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Why is Lame Freak like this?

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 00:46:02 No.46768351 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>46768976 >>46769808 >>46770293 >>46779188 >>46779882 >>46785311

>Hey, should we give these Pokemon reasonable stats, abilities, and movepools so that can not be completely worthless?

>Nah, Let's make them suck so that Charizarderino can look better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 00:47:02 No.46768360 Report

Quoted By: >>46768397 >>46769797

>Wobbuffet
? post elo

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 00:53:12 No.46768397 Report

Quoted By: >>46768891

>>46768360
Technically Wobbbufet still is a shitmon in the format Lame Freak cares about, cut you know what I'll fix it just for you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 02:06:10 No.46768891 Report

Quoted By: >>46768900

>>46768397
>the format Lame Freak cares about
Pachirisu won a world tournament in that format.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 02:07:15 No.46768900 Report

Quoted By: >>46773242

>>46768891
Because it filled a very specific role that it can't do anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 02:17:30 No.46768976 Report

Quoted By: >>46769767

>>46768351
Johto was a stillborn rushed generation meant to sell plushies so they didnt care about giving them good stats or moves. The pokefad was quickly dying and they needed to chase after the girly market to stay afloat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 04:19:26 No.46769767 Report

Quoted By:

>>46768976
This. Johto was never designed to stand alone.
It was always meant to be West Kanto.
Even if the new mons were shitmons, it was okay because they were meant to add onto the Kanto dex, not be their own dex.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 04:25:02 No.46769797 Report

Quoted By:

>>46768360
>Wynaut
first your adress

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 04:27:49 No.46769808 Report

Quoted By: >>46769928 >>46784936

>>46768351
Because there needs to be weak Pokemon in order to teach players what makes a Pokemon Good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 04:53:29 No.46769928 Report

Quoted By: >>46770915

>>46769808
Don’t preevolutions already fulfill thar purpose of weak Pokémon? Ledian is so ungodly awful it’s circles around to be impressive then circle around again to just being pathetic.

It doesn’t help that Lame Freak decided that Johtomons just be weak as fuck overall, The region already gets shit one because Lame Freak decided Kanto should mog it in its own goddamn gen and now this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 06:31:08 No.46770293 Report

Quoted By:

>>46768351
if you're going to like johtomons you should just accept that johto as a region was very rushed because of how successful kanto was, the pokemon being awful reflect this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 10:04:09 No.46770915 Report

Quoted By:

>>46769928
I'd say it is genuinely impressive how bad Ledian is.
It fails on every single level a Pokemon can, mechanically speaking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 10:13:32 No.46770935 Report

Quoted By: >>46771425

How are there so many players that get autistically assblasted that worthless competitive mons exist even though a competitive player would understand that not everything can be equally viable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 10:20:21 No.46770953 Report

Quoted By:

There's a difference between a Pokemon that's unviable and unusable. Tauros was unviable in BW OU but I was still able to make it work in quite a few fights. The Pokemon in the OP's pic except for Wobbufett are useless even in the deepest depths of Smogon tiers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 10:34:10 No.46770991 Report

Quoted By: >>46772382

Pokemon is an RPG, imbalance is what makes it fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 10:36:41 No.46770995 Report

Quoted By: >>46771408 >>46771424 >>46771431 >>46771958 >>46774409

Ledian has the stats it needs for when its found. Wobbufett is a gimmick. Delcatty is meant to be a literal housecat. Pachirisu has clearly defied the odds. Idk about Delibird - it comes late, its a gimmick but that gimmick makes no sense, and has been cursed with the worst typing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 12:26:44 No.46771408 Report

Quoted By: >>46771666

>>46770995
>Ledian has the stats it needs for when its found
Ledyba evolves at level 18. By that time, even Totodile, the latest evolving starter, would already have evolved into Croconaw, which has better stats than Ledian despite not even being fully evolved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 12:29:45 No.46771424 Report

Quoted By:

>>46770995
>Ledian has the stats it needs for when its found
What the fuck are you talking about? By the time you can get a Ledian it's absolutely worthless. The fucker doesn't evolve at level 10.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 12:29:57 No.46771425 Report

Quoted By:

>>46770935
>y'know, it kinda sucks that these pokemon are literally completely worthless in every single way with no niche whatsoever
>OH SO YOU WANT ALL OF THEM TO BE EQUALLY VIABLE?!?!?!?! THAT'S LITCHERALLY IMPOSSABLE!!!!!!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 12:31:30 No.46771431 Report

Quoted By: >>46771665 >>46777452

>>46770995
>the worst typing
>ice/flying
Ice/flying is bad but there are worse typings to have. Bug/grass is probably the penultimate worst typing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 12:43:06 No.46771488 Report

Quoted By:

Some pokemon are bad because the the developers wanted objectively bad RPG enemies, either to make the intended audience of little kids to feel good by easily defeating things, or to give it a gimmicky moveset and defy the player's expectations/be obnoxious (e.g every trainer mon with attract or confuse ray).

If you want to use a good version of them, download something like Renegade Platinum, or even look for tutorials about modding the games and create exactly what you want.

If you are specifically pissed off that some RPG enemies are incompatible with competitive formats, you should get a better hobby than a children's game

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 13:14:33 No.46771665 Report

Quoted By: >>46771794

>>46771431
Bug/Ice is the worst.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 13:14:53 No.46771666 Report

Quoted By: >>46771750

>>46771408
Ledyba levels up faster than Totodile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 13:30:26 No.46771750 Report

Quoted By:

>>46771666
Ledyba requires less exp to level up.
But because it's shit and can't pull its weight, it won't be participating in as many battles, won't be getting as much exp, and won't be leveling up as much.
So in practice, unless you're going out of your way to use Ledyba, Totodile will probably level up faster despite being in a slower exp group.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 13:38:41 No.46771794 Report

Quoted By: >>46771963

>>46771665
Bug/Ice is good offensively if you have the speed to use it. Bug/grass is just worthless.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 14:15:09 No.46771958 Report

Quoted By:

>>46770995
>Idk about Delibird
Don't forget that Delibird gets a hidden ability that is functionally identical to one of its normal abilities.

Being Delibird is suffering

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 14:15:56 No.46771963 Report

Quoted By: >>46775673

>>46771794
>Bug/Ice is good offensively
What does Bug cover that Ice doesn't?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 15:22:13 No.46772382 Report

Quoted By: >>46772547

>>46770991
>imbalance is what makes it fun.
Yeah it’s fun when you’re a Kantorino starter that gets special snowflake forms just for existing, or Shillderace who gets fucking everything. What about those of use who were intentionally cucked out of having movepools just so the aforementioned shills can look better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 15:51:55 No.46772547 Report

Quoted By: >>46773380 >>46779195

>>46772382
Literally who cares? Not every Pokemon is going to ever be viable, or even good. It adds some challenge to the games if you want to use them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 17:51:02 No.46773242 Report

Quoted By: >>46774460 >>46778367 >>46779062

>>46768900
What’s this “very specific role” I keep hearing about?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 18:10:23 No.46773380 Report

Quoted By: >>46773398

>>46772547
The real issue that that Lame Freak decided to be clever and add a PvP component without giving a shit whether or not anyone outside of their privileged favs actually get to be useable.

The fact is the competitive viably is important to how the Pokémon is perceived. Everyone loves a winner, that's just the world we live in. Literally every day we get a thread, shitting on Johto because Lame Freak made so many Johtomons so ungodly weak. It's already gets called West Kanto and now this?

What's worse is that the being a Shitmon is effectively a never ending cycle
>Pokémon is a shitmon
>Gets either ignored or shit on by the fanbase
>Lame Freak sees this and ignores the Pokemon while giving Charizard another buff
>Power Creep occurs
>This Pokemon gets EVEN worse in comparison
>Lather, Rinse Repeat until the Pokemon is nothing a but a punchline, Like "Worse Charizard" over here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 18:12:39 No.46773398 Report

Quoted By: >>46773940 >>46774267

>>46773380
PvP is, and always has been, an afterthought.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 19:11:58 No.46773940 Report

Quoted By: >>46773980

>>46773398
There was literally an interview that confirmed they design Pokemon with PvP in mind.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140830002329/http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/keeping-an-eye-on-the-game/

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 19:15:29 No.46773980 Report

Quoted By: >>46774152

>>46773940
>2014
PvP was a fun side mode when Typhlosion was designed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 19:34:57 No.46774152 Report

Quoted By: >>46774159

>>46773980
Yet Game Freak took it upon themselves to improve other Pokemon that were designed in the same era. Thing is Typhlosion isn't completley worthless, but its the one stuck with the stigma of WORSE CHARIZARD, because Lame Freak can't be arsed to give it anything to make it stand out while giving Charizard everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 19:36:00 No.46774159 Report

Quoted By: >>46779877

>>46774152
>popular pokemon get special treatment
You should be a detective. You're good at this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 19:47:14 No.46774267 Report

Quoted By:

>>46773398
PvP was an afterthought until Gen 5, when their competitive scene got big and online functionality became practical

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 20:03:15 No.46774409 Report

Quoted By:

>>46770995
>Ledian has the stats it needs for when its found
Ledyba is literally as strong as fucking Magikarp and has to rely on Tackle to do any damage... Except practically everything else that you can find are stronger and more useful than it.
I agree with you about the other shitmons tho.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 20:08:10 No.46774460 Report

Quoted By: >>46778367

>>46773242
I think it was something about being a special wall that could paralyze while ignoring taunt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Apr 2021 22:24:50 No.46775673 Report

Quoted By:

>>46771963
Hits Dark and Psychic supereffectively. Hits Ice and Water neutrally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 01:52:56 No.46777452 Report

Quoted By:

>>46771431
Being 4x weak to rock is a prerequisite to being the worst type combo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 02:15:17 No.46777637 Report

Quoted By:

good thing idgaf about comepetitive bc competetitive is for dumb nerds with no life lololololol unless ur actually making money why bother

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 04:21:43 No.46778367 Report

Quoted By:

>>46773242
>>46774460
It was also that it has Follow Me (which doesn't have the limitations of a Powder Move like Rage Powder) and paired well with Gyarados due to Volt Absorb.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twx9Qq-7Xpo

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 07:25:08 No.46779062 Report

Quoted By:

>>46773242
Its main role was redirecting electric moves to protect Talonflame and Gyarados.
But it could also paralyze while taunted with Nuzzle, and cut opponents' HP in half with Super Fang, meaning it always had offensive presence, even with no investment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 08:06:45 No.46779188 Report

Quoted By: >>46786694

>>46768351
For some reason they are very slow to fix older mons.
My main problem is 80% of pokemon in game dont fit their descriptions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 08:08:21 No.46779195 Report

Quoted By: >>46779499

>>46772547
You can make pokemon viable in many other ways. The fact they dropped contests and never made contest meta (or even just online competitions) was a HUGE miss.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 10:04:23 No.46779499 Report

Quoted By:

>>46779195
Remember in X and Y when the rivals were meant to represent different ways to enjoy Pokemon games, but battling was still the only way to progress?
Imagine if you could tell the gym leaders to fuck off and make progress by filling the Pokedex instead? Or by doing contests, or dance competitions, or some shit?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 12:14:51 No.46779877 Report

Quoted By: >>46779884

>>46774159
>the problem is not that popular pokemon get stuff, it’s that unpopular Pokémon are actively made worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 12:17:28 No.46779882 Report

Quoted By: >>46781283 >>46781578

>>46768351
Pachirisu won worlds?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 12:17:50 No.46779884 Report

Quoted By: >>46782284 >>46782303

>>46779877
>it’s that unpopular Pokémon are actively made worse.
How? What unpopular Pokemon has gotten nerfed?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 16:48:44 No.46781283 Report

Quoted By:

>>46779882
True but that was mainly due to there being less options available to fill its role.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 17:31:02 No.46781578 Report

Quoted By: >>46782253

>>46779882

Pachirisu was just the Incineroar of that particular tournament

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 19:05:41 No.46782253 Report

Quoted By: >>46783938

>>46781578
Pachirisu was only used by one guy.
Incineroar is used by everyone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 19:10:24 No.46782284 Report

Quoted By:

>>46779884
Its not so much that unpopular Pokemon are nerfed, it's that certain Pokémon are actively made bad so that they won' overshadow a Pokemon Game Freak wants to be popular.

Typhlosin: No special movepool when Earth Power and Ancient Power are perfect for it (so it won't overshadow Charizard)
Meganium: No Sleep Powder, Rage Power, Calm Mind (so it won't overshadow Venusaur)
Zamazenta: No Body Press (So it won't overshadow Zacian)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 19:12:53 No.46782303 Report

Quoted By: >>46782410

>>46779884
It's not so much that unpopular Pokemon are nerfed, it's that certain Pokémon are actively made bad so that they won't ever become popular, usually so that they won'd overshadow one of Game Freak's shills.

Typhlosion: No special movepool when Earth Power and Ancient Power are perfect for it (so it won't overshadow Charizard)
Meganium: No Sleep Powder, Rage Power, Calm Mind (so it won't overshadow Venusaur)
Zamazenta: No Body Press (So it won't overshadow Zacian)

Those are just the most blatant examples.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 19:22:36 No.46782366 Report

Quoted By: >>46782569

idk what they were thinking with ledian at all, it doesn't evolve as early as the kanto bug you find in the same route, it has invested sp.def when all the early gyms are physical anyway, it has better sp.atk when it learns all physical moves, it's so bad for no reason

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 19:27:06 No.46782410 Report

Quoted By: >>46783859

>>46782303
That just goes back to
>popular pokemon get special treatment

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 19:46:50 No.46782569 Report

Quoted By:

>>46782366
also forgot to mention that they didn't even try to remedy any of this in later games even though they made it clear that he should be a physical attacker with iron fist and elemental punches

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 22:38:53 No.46783859 Report

Quoted By: >>46784752

>>46782410
More like certain Pokemon get special treatment because GF wants them to be popular.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 Apr 2021 22:47:09 No.46783938 Report

Quoted By:

>>46782253

I'm not talking in terms of usage, I meant in terms of it providing a wide variety of support functions in a single package. And as far as I know there were other people who used it in the LCQ and Day 1 that year. They, like Sejun, realized how good redirection that wasn't Amoonguss was going to be in that tournament.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 00:32:22 No.46784752 Report

Quoted By: >>46785228

>>46783859
Charizard was already popular before it got moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 00:58:53 No.46784936 Report

Quoted By:

>>46769808
t. Mark Rosewater

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 01:41:55 No.46785228 Report

Quoted By: >>46785303

>>46784752
That's the case for Charizard, sure, but modern shillmons are planned to be shillmons.
Cinderace wasn't an accident.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 01:51:34 No.46785303 Report

Quoted By: >>46785358

>>46785228
It's literally stupid how much more powerful Cinderace and rillaboom are compared to intellion
Intellion is my least favorite but I feel bad for it, gamefreak picks favorites and makes it obvious

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 01:52:52 No.46785311 Report

Quoted By: >>46785953 >>46786730

>>46768351
>Dude just make all pokemon ubers lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 01:55:27 No.46785331 Report

Quoted By:

I don't think Gamefreak themselves planned competitive balance until about Gen 6
Which was also when Charizard got 2 megas, Greninja got protean, and Riolu's priority phasing got patched so it wouldn't overshadow Lucario

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 02:00:03 No.46785358 Report

Quoted By:

>>46785303
This. Typhlosion and Meganium were doomed to be unloved shitmons two years before they fucking existed. Typhlosion was robbed of a movepool to make Charizarderino look better, and Meganium was given nothing to make Masuda's favorite look better.
Seriously how fucking petty do you have have to be to create something just to set it up to fail?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 03:39:10 No.46785953 Report

Quoted By:

>>46785311
>NOO ONLT SHILLS AND LAME FREAKS FAV's SHOULD E USEABLE

No one wants everything to be Ubers (which isn't even possible by definition). We just want everything to be viable or at least have the gap between Pokémon be narrow to the point were everything can at least be useable. Radical Red pretty much proves that Lame freak CAN buff all the Pokémon that need it, the only reason they don't is due to favoritism or flat-out hating some Pokémon (and by extension their fans)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 05:45:15 No.46786694 Report

Quoted By:

>>46779188
>very slow to fix older mons.
Except the starters from KANTOOOOO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 Apr 2021 05:53:36 No.46786730 Report

Quoted By:

>>46785311
Not everything has to be Ubers, but would it kill GF to at least have every fully evolved mon be somewhat useful? Not even extremely useful, just a tiny bit.

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Why is Lame Freak like this?