/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #46260855

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Try and Improve pokemon

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:14:36 No.46260855 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>46260887 >>46260921 >>46260998 >>46261093 >>46261258 >>46261611 >>46261798 >>46262829

It’s been a heavy point of contention in the past 8 years that pokemon has become so much easier.
>Come up with any ideas to make pokemon battles as difficult as possible while staying somewhat fair, make tough ones feel satisfying to beat and that aren’t made trivially easy by abusing the type matchup system to win.
>find ways to make the story feel as impactful as possible
>any other details that’d greatly improve the experience

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:15:35 No.46260863 Report

Quoted By:

Newfag

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:18:28 No.46260887 Report

Quoted By:

>>46260855
>It’s been a heavy point of contention in the past 8 years that pokemon has become so much easier.
? No it hasn’t. The game that came out 3 years ago is harder than anything else in the series and no one except absolute retards plays this series for challenge anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:22:25 No.46260921 Report

Quoted By:

>>46260855
>It’s been a heavy point of contention in the past 8 years that pokemon has become so much easier.
Where? Not on /vp/. Sure they've become easier, but people stopped complaining about that around XY since there were bigger problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:26:20 No.46260958 Report

Quoted By: >>46261148

Organically introduce concepts like IVs, EVs, and Breeding moves/natures/abilities to the players without instantly giving them tools that break these mechanics wide open like supertraining.
Rework early shitmons to be valuable by giving them desirable moves early but not the BST to use them efficiently, then encourage the players to use them to breed their moves onto stronger late-game 'mons with restricted movepools. 1% chance for Yanma is a lot more tolerable if it knows U-Turn out the gate and you can't get it on a Scizor without breeding AND THE GAME COMMUNICATES THIS EFFICIENTLY.
Get more mileage out of the midgame by having Gyms and E4 members acknowledge your character's assistance and interact with you to stop Team X instead of you just kind of stumbling through that between badges. Johto kinda did this right but it did a lot else wrong.

All of this of course assumes that GF is willing to actually embrace Pokemon having an appreciable difficulty curve. Organic difficulty is one of the biggest problems this series has had since Gen VI, and GF not respecting its audience enough to believe they can tackle a real RPG has led to a huge slew of the design microproblems that lead in to the current generation being so bland. If you want people to invest time into this franchise, that time needs to be properly rewarded within the core gameplay progression in order to drive player engagement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:31:17 No.46260998 Report

Quoted By: >>46261076 >>46261093

>>46260855
Ditch type themes for gyms and either theme them around something else like similar species or ditch themes entirely.

Have gym leaders get to 6 pokemon faster. recent gens have had a decent variety in early routes allowing you to fill your team with a much wider variety of pokemon early on and the gyms should be changed to account for this.

just do this, most of the hard battles in previous games were not gym leaders and therefore didn't have these restrictions on their team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:41:38 No.46261076 Report

Quoted By:

>>46260998
>Ditch type themes for gyms and either theme them around something else like similar species or ditch themes entirely.
Type themes are important traditionally because a blind player should not have to go up against a stronger team of Pokemon they're completely unfamiliar with. The Type theme means you always know roughly what types of Pokemon can counter the gym even if you haven't encountered them yet.
You might think this isn't important since most players have a lot of background knowledge on Pokemon, but I found in my totally blind playthrough of SwSh that there were a lot of Pokemon whose typings weren't immediately obvious to me, especially since I hadn't played a core game since Sinnoh. Its easy to take game knowledge for granted.
SwSh also had the best possible out for this with League Cards, which could have given you advanced knowledge of the Leader's Pokes or theme without them needing to be monotyped, but of course GF is fucking lazy and League Cards serve no actual fucking gameplay purpose.
>Have gym leaders get to 6 pokemon faster. recent gens have had a decent variety in early routes allowing you to fill your team with a much wider variety of pokemon early on and the gyms should be changed to account for this.
Agree, but also - give gym leaders actual strategies and team synergies. This isn't too hard to do, and can be communicated with buildup dialogue so that the player isn't likely to be blanked more than once by the gym's team if they pay attention. Use double battles more too and design the gym leader's AI to do simpler versions of the kinds of strats real pro gym leaders use. Why doesn't a single Psychic gym leader use Trick Room? Etc etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:44:27 No.46261093 Report

Quoted By: >>46261110

>>46260855
>make sure normal opponents have good IV and EV distributions, while making them fantastic or near perfect for rivals, gym’s and other significant battles
>let opponents use more held items than just berries
>decrease the power of attacking moves in general as well as the effectiveness of healing moves and items so PP drains quicker
>maybe make it so when you get to a certain point, you’re level capped and can’t go above it, so any gained EXP gets turned into the EXP candy items from SwSh
>make the multipliers on both STAB and super-effective moves less powerful as well
Can’t think of other stuff
>>46260998
Wait, what about instead of making more battles 6 on 6, how about implementing the same rules the anime does? Like where you and your opponent can only use the same amount of Pokemon as each other. So say if you came across Roark’s gym in DPP, and you had a team of six, the game forced you to choose only three pokemon to use in the battle

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:47:13 No.46261110 Report

Quoted By: >>46261206

>>46261093
The anime is stupid
If the player has put in the effort of training 6 mons, the game should let them use those 6 mons. If the player is just carrying 5 deadweights and an OP Starter the 5 deadweights aren't going to impact the battle anyways.
Gym leaders really shouldn't have less than 3 mons anyways, unless they're built around small team strategies (Brock's Geodude using Stealth Rock and his Onix just Roaring or using Bide is a good example of a microteam strategy for a first gym).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:50:56 No.46261141 Report

Quoted By:

Oh, and actually make the Pokedex DO something. Like let it give you opponent typings automatically in battle (can be restricted when necessary like for Legendaries), let it give you a peek at your Poke's next move or potential egg moves, let it give you really specific locations to catch Pokemon, etc.
The tradeoff could be that you need to spend a turn scanning a wild/enemy Pokemon to get this info, or that you need to encounter a Pokemon in battle or in the wild X number of times to get more accurate info on it unless you catch it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:51:25 No.46261148 Report

Quoted By: >>46261182

>>46260958
this is how it should have been, strong pokemon getting mostly weak moves and weak pokemon getting all the cool interesting moves.
This is the balance I desire.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:55:28 No.46261182 Report

Quoted By:

>>46261148
The games also already have the toolkit to invert this balance so that shitmons aren't stuck purely as breed fodder - if Yanma sucks dick and needs to get Ancient Power to evolve, have something in the game world communicate this (fucking call the Bill equivalent to ask about how your Pokes evolve and get a hint) and then breed one with your late-game Fossil pick to get a Yanma that can evolve to Yanmega and get a BST jump in one level.
Sudowoodo can't learn Woodhammer naturally but put it in Bonsly's Egg Movelist and breed Sudowoodo with an Abomasnow, boom you have a Sudowoodo with its best move and it can pass it to all your other grass mons.
Like this is so fucking easy but GF can't be assed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 16:58:46 No.46261206 Report

Quoted By: >>46261227

>>46261110
I suppose so but I sort of like how the modern games make 6v6 battles feel special. I do still stand by the idea of restricting the amount of Pokemon you can use per battle as it could make for much harder battles early on without seeming to daunting or overwhelming for new players. It”d make it so you can’t use deadweights as switch in fodder to heal up team members anywhere near as effective as it is currently

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 17:02:27 No.46261227 Report

Quoted By: >>46261513

>>46261206
>I suppose so but I sort of like how the modern games make 6v6 battles feel special
You've developed stockholm syndrome.
>It'd make it so you can’t use deadweights as switch in fodder to heal up team members anywhere near as effective as it is currently
Battle items are already insanely busted and Switch mode should probably be removed as an option entirely. But even in Switch mode, deadweights aren't useful enough as a pivot tool to warrant restricting players that actually use their 6 mons to the fullest, and reducing Gym Leaders to smaller teams greatly limits the capacity to design their fights.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 17:07:02 No.46261258 Report

Quoted By: >>46261295

>>46260855
Introduce regular balance patches, which buff/nerf/change certain Pokemon, moves, types. abilities, ect. Similar to pretty much every other online game

Gym Leaders now have a full team, by the 4th gym

No more gimmicks like Megas, Dynamax, ect

Reintroduce difficulty levels, but implement them in a way that isn't autistically retarded

Update certain evolution levels/methods
Example: Make Gen 5 Pokemon evolve earlier. Slowpoke now evolves into Slowbro when lvl-up w/ a Shellder in the party, ect

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 17:11:55 No.46261295 Report

Quoted By:

>>46261258
>Introduce regular balance patches, which buff/nerf/change certain Pokemon, moves, types. abilities, ect. Similar to pretty much every other online game
This just opens up room for GF to be more lazy. Pokemon doesn't need constant rebalancing and tweaking, it just needs to do a hard reset on its power creep and commit to staying under a limit of BST and move damage.
>Gym Leaders now have a full team, by the 4th gym
Yes
>No more gimmicks like Megas, Dynamax, ect
Yes. Or make Megas a permanent evolution type so those designs aren't wasted, but otherwise kill gimmicks.
>Reintroduce difficulty levels, but implement them in a way that isn't autistically retarded
Agreed. Hard mode can just be permanent Set mode, no items in battle and some better gym leader teams.
>Update certain evolution levels/methods
>Example: Make Gen 5 Pokemon evolve earlier. Slowpoke now evolves into Slowbro when lvl-up w/ a Shellder in the party, ect
100% this. Make evolving some pokemon more interactive and involved, and cut out trade evolutions entirely. A really good way to do this is to replace or modify old Key Item systems with Pokemon - make various Pokemon able to fish or act as your bicycle, and some have evolution tied to that like Slowpoke fishing up a Shellder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 17:34:48 No.46261513 Report

Quoted By: >>46261734

>>46261227
>get rid of switch mode
Agreed entirely
>Battle items are busted
Agreed as well but why not make the effects of them less busted and make sure opponents have access to them as well?
>reducing gym leaders to smaller teams greatly limits the capacity to design their fights
Depends on how much you limit them. If it’s only two pokemon, I agree but anything with 3 or above allows for a myriad of incredible combinations of type coverage, resistances, attacks and strategies in of itself, while also limiting your own ability to deal with them as well by restricting what you can use to the Pokemon you catch at that time

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 17:42:18 No.46261611 Report

Quoted By: >>46261771

>>46260855
They should restructure the majority of the game so it's not entirely single battles. Trainer battles and gym leaders/elite 4 should be the only single battles in the game, and there should be much fewer trainers out in the world than in the current games. Wild battles should have varied formats and not be initiated by random encounters, and the story should be adjusted to accommodate this.

An example of this could be in one part of the game, you need to defeat a Salamence that's terrorizing a village. You have to battle your way through the cave where it lives while getting attacked by other wild pokemon that are allied with the salamence. These wild battles should various formats, like horde battles, triple battles, maybe even some new crazy shit like you send out 2 pokemon to go against 3 wild pokemon, but the 3 wild pokemon are in a rotation battle format. Then once you get to the salamence, it is either dynamaxed, or a totem, or buffed up in some other way and you can go 4 of your pokemon vs the 1 salamence like a raid battle.

The fights against the evil team grunts should also not be normal single battles. They're the bad guys, they should try to cheat by ganging up on you or spamming items in battle or something.

Gym leaders, elite 4 members, your rival, etc. should remain standard single battles. It would make sense lore wise anyway, as single battles could be the official pokemon league format so you only do them in official league battles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 17:57:20 No.46261734 Report

Quoted By: >>46262675

>>46261513
>Agreed as well but why not make the effects of them less busted and make sure opponents have access to them as well?
Because if they're not busted they're not worth using, and if they're useless AND the enemies use them more it just wastes your time.
Using items in battle is just a relic of Pokemon's classic RPG roots and it feels crowbarred in.
>by restricting what you can use to the Pokemon you catch at that time
This is antithetical to the point of the games, though. Catching lots of Pokemon should be integrated into the process of building a strong battle team, not further separated as a sidequest of the campaign for more people to ignore.
And despite your claims to the contrary, building interesting and thematically appropriate teams around only 3-4 Pokemon is much harder than doing the same for 6.
Regular trainers having microteams that can do weird synergistic strategies is probably a better implementation of that idea, though, since they aren't restricted by typing/theming and usually don't need to communicate a specific character archetype through their team. More Ace Trainers and Breeders with weird teams and less Fishermen with 6 Magikarps or Hikers with 1 Explosion Graveller would be better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 18:01:21 No.46261771 Report

Quoted By:

>>46261611
Thanks, I hate it.
>no consistent gameplay experience, kitchen sink nonsense instead
>typical JRPG plot contrivances for boss fights instead of exploring a unique modern world
>resurrecting failed gimmicks for these bosses to further alienate the player from the core gameplay
>evil team is just made annoying by using the most obnoxious gameplay mechanics possible instead of real battle design
>ultimate goal of becoming the champion is still treated like a boring sidequest and not the core motivation for the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 18:05:11 No.46261798 Report

Quoted By:

>>46260855
>We should make all of our memes like this so Instagram normies won't be able to steal our memes anymore.
The G unown is so retarded that this actually filtered me.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 19:53:39 No.46262675 Report

Quoted By: >>46262965

>>46261734
>because if they’re not busted then they’re not worth using
How does that work? Do you mean shit like choice items and life orb, focus sashes, etc or other stuff like potions and stat enhancers?
>this is antithetical to the point of the games
I think I fucked up the wording a bit, I’m sorry. I mean like, the series isnt really about catching every pokemon anymore, but making bonds with and using the ones you enjoy or have connections to; catching them all has basically been a side quest since generation 3 for most people anyway as new players find it too daunting and boring, casuals moreso just play for fun and long time fans are more likely to design teams they want to use before booting up and starting the game in the first place and ignoring the whole catch them all stuff entirely. The only time people ever really go to complete a Pokédex is because the incentive of a shiny charm is incredible. Also, it’s how the Pokemon games have operated for 25 years, like Brock’s gym, you can really only beat him with whatever you can catch or already have, like your starter, mankey’s, nidoran’s, etc to deal with him whereas he can use an Onix with shitloads of defence, something the player cannot encounter in the game for a while.
>building interesting and thematically appropriate teams of only 3-4 pokemon is much harder than doing it for 6
Agreed, but I believe that’s a good thing, from both a game design standpoint and a player standpoint. Yes, having more options does make things easier but when you restrict what someone can do, it forces them to come up with different ideas they likely wouldn’t ever consider to get over a problem, something which I feel is more in tune with pokemon as a series overall

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 20:16:17 No.46262829 Report

Quoted By:

>>46260855
>complaining about your stolen memes being stolen by another site.
This is why I prefer 4chan, at least everyone knows and accepts that everyone steals memes here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 20:32:14 No.46262965 Report

Quoted By:

>>46262675
I'm fundamentally opposed to your idea of what a Pokemon game should be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Feb 2021 20:36:22 No.46262988 Report

Quoted By:

just fix the ai

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