (let's just glaze over how gens 5, 6, & 8 had a nearly identical backstory involving a king or two monarchical siblings overcoming a transgression to stop a vague cataclysm)"

You can whine about nu-pokemon being too easy but at least you can rotate your team or stop grinding. The only thing you can do about gamefreak rehashing story beats and dropping great features is replay the old games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 15:34:39 No.45815518 Report

Quoted By: >>45815572 >>45815575

>>45815402
Gen 8's story was shit, but you're completely off base. There was never a squabble between the two kings, they just banded together with Zacian and Zamazenta to neutralize the threat
Also, Zekrom and Reshiram were split apart in the first place by the argument between the two kings, I don't know where you got the whole "put your differences aside
but from. It seems like you're bullshitting the lore just for the sake of making a point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 15:42:43 No.45815572 Report

Quoted By:

>>45815518
He's right though. Gen 5, 6, 7, and 8 all have this weird obsession with royalty, aliens, and meteorites.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 15:43:03 No.45815575 Report

Quoted By: >>45815632

>>45815518
>In gen 8 the two kings have no opinion on each other instead of having gotten into some kind of argument
So you're saying gamefreak rehashed that same backstory about a king or kings stopping a vague cataclysm three times and took one thing out to make it different? Thanks for the clarification.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 15:48:24 No.45815632 Report

Quoted By: >>45815671

>>45815575
again, you're bullshitting
There was no threat to be taken care of in Gen 5, the brothers just made Unove and then started fighting, splitting the dragon apart. They stopped, but their sobs continued the fight, leveled Unova and then the dragons all disappeared until recently.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Tao_trio#Myths
there wasn't a threat in fucking XY either, actually. There wasn't even the idea of two kings, not were they putting their differences aside. It was a war between two sides that AZ abruptly ended by nuking the shit out of both of them with the Ultimate Weapon.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ultimate_weapon
Why are you talking about things you clearly know nothing about?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 15:55:37 No.45815671 Report

Quoted By:

>>45815632
>gen 5: the differences of two kings cause a cataclysm
>gen 6: the former king causes a cataclysm
>gen 8: two kings work together to stop a cataclysm

Still unimaginative but thanks for the clarification. I'll keep that in mind next time I'm shitting on gamefreak's lack of creativity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 16:00:51 No.45815708 Report

Quoted By: >>45815739 >>45818333 >>45819081

>>45815240
More grinding doesn't make the game more difficult

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 16:05:00 No.45815739 Report

Quoted By: >>45815751

>>45815708
Retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 16:05:38 No.45815742 Report

Quoted By: >>45815781 >>45816371

>>45813326
Kids liked the older games and gen 7 plenty. While they are also easy they arent quite as easy as something like the gen6 games and swsh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 16:06:31 No.45815751 Report

Quoted By:

>>45815739
Yes, if you think needing to grind a little more makes the game harder, you are indeed a retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 16:11:39 No.45815781 Report

Quoted By: >>45816031 >>45816041

>>45815742
>Kids liked the older games and gen 7 plenty
Pity too many of them couldn't finish DPPt, leadig to Game Freak then desiging the games specifically to ensure the child could reach the endgoal, have the potentiality to finish the game.
Can't make 'em smarter, can drag them by the eyeballs thrugh a region to make sure the wee cunts can't get lost though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 16:29:34 No.45815928 Report

Quoted By:

>>45815402
I don't give a fuck about story. These games were never about story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 16:45:30 No.45816031 Report

Quoted By:

>>45815781
I was a stupid kid but I asked my friends in elementary school whenever I was stuck in a Pokémon game. And now kids have the internet, this is no excuse and they know it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 16:46:26 No.45816041 Report

Quoted By: >>45816336

>>45815781
DPP was the issue? I always thought the harder of the gen4 games was HGSS because of the level curve.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 17:17:02 No.45816262 Report

Quoted By: >>45816332

>>45813211
> he plays with expshare on
you must be 18 or older to post on four channel.
lemme guess, you prefer switch over set, too?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 17:25:43 No.45816332 Report

Quoted By:

>>45816262
kys

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 17:26:19 No.45816336 Report

Quoted By:

>>45816041
HGSS' level curve makes the game stupidly easy though. For the most part you're severely overlevelled and when it comes to the point where the levels actually jump up, most kids are just gonna have their starter that they put all their Exp into sweep them regardless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 17:33:48 No.45816371 Report

Quoted By: >>45818349

>>45815742
Gen 7 was pretty neat with the idea of Ace Trainers that are stronger than the others on each route that you had to beat to get certain items like Choice Specs and Flame Orb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 22:23:22 No.45818333 Report

Quoted By:

>>45815708
I never understood this argument, fucking N O B O D Y turns the exp share off just so they can grind to make up the difference, they do it so they can tackle the challenges at the lower level they would end up at.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 22:26:03 No.45818349 Report

Quoted By:

>>45816371
Yea gen 7 was filled with cool shit like this, it’s ONLY flaw was being way too rail roaded. Even if the plot required linearity they still didn’t need to stop you as often as they did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 22:27:45 No.45818367 Report

Quoted By:

I think it's obvious that they wanted to bring the game on par with other party rpgs where you functionally have ex share that can't be turned off.
It's just that they should realize that taking freedom of choice from the players always feel bad and they should have came up with a better answer than "deal with it nerds"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 22:29:11 No.45818381 Report

Quoted By: >>45818390 >>45818530

>>45813197
Christ you people are ridiculous sometimes.
The problem isn't the Exp Share. Nearly every modern JPRG takes an approach where everyone gets experience from battles. It's called quality of life, and it's one of the few things Japanese developers have added that actually makes JRPG gameplay less of a chore. This is a country that LOVES grind, and making you walk to opposite ends of the map to complete objectives. For once, they did something to streamline things.

The problem isn't the Exp Share. It's that the game isn't well-balanced.

And it's NEVER been well-balanced.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 22:30:36 No.45818390 Report

Quoted By: >>45818416

>>45818381
So glad westerntards like you have no impact on Japanese games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 22:34:01 No.45818412 Report

Quoted By: >>45818939

>>45815240
>They KNEW turning off the EXP share was popular in Gen 6 and 7
No they didn't, because there's no reason to turn it off. The vast majority of players leave it on.
>b-buh muh arbitrary difficulty
Find another way to artificially handicap yourself, autismo. Nothing's stopping you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 22:34:33 No.45818416 Report

Quoted By:

>>45818390
Cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 22:51:30 No.45818530 Report

Quoted By: >>45819043

>>45818381
Christ your reading comprehension is abysmal.
The problem isn't rooted in the EXP Share itself, it's his apathetic, almost contemptuous reaction to people taking issue with it no longer being toggleable. As someone stated earlier, it's the equivalent of someone asking where the light switch is to turn the lights off, and being met with "lol, just get a ladder and unscrew all the bulbs when you don't want em on".

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Dec 2020 23:49:53 No.45818939 Report

Quoted By:

>>45818412
yawn

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 01 Jan 2021 00:02:12 No.45819029 Report

Quoted By:

>>45813326
>they make the game as welcoming as possible to then
>1 hour long tutorial about pokeballs right after just telling them "btw we keep them in this thing"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 01 Jan 2021 00:03:30 No.45819043 Report

Quoted By:

>>45818530
>almost contemptuous reaction to people taking issue with it no longer being toggleable.
Makes sense, considering those people are in the minority and are also somehow too retarded to figure out other ways of handicapping themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 01 Jan 2021 00:08:03 No.45819081 Report

Quoted By:

>>45815708
It's not about grinding you idiot, it's about not being 10 levels above the toughest trainers if you just play the game as intended.

Mandatory Exp. Share wasn't a thing for years, and nobody even needed to grind. Battles were still piss easy, but at least it was more unlikely for you to sweep the whole E4 and Champion because you're way overleveled by just playing the game as is.

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