/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #46918864

[324 / 52 / ?]

84KiB, 451x507, smologo.jpg

Smogon having heated debate over luck-based items

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:21:13 No.46918864 View View Reply Original Report

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/re-king%E2%80%99s-rock-and-other-%E2%80%9Cluck-items%E2%80%9D.3682896/

How will the meta change when King's Rock and Lax Incense are banned?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:22:46 No.46918880 Report

Quoted By: >>46918906 >>46919076 >>46924144

they're fighting a battle they can never win.
luck is an important part of pokemon's balance, especially with accuracy and activation chance for items.
lax incense isn't even that good, jesus christ.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:23:11 No.46918882 Report

Quoted By: >>46920119

Did Zamazenta-C stay banned?
>How will the meta change when King's Rock and Lax Incense are banned?
Very little since the meta naturally filters out sack wins, but it unfortunately doesn't make the salt go way.
The next ban should be Rillaboom

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:24:28 No.46918901 Report

Quoted By: >>46918907

OMGON BAN LAX INCENS
HEAVY DUTY BOOTIES IS OK

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:25:19 No.46918906 Report

Quoted By: >>46918995 >>46919095 >>46919132 >>46919160 >>46919250 >>46919543 >>46924724 >>46924743 >>46925445 >>46925501 >>46926379 >>46926594 >>46930369

>>46918880
>luck is an important part of pokemon's balance
no it's not, the game would unironically be better with no damage rolls and 100% accuracy moves balanced around PP

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:25:21 No.46918907 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918901
heavy duty boobies haha

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Strabby.jpg, 123KiB, 1024x872

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:25:34 No.46918909 Report

Quoted By: >>46919460 >>46920125 >>46924798 >>46926683

>>46918864
>NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T HAVE FUN PLAY BY OUR RULES OR BE EXCLUDED FROM THE POKEMON COMMUNITY

>see that bromon you like? DON'T EVER USE THAT POKEMON WITH THE INTENT OF WINNING GAMES

People who support smogon are mentally ill incels, you have to be a son of a bitch loser to prefer the cancer that is the smogon fanfic meta over playing with your bros and waifus
FACT

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:25:53 No.46918913 Report

Quoted By: >>46919007 >>46925591 >>46928979 >>46930391

>>46918864
They banned evasion for being too RNG dependant, this is the next logical step to take
Then we can finally have the discussion about banning Paralysis and Confusion, which turn the whole game into a luck-fest
And then there's still the matter of moves having damage ranges and crit chances, so it's time to ban using moves altogether
And once nobody is allowed to use any move at all, maybe we can all collectively agree that Pokemon as a competitive game is fundamentally flawed and no amount of bans and clauses to try to put a bandaid over what is ultimately NOT a real competitive experience will ever make this shit worth it, and we can all get on with our lives.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:32:40 No.46918976 Report

Quoted By:

shitmogon is a joke they should just play chess and stop being retards

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:34:32 No.46918995 Report

Quoted By: >>46919084 >>46919087

>>46918906
Unironically kill yourself
You seriously dont understand jackshit dude

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:34:34 No.46918996 Report

Quoted By: >>46921232

>>46918864
*clicks Dynamax button*
I dont give a fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:36:08 No.46919007 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918913
This
Pokemon is fun the way it is with its crits and evasion stuff

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:41:32 No.46919059 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
evasion clause for Brightpowder and Lax Essence are ok to ban but...

>muh hate for luck-based items
Jesus Christ! Why don't they ban Lando and Toxapex or Heavy Duty Boots instead? These bunch of idiots are turning their metagame into a chess board.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:43:50 No.46919076 Report

Quoted By: >>46919258

>>46918880
>luck is an important part of pokemon's balance
Literally the only thing balanced around luck are (most) moves.
Even then, the only moves “balanced” around RNG are moves which have no other downside like Fire Blast or Hydro Pump.
Moves like Scald, Draco Meteor, and Toxic either have a very poor reason to exist, already have a massive downside, or are not powerful enough to have lower accuracy.
Abilities like Flame Body, Sand Veil, and Effect Spore are literally just luck based abilities, and some items like Bright Powder are just the same.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:44:49 No.46919084 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918995
no u

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:45:38 No.46919087 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918995
It unironically would be so much better if moves “balanced” around luck were rebalanced to have some other downside.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:46:40 No.46919095 Report

Quoted By: >>46919140 >>46919223

>>46918906
>no it's not, the game would unironically be better with no damage rolls and 100% accuracy moves balanced around PP
that would take away all the interest on the community as it raises prediction that results in pre-discouragement, not to mention that will move almost every mon that it's not on top 10 OU and Ubers right into Untiered

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:50:59 No.46919132 Report

Quoted By: >>46919146 >>46919157

>>46918906
>100% accuracy moves balanced around PP
that's even worse than playing the official Ranked ladder on the Switch, which by irony turns every damaging move below 120BP useless, not to mention that would be impossible because of moves such as scald being luck reliant (removing it would destroy interest in battling while making it 100% chance would turn the meta too broken)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:52:05 No.46919140 Report

Quoted By: >>46919161 >>46919488 >>46919543 >>46920702

>>46919095
>that would take away all the interest on the community
bullshit, everyone hates RNG except GF apologist cucks
everyone hates 200 turn games which is what huge PP totals do
cutting PP and raising accuracy solves both problems and gives a tangible penalty for not running your strongest moves on every mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:52:56 No.46919146 Report

Quoted By: >>46919206

>>46919132
also balanced around PP will not work at all, unlike They/Them, this isn't Stamina, and relying balance on PP would result into a metagame centered about stalling

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:53:28 No.46919152 Report

Quoted By: >>46919285 >>46920142

Banning evasion boosting items is fine. They should have done that from the beginning when they implemented the evasion clause.
Banning King's Rock is stupid. It's literally only viable on Cloyster and is no better than Serene Grace.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:53:43 No.46919157 Report

Quoted By: >>46919174

>>46919132
>not to mention that would be impossible because of moves such as scald being luck reliant
scald is 100% accurate retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:54:04 No.46919160 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918906
2bh I'm surprised there isn't a 'Deterministic Pokemon' pet mod yet

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1570481540303.jpg, 67KiB, 720x687

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:54:11 No.46919161 Report

Quoted By: >>46919224

>>46919140
>bullshit, everyone hates RNG except GF apologist cucks
>every RPG game has RNG

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:55:23 No.46919174 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919157
fool, I'm talking about the Burn status, which is a prime example of luck

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:56:34 No.46919182 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
My god these people should just quit and play chess already
Also, I don't know I don't play singles

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:58:24 No.46919206 Report

Quoted By: >>46919358

>>46919146
>relying balance on PP would result into a metagame centered about stalling
Regenerator would be banned in such a meta, and no, it would actually kill stall since stallmons would run out of PP quickly
if you've ever stalled Pex with only Scald as offense, it's just a fat sack of shit when it can't attack you back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 18:59:54 No.46919223 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919095
>that would take away all the interest on the community as it raises prediction that results in pre-discouragement
You’re a moron if you think what attracts people to competitive Pokemon is RNG, or that people would leave if their predictions were not punished for being right while an unseen force decided to have your move miss.
And be honest, if GameFreak removed RNG and rebalanced the game with no RNG, you’d be praising GameFreak since no one legitimately enjoys having their strategy and tactics invalidated by a force you have no control over or can’t see in the first place. The people who like RNG in games where it doesn’t belong are bootlickers who will praise anything the company does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:00:01 No.46919224 Report

Quoted By: >>46919296 >>46919318 >>46919452 >>46919543

>>46919161
>LARP has RNG
look at how stupid you are, so addicted to nip cock you can't conceive of a world without gambling

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:01:09 No.46919229 Report

Quoted By: >>46919255

the fuck, are HDB still allowed? how the fuck is that shit not centralizing everything that can run knock off is running it even special attackers with shit attack

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Untitled.png, 244KiB, 468x240

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:02:56 No.46919243 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:03:47 No.46919250 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918906
PP is a meme, and also not balanced for competitive. it's balanced around multiple subsequent battles with no healing in between, which is a frequent situation in singleplayer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:05:04 No.46919255 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919229
> how the fuck is that shit not centralizing everything that can run knock off
it is
the stallfags banned Zamazenta-C for being a KO absorber so they can't "progress" through the game because of HDB
once Megas and Z-Moves come back those fags will be crying for both to be banned

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:05:43 No.46919258 Report

Quoted By: >>46919320 >>46919343

>>46919076
>Literally the only thing balanced around luck are (most) moves.
>Even then, the only moves “balanced” around RNG are moves which have no other downside like Fire Blast or Hydro Pump.
yeah, because their downside is being unreliable. that's the balance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:07:56 No.46919285 Report

Quoted By: >>46919345

>>46919152
King’s Rock is effectively evasion so long as you use an attacking move. And Cloyster shouldn’t be winning games because its effective 125 BP attacks also have a 40.951% chance to Flinch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:09:12 No.46919296 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919224
>LARP
who even plays LARP in the first place? a minority compared to video games. go back to >>>/tg/ wtf dude

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:09:48 No.46919302 Report

Quoted By: >>46919425

>>46918864
>"Uncle Dane made a phenomenal video about the nature of random critical hits in TF2"
This dude was so wrong in so many levels yet everyone believed what he said.
If anything crits reward good players and make things go faster. God I can already imagine the stall fest OU will be the day they ban crits all together.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO AUTISM.gif, 528KiB, 480x270

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:11:51 No.46919318 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919224
>comparing LARP to Vidya RPG or even board games
what?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:11:56 No.46919320 Report

Quoted By: >>46919344

>>46919258
>because their downside is being unreliable
that's not a downside in the same way recoil isn't a downside
if the high BP move raises your win % more than it misses, it's better overall

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:14:33 No.46919343 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919258
>yeah, because their downside is being unreliable. that's the balance.
That’s very shitty balance and it’s not the only way to balance a move by making it unreliable.
Overheat literally does this job better, and you could very well just make Fire Blast into a reverse roll-out.
Overheat gets more BP but drops your entire SpA, while Fire Blast is weaker and gets weaker using it consecutively, but you can always switch moves to make it strong again.
Now Fire Blast is balanced without RNG and it’s not a reliable way to beat certain walls.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:14:33 No.46919344 Report

Quoted By: >>46919375

>>46919320
1. recoil is a downside, it's not a very substantial one but the moves that have it aren't that great either
2. if the high BP move misses at times when you need it, you might be better off with a different move
you get it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:14:34 No.46919345 Report

Quoted By: >>46919425

>>46919285
>Cloyster shouldn’t be winning games
Show me Cloyster consistently winning games with King's Rock
like high elo or high tournament result wins

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:15:58 No.46919358 Report

Quoted By: >>46919381

>>46919206
>Pex with only Scald as offense
ironic since Scald would also be banned by % Burn RNG, to be honest the whole idea of removing RNG would destroy the meta as RNG is rooted in almost every aspect of the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:18:22 No.46919375 Report

Quoted By: >>46919401 >>46920824

>>46919344
>recoil is a downside
for OU mons it isn't. If I KO half your team using high BP recoil moves it was worth using it. Explosion loses me one mon and isn't even guaranteed to OHKO.
Recoil is only bad on shitmons like Starraptor that simply don't have the HP to eat the recoil damage
>you might be better off with a different move
no you retard
if I win 85% of my games running Fire Blast and 80% of my games running Flamethrower, why would I ever run Flamethrower?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:19:26 No.46919381 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919358
>% Burn RNG
the only person arguing this is you retard
this ENTIRE THREAD has been about ACCURACY, read the goddamn OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:22:42 No.46919401 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919375
>if I win 85% of my games running Fire Blast and 80% of my games running Flamethrower, why would I ever run Flamethrower?
where the fuck are you getting 80% from?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:23:04 No.46919406 Report

Quoted By: >>46919553

what a fucking joke, in what way are either of these items dominant or influential in the meta in any way? this is like how they banned fucking cacturne from adv ou. how did clefairy not get banned at 40% usage rate but this is the hot topic of discussion? fucking retards

you should be rewarded for playing these fringe, niche tech items. risk assessment is core to competitive pokemon, randomness will always be in pokemon, if you dont like it play a different game. this shit is no different from scald burns but thats still allowed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:25:54 No.46919425 Report

Quoted By: >>46919455 >>46919493

>>46919345
>Show me Cloyster consistently winning games with King's Rock
>consistently
That is why King’s Rock shouldn’t be in the game, anon. It’s inconsistent by nature, and that inconsistency can effectively decide a match based on a near coin flip.
>>46919302
>A game mechanic that only exists in TF2 and only just changes an RNG value the more damage you do, not preventing bad players from getting those RNG rolls, and doesn’t adress several other issues like teaching new players bad habits or not being fun for everyone else somehow means Pokemon, a game with set RNG values, can ignore those same issues like bad habits and the mechanic not being fun or competitive.
I also remember Uncle Dane adresses that “skill” favoring mechanic since it favors running out eith your melee weapon to hope you crit. And even made a Pokemon Analogy fittingly enough, which also adresses the habits of players who won’t learn how to deal with problems without luck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:28:07 No.46919434 Report

Quoted By:

If they do this they should ban serene grace as well

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:30:00 No.46919452 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919224
>compares VRPG to LARP
>uses LARP to assume that everyone hates RNG
>doesn't realize that even in LARP there's the coin flip scenario as an alternative method of selecting choices or leading routes

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:30:33 No.46919455 Report

Quoted By: >>46919560

>>46919425
>It’s inconsistent by nature, and that inconsistency can effectively decide a match based on a near coin flip.
this argument reeks of salty butthurt
if it's not consistent it's not a viable competitive strategy, it's no different from fucking quick claw
>I also remember Uncle Dane adresses that “skill” favoring mechanic since it favors running out eith your melee weapon to hope you crit.
fucking stupid since you have to AIM in TF2 and it doesn't matter if crits happen if you can't hit the target, and that applies to every weapon and every hitbox
Pokemon has 100% accuracy moves. Either make everything 100% accurate or nothing 100% accurate like in Gen 1. it doesn't make sense a 100 BP move would have 100% accuracy but 110 would be 85%.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:30:55 No.46919460 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918909
>Makes up strawman that nobody ever said based on her own paranoid delusions
>Calls other people mentally ill
lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:33:03 No.46919474 Report

Quoted By: >>46930476

if that's so then why haven't they banned stone edge and force everyone to use rock slide yet

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:34:50 No.46919488 Report

Quoted By: >>46919543

>>46919140
this, items like Leftovers should also be banned for increasing the odds of survivability

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:36:14 No.46919493 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919425
>"not preventing bad players from getting those RNG rolls"
>*Said bad player proceeds to miss all critical hits*
See?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:39:15 No.46919514 Report

Quoted By: >>46919545

>>46918864
King's Rock is cancer on Skill Link mons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:43:21 No.46919543 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918906
>>46919140
>>46919224
>>46919488
this is the point where thigs start to slip and the whole competitive thing would stop making sense, from the point you remove odds on everything you wouldn't need to run matches on Showdown and you could win via conversation between choices, which is basically why almost no one plays live roleplaying anymore, ... unless you turn it into chess, but let's be fair, chess would be more enjoyable than the chess'd meta as result.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:43:43 No.46919545 Report

Quoted By: >>46919565 >>46919579 >>46919624

>>46919514
cloisters is the only relevant mon that can use skill link + kings rock in any capacity and its currently in ru. the only time it was ever a good meta pick was when dracovish was unbanned. this is such a non issue to discuss, if youre losing to cloister outside of RU you probably deserved to lose

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:44:26 No.46919550 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
They weren't banned? I'm surprised.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:44:46 No.46919553 Report

Quoted By: >>46919572 >>46919598 >>46919600 >>46919673 >>46925480

>>46919406
>what a fucking joke, in what way are either of these items dominant or influential in the meta in any way?
You don’t have to be topping the usage charts to be ban worthy, or even good as a matter of fact.
Moody was rarely seen before being banned, and Moody wasn’t even that good. Not only did you require a Pokemon like Glalie and have it survive on its own, you also needed the approriate stat boosts to even try. Even then, Unaware and Haze exist to completely invalidate Moody. Despite Moody being a bad strategy, whether is works or not is out of both player’s hands, which is why it was banned.
Hopefully, the same happens with Sand Viel, Thunder Wave, and Swagger.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:45:59 No.46919560 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919455
fucking stupid since you have to AIM in TF2 and it doesn't matter if crits happen if you can't hit the target, and that applies to every weapon and every hitbox
To add to this, crits in Pokemon work differently as they're rolled independently of accuracy checks and will override accuracy if the crit rolls successfully.
Crits in TF2 aren't independent of accuracy, if you don't hit the target you don't get a chance at a random crit.
So a move like Stone Edge actually has 86% accuracy when the crit chance is taken into account.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:47:31 No.46919565 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919545
>It’s rarely used, so if you lose due to forces outside of you have no influence on, you deserve to lose
I guess Moody should be unbanned since Glalie isn’t a Meta pick and was never one either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:48:35 No.46919572 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919553
>Despite Moody being a bad strategy, whether is works or not is out of both player’s hands, which is why it was banned.
Why don't they ban Scald and things like Serene Grace and Crit-chance moves then?
This is not making any sense and will eventually generate a black hole in the meta over time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:49:05 No.46919579 Report

Quoted By: >>46919639

>>46919545
Gothitelle isn't even tiered. You must have had a lobotomy if you had literally any trouble with that mon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:51:35 No.46919598 Report

Quoted By: >>46919616 >>46919661 >>46919811

>>46919553
moody wasn't banned for Glalie, it was banned because of Baton Pass users like Smeargle who could just take a look at the harvested boost and give them to whoever the boosts would benefit the most, Moody wouldn't be an issue if Baton Pass was banned instead

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:51:38 No.46919600 Report

Quoted By: >>46919616

>>46919553
>Moody wasn’t even that good
No, Moody Glalie was viable. With Freeze Dry and enough lucky boosts it could steamroll unprepared opponents and constrained team building.
The original reason Moody was banned was because it boosted Evasion, but when Evasion was removed from the possible boosts the council thought it might be OK. Turns out instead it made Moody a lot more consistently powerful.
What you are claiming isn't supported by the Smogon threads. If it were banned by simply being noncompetitive Accupressure Tentacruel or Drapion would also be banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:54:17 No.46919616 Report

Quoted By: >>46919664

>>46919600
Moody is still inconsistent after the tweak, as it ruins the day if the -1 goes to Speed or the primary offensive stat instead. The main reason goes to this fella >>46919598

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:55:35 No.46919624 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919545
yeah but when the tournament players lose to something cheesy they get pissed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:57:05 No.46919639 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919579
Gothitelle was ou when shadow tag was legal, you braindead moron

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:59:07 No.46919661 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919598
Unironically this, Moody with Baton Pass is slower and has less chance to win in every possible scenario compared to Shell Smash + Baton Pass

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 19:59:27 No.46919664 Report

Quoted By: >>46919831

>>46919616
>The main reason goes to this fella
Baton Pass is banned in all formats from Gen IV onward. It was never legal in Gen VIII OU.
Moody was literally banned for Glalie, as the best hazer was Toxapex who would get its shit kicked in by Freeze Dry. The only viable steels at the time were dual typed to be neutral to ice (Corviknight and Ferrothorn).
You obviously weren't there and are just making shit up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:00:49 No.46919673 Report

Quoted By: >>46919815 >>46919826 >>46919829 >>46919848

>>46919553
the difference between moody (and evasion moves) and items like bright powder, quick claw and king's rock is that the rng is static. with king's rock icicle spear will always have 41% flinch chance, there is little to no scaling with these items. on top of this if you out speed cloister flinch chance is irrelevant, and since cloister is a slow pokemon this only happens after a shell smash.
And the fact that they take up an item slot is a big deal, cloister could run power herb or leftovers instead of king's rock. this is an sacrifice that is made in exchange for flinch chance. dracovish could easily run a choice item intead of quick claw to see similar success. dracovish was more of a problem because it completely warped the meta to the point where cloister was a viable counter to it, and seismatoad was on 1/4th of teams. quick claw was not the reason dracovish was banned. Also knockoff is readily available on so many pokemon to negate these items, i honestly cant see how a ban is justified.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:13:42 No.46919773 Report

Quoted By:

A literally do nothing bad nobody would even notice will get priority over things that would actually matter. Really makes you think.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:17:39 No.46919806 Report

Quoted By: >>46920166

>>46918864
Smogon was a mistake
Fucking banning everything
No fun or tactics allowed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:17:58 No.46919811 Report

Quoted By: >>46919910

>>46919598
So why is moody still banned and why was it banned after Baton Pass?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:18:47 No.46919815 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919673
>rng is static
bright powder + sand veil Garchomp

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:19:44 No.46919826 Report

Quoted By: >>46919893 >>46920153

>>46919673
RNG is still static on Moody, retard. How do you think moody works?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:20:06 No.46919829 Report

Quoted By: >>46919893

>>46919673
>this only happens after a shell smash.
>124+ Atk Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster in Grassy Terrain: 258-306 (107 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
complain about cloyster after Smogon bans Rillaboom like they should

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1536291446983.jpg, 23KiB, 150x150

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:20:25 No.46919831 Report

Quoted By: >>46919910

>>46919664
>You obviously weren't there and are just making shit up.
Since when was it banned? I've been there from 2008 to early 2017 and still didn't see any Baton Pass bans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:21:54 No.46919843 Report

Quoted By: >>46919867

Why not ban Scald first, that RNG is much more prominent and more reliable.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1536291446983.jpg, 23KiB, 150x150

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:22:40 No.46919848 Report

Quoted By: >>46919893

>>46919673
>RNG
>static

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:25:27 No.46919867 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919843
Scald is only broken on Pex, and if you ban Scald Pex will simply use KO which is also broken on Pex
the problem is Pex

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:28:57 No.46919893 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919829
im not complaining about cloister im saying its a shitmon
>>46919848
quick claw is always 20%, you cant alter the chance in any way
>>46919826
but moody scales, you can get +6 in evasion by chance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:31:42 No.46919910 Report

Quoted By: >>46919946

>>46919831
you've missed it by a mere string, you should get back to smogon or stop posting about it
>https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/baton-pass-has-been-banned-from-sm-ou.3605008/

>>46919811
Moody was banned way before Baton Pass was. Moody was firstly banned in 2011, while Baton Pass was only banned in 2017. You should also stop posting if you don't have info to back it up like the other anon above.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DMqSXfKXcAATHaQ[1].jpg, 25KiB, 310x310

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:37:20 No.46919946 Report

Quoted By: >>46922109

>>46919910
>follow smogon or stop posting

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:37:20 No.46919947 Report

Quoted By: >>46919968 >>46928873 >>46929085 >>46930480

>the year is 20XX
>smogon has finally gotten rid of all rng
>the most optimal battle strategy for each matchup is quickly calculated
>battles involve two players revealing their teams
>in a split second, the winner is determined, objectively
>finally, the pinnacle of Pokemon

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO elf_laughing.png, 101KiB, 210x195

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:39:08 No.46919968 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919947
my fucking sides

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 20:43:29 No.46920003 Report

Quoted By: >>46930489

>>46918864
If you ever needed proof that competitive pokemon is nothing but pure autism, there it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:03:14 No.46920119 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918882
The suspect will be over tomorrow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:04:35 No.46920125 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918909
Typhlosion sucks in VGC too man, that thing is terrible. The only place you can use it is in game

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:06:50 No.46920142 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919152
You're right.
Serene Grace should be banned.
It's complete cancer and nobody would miss it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:08:41 No.46920153 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919826
? moody does not boost evasion

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:10:13 No.46920166 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919806
>crossing your fingers and hoping for a flinch/miss is tactics

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:14:51 No.46920197 Report

Quoted By: >>46920215

Why are people retarded enough to think removal of RNG would make the games too predictable?
Your movesets, items, and EV spreads are still an unknown to the other player, as well as the decisions you'll make every turn.
And if you win from a surprise there, at least the victory was in your hands instead of being arbitrarily decided by a machine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:17:04 No.46920215 Report

Quoted By: >>46920255 >>46920277

>>46920197
>Your movesets, items, and EV spreads are still an unknown to the other player
not gonna happen when everyone reuses the same teams everytime

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:20:06 No.46920251 Report

Quoted By: >>46920272

Good thing I don't abide by Smogon rules. This doesn't affect anything with a brain

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:20:13 No.46920252 Report

Quoted By:

>over 10 years of literally nobody caring about these items
>they are suddenly a problem now
Who lost to one of these recently?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:20:16 No.46920255 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920215
Only shitters do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:20:35 No.46920262 Report

Quoted By: >>46920279 >>46924576 >>46924589

Can anyone actually unironically list a single "bad" decision Smogon has ever made? All this discussion is good and healthy, shows people are passionate and interested in making the game better. Usually most things amount to nothing except for things that genuinely make things funner for everyone

How can someone ironically say fucking VGC is more fun to play than Smogon singles? HOW?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:21:37 No.46920272 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920251
what exactly do you do besides jack off to Pokemon loli?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:22:11 No.46920277 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920215
Knowing that your surprise attack won't ever miss or get a bad roll to lose out on the KO would encourage more creativity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:22:55 No.46920279 Report

Quoted By: >>46920301

>>46920262
>Can anyone actually unironically list a single "bad" decision Smogon has ever made
Not banning drizzle as a whole in bw

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:24:55 No.46920301 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920279
but that goes against the mantra of /vp/ that smogon is too ban heavy. You're saying that they didn't go far enough with a ban. smogon is much more conservative than people here realize

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO STOP_STALL.png, 32KiB, 790x726

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:27:04 No.46920317 Report

Quoted By: >>46920334

>ban King's Rock
>do not ban Heavy Duty Boots

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:28:27 No.46920334 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920317
heavy duty boots has made many offensive mons much more viable too but go off

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1618829446295.png, 1MiB, 871x867

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:30:35 No.46920354 Report

Quoted By: >>46920587

>Offense players winning because of a 10% flinch is unacceptable
>Stall players winning because of a 30% burn is okay

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1615340402930.gif, 886KiB, 250x250

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:32:18 No.46920370 Report

Quoted By: >>46920430 >>46920502 >>46920516 >>46920761

DAILY REMINDER

>Smogon has banned the moody ability even though it doesn't boost evasion anymore, because it threatens stall. Despite this, Smogon has refused to ban Scald,a far more uncompetitive and RNG-based move, because it supports stall

>Smogon's one suspect test to UNBAN a Pokemon is because it supports stall, and because a Smoggie "influencer" wants it to be unbanned so they could make clickbait videos

>The smogon council is biased and bans offensive pokemon like darmanitan, cinderace, dugtrio and dracovish, while stallmons like ferrothorn, who see much more usage in ubers, are kept

>In generation 7 the ou council assured that landorus therian would not be banned even if it reached more than 95% usage

>Dynamax is not broken and smogonalgas banned it because stall could not adapt to it

>Smogon has not removed sand veil and swagger bans despite Gamefreak nerfing them in generation 6
>Evasion is not overpowered and can easily be countered by taunt, haze, roar, or moves like swift

>Heavy duty boots has been the most anti stall item in singles that the franchise has ever introduced, since it prevents damage from the most common status move used by stall. Of cousre a lot of smogontards are in a favor of banning it

>The move Baton Pass was banned from all smogon metagames because stall was completely unviable against baton pass supported sweepers

>Something not many people know is that the elo system in pokemon showdown doesn't mainly depend on you're winning ratio, but on the ammount of turns you're won battles take. So higher elo rated players are not better, just play longer battles, aka stall

>The VGC bans being based on the top 10 pokemon is something much more objective than the council quickbans decided by 5 normies or their elitistic suspects, were only a small minority of high elo players can vote. That's why a lot of things like dynamax had +90% pro ban vote, only stall users could vote.

FUCK SMOGON

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:40:17 No.46920430 Report

Quoted By: >>46920473 >>46920516

>>46920370
this was only funny the first 60 times, the other 600, not so much.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO images (1) (27).jpg, 19KiB, 555x553

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:46:45 No.46920473 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920430
>Smoggies still DESPERATELY trying to dismiss facts as "l-loll good joke bro"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:50:19 No.46920502 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920370
you forgot

>doesn't ban Lando-T from OU for over 8 years while defending that it doesn't define the meta, when in fact they state that S rank is exclusively for those who define the meta and now Lando-T is the only existing mon on the very rank

>They artificially make some mons like Clefable top Tier by banning their counters and checks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:51:58 No.46920516 Report

Quoted By: >>46920535 >>46920548 >>46920630 >>46920755

>>46920370
how are you not fucking banned still
>>46920430
just ignore, don't bait him, or he'll sperg out like >>46898296

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ___bruh.png, 371KiB, 341x443

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:55:26 No.46920535 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920516
>how are you not fucking banned still
>implying that we're inside smogon forums

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:55:49 No.46920539 Report

Quoted By:

Why don't we just make our own format with blackjack and hookers?
Showdown is open source, right?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1617508207710.png, 4KiB, 178x167

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:57:24 No.46920548 Report

Quoted By: >>46920613

>>46920516
>Something counters ClefPex
>REEEEEEEE BANITBANITBANIT
>Someone insults Smogon
>REEEEEEEE BANTHEMBANTHEMBANTHEM

Like poetry

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 21:57:36 No.46920549 Report

Quoted By:

praise genie of healthy meta

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO FBA07B17-DD31-4FAA-B049-1C75ED05 (...).jpg, 28KiB, 512x512

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:03:06 No.46920587 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920354
And the only mon that is actually good with the flinch chance is a defensive Shell Smash shitmon from RU that is immediately OHKO’d and outsped by Rillaboom, one of the most popular Pokemon in OU before it can shit out a 2+ Atk Ice Shard, which needs 2 hits to KO Rillaboom with. Smogon is a joke, lmao

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 254-300 (74.4 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster in Grassy Terrain: 244-291 (101.2 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:06:18 No.46920613 Report

Quoted By: >>46920689

>>46920548
>>Something counters ClefPex
Like Nidoking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:06:59 No.46920615 Report

Quoted By: >>46920634 >>46930502

>>46918864
holy shit the more I see of finchinator the more and more he looks like a mind-numbingly pretentious retard. Trying to get Zama-fucking-zenta unbanned is one thing but now this absolute drooling nimrod is trying to ban KING'S ROCK of all things just because Cloyster can occasionally use it to become a pain in the ass when other mons can literally flinch things that x4 resist them to death? I've fought a guy using both bright powder pex and mud slap blissey, and yeah I think it can be a little cheap to have to rely on accuracy memes to get around evasion but those things I wouldn't dare say are nearly bad enough to actually warrant a fucking ban. I beat him sure, but even if I had lost to him I still wouldn't want the items banned because they're not worth banning. The meta has enough shit as it is and this cunt is choosing to focus on garbage his salty ass got wrecked by instead of looking at ACTUAL PROBLEMS that exist in this trash heap. Their entire system is archaic in general; yet they stubbornly refuse to change anything about how they do things because they insist it still works perfectly when it clearly fucking doesn't.

What a fucking clown, my god. This is why I'm glad I switched over to National Dex where the guys in charge aren't nearly as fucking brain dead.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO G&P.png, 94KiB, 259x274

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:08:33 No.46920630 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920516
>how are you not fucking banned still

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:08:43 No.46920634 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920615
This, I'm starting to hate finchinator so fucking much.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 23B5A87F-E91A-4AB4-8ACE-FE7EECC5 (...).jpg, 32KiB, 600x906

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:12:22 No.46920650 Report

Quoted By: >>46924798

>The retards in the thread are also considering banning FUCKING FOCUS BAND just because it’s a chance item

Smogon being handled by absolute retards is the only thing that yawnfag will ever be genuinely right about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:18:41 No.46920689 Report

Quoted By: >>46920727 >>46920753 >>46920774

>>46920613
>Look guys! My UU shitmon counters an overpowered threat! This makes the meta good!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:19:29 No.46920696 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
Wait but if this is supposed to be an argument then non 100% accuracy moves should be banned as well. After-all things like Focus Blast missing is more common than King's Rock activating. That's luck as well

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:20:14 No.46920702 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919140
Are you a brainlet? Showdown without RNG would just result in many players forfeiting upon team reveal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:23:05 No.46920723 Report

Quoted By:

What pokemon even uses King's Rock besides Cloyster and especially shitmon Skill Link sets like Cinccino? Why are they a problem? Is it because Substitute Cloyster beats stall?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:23:57 No.46920727 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920689
>movinggoalposts.jpg

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:24:07 No.46920732 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
The only good thing smogon ever did was Pokemon Showdown. The rest belongs in the trash

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:26:45 No.46920753 Report

Quoted By: >>46920859 >>46920867 >>46920996 >>46925492

>>46920689
He's OU this gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:26:47 No.46920755 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920516
>how are you not fucking banned still
for? he's basically right

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:27:35 No.46920761 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920370
ferrothorn is critical as an anti-meta pick, they're not gonna ban it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:28:48 No.46920774 Report

Quoted By: >>46920867 >>46920996 >>46925492

>>46920689
He's OU you fucking uneducated moron

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:33:29 No.46920824 Report

Quoted By: >>46922669

>>46919375
>shitmons like Starraptor
Since when the fuck was Staraptor a shitmon?

All your other arguments are just as retarded. Please stop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:35:28 No.46920846 Report

Quoted By: >>46925238

What showdown SHOULD do to promote a competitive meta:

>Edit moves like Stone Edge and Focus Blast to have 100% accuracy
>Remove all paralysis chance from Thunderbolt, Freeze chance from ice moves, burn from fire etc..
>Fix sleep to always last 1 or 2 turns
>Remove critical hits when they are random or fix them (one every three/four hits, etc)
>Have paralysis always paralyze once every 2 turns
>Have scald always burn if it hits a pokemon twice in one game (or just always burn on hit)
>Remove flinch chance from Iron Head and Dark Pulse
>Have multihit moves like Triple Axel or Icicle Spear always hit twice
>Ban Acupressure
>Remove Bug Buzz's Sp. Def drop chance
>Have Hi Jump Kick always hit
>Remove Metronome

I sure hope our proud minds at MIT Smogon University truly do improve the competitive Pokemon scene. Pokemon has longstanding luck problems that need to be addressed through reprogramming the game to be more comp-attractive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:37:11 No.46920859 Report

Quoted By: >>46920910 >>46921663

>>46920753
>OU
>literally has mediocre stats
>gets devoured in Ubers unlike most OU mons
...wasn't some guy around here saying about "artificial threats"? I guess that he was based after all

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO images (2) (7).jpg, 16KiB, 528x581

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:38:01 No.46920867 Report

Quoted By: >>46921018 >>46921027

>>46920753
>>46920774
>UU shitmons like Porygon2 cone up to counter Specterier
>UNACCEPTABLE LOOK HOW OVERCENTRALIZING THIS POKEMON IS BANITBANITBANIT

>UU shitmon Nidoking rises to counter stallshit like ClefPex
>See!? This is why our ClefPex cores AREN'T overpowered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:40:51 No.46920910 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920859
It's OU based on usage. People are using it because it deals with 2 common threats (Clef and Pex). That doesn't mean it's a competitive monster, it just has a solid niche in the OU meta.

If Pex and/or Clef ever got banned, it'd be lucky to end up back in UU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:41:54 No.46920925 Report

Quoted By: >>46920993 >>46925245

If a player beats another player and the game lasts like 12 turns and does phenomenally, 6-0ing and managing the game perfectly, he earns elo.

If a player beats another player and it's a very close battle; and the victor made plenty of mistakes, and the game lasted 50 turns, this player earns way more elo than the first victor player.

Smogon's ladder artificially benefits stall users in the process of arising to the voting heights, and they've edited the meta to benefit stall ever since. Since King's Rock Cloyster can blow a hole in a stall team if the stall player mismanages, this is but another spasm of their pro-stall agenda. They want it banned. They want the only key to defeat stall being things like Nidoking

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:48:32 No.46920993 Report

Quoted By: >>46921090

>>46920925
? post source code

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1542322117522.jpg, 268KiB, 1057x1129

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:48:44 No.46920996 Report

Quoted By: >>46921126 >>46925254 >>46928994

>>46920753
>>46920774
>Nidoking
>banned from UU just because it counters something in OU
~ TEN YEARS AGO... ~
>Gastrodon is top tier in every single tier (sans LC and other side tiers at the time)
>NU
>seems fine
Jesus Christ, this is pretty much why Smogon community is devoid of any logic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:50:37 No.46921018 Report

Quoted By: >>46921076 >>46921105

>>46920867
>OU Chad Heatran obliterates Clef Pex
>Isn’t banned
Very sad, many such cases.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:51:16 No.46921027 Report

Quoted By: >>46921110 >>46921153 >>46921696

>>46920867
I never said anything about spectrier you strawmanning autist

Nidoking isn't UU, it is OU. It's powerful in general, not just for beating Clef/Pex. Calling it a shitmon because it has low stats is like calling Clefable a shitmon because it has low stats. It's fucking disingenuous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:53:59 No.46921056 Report

Quoted By: >>46921090

weird, back then on a similar thread someone told me about that algorithm while also telling me that I was a retard for not understanding how elo was gained

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO jigglebilly09-profile_image-4d37 (...).jpg, 17KiB, 300x300

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:55:56 No.46921076 Report

Quoted By: >>46921105 >>46921272 >>46922911

>>46921018
>252+ SpA Choice Specs Toxapex Mud Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 216-256 (66.8 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Wow what a "counter"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:57:00 No.46921090 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920993
>>46921056
Not that anon, but Showdown is open source and the repo is on Github.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:58:20 No.46921100 Report

Quoted By: >>46921123

Can you fucking mouthbreathers stop replying to yawnbait already? Every single thread turns into the same fucking shit because you masterminds think you're engaging in a "discussion" when replying to the most blatant bait ever. Guarantee you some retard will reply to the Mud Shot calc above.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:58:38 No.46921105 Report

Quoted By: >>46921151

>>46921018
>>46921076
>Heatran Choices into Flash Cannon
>Toxapex
>Heatran Choices into Lava Plume
>Blissey

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 22:59:07 No.46921110 Report

Quoted By: >>46921842

>>46921027
>only ou because a bunch of pokemon are gone
>was uu back when every pokemon was in the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:00:31 No.46921123 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921100
>get BTFO by someone pointing out smogon bias
>try to save face by "y-you guys are just responding to bait!!!!!"

Smoggies are pathetic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:00:53 No.46921126 Report

Quoted By: >>46921249

>>46920996
This post makes zero fucking sense, why the fuck would Gastrodon being in NU a problem and why would Nidoking be banned from UU because of some OU matchup?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:03:34 No.46921151 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921105
>Choice Heatran
>Lava Plume
? post elo

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tfw_not_real.jpg, 75KiB, 640x640

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:03:36 No.46921153 Report

Quoted By: >>46921266

>>46921027
>It's powerful in general
>gets curbstomped in Ubers in comparison to other OU mons
>struggles against other threats in UU
>went upon a rollercoaster between UU, RUBL and RU for over a decade
welp, that's some artificial powerleveling for sure

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:10:54 No.46921232 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918996
based

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:13:16 No.46921249 Report

Quoted By: >>46921280 >>46921287

>>46921126
Gastrodon had more reasons by being top tier in every tier while Nidoking, who had since then the same set until today, has been bouncing between UU and RU (including RUBL) for over ten years. Funny part is that Gastrodon checks and counters Nidoking... and its RU as of today. (what a surprise!)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:14:18 No.46921266 Report

Quoted By: >>46921590 >>46922682

>>46921153
How is that artificial? It has the right STABs, and gets a double boost between Sheer Force and Life Orb/Specs. Its breaks the stuff it's supposed to.
OverUSED is also based off of usage, shocking but true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:14:56 No.46921272 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921076
>Implying that Smoggies run anything other than cookie cutter sets
cringe

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:15:32 No.46921280 Report

Quoted By: >>46921425 >>46921535 >>46921567

>>46921249
You're still not making any fucking sense. Yes, Nidoking bounced between tiers. And now? Gastrodon has been good in higher tier for ages but is more of a niche pick and thus doesn't see too much usage most of the time. Once again, what is the point here?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO xDDD.png, 174KiB, 1051x1000

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:16:09 No.46921287 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921249
>Gastrodon had more reasons by being top tier in every tier while Nidoking, who had since then the same set until today, has been bouncing between UU and RU (including RUBL) for over ten years.
even worse than that: Gastro has a Uber entry in SS while Nidoking doesn't

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1613134182254.gif, 3MiB, 320x290

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:24:04 No.46921352 Report

Quoted By: >>46921432 >>46921570

Holy shit, you fags can't take an L.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:30:28 No.46921425 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921280
>"""niche pick"""
>has an entry for every tier, including Ubers
>Nidoking only has entry on OU and Monos and its niche relies on countering ClefPex
>#86 on the ladder (tied with a Kekvantula)
you're just giving the arguments that you need

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO images (1) (29).jpg, 38KiB, 560x548

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:30:55 No.46921432 Report

Quoted By: >>46921533

>>46921352
>Smoggies resorting to passive aggressive gifposting and logical fallacies because they aren't intelligent enough to make an actual argument

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:35:06 No.46921476 Report

Quoted By:

Why is this a problem now

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:42:14 No.46921533 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921432
>omgon bans everything that threatens their clefpex
>nidoking absolutely demolishes muh clefpex
>doesn't get banned

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:42:15 No.46921535 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921280
>"""niche pick"""
>Gastrodon has an entry on every tier, including Ubers
>Nidoking only has entries on OU and Monos
>it relies on the niche of countering ClefPex
your very arguments tell by themselves what you're looking for

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:45:45 No.46921567 Report

Quoted By: >>46921600 >>46921830 >>46926595

>>46921280
simple: why isn't Nidoking banned in Gen7 to OU aswell?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:46:11 No.46921570 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921352
>Smoggies want to ban even Focus Band, a much worse Focus Sash just because of the fact that it’s also a chance item just like King’s Rock and Lax Incense
>Want to ban an item that only an RU-OU-Niche shitmon that gets OHKO’d by Rillaboom benefits from can use properly
>Want to ban an evasion item that doesn't even give that much of a boost even when stacked with weather-based evasion abilities
>Somehow moves with major chance-based secondary effects like Scald, Toxic (90% Acc when not used by Poison-types), and other stall-supporting utility moves are perfectly fine by them

I don’t think we’re the ones that need to take an L here

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:49:05 No.46921590 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921266
if you take away all ClefPex counters except Nidoking its usage will obviously spike up, that's how artificial it is

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:49:38 No.46921600 Report

Quoted By: >>46921696 >>46921830

>>46921567
Because it doesn't have enough usage to be OU in gen 7?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Apr 2021 23:57:16 No.46921663 Report

Quoted By: >>46921830

>>46920859
I don't know about you, but 454 SpA doesn't seem mediocre to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 00:00:46 No.46921696 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921600
>Because it doesn't have enough usage to be OU in gen 7?
now, how will you defend this >>46921027 ?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1557215992647.jpg, 62KiB, 396x691

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 00:17:24 No.46921830 Report

Quoted By: >>46921842

>>46921663
see >>46921567 >>46921600
then think why

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 00:18:33 No.46921842 Report

Quoted By: >>46922116

>>46921830
>>46921110

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 00:47:40 No.46922109 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919946
Yes

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO smeggies.jpg, 50KiB, 550x550

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 00:47:56 No.46922113 Report

Quoted By:

>Smoggies realise their own logical fallacies
>Leave the thread out of shame

I accept your concession.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 00:48:02 No.46922116 Report

Quoted By: >>46922283 >>46922917 >>46924893

>>46921842
the only remaining mons missing were RU to PU entry shitmons and mons that were OU in Gen7, and I don't see Nidoking from Gen7 UU jumping to Gen8OU just because of only Breloom, Infernape, Empoleon, Chesnaught and Mega Manectric (which ironically Nidoking can counter all these listed). Which goes back to removal of others by banning counters, which led to Nidoking's usage raise that led to its ban by usage in OU for being the only counter to ClefPex.

Simply put, it fails to explain why is OU in Gen8 but not in gen7. To Nidoking, the Dex cut changed nothing, the bans within the tier (that eventually led to is usage) did. Hence the "artificial" formula.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 00:50:26 No.46922138 Report

Quoted By:

123
Thanks for the (you)

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1565631556729s.jpg, 2KiB, 108x125

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 01:05:05 No.46922283 Report

Quoted By: >>46922917

>>46922116
>I don't see Nidoking from Gen7 UU jumping to Gen8OU just because of only Breloom, Infernape, Empoleon, Chesnaught and Mega Manectric
Me neither and, to be honest, taking away things that Nidoking actually counters would just in fact lower its usage within UU, I'm starting to get the feeling that Smogon is a hack.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1593326418689.jpg, 13KiB, 286x268

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 01:05:56 No.46922293 Report

Quoted By: >>46922535

>ban king's rock
>but not flinch moves in general
huh? what? why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 01:29:30 No.46922535 Report

Quoted By:

>>46922293
That's a good idea! We should ban Iron Head and Dark Pulse too, don't want our Clefables caught unable to Cosmic Power

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 01:44:23 No.46922669 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920824
>Since when the fuck was Staraptor a shitmon?
Since Gen IV faggot

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO TOAD_LOL.png, 28KiB, 806x190

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 01:46:37 No.46922682 Report

Quoted By: >>46922807

>>46921266
you sound like the retards who were saying Seismitoad was a great mon and would stay OU after Dracovish got banned

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1389513944629.gif, 1MiB, 484x256

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 01:58:08 No.46922783 Report

Quoted By: >>46922935 >>46922945 >>46923936

As someone who just lost 18 out of 20 games on Randbat due to luck, I'm 100% in favor of the random element getting removed

>Switch Volcarona into Kartana
>Kartana SDs
>Fire blast next turn
>Miss
>Kartana hits
>Doesn't get burned
>Fire Blast again
>Miss
>Kartana hits
>Doesn't get burned
>+1 attack
>Lose game

>Opponent starts with Gyarados
>Switch into Galvantula
>He DDances
>Use Thunder (91% accuracy)
>Miss
>He OHKOs with Max Airstream
>Gyarados now at +2/+2 and I lose

>Playing smartly around my opponent and whittling down his Pokemon
>Manage to KO his Passimian with my Rotom-Wash
>He had Haxorus in the back wing
>He DDances and I miss will-o-wisp
>He 6-0 sweeps the rest of my team because of Dynamax and I lose a game I should've won

>About to win the match, 4 Pokemon against opponent's 1
>It's Togekiss
>Try to Body Slam it with Diggersby
>Flinch
>KO
>Try to Hydro Pump it with Kingdra
>Flinch
>KO
>Try to Flare Blitz it with Darmanitan
>Flinch
>Flinch
>KO
>Last Pokemon is Trevenant

Fuck random chance. I hate it. Remove it all I don't give a shit. I shouldn't be dropping from 1700 elo to 1400 because of nearly 20 games of bad luck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 02:00:07 No.46922807 Report

Quoted By:

>>46922682
Nidoking was C-rank in OU viability last gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 02:01:56 No.46922823 Report

Quoted By:

>Luck removed
>Anything that is luck based is now counter-based (IE, something with 20% chance to flinch now occurs after you've used the move 4 times)
>Crits are now determined by how long your Pokemon has stayed in rather than luck
There, I fixed Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 02:12:13 No.46922911 Report

Quoted By:

>>46921076
>Doesn't know that Scald deals more damage here
Do Anti-Smoggies REALLY?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 02:12:44 No.46922917 Report

Quoted By: >>46923941 >>46924105 >>46924112 >>46924163

>>46922116
>>46922283
Greninja you buffoons

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1576849543348.png, 63KiB, 625x485

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 02:15:44 No.46922935 Report

Quoted By: >>46922954

>>46922783
>complaining about RNG
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>randbats

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 02:16:52 No.46922945 Report

Quoted By: >>46922954

>>46922783
>Bitching about luck in RANDOM battles
dude, come on, you kinda set yourself up for that one

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 02:17:50 No.46922954 Report

Quoted By:

>>46922935
>>46922945
The Pokemon should be random, not the gameplay

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 02:29:11 No.46923028 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
I hope it doesn't go through.
Only because Smogon threads on /vp/ are insufferable enough, witnessing a bunch of retarded inbred monkeys talk about a format they don't even play /vp/ doesn't play VGC either. The morons here will never let it up if Smogon bans "luck-based items/abilities"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 05:07:02 No.46923936 Report

Quoted By:

>>46922783
>I'm 100% in favor of the random element getting removed
>including random battles
kek

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO _JUST_.png, 2MiB, 4175x2596

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 05:08:08 No.46923941 Report

Quoted By: >>46923966

>>46922917
GRENINJA IS OU, GOD DAMMIT!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 05:12:47 No.46923966 Report

Quoted By:

>>46923941
dude relax senpai, I know that their iq at smogon is kinda low but no need to fry over it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 05:19:25 No.46924001 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
Red through a little. Had a laugh. Not sure if they're trolling or genuinely degenerate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 05:42:37 No.46924105 Report

Quoted By:

>>46922917
Greninja is GenOU, having no link to neither gens UU nor to Nidoking being banned from it on Gen8
(doesn't connect Nidoking's viability to Gen7OU nor even connects with Gen6OU where Greninja was Uber, the Dex smaller and literally the same competition outclassing it that is also present in Gen8OU bar Kyurem-B... which got also banned and contributes even further for Nidoking's artificial tiering)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 05:44:14 No.46924112 Report

Quoted By:

>>46922917
Greninja is Gen7OU, having no link to neither gens UU nor to Nidoking being banned from it on Gen8
(doesn't connect Nidoking's viability to Gen7OU nor even connects with Gen6OU where Greninja was Uber, the Dex smaller and literally the same competition outclassing it that is also present in Gen8OU bar Kyurem-B... which got also banned and contributes even further for Nidoking's artificial tiering)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 05:51:29 No.46924144 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918880
It's an inherent part of shit balance.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1541910177750.jpg, 77KiB, 887x1097

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 05:55:59 No.46924163 Report

Quoted By:

>>46922917
>Greninja you buffoons
>Greninja never stepped at UU
how old are you? minors shouldn't be browsing this site

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 06:30:45 No.46924335 Report

Quoted By: >>46924502

>A major goal of our formats is to give as much control to the players as possible and prioritize skill and good positioning toward being the main factors that lead to the outcome of a match

I don't disagree per se, but this is so far removed from GF's vision that smogon might as well be another franchise at this point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 07:03:07 No.46924502 Report

Quoted By: >>46924524

>>46924335
I love how their argument for not removing crits and random attack chances is „its not possible on cartridge” when 120+ turn 6v6 battles are already impossible but allowed kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 07:08:07 No.46924524 Report

Quoted By:

>>46924502
I mean, they might as well remove paralysis, and remove the % chance of burn and freeze from moves. But I guess this would nerf scald and thus stall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 07:23:41 No.46924576 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920262
Testing Zamazenta-C at all, primarily because Blunder wanted YouTube Clickbait.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 07:27:58 No.46924589 Report

Quoted By: >>46924798

>>46920262
The whole concept of their tiering system makes no sense from a competitive standpoint.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 08:04:13 No.46924724 Report

Quoted By: >>46924780

>>46918906
You're retarded. You won't be going through all your PP in one battle so balancing moves based solely on PP is stupid. I'd be fine with no damage rolls, but we need stuff like accuracy at the very least. Added status chance also affects strategy. If Scald didn't have a burn chance we'd all be running Surf or Hydro Pump instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 08:09:45 No.46924743 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918906
basado

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 08:21:50 No.46924780 Report

Quoted By:

>>46924724
>You won't be going through all your PP in one battle
Because 8 PP is more than enough to sweep, but 4 PP isn't. A Volcarona with 4 PP of 100% Fire Blast is much less scary than 8 PP as it can be stalled more easily, thus pressuring it to rely on Flamethrower and reducing its ability to OHKO after setup.
Chansey with 5 PP of Toxic loses any ability to touch defensive mons after few switches and with 8 PP of Seismic Toss it has to reconsider running Stealth Rock in case it loses all offensive pressure.
PP management is literally the best way to manage the game and only retards who can't count to 10 wouldn't be able to adapt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 08:28:23 No.46924798 Report

Quoted By: >>46924886 >>46925650

>>46918909
Ranked Singles and Doubles each have 300K unique players each month. Smogon doesn't see nearly that much. On cart is waaaay more popular than Smogon, we just never knew the actual player numbers until they started showing them in Home.
>>46920650
Hasn't Focus Band been banned for over 10 years? I know it's been banned since before BW.
>>46924589
Because Smogon wasn't actually designed to be competitive initially. It was designed as a simple ruleset that two friends doing link battles could use before way back before large Pokémon tournaments were a regular thing (back when tournaments were done at conventions like Pokémon Festa and other official events before VGC happened in 2009). Rules at tournaments have always been no mythicals, but sometimes box legendaries were allowed. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Rule_variants

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 08:58:37 No.46924886 Report

Quoted By:

>>46924798
Most of these luck-based items have been repeatedly banned (for being luck based in principle) and unbanned (because they aren't significant enough to be a problem) throughout the years

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 09:01:01 No.46924893 Report

Quoted By: >>46926282

>>46922116
nah many things that could break through clef or pex like mega mawile were removed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 09:31:15 No.46925004 Report

Quoted By:

>smoggies STILL trying to convince people that ClefPex isn't busted

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Sad Face Emoji.png, 85KiB, 640x640

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 09:59:24 No.46925104 Report

Quoted By:

004
You dont play

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 10:30:24 No.46925238 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920846
This but unironically.
Smogon needs to decide if they want their meta to be faithful to the actual game, or if they want it to be good.
They're trying to have it both ways and failing in both regards.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO elo formula.png, 35KiB, 1520x732

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 10:32:00 No.46925245 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920925
Retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 10:35:32 No.46925254 Report

Quoted By: >>46925479

>>46920996
You do understand that Pokemon aren't manually placed into tiers, right?
Nidoking wasn't banned, it rose naturally to OU because it was being used a lot.
Gastrodon is a utility mon that can be good in every tier, but not quite good enough to be used frequently in OU and UU in gen 4. Note that it did become OU in gen 5 because it got used enough.
In fact, it's actually harder to go up a tier now than it was back then because now a mon needs 4.52% usage instead of the 3.41% in every other gen.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1549900331937.gif, 255KiB, 326x326

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 11:45:27 No.46925428 Report

Quoted By:

>see smogon thread
>realise I haven't played showdown in a while
>go to fuck around with my old LC team
>Your team was rejected for the following reasons:
>- Woobat is banned.
I fucking hate these faggots like you wouldn't believe

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 11:47:27 No.46925437 Report

Quoted By:

I hope Finchinator gets AIDS.
I swear he's behind every single retarded thing Smogon does/tries to do nowadays.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 11:51:41 No.46925445 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918906
Chance? In my JRPG that would decline in popularity if it was balanced around the mediocre competitive?

Fucking Japs ruining everything

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:01:43 No.46925479 Report

Quoted By:

>>46925254
I honestly think that people don't understand how tiers work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:01:56 No.46925480 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919553
the main point of thunder wave is for the speed drop, which is why they will never ban it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:03:33 No.46925492 Report

Quoted By: >>46925498

>>46920753
>>46920774
why do you think he's OU you collossal fagtards, if toxapex didn't exist he'd still be wallowing down in NU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:05:04 No.46925498 Report

Quoted By: >>46926421 >>46926475

>>46925492
Nidoking has never dropped below UU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:05:44 No.46925501 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918906
It would be boring

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:21:48 No.46925571 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
Stallgon back at it again

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:27:04 No.46925591 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918913
Based

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:44:05 No.46925650 Report

Quoted By:

>>46924798
Yeah no shit, I’m surprised this still has to be said on /vp/ which is apperentely stuck in gen 4 era when smogon was the only real way to play the game on comp level. Japanese competitive playerbase alone is huge and they dont know nor care about smogon. The Players Cup stream yesterday hit over 25k viewers, so unlike smash the official competitive ruleset is not obscure not matter how you slice it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 13:55:55 No.46925968 Report

Quoted By: >>46925992 >>46926021 >>46926685

>>46918864
>play poker
>start with a 7 and 6
>other guy starts with a pair of 10's and wins
WTF IS THIS LUCK-BASED CENTRALIZING BULLSHIT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 14:00:04 No.46925992 Report

Quoted By:

>>46925968
>t.never played poker in his life

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 14:06:02 No.46926021 Report

Quoted By:

>>46925968
I didn't know you could custom tailor poker hands to have 6 aces just like in pokemon. Damn I've been playing wrong the whole time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 14:44:16 No.46926282 Report

Quoted By:

>>46924893
that's an OU issue, it doesn't cover Nidoking's UU ban

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 14:53:28 No.46926364 Report

Quoted By: >>46926554

They should ban competitive discussion from this board because everyone is too stupid here to actually understand anything about competitive.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1618871468245.jpg, 11KiB, 248x256

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 14:55:19 No.46926379 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918906

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:01:28 No.46926421 Report

Quoted By:

>>46925498
gen 1

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:07:11 No.46926450 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
they should ban anything related to non guaranteed crits aswell

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:10:23 No.46926475 Report

Quoted By: >>46926526

>>46925498
Yes, it did. Especially Gen5 and Gen6 Era where it bounced between UU-UUBL-RU for at least 2 years, and most of the struggles at backing the bans and drops of it was by being compared to Nidoqueen for whatever reasons beyond human comprehension or because of whinning like "muh Braviary outclasses it on lower tiers".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:16:46 No.46926526 Report

Quoted By:

>>46926475
RUBL*

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1605128623437m.jpg, 89KiB, 1017x1024

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:21:22 No.46926554 Report

Quoted By:

>>46926364
>Tfw to smart for competitive Pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:26:34 No.46926594 Report

Quoted By:

>heated
What is a heated debate nowadays? Just people disagreeing on some things, regardless of major consensus?
>>46918906
good falseflag op

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:26:46 No.46926595 Report

Quoted By: >>46926878 >>46927496

>>46921567
Gen 7 had better wallbreakers with Megas and Z-moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:33:45 No.46926648 Report

Quoted By: >>46926660

I just want toxapex gone

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:35:55 No.46926660 Report

Quoted By:

>>46926648
kidoning

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:36:43 No.46926671 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
slippery slope here if they do it
next they'll have to ban moves with random effects and sub 100 accuracy too

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:39:21 No.46926683 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918909
smogon is literally the only place you can use some pokemon
the whole point of tiering is to give pokemon a chance to be used in a format where they're actually usable, smogon is far more supportive of using your bro than official formats
the only people who limit their choice in pokemon is faggots like yourself that make mindless assumptions like this instead of actually using their brain

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:39:37 No.46926685 Report

Quoted By: >>46926987

>>46925968
Poker actually does luck mechanics rights, unlike Pokemon.
A. The most important thing is information. You actually know what cards you have, and the objective is to figure out what cards your opponent has (based on their habits like reactions and betting, as well as the fact that no 2 cards are identical). Pokemon does not give the players this luxury. It is 100% surprise when you get a random crit or freeze.
B. Poker actually gives you one of the best options for when you get bad luck, which is folding your hand until next round so you stop betting. Pokemon has methods of dealing with RNG, but all those methods are extremely shit. Something like Battle Armor prevents crits, but no other type of RNG and provides no other benefits. Heal Bell can unfreeze Pokemon, but you only get 8 per user, and you can’t heal bell while frozen either. You also need to pack the select few Pokemon that would get these things onto a team of 6 too. And that is assuming a Pokemon even has “anti-specific-version-of-Hax” with them. Not to mention the fact that none if these methods are Pokemon’s version of folding. All the methods GameFreak gives you are either preemptive or damage control.
C. Poker literally could not be played without the luck. If everyone knew which order the cards would be handed out, the game would be just memorization of a set pattern. Pokemon, however, is almost always played as if RNG doesn’t exist already, with a few exceptions like Scald. Aside from those certain moves, the game generally is about prediction and good teambuilding, but RNG will come out of nowhere. Remove RNG from Pokemon, and most people will not notice it’s gone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 15:44:28 No.46926722 Report

Quoted By:

Despite the fact that "Pokémon" and "Poker" share four letters, they are entirely separate and different games. Weird how that works.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 16:05:17 No.46926878 Report

Quoted By: >>46927025

>>46926595
>Gen 7 had better wallbreakers with Megas and Z-moves
Why Doesn't Braviary leave NU if that's the case? Also, Gastrodon checks and counters Nidoking, has a entry for almost every single tier (including Ubers), it walls most wallbreakers, and it just got banned to RU. By that logic Gastrodon should be banned to OU for the lack of wallbreakers at the point of promoting a mon that by irony is walled and countered by Gastrodon.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO formerly_UU.png, 18KiB, 160x199

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 16:18:23 No.46926966 Report

Quoted By: >>46927582 >>46928782

*cough* Help me... I'm dying! ...........

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 16:21:47 No.46926987 Report

Quoted By: >>46928786

>>46926685
>Remove RNG from Pokemon, and most people will not notice it’s gone.
They will, as if that happens people will just forfeit at team reveal all the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 16:28:37 No.46927025 Report

Quoted By: >>46927144

>>46926878
mons rise by usage, not banned because "it's a good counter to x in ou" anon
Ditto always resides at the lowest tier and is currently untiered, but it is only as good as the mons it is copying, so it's pretty much good anywhere and got strats for every tier barring LC.
If you want Gastrodon to rise to OU, then use it in the tier. A band of really good players can collectively put actual shitmons Ledian in OU by usage, though you're basically fighting with 5 mons only at that point and you'll drop below the threshold where your games would be counted.
Gastrodon is just another very versatile and good mon that doesn't get used a whole lot Quagsire should also be mentioned.
Any mon in any metagame and tier is heavily context dependent. The backdrop is usually the staple mons that never seem to go anywhere (which in OU is stuff like Landorus-T, Garchomp, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, etc.) and the metagame settles around those or any new upcoming to-be staple mons. This goes for lower tiers as well. You tend to have anchoring "most used" mons which the meta will build around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 16:47:29 No.46927144 Report

Quoted By: >>46927170 >>46928298

>>46927025
>If you want Gastrodon to rise to OU, then use it in the tier. A band of really good players can collectively put actual shitmons Ledian in OU by usage, though you're basically fighting with 5 mons only at that point and you'll drop below the threshold where your games would be counted.
they proclaimed that they're now avoiding bans only by usage alone after the Ambipon troll and also to stop Showderp's RUMR

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1524388860040.jpg, 62KiB, 640x480

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 16:51:21 No.46927170 Report

Quoted By: >>46927313 >>46928801

>>46927144
>RUMR
wait a sec...

...doesn't Regice not only wall but also counter Nidoking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 17:06:22 No.46927313 Report

Quoted By:

>>46927170
Yes. ZU's usage set could even be modified with Charge Beam instead of Thunderbolt for a setup build, once gets +1 SpA it OHKOes things like Heatran with Focus Blast while Heatran can only 2HKO with Magma Storm's passive dmg included at best and cannot switch-in safely into Regice even if unboosted. Might work well but it's up to how many people find this potential plus how will it build notable usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 17:29:18 No.46927496 Report

Quoted By: >>46928339

>>46926595
so as in Gen5 lol, and he's still UU there

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 17:42:03 No.46927582 Report

Quoted By: >>46930016

>>46926966
>used to be a high-tier threat in VGC
>hasn't been seen since DLC 2 landed
Zippo Lighter deserved better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 17:43:12 No.46927593 Report

Quoted By:

I LOST TO SCOPE LENS 5 MINUTES AGO. THIS SHOULD BE BANNED NOW.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 19:12:06 No.46928298 Report

Quoted By:

>>46927144
They raised usage requirements to 4.52%, it's not as easy as before but still possible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 19:16:04 No.46928339 Report

Quoted By: >>46928740 >>46928774

>>46927496
ClefPex doesn't exist in Gen 5 OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:11:28 No.46928740 Report

Quoted By: >>46928949

>>46928339
and what exists in Gen5UU that prevents it from being banned in comparison to Gen8UU? you're basically giving me more reason

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1539475447901.png, 447KiB, 737x639

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:16:10 No.46928774 Report

Quoted By:

>>46928339
>ClefPex doesn't exist in Gen 5 OU
Anon, you're missing the point about its usage in UU not being justified by its usage on UU but rather on its usage on OU (which goes against Smogon's own tiering system).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:17:12 No.46928782 Report

Quoted By:

>>46926966
kek

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 786Tapu_Lele.png, 1MiB, 1156x1874

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:17:36 No.46928783 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918864
>Obliterates clef pex
>Isn't banned
very sad, many such cases.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:17:56 No.46928786 Report

Quoted By: >>46928856 >>46928873 >>46928891

>>46926987
Are you being serious or is that a joke?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:20:52 No.46928801 Report

Quoted By: >>46928908 >>46928925

>>46927170
No
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 135-161 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO
Even without Flamethrower, Regice still takes a fuckload from Sludge Wave (plus it doesn’t have recover)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 109-129 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:28:37 No.46928856 Report

Quoted By: >>46929085

>>46928786
try it yourself with a friend on some random chat just by each one typing its team and typing your actions at the same type via rock paper scissors timing or some sort of chat delay to help it (since RNG is gone from everything), and you can basically play you new showdown verbally without even needing to play on the browser, you will reach a point where it will bore you as you already know your limited options and one of you will simply forfeit by just looking at the team reveal. Additionally, the removal of RNG will also reduce the amount of viable pokemon in the tier by the amount of fingers you have. Thus both contributing for the reduction of interest in the meta.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:30:21 No.46928873 Report

Quoted By: >>46929085

>>46928786
>>46919947

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:33:04 No.46928891 Report

Quoted By:

>>46928786
Saying it is indeed a joke, it starts being serious the moment it becomes reality.
...Unless it also becomes a joke there by irony.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 5cd.jpg, 43KiB, 600x693

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:35:35 No.46928908 Report

Quoted By:

>>46928801
>using Rock Polish set
>not using ZU set

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:37:45 No.46928925 Report

Quoted By:

>>46928801
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Regice: 135-161 (37.1 - 44.3%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Regice: 107-126 (29.4 - 34.7%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Regice Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 338-402 (111.5 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:39:01 No.46928933 Report

Quoted By: >>46928960 >>46929100

0- Atk Life Orb Nidoking Superpower over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Regice: 343-408 (94.4 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:41:40 No.46928949 Report

Quoted By: >>46928994 >>46929042

>>46928740
Nidoking isn't really banned from UU, it's usage in OU is just high enough that it rose up. That's the consequence of usage based tiers, same thing happened to Slowbro and Slowking.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO __bruh.jpg, 92KiB, 800x999

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:43:23 No.46928960 Report

Quoted By: >>46928966

>>46928933
>Over 2 turns
>Regice OHKOes in 1 turn

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:44:32 No.46928966 Report

Quoted By: >>46929018

>>46928960
A counter needs to switch in, stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:45:22 No.46928979 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918913
Holy fuck bro snapped. People can’t handle this kind of black pill. Tone it down a bit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:46:55 No.46928994 Report

Quoted By: >>46929037

>>46928949
>>46920996

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:49:07 No.46929018 Report

Quoted By: >>46929051

>>46928966
>implying it always needs to
>also implying that you always predict the switch

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:51:07 No.46929037 Report

Quoted By: >>46929053

>>46928994
Gastrodon also has rised up to OU on occasions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:51:43 No.46929042 Report

Quoted By:

>>46928949
>Nidoking isn't really banned from UU
it is, literally

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:52:38 No.46929051 Report

Quoted By: >>46929462

>>46929018
>>implying it always needs to
Yes. That is literally the definition of a counter.
>predict the switch
That goes both ways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:52:46 No.46929053 Report

Quoted By: >>46929078

>>46929037
>Gastrodon also has rised up to OU on occasions.
nope, it has risen to RU at best and recently

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:57:10 No.46929078 Report

Quoted By: >>46929146

>>46929053
Yes, it has. And just like Nidoking it was thus banned from lower tiers before it dropped again.

https://twitter.com/smogonu/status/1019340970591170566

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 20:57:59 No.46929085 Report

Quoted By: >>46929122 >>46929399

>>46928856
>>46928873
>>46919947
>The only thing that makes each game different is RNG
>Let us ignore that millions of combinations you can make for a team with different moves, items, abilities, and EVs
>Let us ignore player skill, mid-game tactics, mind games, and hard reads
Chess has been around for over 1500 years, and yet it’s still not a solved game, despite advanced AI, a larger player base, a smaller amount of pieces, a smaller amount of moves, having only been updated a few times, and has been studied for a long time. Absolutely 0 RNG involved.
Pokemon isn’t going to be solved, likely ever, with or without RNG.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:00:21 No.46929100 Report

Quoted By: >>46929162 >>46929221

>>46928933
it's that damage over two turns, Regice can be KO'd at 68% chance on the second strike IF it switches into it, also you'll be wasting a slot that might leave you open for other Nidoking counters due to Superpower's coverage being overshadowed by its Ground STAB

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ironic.gif, 1MiB, 338x220

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:02:48 No.46929122 Report

Quoted By: >>46929431

>>46929085
>Let us ignore that millions of combinations you can make for a team with different moves, items, abilities, and EVs
>most of them rely on RNG factors to stand useful

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:06:32 No.46929146 Report

Quoted By: >>46929254

>>46929078
how much did that last? I played Gen7OU, RU and NU at that time and never noticed it. Only now that it's on RU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:09:19 No.46929162 Report

Quoted By: >>46929253 >>46929392

>>46929100
Superpower was used for Blissey in gen 6.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:16:48 No.46929221 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929100
it can be reduced to 62.5% if the 8 EVs in SpD are moved to Def

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:23:00 No.46929253 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929162
>12.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
weren't you sure that there were better options for that? specially since the damage doesn't include Blissey's Softboiled and the Atk drop will quickly waste Nidoking into being stalled? to kill it you would need residual damage like hazards and status already being taken into account, requiring a lot of team support to pull this

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:23:01 No.46929254 Report

Quoted By: >>46929289

>>46929146
1 month, then it dropped and rose back the next month and then dropped again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:27:12 No.46929289 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929254
jesus christ

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1608319265125.jpg, 48KiB, 392x421

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:41:31 No.46929392 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929162
>just for Blissey
>gets outclassed at this by Snorlax, Mienshao, Machamp, Lucario, Infernape, Cokeldurr and Haxorus while also by Azumarill, Garchomp, Landorus-T, Excadrill, Tyranitar, Terrakion, Bisharp, Mega Pinsir, Weavile, Keldeo, Breloom, Mega Medicham, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Heracross in OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:42:26 No.46929399 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929085
Pokemon is already solved lol, it's been the same old shit since 'competitive' began

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:48:29 No.46929431 Report

Quoted By: >>46929449 >>46929454 >>46929457 >>46929463 >>46929477 >>46929527 >>46929603 >>46930044 >>46930156 >>46930665

>>46929122
>>most of them rely on RNG factors to stand useful
Such as?
Don’t include moves people would use anyways without secondary effects/RNG like Thunderbolt, or moves that are hindered by RNG like OHKO moves or Blizzard outside of Hail.
Bonus points if you can name a single move that can’t just be reworked into RNGless state while maintaining its original spirit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:50:10 No.46929449 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929431
>such as
>N-NO DONT MENTION THESE

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:51:43 No.46929454 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929431
Dynamicpunch

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:52:18 No.46929457 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929431
scald
air slash
sludge bomb over sludge wave

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:53:03 No.46929462 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929051
>Yes. That is literally the definition of a counter.
>both leads, cornered as last mons, switch via Teleport, Protect (+1 Leftovers), Wiki Berry, switch via Parting Shot, switch from ally KO, etc aren't real

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:53:07 No.46929463 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929431
Scald, Lava Plume, Discharge. Literally no reason to use them over the 90 bp versions except for their rng dependent side effects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 21:55:40 No.46929477 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929431
>>46929431
>Such as?
>Don’t include moves people would use anyways without secondary effects/RNG
I was going to start with Hydro Pump's accuracy, but holy kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 22:04:58 No.46929527 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929431
From moves like Scald, Air Slash, Lava Plume, Body Slam, etc to status like confusion, paralysis and infantuation, abilities like Flame Body, Static, Cursed Body, Serene Grace, Hustle, Victory Star, etc, accuracy of moves like Hydro Pump, Focus Blast, Zap Canon, etc and the Protect's missing chance per succession

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 22:17:37 No.46929603 Report

Quoted By: >>46929647 >>46929859 >>46929890

>>46929431
>Such as?
Moves like Scald, Scorching Sands, Lava Plume, Air Slash, Discharge, Body Slam, Sludge Bomb, Rock Slide, Zing Zap, etc.
Status conditions like confusion, paralysis and infantuation.
Abilities like Flame Body, Static, Serene Grace, Shield Dust, Cursed Body, Victory Star, etc.
reverse situations that get hindered by RNG but become broken without it: like Hustle ability, low accuracy moves like Dynamic Punch, Zap Cannon, Hydro Pump, Focus Blash, Toxic, etc, and Protect's miss chance upon used in succession.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 22:25:10 No.46929647 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929603
you also forgot critical chance, it's RNG too

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 22:56:32 No.46929859 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929603
>Scald, Scorching Sands, Lava Plume, Air Slash, Discharge, Body Slam, Sludge Bomb, Rock Slide, Zing Zap, etc.
Those last 5 moves would be used without their secondary effects, while the former 5 moves could easily be reworked to not use RNG. Such as adding a Burn version of being Drowsy for Scald, or just making Air Slash flying type Flamethrower.
>Abilities like Flame Body, Static, Serene Grace, Shield Dust, Cursed Body, Victory Star, etc.
Shield Dust actually has more utility against moves like Fake Out and Icy Wind, which have a guaranteed secondary effect. And again, all the abilities can pretty easily be reworked.
> reverse situations that get hindered by RNG but become broken without it: like Hustle ability, low accuracy moves like Dynamic Punch, Zap Cannon, Hydro Pump, Focus Blash, Toxic, etc,
>Toxic would be Overpowered without its incredibly low chance and highly frustrating 10% chance to miss (even though poison types can’t miss Toxic anyways)
Again, all these moves can be slightly tweaked. Strong hitting moves already exists that have better designed downsides like Superpower and Leaf Storm (which should no have lower accuracy in the first place).
In fact, a move like Close Combat would be stronger than all these moves if they were 100% accurate. CC practically has no downsides, yet no one says its OP. Why would a 100% accurate Dynamic Punch be problematic? Pokemon that have No Guard would even use CC over it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:01:45 No.46929890 Report

Quoted By: >>46929943

>>46929603
>reverse situations that get hindered by RNG but become broken without it: like Hustle ability, low accuracy moves like Dynamic Punch, Zap Cannon, Hydro Pump, Focus Blash, Toxic, etc, and Protect's miss chance upon used in succession.
There's nothing wrong with randomness in this form, because it's a risk you need to opt into. If you miss a Hydro Pump, that's on you for not picking Surf.
Conversely, something like Jirachi is something you have no agency in facing. The opponent clicks a button that makes you skip a turn >50% of the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:11:02 No.46929943 Report

Quoted By: >>46929965

>>46929890
If you're playing a Pokemon without Inner Focus or with less than 100 base speed, you made a decision that makes you lose to iron head, and the Jirachi player is punishing you for your bad decision

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:14:49 No.46929965 Report

Quoted By: >>46930147 >>46930169

>>46929943
Not every Pokemon has Inner Focus, and that ability becomes useless if there isn't a flinching move on the opposing side.
You're being retarded on purpose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:23:49 No.46930016 Report

Quoted By: >>46930024

>>46927582
It didn't, and you know it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:25:37 No.46930024 Report

Quoted By:

>>46930016
>Laughs in Dragapult

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO whatthefuckamireading.jpg, 75KiB, 736x1080

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:28:46 No.46930044 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929431
>Such as?
>Don't include...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:45:29 No.46930147 Report

Quoted By: >>46930166

>>46929965
>Conversely, something like Jirachi is something you have no agency in facing.

I showed you that you did, and gave you options to do so. Adapt or shut the fuck up, scrub.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 751 (1).png, 31KiB, 769x733

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:46:31 No.46930156 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929431

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:47:57 No.46930166 Report

Quoted By: >>46930252

>>46930147
You never know when a Jirachi is going to appear, nor can you do anything to stop someone from bringing a Jirachi. It is 100% your decision to run Fire Blast over Flamethrower.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:48:07 No.46930169 Report

Quoted By: >>46930182

>>46929965
>that ability becomes useless if there isn't a flinching move on the opposing side.
It blocks Intimidate. Play the game.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1408903773460.jpg, 187KiB, 530x424

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:49:20 No.46930182 Report

Quoted By:

>>46930169
>play gen 8

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:57:25 No.46930252 Report

Quoted By: >>46930261

>>46930166
But you can outplay and prepare for Jirachi, and you're being a baby bitch scrub if you aren't doing it (and then complaining when you lose to it)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 23:58:43 No.46930261 Report

Quoted By:

>>46930252
And you can outplay and prepare for gen 6 Klefki by bringing Numel. :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 00:16:01 No.46930369 Report

Quoted By: >>46930404

>>46918906
You 0% RNG faggots (the entire Smogon Council) won't fuck off to Chess communities because you know you aren't actually smart enough to win at Chess. So you plague innocent games like Pokemon instead.
POKEMON WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE CHESS
GO PLAY CHESS IF YOU HATE RNG
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 00:17:39 No.46930376 Report

Quoted By:

good thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 00:19:37 No.46930391 Report

Quoted By:

>>46918913
Based

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 8b2e824e0f.png, 1KiB, 623x139

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 00:21:49 No.46930404 Report

Quoted By:

>>46930369
>50% chance to be black or white

Literal RNG bullshit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 00:30:00 No.46930476 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919474
"Wait Rock Slide can flinch.....ok everyone is only allowed to use Rock Throw now"
Smogon Council is a bunch of retards who plague a children's game because they know they aren't smart enough to win at Chess, a 0% RNG game

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 00:31:16 No.46930480 Report

Quoted By:

>>46919947
kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 00:32:42 No.46930489 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920003
VGC is fun.
However, Smogon has been going downhill ever since the Baton Pass ban. They have their head too far up their own asses

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 00:35:21 No.46930502 Report

Quoted By:

>>46920615
Finchator is a clown but so is the majority of the Smogon Council

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 00:56:03 No.46930657 Report

Quoted By:

Who else remembers when Smogon said Sand Rush + Sandstream and Chlorophyll + Drought bans would no thappen when bw was the current gen?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO l.jpg, 17KiB, 285x279

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 00:56:46 No.46930665 Report

Quoted By:

>>46929431
You didn't just move the goalposts
You moved the entire stadium

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Apr 2021 02:30:29 No.46931214 Report

Quoted By:

What is with the aggressive defense of RNG?
The more RNG there is, the less the result is in your own hands.
What reason could people possibly have to not want the game to be decided by their own actions?

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

On these archives

Your latest searches

Smogon having heated debate over luck-based items