/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #47713428

>we need to nerf dragon
>improve its pre-existing counter that's struggling and needs help?
>lol nah just invent a new type to counter it and invalidate Ice-type almost entirely
t-thanks masuda

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 19:42:09 No.47713498 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713438
Bug at least has a lot of good designs, not only is ice the worst type it also has the fewest pokemon respresenting it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 19:56:14 No.47713620 Report

Quoted By: >>47719304

>>47713475
I mean, they could have done both. I don't think it's a problem that Dragon was given another check in Fairy, but Ice is pretty unsatisfying. It's like the only way that Ice types matter as a thing is in hail, otherwise you might as well just teach Ice moves to other Pokemon for coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 19:58:55 No.47713649 Report

Quoted By: >>47713767

Ice would be amazing if it had any good mon or moves. It's just shit because it's underdeveloped and all its users are either glass cannons with weak moves or ice type tanks (lmao)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 20:07:43 No.47713733 Report

Quoted By:

maybe if you have no soul

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 20:09:47 No.47713756 Report

Quoted By: >>47719351

Ice is best when paired with other types like water.
Lapras, Dewgong, etc..

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 20:10:57 No.47713767 Report

Quoted By: >>47713781

>>47713649
>glass cannons with weak moves
name a single pokemon that fits this criteria

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 20:12:11 No.47713781 Report

Quoted By: >>47713884 >>47714723 >>47714901

>>47713767
Any ice type glass cannons. Ice moves fucking suck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 20:22:58 No.47713884 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713781
shouldn’t be hard to name one then

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 20:30:37 No.47713938 Report

Quoted By: >>47714110 >>47714212 >>47718948

>>47713428
Hail teams are more viable than Sun teams and sand. Wtf are you on about Rufus?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 20:36:57 No.47713996 Report

Quoted By: >>47714508 >>47723171 >>47723747

>ice types should resist water

Retarded don't ever speak to me, my family or my pet snail ever again

>water type should be weak to ice (and lose common access to ice beam)

Thinking man's choice you have honored me, my family and my pet snail

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 20:49:49 No.47714110 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713938
The concern isn't whether hail is the best weather team, it's whether Ice type Pokemon are actually very good, which for the most part they aren't. For the most part, they're either really reliant on hail or just plain sub-par.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 20:58:28 No.47714177 Report

Quoted By: >>47715689

>>47713428
what is rock?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 21:02:45 No.47714212 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713938
wut?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 21:40:20 No.47714491 Report

Quoted By:

Fact: Ice and Ice-type Pokémon would be good if not decent if Game Freak actually knew what balancing is, and it's not "make shillmon OP and non-shillmon shit lol".

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 21:42:13 No.47714508 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713996
That is the weirdest-looking snail I have ever seen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 22:07:28 No.47714723 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713781
>Ice moves fucking suck.
Most retarded post on /vp/.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 22:17:17 No.47714808 Report

Quoted By: >>47714872

>>47713428
Ice is at least good offensively. Bug on the other hand...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 22:24:48 No.47714872 Report

Quoted By: >>47715002

>>47714808
It's a good offensive type in terms of the matchups, sure. The concern is that actual Ice type Pokemon aren't very good, and have a lot of weaknesses defensively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 22:27:04 No.47714901 Report

Quoted By: >>47714920

>>47713781
>Ice moves fucking suck
You only think that for the Special Ice-type moves because Game Freak has this retarded tendency to have a special-attacking Ice-type Pokémon's Special Attack under 100100 for some VGC balancing reasons like with Aurorus (99), Lapras (85), or Alolan Ninetales (81).

Ice Beam and Blizzard (100% accuracy in Hail) are good moves with 90 and 110 BP respectively. It's the physical moves like Ice Fang and Ice Punch that are low-BP shitters. There's also Icy Wind that provides utility in speed control or Aurora Veil that is both Light Screen and Reflect in one move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 22:28:38 No.47714920 Report

Quoted By:

>>47714901
>forgetting about Icicle Crash and the newly acclaimed Triple Axel
jesus /vp/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 22:37:13 No.47715002 Report

Quoted By: >>47715109 >>47719211

>>47714872
You have yet to say why Bug is better than Ice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 22:48:54 No.47715109 Report

Quoted By: >>47715128 >>47715279

>>47715002
Bug used to be a lot worse offensively. Unfortunately it's still not very good. It could be a little better if fewer Grass types were also secondary in a type that resists Bug.

But you're not really explaining why Bug is worse than Ice either. Like I said, it's not enough to just talk about offense when it comes to exploring why types aren't good, you also need to look at the Pokemon themselves and how the type plays out defensively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 22:52:10 No.47715128 Report

Quoted By: >>47715171

>>47715109
>But you're not really explaining why Bug is worse than Ice either
bug moves are shit, bug types are weak to incredibly common offensive moves, and they offer next to no utility other than u-turn, unlike ice which gets hail support.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 22:58:23 No.47715171 Report

Quoted By: >>47715177 >>47715239 >>47715267 >>47715276 >>47717933 >>47717968

>>47715128
I would argue that U-Turn gets a lot more play than Hail. Also, it sucks that for Ice to be good, it has to rely on weather.

>bug types are weak to incredibly common defensive moves
So are Ice types. They're weak to Fire, Fighting, Rock, and Steel. Which is the same number of weaknesses as Bug, half which are shared with Bug. But still manages to technically be the better defensive type anyway; Ice only resists itself, but Bug resists Fighting, Grass, and Ground.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 22:59:45 No.47715177 Report

Quoted By: >>47715214

>>47715171
Did you miss the part about Ice being good offensively but not Bug

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 23:04:42 No.47715212 Report

Quoted By: >>47715689

Rock is so much worse. There is not a single Pokemon which benefits from having that shitty type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 23:04:45 No.47715214 Report

Quoted By: >>47715231 >>47715239

>>47715177
Bug is super-effective against three types, Ice against four. Again, the worst part of that exchange is that a lot of the Grass types have secondary typing that fuck up that advantage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 23:06:22 No.47715231 Report

Quoted By:

>>47715214
Rock is a hot mess of having way too many type interactions. Good SE damage opportunities, a few types resist it, a good number of resistances, and way too many weaknesses. Rock has some good moves up it's sleeve, but it's such a situational type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 23:07:08 No.47715239 Report

Quoted By:

>>47715171
>I would argue that U-Turn gets a lot more play than Hail
because the move itself is one of the only moves in the game that has that effect. The typing itself is still shit.

>>47715214
>Bug is super-effective against three types
None of which are that common except dark and is overrided by the fuckton of things that resist it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 23:10:40 No.47715267 Report

Quoted By:

>>47715171
U-turn sees use because it was the only powerful move that switches, not because it's bug type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 23:11:48 No.47715276 Report

Quoted By: >>47715286

>>47715171
>I would argue that U-Turn gets a lot more play than Hail
Not really, considering Max Hailstorm is used a lot and hail can be passively set up while U-Turn can’t. Breaking sashes, getting Slush Rush boost, and setting Aurora Veil are all extremely useful while bug type offers pretty much fuck all. The only good qualities it has are ground and fighting resistance and that’s pretty much it. It’s shit offensively and still mediocre defensively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 23:12:02 No.47715279 Report

Quoted By:

>>47715109
Ice serves a role in the meta. Bug doesn't. One move does not a type make.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 23:12:58 No.47715286 Report

Quoted By: >>47715344

>>47715276
>Max Hailstorm
That's only relevant in Gen 8, but it's a valid point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Jul 2021 23:20:19 No.47715344 Report

Quoted By: >>47717526

>>47715286
I disagree. Because why in the fuck should any type be reliant on weather to be worth using?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 00:12:20 No.47715689 Report

Quoted By: >>47715810 >>47718968

>>47713452
>>47714177
>>47715212
Gentlemen, how do we save Rock in 6v6 singles? Is it finally time to let Rock-types absorb Stealth Rock like how grounded Poison-types absorb Toxic Spikes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 00:28:38 No.47715810 Report

Quoted By: >>47717506

>>47715689
>Is it finally time to let Rock-types absorb Stealth Rock like how grounded Poison-types absorb Toxic Spikes?
Yes.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 03:58:10 No.47717506 Report

Quoted By: >>47718968

>>47715810
Rock types clear stealth rocks and gain a defense boost from it. Kill 2 birds with one ROCK

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:00:19 No.47717526 Report

Quoted By: >>47717555

>>47715344
>why should a type be reliant on a tool the type has?
Huh?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:04:16 No.47717555 Report

Quoted By: >>47717575

>>47717526
The type's viability shouldn't be dependent on one tool at its disposal.

Would you want water or electric types to be basically useless outside of rain? Or grass and fire to be way too subpar without sunny weather?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:06:54 No.47717575 Report

Quoted By: >>47717613

>>47717555
>The type's viability shouldn't be dependent on one tool at its disposal.
Why? Snow Warning and Aurora Veil and Slush Rush are things that exist and people very much use. Why should I ignore them?

>Would you want water or electric types to be basically useless outside of rain?
I'm sorry do ice type attacks suddenly stop doing damage if it's not hailing? I don't follow here.

>Or grass and fire to be way too subpar without sunny weather?
Venusaur would be very shit without Chlorophyll, Torkoal would be very shit without Drought, and Charizard would be very shit without Solar Power, but they're all still used a lot anyway. I don't see your point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:10:57 No.47717610 Report

Quoted By: >>47719306

>>47713475
They should've done both.

Grass should've ressisted Fairy.
with Grass "buffed", ice becomes more valuable.
Ice should just have little adjustments, probably less weaknesses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:11:34 No.47717613 Report

Quoted By: >>47717622

>>47717575
>but they're all still used a lot anyway
This is it. This is actually the point. These Pokemon are usable even without their weather bonuses. But Ice types pretty much aren't. Because they have a lot of weaknesses, tend to have really subpar stats, and not particularly good move pools.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:12:28 No.47717622 Report

Quoted By: >>47717779

>>47717613
>These Pokemon are usable even without their weather bonuses
Not really. The weather bonuses are why people use them. Just like the weather bonus is why people use A-Ninetales or Vanilluxe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:37:26 No.47717779 Report

Quoted By: >>47717783

>>47717622
>The weather bonuses are why people use them.
The only Pokemon that are used for their weather bonuses are weather setters and mons with weather boosted abilities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:38:02 No.47717783 Report

Quoted By: >>47717816

>>47717779
Ok? And?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:45:16 No.47717816 Report

Quoted By: >>47717829

>>47717783
Other types still have good Pokemon that don't rely on weather. Weather is a tool they can take advantage of but don't rely on, where as for ice types, weather is a crutch needed to be useful at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:47:28 No.47717829 Report

Quoted By: >>47717882 >>47717945

>>47717816
>Other types still have good Pokemon that don't rely on weather
You mean like Cloyster, Darmanitan, Glastrier, Lapras, and Mamoswine?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:54:34 No.47717882 Report

Quoted By:

>>47717829
>forgetting weavile
son, i am disappoint

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 04:57:10 No.47717904 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713428
It's not the worst type conceptually, Game Freak just insists on making Pokemon that do not use it effectively at all (i.e. defensive walls)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 05:00:39 No.47717933 Report

Quoted By:

>>47715171
That is a horrible excuse. U-turn see's plays because of pivoting. Not for being bug.

For bug to really gain a buff, it should 1 neutral offensive typing against a type that currently resist bug.
Also make U-turn exclusive to bug similar to Volt-Switch exclusive to electric. U-turn is too universal

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 05:02:34 No.47717945 Report

Quoted By:

>>47717829
Mamo and Weavile are the few consistently decent non-weather reliant Ice types that aren't legendary or hilariously over tuned like Darm.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 05:06:12 No.47717968 Report

Quoted By:

>>47715171
>I would argue that U-Turn gets a lot more play than Hail
That is a horrible excuse. U-turn is widely used because it is universal and pivoting is great. Not for being bug.
A buff to bug can be obtaining 1 SE or Neutral offensive typing against a type that currently resist bug.
Also make U-turn exclusive to bug similar to Volt-Switch exclusive to electric. U-turn is too universal

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 07:38:59 No.47718948 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713938
Hail has disadvantage over sun and sand. Sun comes mostly from fire mons and sand is Tyranitars ability. Fire and Rock are effective over Ice and it's pretty easy to change the weather.
Think of Tyranitar that hard-counters so many (mostly special) ice moves thanks to its special bulk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 07:42:59 No.47718968 Report

Quoted By:

>>47715689
>>47717506
Stop it you're making too much sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 08:35:46 No.47719211 Report

Quoted By:

>>47715002
Bug can actually be beneficial in a type combo thanks to its Ground and Fighting resists, unlike Ice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 09:14:49 No.47719304 Report

Quoted By: >>47719312

>>47713620
Not only that but the way the ice type Pokémon are designed gameplay wise contradicts the type from the way it’s balanced. Ice is clearly balanced as a offensive glass cannon type which the majority of ice type Pokémon should be designed as fast glass cannon sweepers but for some inexplicable retarded ass reason gamefreak designs a majority of ice types as either slow and bulky or slow and frail for no reason (to add more insult to injury, almost every water type in existence has an ice type move as coverage which basically further invalidated the types existence on a pokemon).
The type needs to be either buffed hard defensively (they nerf it a bit offensively if needed) or overhaul most of the ice types mons to be speedy glass cannons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 09:15:42 No.47719306 Report

Quoted By:

>>47717610
I'm convinced the only reason Grass doesn't resist Fairy but Fire does is so mega Shillzard didn't have a bad matchup to the new type in Gen 6. It makes no sense for Fire to resist fairy at all, and all its done is made monsters like Incineroar and Heatran outstanding.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 09:16:50 No.47719312 Report

Quoted By: >>47719315

>>47719304
What's the matter, anon? You're not a fan of
SLOW

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 09:18:25 No.47719315 Report

Quoted By: >>47719316

>>47719312
DEFENCIVE

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 09:19:27 No.47719316 Report

Quoted By: >>47721327

>>47719315
ICE TYPE Pokemon?!
Don't worry, we'll get a new one next generation, it's HP and Defense stat are gonna blow your mind!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 09:27:31 No.47719339 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713475
Dragon just needed another resist so Outrage/Meteor unga bunga was mitigated somewhat
introducing a full-on counter ruins the whole mysticism of Dragons being rare and special
Ice works as the lethal joke type that's secretly strong against it despite being shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 09:32:03 No.47719351 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713756
>Ice is best when paired with other types
>Proceeds to name only garbage mons
Anon, I...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 15:47:21 No.47721316 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713428
The issue with ice is they are always late mons. GF needs to stop making bulky ice types and more fast sweepers. galar darmanitan and A-ninetales are examples GF should continue to make.
Plus give Ice neutral damage over water because water is OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 15:49:51 No.47721327 Report

Quoted By: >>47721339

>>47719316
this pokemon was good in gen 3. blame the split for making it shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 15:51:36 No.47721339 Report

Quoted By: >>47721724

>>47721327
split literally did nothing to affect it, you autist

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 16:45:50 No.47721724 Report

Quoted By:

>>47721339
It's purpose is to be a special wall. Which it could do fairly well because the only special type it's weak to is Fire. Then the split gave every fucking Pokemon access to good physical moves which crippled it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 17:17:49 No.47722046 Report

Quoted By: >>47722745

Slide thread

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD

It's an sterile discussion with no point made to slide erotic or lewd posts about sexy creatures. The board is about pokemon and it includes the CHARACTERS and CREATURES, not some abstract discussion about topics no one cares about.

This is all made by alt-right incels who hate sex.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 18:32:01 No.47722745 Report

Quoted By:

>>47722046
>thread is about ice being a shit type
>schizo claims it's actually a stealth thread about Pokémon being sexy and is made by incels
Retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 19:31:42 No.47723171 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713996
>water type should be weak to ice
this doesn't solves the fucking problem ice type is still a shit type to have
just having an ice type move in anything else is better

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Jul 2021 20:38:24 No.47723747 Report

Quoted By:

>>47713996
>water type should be weak to ice (and lose common access to ice beam)
Ice needs resistances, not to be able to hit more typings for supper effective damage.

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