/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #48065721

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Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:34:45 No.48065721 View View Reply Original Report

>only mainline games not to receive a "third version"

What went wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:37:21 No.48065740 Report

Quoted By: >>48065761 >>48065786 >>48065842 >>48065921 >>48066310 >>48067189 >>48071719

>>48065721
XY were unsalvageable as it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:37:31 No.48065743 Report

Quoted By: >>48069041

>>48065721
Pokémon fans got conditioned into buying DLC for the full price of a new game when it's actually 90% the same as the previous game, and liking it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:39:34 No.48065760 Report

Quoted By: >>48065779 >>48066038 >>48067189

>>48065721
They were ridiculously scared of Yokai Watch's success in Japan at the moment and accelerated the turd that is gen 7

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:40:12 No.48065761 Report

Quoted By: >>48065775

>>48065740
cringe

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:40:20 No.48065764 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
For some reason they scrapped Pokemon Z.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:41:21 No.48065770 Report

Quoted By: >>48065776 >>48065916 >>48067489 >>48069095

>>48065721
The one generation that happened to need it most didn’t get it. Go figure what I think the worst generation is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:42:29 No.48065775 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065761
cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:42:37 No.48065776 Report

Quoted By: >>48065796

>>48065770
7

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:42:52 No.48065779 Report

Quoted By: >>48065790 >>48065793 >>48065820 >>48066427 >>48067189

>>48065760
double cringe
Gen 7 is great and the most content-packed mainline Pokemon game EVER.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:43:30 No.48065786 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065740
Based

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:44:29 No.48065790 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065779
Hi, cosmos77!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:44:32 No.48065793 Report

Quoted By: >>48065800

>>48065779
Gen 7 is the worst gen

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:44:42 No.48065796 Report

Quoted By: >>48065801

>>48065776
?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:45:30 No.48065798 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
Blue and Yellow don't count, literally less gameplay differences from RG than games like RS or BW.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:45:47 No.48065800 Report

Quoted By: >>48065811

>>48065793
See>>48065721

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:45:51 No.48065801 Report

Quoted By: >>48065807

>>48065796
That's not Pokémon Star

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:46:56 No.48065807 Report

Quoted By: >>48068283

>>48065801
Only XY lacked a follow up
“Third version” is just a term for any sort of these, including sequels or whatever USUM is

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:47:21 No.48065811 Report

Quoted By: >>48065913

>>48065800
Gen 7 is worse than 6
2 > 3 > 5 > 4 > 1 > 8 (+DLC) > 6 > 8 (-DLC) > 7

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:48:05 No.48065820 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065779
>Gen 7 is great
Doubt. It has some good stuff and some terrible stuff
>most content-packed mainline Pokemon game EVER
By virtue of accumulation. Any other gen in its place would have been the same case. And gen 8 being the irredemiable lowest point does not make gen 7 autimatically good

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:51:48 No.48065842 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065740
/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:04:08 No.48065913 Report

Quoted By: >>48065930

>>48065811
>6 better than anything
BELIEVE MY LIST BROS

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:05:16 No.48065916 Report

Quoted By: >>48065922

>>48065770
gens 3 and 4 needed a 3rd version way more than XY did

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:06:28 No.48065921 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065740
FPBP

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:06:56 No.48065922 Report

Quoted By: >>48065940 >>48068338

>>48065916
They had less of a need than gen six because their base games were better, and yet they still got improvements.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:08:36 No.48065930 Report

Quoted By: >>48065954

>>48065913
You act like Gen 6 is an irredeemable dumpster fire when it was just disappointing and underwhelming

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:09:54 No.48065940 Report

Quoted By: >>48065954

>>48065922
DP was a shit base game, much worse than XY.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:11:36 No.48065954 Report

Quoted By: >>48065963

>>48065930
>>48065940
I think all the games are great, just some less so. XY least so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:11:50 No.48065958 Report

Quoted By: >>48066027

>>48065721
The 20th anniversary. They had to push out Sun and Moon as fast as possible, leaving no time for Z. That's why Zygarde had its gimmick introduced in gen 7.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:12:28 No.48065963 Report

Quoted By: >>48066080

>>48065954
SM are worse

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:14:14 No.48065976 Report

Quoted By:

Sword and Shield is on a technicality when you consider it was just a extra content pack and not actually changing any of the writing and story

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:14:28 No.48065979 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
They were ready to pretend it didn’t happen and wanted to shift focus on ORAS so they could wrap things up. We see it all the time in the vidya industry when it comes to other big yearly franchises

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:22:25 No.48066027 Report

Quoted By: >>48066126

>>48065958
That's an outcome, not a reason. It had to be something big to delete a whole game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:23:28 No.48066038 Report

Quoted By: >>48066235

>>48065760
There was a gap year in gen 6, and SM were 3 years after XY like usual. They could've made a third version if they wanted to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:30:41 No.48066080 Report

Quoted By: >>48067189

>>48065963
SM at least had a somewhat coherent story unlike XY.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:40:00 No.48066126 Report

Quoted By: >>48066147 >>48066235

>>48066027
Third versions aren't really new games. They're just the old ones but a bit more polished.
GF most likely just didn't have the time for it, considering team A was working on SM while team B was finishing up ORAS. It'd be weird to publish Z without the Alola dex after SM. Also Gf being corner-cutting lazy fucks isn't anything new.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:42:53 No.48066147 Report

Quoted By: >>48066230

>>48066126
>Third versions aren't really new games
exactly why this
>GF most likely just didn't have the time for it
makes no sense

Third version are super easy. They really had to mess up something

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:55:53 No.48066230 Report

Quoted By: >>48066277

>>48066147
Thanks for completely ignoring my second point. Releasing Z after SM wouldn't work because Z would've had a "cut" dex, since it'd be missing the Alola dex. And they could'nt release it right before SM because of time constraints and potentially losing out on sales because of a double release.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:56:34 No.48066235 Report

Quoted By:

>>48066126
See
>>48066038
They've produced remakes and 3rd versions at the same time multiple times, there was no change with gen 7 that made a Z impossible, they just chose not to do it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 13:02:42 No.48066277 Report

Quoted By: >>48071384

>>48066230
Just make Z after ORAS? Like Emerald was after FireRed/LeafGreen? It's the third version, you can do it faster than anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 13:04:16 No.48066283 Report

Quoted By: >>48067037

>>48065721
Sword and Shield.
>but DEE EL SEE
Doesn't count.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 13:05:56 No.48066288 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
Never got to see sycamore fucking your mom

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 13:10:42 No.48066310 Report

Quoted By: >>48067600

>>48065740
FPBP Ironically the only way they could've made it salvageable was by practically rewriting and changing 70% of its content. They probably realized this and fucked off to SunMoon.

I will say though, XY had the best online interaction of any pokemon game. Too bad it was such a shit game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 13:15:20 No.48066333 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
Couldn't decide whater it would be pronounced zee or zed so they just dropped it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 13:34:31 No.48066427 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065779
Anon, I...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 14:53:19 No.48067037 Report

Quoted By: >>48068318

>>48066283
Pikause...?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 15:09:30 No.48067189 Report

Quoted By: >>48071884

>>48065740
cringe
>>48065760
based
>>48065779
cringe
>>48066080
XY still had a better story than USUM though, also the lore of the ancient war alone, and the worldbuilding with things like the Pokeball factory, was better than half of SM's story

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 15:13:31 No.48067224 Report

Quoted By:

Will it ever get that third version though?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 15:29:40 No.48067404 Report

Quoted By: >>48068429

>>48065721
> they didn’t scam me!??? What went wrong bros!?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 15:37:18 No.48067489 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065770
>The one generation that happened to need it most
? DP did get a third version though

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 15:47:15 No.48067600 Report

Quoted By:

>>48066310
this
/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 16:51:33 No.48068283 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065807
USUM is basically like SWSH+DLC. The same base game with add-ons you do not have to download. And their biggest mistake is this, you CAN'T upgrade SM with downloadable content, you have to buy another game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 16:54:09 No.48068308 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
In their defense, SWSH DLC and USUM are just as unorthodox. But yeah XY never got an update at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 16:55:45 No.48068318 Report

Quoted By:

>>48067037
>Pikause
I laughed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 16:56:48 No.48068338 Report

Quoted By: >>48068346 >>48068362 >>48068491 >>48069025

>>48065922
DP was absolutely worse than XY. You have to be a disingenuous retard to pretend otherwise.

>most horrible regional dex in the series to date
>slower than gen 3 for some reason despite being on better hardware and still using static sprites
>story is just as bad as XY
>map design is incredibly railroaded bland, has annoying pointless gimmicks, and consists of just spamming HM obstacles everywhere for meaningless backtracking

The only redeeming part of the game is that it added online, which wasn't even good for the standard at the time because it forced people to use friend codes and had no random matchmaking or laddering system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 16:57:30 No.48068346 Report

Quoted By: >>48068354

>>48068338
Embarrassing post senpai

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 16:58:00 No.48068354 Report

Quoted By:

>>48068346
Point out the part where I'm wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 16:58:53 No.48068362 Report

Quoted By: >>48068434 >>48068768

>>48068338
>DP worse than XY
>lists flaws they both have
Anon....

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 17:05:23 No.48068429 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
X and Y can be criticized on many grounds, but this was based.
>>48067404
This.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 17:05:54 No.48068434 Report

Quoted By: >>48068491

>>48068362
Point out the part that's a flaw they both have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 17:10:31 No.48068491 Report

Quoted By: >>48068498

>>48068434
see>>48068338

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 17:10:57 No.48068498 Report

Quoted By: >>48068506

>>48068491
XY uses static sprites? Damn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 17:11:51 No.48068506 Report

Quoted By:

>>48068498
yes, sprites exist in XY, zoomer

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 17:38:29 No.48068768 Report

Quoted By:

>>48068362
The Kalos regional dex, which is more than thrice the size of the DP regional dex, is as bad as the DP dex? Really?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 17:59:20 No.48069025 Report

Quoted By: >>48069073

>>48068338
DP was bad, but Sinnoh is more interesting than Kalos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 18:00:58 No.48069041 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065743
>Buying the base game instead of waiting for the improved version

You deserve your full price dlc, retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 18:04:42 No.48069073 Report

Quoted By: >>48069177 >>48069359

>>48069025
yeah seeing geodude and zubat and machoke and ponyta and psyduck everywhere sure was interesting
yeah every route being the same generic mountainy crap with nothing going on except HM backtracking to get some useless items sure was interesting

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 18:07:33 No.48069095 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
Ohmori happened, they needed to devote the whole studio to getting SM out on time for the 20th anniversary.

>>48065770
If it's anything but VIII you're objectively wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 18:16:32 No.48069177 Report

Quoted By: >>48069214 >>48069359

>>48069073
Don't forget the snow, marsh, and fog.
Plowing through the snow in Route 217 and catching a Medicham along the way at Acuity Lakefront only to trade it away at Snowpoint city in the hopes that you'll get a Gengar from the trade.
It turns out it was a Haunter carrying an everstone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 18:20:14 No.48069214 Report

Quoted By: >>48069233

>>48069177
>Don't forget the snow, marsh, and fog.
yeah having to mash my d-pad for no real reason and an annoying flash HM clone in a game that ALSO uses flash, how could I ever forget

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 18:22:23 No.48069233 Report

Quoted By: >>48069393

>>48069214
as apposed to just.... walking in XY. Oops my bad, s k a t i n g
what a fucking joke of a generation
fuck XY and it's """contnet"""

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 18:36:58 No.48069359 Report

Quoted By: >>48069393

>>48069073
XY had virtually no exploration though. It was like playing one long cutscene. I think Sinnoh was bad, but Kalos was pointless.
>>48069177
Based NPC dabbing on shitters who have no friends.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 18:40:11 No.48069393 Report

Quoted By: >>48069412 >>48069685

>>48069359
>XY had virtually no exploration though
Neither does DP.

>>48069233
>as apposed to just.... walking in XY
No pointless d-pad mashing? I don't see the problem with that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 18:41:20 No.48069412 Report

Quoted By: >>48069850

>>48069393
I haven't played DP in 15 years, but I'm pretty sure it had more dungeons and optional areas than XY.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 19:03:23 No.48069685 Report

Quoted By: >>48069850

>>48069393
>Neither does DP.
DP has more
>No pointless d-pad mashing? I don't see the problem with that.
What was the alternative is XY? Literally nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 19:16:57 No.48069850 Report

Quoted By: >>48071548

>>48069685
>DP has more
Not really.

>Literally nothing
Nothing is better than pointlessly mashing the d-pad. And it wasn't really nothing, there are some routes with skating gimmicks, stone hopping gimmicks, and pokemon riding gimmicks which are more engaging than "uhhhhh mash your dpad when the snow arbitrarily stops you"

>>48069412
"Dungeons" are a meaningless metric, more hallways with graveler and golbat in them don't add any quality to the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:17:14 No.48071384 Report

Quoted By:

>>48066277
Did you not read what I said? They HAD to release SM because of the anniversary. There was no time to release a potential Z.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:28:18 No.48071548 Report

Quoted By:

>>48069850
>pointless gimmicks I like are more engaging than pointless gimmicks I don’t like
Ok anon
>dungeons are a meaningless metric
That’s another way to say you lack an argument and need to invalidate the criteria because your shitty game can’t compete in that particular regard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:40:29 No.48071688 Report

Quoted By: >>48071719

>>48065721
it was so good that it didnt need one

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:42:51 No.48071719 Report

Quoted By: >>48071731

>>48071688
aka>>48065740

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:43:23 No.48071731 Report

Quoted By: >>48071828

>>48071719
yeah it was unsalvageable because there was nothing that needed salvaging

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:50:48 No.48071808 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
You know we're getting Lgends: Zydarde, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:52:13 No.48071828 Report

Quoted By: >>48071840 >>48071849

>>48071731
If XY needed no salvation by that standard no pokemon game has ever needed salvation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:53:32 No.48071840 Report

Quoted By: >>48071855

>>48071828
I agree. Third versions are shit and shouldn't exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:54:28 No.48071849 Report

Quoted By: >>48071872 >>48071878

>>48071828
True. Thanks to Sw/Sh, we know that things like Crystal, Emerald, Plat were just DLC but making you rebuy the entire game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:55:10 No.48071855 Report

Quoted By: >>48071865

>>48071840
That’s where you and I digress. Why not replace a valuable thing with something even better?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:56:27 No.48071865 Report

Quoted By: >>48071893 >>48071921

>>48071855
You're right anon. Game Freak should never make any new games ever and they should just keep shitting out rehashes every year that are slightly improved versions of the previous rehash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:57:00 No.48071872 Report

Quoted By: >>48071886

>>48071849
That’s strange logic. Only the select few who buy everything benefit from dlc, as they get everything for, say, 90 instead of 60+60. Most people don’t but everything and just buy the better one, which has everything the base game has plus more. That’s less money while still getting everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:57:27 No.48071878 Report

Quoted By:

>>48071849
Wrong. SWSH with the DLC is still worse than XY, and somehow even worse than SM and USUM.
You were conditioned to think this way. Just because USUM was the only third version not to give significant and much-needed improvements (and the only one to be split in two, by the way) it doesn't mean that third versions are pointless.
This is besides the point, anyway. XY could have been justified if the games that came after expanded on what it was going for like ORAS did. But they didn't. SM was a step backwards in every facet but difficulty which means the "foundation" XY would have set was for naught.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:58:06 No.48071884 Report

Quoted By:

>>48067189
XY's story is nearly the same level of bad as SwSh's, just slightly more coherent. USUM's story does suck tho, it ruined SM's

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:58:10 No.48071886 Report

Quoted By: >>48071909

>>48071872
>Most people don’t but everything
The first versions always sell over the double the amount of third versions you retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:58:35 No.48071893 Report

Quoted By: >>48071983

>>48071865
Not what anyone is saying. What I’m saying is that every new release has problems that aren’t necessarily make or break but would be nice if fixed, so instead of continuing to sell it they replace it with something better without changing the price.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 21:59:36 No.48071909 Report

Quoted By:

>>48071886
Thanks for agreeing try at most people don’t buy everything. If they did, all games would sell literally identically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 22:01:12 No.48071921 Report

Quoted By: >>48071994

>>48071865
The alternative to the improved versions is a gap year. Why not make more games that give people more options of how they want to experience a certain region before launching a new generation around every three years anyway?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 22:01:19 No.48071925 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
they misjudged their release times and post-GOboom they wanted to draw in the newbies with a new region so Z was abandoned so SM could be championed as the “20th anniversary” game. This is unchallengable, the existence of “Z-moves”, alien plotline and Zygarde shoehorned in prove this

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 22:06:28 No.48071983 Report

Quoted By: >>48072109

>>48071893
>Not what anyone is saying
It is when you try to argue that it's a good thing to resell the same game a year later with minor improvements. By that same logic it's also a good thing to resell the same game that was resold with minor improvements to add more minor improvements.

>every new release has problems that aren’t necessarily make or break but would be nice if fixed
same logic applies to third versions. Why not make a fourth version that improves the flaws Platinum still has instead of moving on to Gen 5?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 22:07:30 No.48071994 Report

Quoted By:

>>48071921
>The alternative to the improved versions is a gap year
Which is precisely what they did with XY. There was no game in 2015 and they waited until 2016 to release SM. I fail to see the problem with this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 22:16:06 No.48072109 Report

Quoted By: >>48072166

>>48071983
>you try to argue that it's a good thing to resell the same game a year later with minor improvements
Don’t buy it if those minor improvements aren’t worth it to you
You clearly don’t see the point in trying to make as good of a game as possible, and that involves solving the problems of games released before
>Why not make a fourth version that improves the flaws Platinum still has
Because DP’s flaws were already fixed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 22:16:07 No.48072110 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
Time and Megas raping the meta. If it wasn't for the anniversary, we probably would have gotten a fully fleshed out game. If it wasn't for Megas, they wouldn't actively try to pretend Gen 6 never happened.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Aug 2021 22:21:21 No.48072166 Report

Quoted By: >>48073313

>>48072109
>Because DP’s flaws were already fixed.
But Platinum still has flaws. Why not make a fourth version to fix those flaws?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Aug 2021 00:28:33 No.48073313 Report

Quoted By:

>>48072166
based

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Aug 2021 00:48:24 No.48073500 Report

Quoted By:

>>48065721
gamefreak hated xy and wanted them under the rug as soon as posisbleVH

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