/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #48279881

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What does it need?

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 21:18:24 No.48279881 View View Reply Original Report

It's bad and it's always been bad
How do we fix it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 21:20:55 No.48279899 Report

Quoted By:

Game Freak to....
Maybe...
stop being incompetent for once?

They not ready for that yet until the very last Lucario is shitted out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 21:21:36 No.48279901 Report

Quoted By: >>48280965 >>48287525 >>48288672 >>48291647

>>48279881
Close Combat, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Swords Dance, and remove its fire typing

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 21:22:42 No.48279909 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
Signature 100% burn damaging physical move

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 23:57:10 No.48280858 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
It's only real options for physical moves are flare blitz, quick attack and dig, so a physical grass move could help deal with some of it's coverage issues. Whatever you do to it's moveset it's not going to be anything above PU without changing its stats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 23:58:36 No.48280866 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
fire typing needs to go, or a boost in speed, or a fire type priority move

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 23:59:21 No.48280870 Report

Quoted By:

we don't
not every mon can be great

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 00:01:25 No.48280888 Report

Quoted By: >>48280910

>>48279881
what? didn't gen 6 give it a good move or summit?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 00:02:40 No.48280895 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
Have you tried turning it off and on again

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 00:05:23 No.48280910 Report

Quoted By: >>48280918

>>48280888
it getting a big physical attack only fixed 1 of its 3 core problems

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 00:06:47 No.48280918 Report

Quoted By: >>48280956 >>48287684

>>48280910
gonna be honest i never picked him because i liked the other two more anyways so what are his other problems?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 00:13:32 No.48280956 Report

Quoted By: >>48287684

>>48280918
he's statted like a glass cannon but he's not fast enough to pull it off. his typing is the third worst defensive type. his enormous physical attack stat is vastly underused. before it got Flare Blitz in gen 6 it literally only had Fire Fang for STAB. it also lacks in coverage that doesn't let it be a competent sweeper.

it does have that giant attack stat though, and a pair of good abilities in Guts and Flash Fire. it needs a priority move thats not quick attack, a reshuffling of its stats and more coverage

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 00:15:16 No.48280965 Report

Quoted By: >>48280982 >>48284461

>>48279901
Close Combat makes no fucking sense for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 00:18:38 No.48280982 Report

Quoted By: >>48281017

>>48280965
If fucking Arcanine, Aegislash, Barraskewda, and Xerneas can learn it, I don't see why this piece of shit can't

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 00:24:21 No.48281017 Report

Quoted By: >>48281471

>>48280982
Arcanine is a giant dog used by the police, Aegislash is a combat weapon and Xerneas has big ass antlers.

It is very retarded that Barraskewda can learn Close Combat, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 00:29:19 No.48281050 Report

Quoted By: >>48281164

>>48279881
swap speed at SpA stats

fire priority move

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 00:45:08 No.48281164 Report

Quoted By: >>48281485 >>48281494

>>48281050
Or better yet swap its Attack and Special Attack stats around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 01:29:40 No.48281471 Report

Quoted By: >>48281720 >>48284607

>>48281017
Staraptor can also learn it, stop trying to make sense dumb fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 01:31:37 No.48281485 Report

Quoted By:

>>48281164
The Eeveelutions are already super Special Attack heavy
I'd rather Flareon be buffed to stand out from the crowd instead of making it more generic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 01:32:59 No.48281494 Report

Quoted By:

>>48281164
The only good special attacks it gets are Shadow Ball and Fire Blast

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 02:03:46 No.48281692 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
Give it Sizzly Slide. Physical 90 bp that always burns. Can even rename it to reference Flareon to justify it being exclusive to it like Boost Flare or something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 02:09:08 No.48281720 Report

Quoted By: >>48281895

>>48281471
birds can actually fight with their talons. flareon trying to attack with its paw would be a joke lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 02:46:57 No.48281895 Report

Quoted By: >>48282148 >>48284607

>>48281720
Once again, Arcanine.

>muh size
>muh cops

Not good enough

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 03:11:59 No.48282024 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
love

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 03:33:40 No.48282148 Report

Quoted By: >>48284867

>>48281895
much larger and has much larger limbs and paws. close combat would actually be feasible.
its like comparing a chihuahua to a tibetan mastiff

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 05:18:06 No.48282594 Report

Quoted By:

More versatile moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 15:05:42 No.48284461 Report

Quoted By: >>48284607

>>48280965
Tyrantrum can learn it so Flareon can as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 15:27:39 No.48284607 Report

Quoted By: >>48284634 >>48284725 >>48284867

>>48281471
Big birds can fuck you up with their beaks and talons. What a retarded argument lmao.

>>48281895
Comparing Flareon to Arcanine is like comparing getting attacked by a house cat to getting attacked by a lion.

>>48284461
>giant ass dinolegs to stomp you with
?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 15:31:17 No.48284634 Report

Quoted By:

>>48284607
All those are good points, those moms make more sense to get it than Flareon. But Barrasweda completely invalidates it. If a fucking fish can learn it Flareon should.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 15:41:02 No.48284689 Report

Quoted By: >>48284892

>remove Fire-type from the Fire-type Eevee

Pants on head retarded. Thank Arceus /vp/ has no say over these games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 15:44:13 No.48284709 Report

Quoted By: >>48284812

It's a children's game, every single pokemon doesn't need viability on your weird smogon tier list. Just play the game with it if you like it, autists beat it constantly with shit like Abra and Caterpie so Flareon is more than capable. Or god forbid you grow out of pokemon lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 15:45:00 No.48284717 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
flame charge saved this pokemon. next.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 15:46:24 No.48284725 Report

Quoted By:

>>48284607
>Comparing Flareon to Arcanine is like comparing getting attacked by a house cat to getting attacked by a lion.
so why stronger Pokemon can't learn it again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 16:01:31 No.48284812 Report

Quoted By:

>>48284709
Ah yes, because comparing an NFE or first-stage Pokemon like Wurmple or Doublade to one that is fully evolved such as Meganium or Abomasnow means that not a single fully evolved shitmon should receive a single buff.

You do realize that a fully evolved Pokemon being shit and completely outclassed by NFE Pokemon as with situations like Meganium and Ferroseed is unacceptable, right? And no, posting videos of solo playthroughs with Meganium won't change my mind and is a pathetic counter-argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 16:08:40 No.48284843 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
It's lit as a mixed attacker under rain with weather ball, you just don't have the balls to use galaxy brain strategies

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 16:13:03 No.48284867 Report

Quoted By: >>48285892

>>48282148
>>48284607
>chihuahua
>housecat
Flareon has 20 more base attack power and is larger than the average bulldog

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 16:18:36 No.48284892 Report

Quoted By: >>48288802

>>48284689
OP was asking how to make it good, not what makes sense, retard. Fire typing makes it so it will never be good unless they give it legendary level stats

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 18:37:46 No.48285892 Report

Quoted By: >>48287124

>>48284867
what does that have to do with using close combat?
it's still not hurting anything with those stubby limbs

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 18:52:53 No.48286055 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
give Extreme Speed to Eevee, and Seed Bomb and Fur Coat to Flareon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 20:47:46 No.48287124 Report

Quoted By: >>48287170

>>48285892
It’s proportionally the same length as arcanine’s

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 20:52:09 No.48287170 Report

Quoted By: >>48287487

>>48287124
it literally isn't..

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 21:28:28 No.48287487 Report

Quoted By:

>>48287170
Sure they are, compared to their own bodies. Blus vulpines have greater control of their forelimbs than canines.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 21:33:12 No.48287525 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279901
Hi Smogon!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 21:50:47 No.48287684 Report

Quoted By: >>48288628

>>48280918
>>48280956

adding on to this, fire type is awful for guts users since they cant get burned by flame orb. flareon has to use toxic orb, which kills the user much faster (6 turns w toxic vs 16 with burn)

between the low speed, relying on flare blitz (recoil damage), toxic orb, and having stealth rock weakness (toxic orb means no boots), flareon has absolutely abysmal staying power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:01:44 No.48288623 Report

Quoted By:

>Extreme Speed
Give this shit to Eevee so Leafeon can use it too, 80BP coming from Flareon's 130 ATK isn't shabby even without STAB
>Seed Bomb
Coverage, and Flareon eats berries and even breathe fire on them.
"When it catches prey or finds berries, it breathes fire on them until they’re well done, and then it gobbles them up."
>Fur Coat
I mean, just look at it. Fur Coat Flareon would be a somewhat bulky because the SDEF is already good, this would improve the Wish+Lava Plume set

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:03:24 No.48288628 Report

Quoted By: >>48288635

>>48287684
don't burns also lower attack tho?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:04:22 No.48288635 Report

Quoted By: >>48288646

>>48288628
Pokemon with Guts ignore the Attack drop

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:05:55 No.48288646 Report

Quoted By: >>48288696

>>48288635
fug, I did not know this

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:10:52 No.48288672 Report

Quoted By: >>48288696 >>48288756

>>48279881
+50 speed
+40 defense
+35 HP

100
130
100
95
110
115
Plus all of these moves
>>48279901

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:14:49 No.48288696 Report

Quoted By:

>>48288646
Also, any Pokemon that uses Facade ignores the attack drop as well.

>>48288672
All the Eeveeultions would have to get similar stat buffs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:15:35 No.48288707 Report

Quoted By:

Sizzly Slide.

Funny how these broken moves were designed with the Eeveelutions in mind, but only the partner Eevee has access to them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:21:26 No.48288748 Report

Quoted By: >>48288759

>>48279881
New stat spread
>Hp: 60
>Attack: 65
>Defense: 65
>Sp.Attack: 130
>Sp.Defense: 110
>Speed: 95
There, simple

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:22:39 No.48288756 Report

Quoted By:

>>48288672
>650 BST
Why don't you add Huge Power while at it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:23:16 No.48288759 Report

Quoted By:

>>48288748
same problem as Jolteon, no special moves other than the STAB attacks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:29:58 No.48288802 Report

Quoted By: >>48288809

>>48284892
Fire-type is an amazing type, though, easily top 5.
>Forms a defensive core with Steel/Fairy and Water/Grass
>Resists 6 types, more than every other type in the game bar Steel
>Only 3 weaknesses, one of which, Water, is the least viable in the higher tiers that it has ever been, and Ground being incredibly easy to negate with all the Flying types/levitators around
>Great offensive type
>Strong moves with great spread
>Has its own weather, deals obscene amounts of damage
>While good Fire-types are rare, the ones that are are exceptional (Cinderace, Volcarona, Blaziken, Moltres, and in doubles there's also Incelroar and Charizard)

Heavy Duty Boots also got rid of Fire's biggest flaw and made tons of Fire-types huge threats. Ho-oh is better than it's ever been, among many others. The problem with Flareon is that its type, stats, ability, and movepool are all horribly mismatched. As far as physical pure Fire-type attackers go, Cinderace > Darmanitan > Entei > Arcanine > Flareon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:32:01 No.48288809 Report

Quoted By: >>48288839

>>48288802
I agree with you that it's better than the other anon is saying, but saying it's top 5 is crazy and bullshit and you know that. 8/9th best maybe

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:32:19 No.48288810 Report

Quoted By: >>48288849

Flareon doesn't need to be buffed because Cinderace exists and Fire is a good typing to have.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:33:30 No.48288815 Report

Quoted By: >>48288838 >>48291672

All of the Eeveelutions suck ass, in case you never noticed. They have great BSTs, but their abilities, move pools, and monotype often hold them back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:35:54 No.48288838 Report

Quoted By:

>>48288815
Nice to see Umbreon is still there in a higher tier being annoying as designed 7 gens later.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:36:29 No.48288839 Report

Quoted By: >>48288853 >>48288862 >>48289199 >>48291691

>>48288809
1. Fairy
2. Steel
3. Flying
4. Water
5. Fire
6. Ground
7. Fighting
8. Ghost
9. Electric
10. Dark
11. Dragon
12. Poison
13. Psychic
14. Grass
15. Bug
16. Normal
17. Rock
18. Ice

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:37:45 No.48288849 Report

Quoted By:

>>48288810
Yeah, fuck shitmons. If they aren't good now, they'll never be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:38:39 No.48288853 Report

Quoted By:

>>48288839
Is this based on something or just general opinion? I can't really say it's wrong at a glance but Dragon isn't THAT weak even with how disgustingly OP Poison is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:39:41 No.48288862 Report

Quoted By: >>48288900

>>48288839
Is this based on something or just general opinion? I can't really say it's wrong at a glance but Dragon isn't THAT weak even with how disgustingly OP Fairy is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 00:45:59 No.48288900 Report

Quoted By: >>48291695

>>48288862
Dragon is pretty weak. The moves are either incredibly weak (Dragon Claw, Dragon Breath, Dragon Pulse), or have drastic drawbacks (Draco Meteor, Outrage) that make playing around them easy. Fairy is everywhere in the higher tiers, between the Tapus, Clefable, Azumarill, Hatterene, Primarina, A-Ninetales, Togekiss, and Xerneas. Dragon-type is a liability now instead of a strength, especially since it hits fuck all for SE damage. Most of the Dragon-types in the top tiers are there in spite of their type, not because of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 01:32:56 No.48289199 Report

Quoted By: >>48289228 >>48289329

>>48288839
why do tierfag brainlets always undervalue poison?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 01:36:11 No.48289224 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
You fix it by using a water stone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 01:36:37 No.48289228 Report

Quoted By: >>48289778

>>48289199
>Terrible spread of the few good moves the type has
>Good, but not great, defensive typing
>Best defensive type in the game, and the 2nd best overall type in the game, is immune to it
>Generally worse than every type above it
What, would you have Poison above Dragon? Dark? Electric?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 01:50:09 No.48289329 Report

Quoted By: >>48289410

>>48289199
>Undervalue
He overvalued it if we're being honest here.
>Psychic has Psychic Terrain and Expanding Force
>Bug has the most used and useful move in the game
>Grassy Terrain has made Grass a lot better, but primarily just Rillaboom

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 01:58:08 No.48289381 Report

Quoted By:

Fire type kicks ass and fairy type is the worst type GF ever made fuck Fairys

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 02:02:13 No.48289410 Report

Quoted By: >>48289663

>>48289329
>>Bug has the most used and useful move in the game
Except U-Turn isn't exclusive to Bug, and the STAB isn't that much of an advantage since its used for pivoting rather than damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 02:42:09 No.48289663 Report

Quoted By:

>>48289410
It being non-exclusive to Bug is what makes it the most used move in the game. It's a huge benefit for Bug, since it's the only unblockable pivot move other than Teleport.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 03:03:04 No.48289778 Report

Quoted By: >>48291659

>>48289228
the huge presence of fairy makes poison an invaluable offensive AND defensive typing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 04:01:36 No.48290116 Report

Quoted By: >>48293565

Give it Flame Charge and Fire Lash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 04:09:57 No.48290172 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
Does it have flare blitz yet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:03:19 No.48291647 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279901
>remove its fire typing
Based retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:08:20 No.48291659 Report

Quoted By: >>48294190

>>48289778
That's completely false. Almost no Pokemon in the higher tiers runs Poison offensively. Steel is just too common for it to be a valuable type against Fairy. Not to mention Pokemon like Toxapex which are more than happy to switch in on any Poison type attack.

In fact, in the entirety of OU, there is only one (ONE) Pokemon that uses a Poison-type attack (Toxic doesn't count, it's a status). Sludge Bomb is the only Poison-type attack used by any of the 42 Pokemon in the tier. If you count UUBL, there's also Gengar's Sludge Wave, but that makes Poison seem even worse since Gengar is the only one of 12 in the tier to use a Poison-type attack. Though it does improve the rate of usage from 2% to 3%

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:10:26 No.48291669 Report

Quoted By: >>48292008 >>48293623

>>48279881
It's good and always has been good, faggot. Competitive is not the sole measure of any Pokemon's worth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:10:34 No.48291672 Report

Quoted By: >>48291694

>>48288815
How do we buff Monotype Pokemans?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:17:28 No.48291691 Report

Quoted By: >>48291699

>>48288839
>fairy higher than steel
>being immune to dragon is better than being immune to toxic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:18:15 No.48291694 Report

Quoted By: >>48291702 >>48291708 >>48291760

>>48291672
Give them an incredibly niche. There are several Monotypes in OU
>Clefable
>Zeraora
>Blissey
>Rillaboom
>Hippowdon
>Tornadus
>Mew
>Melmetal
>(Cinderace)
Just regular monotype Pokemon aren't good enough. That's why you'll see Pelipper used to set rain in higher tiers, but never Politoed, even if the latter has better stats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:18:38 No.48291695 Report

Quoted By: >>48291706

>>48288900
Most of those fairest are there despite their type too.

Clefable is in OU entirely due to magic guard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:19:16 No.48291699 Report

Quoted By: >>48291712

>>48291691
>Fairy
>Only weak to Steel

>Steel
>Weak to Fire, Ground, and Fighting

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:20:10 No.48291702 Report

Quoted By: >>48291722

>>48291694
That's because pelipper has hurricane. Was distinctly worse than poli before that

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:20:37 No.48291706 Report

Quoted By: >>48291719

>>48291695
Au contraire, Clefable is only OU because of the Fairy-type. It would be UU at best if it were still Normal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:20:44 No.48291708 Report

Quoted By: >>48291771

>>48291694
>That's why you'll see Pelipper used to set rain in higher tiers, but never Politoed, even if the latter has better stats.
Yeah, it's ONLY the monotype, not the lack of u-turn, recovery or hazard control

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:21:14 No.48291712 Report

Quoted By: >>48291762

>>48291699
>only weak to steel

Based retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:22:16 No.48291719 Report

Quoted By: >>48291740

>>48291706
It's only OU due to fairy AND magic guard.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:23:24 No.48291722 Report

Quoted By: >>48291729

>>48291702
Pelipper doesn't even usually run Hurricane. Its move pool is indeed better than Politoed's, but its Flying-type makes its longevity questionable with Stealth Rocks around every corner.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:25:04 No.48291729 Report

Quoted By: >>48291753

>>48291722
Stealth rock is cleared by defoe though. And roost makes sr damage pointless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:26:04 No.48291740 Report

Quoted By: >>48291768

>>48291719
It had Magic Guard in Gen 4 (UU) and Gen 5 (OU). To be fair, it was discovered to be really good in OU in Gen 4 years after the meta ended, since it was immune to the ever present entry hazards, set its own, could remove opposing items with impunity, and Gen 4 made Magic Guard even ignore paralysis.

The only two changes that were made between B2/W2 and X/Y that made Clefable jump from RU to OU were +10 special attack and Fairy-type. 10 extra SpA. isn't enough to boost a Pokemon from a low tier to a high one, so it must've been the type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:27:42 No.48291753 Report

Quoted By:

>>48291729
Both of which cost precious turns of Rain to use, and neither help it switch in if Rocks are up. Pelipper's defense is great, but it eats shit from special attacks, and nothing in OU is going to let it get free turns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:29:01 No.48291760 Report

Quoted By:

>>48291694
No, I mean monotypes as a whole

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:29:08 No.48291762 Report

Quoted By: >>48291774 >>48291788

>>48291712
Poison isn't a legitimate weakness. Low damage moves, outright unable to damage the ever present Steel-types, and very poor spread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:29:37 No.48291768 Report

Quoted By: >>48291796

>>48291740
And you know. The meta in gen 5 being fighting type central. The type helped but clefable was always at least UU tier even in the world of fighting types.

On the contrary many fairy types like mawile and wigglytuf still sucked and stayed where they are.

If clefable didn't have magic bounce it would be RU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:30:27 No.48291771 Report

Quoted By:

>>48291708
I never said it was only the Monotype

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:30:39 No.48291774 Report

Quoted By: >>48291842

>>48291762
>being weak to toxic isn't a downside for defence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:31:28 No.48291784 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
Gove all eevees their lets go moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:32:00 No.48291788 Report

Quoted By: >>48291821

>>48291762
Steel is just as bad for an attacking type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:32:51 No.48291796 Report

Quoted By: >>48291819 >>48291834

>>48291768
Gen 6 would've had even more fighting types in OU if not for Clefable being everywhere. Hell, Gen 6 OU had just as much Steel-type attacks as Gen 5 OU had Fighting

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:36:21 No.48291819 Report

Quoted By: >>48291830

>>48291796
Oh yeah I forgot there were tons of 100+ steel type moves right?

You're grasping at straws.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:36:38 No.48291821 Report

Quoted By: >>48291830

>>48291788
Steel is SE against 3 types and nothing is immune to it. Most of the Steel-types in OU have ludicrous attack stats that pair well with their attacks. Sure, Glowking's Sludge Bomb off of 110 SpA. is intimidating, but not as much as Melmetal's DIB, Kartana's Smart Strike, or Excadrill's Iron Head.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:38:44 No.48291830 Report

Quoted By: >>48291843

>>48291819
see
>>48291821
Even if Steel has equally low powered moves, you'd be hard pressed to find a Poison-type attack that hits harder than Kartana's Smart Strike. In fact, there's only one, and that's Nidoking's Sludge Wave thanks to Sheer Force.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:39:28 No.48291834 Report

Quoted By: >>48291857

>>48291796
Gen 5 had basically half the team running either superpower or close combat. Combined with edgequake fighting types were safer offensive mons to run.

Meanwhile gen 6 had like 2 good offensive steel types and only one had good steel stab.

Clefable was carried by magic bounce. Deal with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:41:05 No.48291842 Report

Quoted By: >>48291849

>>48291774
Hardly anything runs Toxic anymore. In fact, the only 2 are Toxapex and Landorus-T. Regardless, 16/18 types are "weak" to Toxic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:41:08 No.48291843 Report

Quoted By:

>>48291830
So an extreme example in kartana is the same as nidoking.

The issue with poison is the pokemon. Not the type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:42:23 No.48291849 Report

Quoted By: >>48291860

>>48291842
Still means fairy is objectively less defensive than Steel. Also not resisting stealth rock.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:44:25 No.48291857 Report

Quoted By: >>48291861

>>48291834
Gen 5 was 2/3rds weather, and the final 1/3rd was split pretty evenly between Fighting spam, Dragon spam, and everything else. Fighting is safer, offensively at least, but Steel-type attacks don't come with downsides like Close Combat.

>Meanwhile gen 6 had like 2 good offensive steel types and only one had good steel stab.
Mega-Metagross
Magnezone
Scizor (Mega)
Jirachi
Bisharp
Heatran

>Clefable was carried by magic bounce. Deal with it.
Absolutely false. It was carried by its type alone. It wouldn't have hit OU if not for its Fairy typing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:45:25 No.48291860 Report

Quoted By:

>>48291849
Not being immune to Toxic doesn't make you a weaker defensive typing when you're also not weak to Earthquake, Fire Blast, or Close Combat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 11:46:07 No.48291861 Report

Quoted By: >>48295087

>>48291857
Half of those don't use the steel type for attacking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 12:30:25 No.48292008 Report

Quoted By:

>>48291669
It's not good
It's literally always been the worst Eveelution

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 17:13:55 No.48293565 Report

Quoted By:

>>48290116
This might actually help it

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO galarian Darmanitan having an OP (...).png, 1MiB, 2000x1972

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 17:20:50 No.48293623 Report

Quoted By: >>48295431

>>48291669
Same energy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 17:52:10 No.48293891 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
it's my favorite Eeveelution and I only used it like twice in FRLG but I never cared about it being viable or not

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 18:25:53 No.48294190 Report

Quoted By: >>48295417

>>48291659
which is why I'm saying tierfags severely undervalue the type.
Antimeta teams love it for a reason

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 18:32:41 No.48294247 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
less fluff

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 20:41:28 No.48295087 Report

Quoted By:

>>48291861
Most of them do (or did in Gen 6) use Steel-type attacks. Mega-gross was known as the Fairy Killer for a reason, and it was promptly banned in Gen 7 when more Fairies became pillars of the meta, and having Megagross around as a blanket check to them was unhealthy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 21:34:41 No.48295417 Report

Quoted By: >>48295522

>>48294190
Anti-meta teams only work because they're not popular and no one prepares for them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 21:37:18 No.48295431 Report

Quoted By: >>48295833

>>48293623
You can tell the person that made this image has never played comp in their life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 21:52:54 No.48295522 Report

Quoted By: >>48296055

>>48295417
they're not popular and no one prepares for them because smogon doesnt tell them to, not because they arent good
if smogon told people to make an antimeta team then poison types would be in the forefront

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 22:38:51 No.48295833 Report

Quoted By:

>>48295431
But they do spend their time on making strawman images.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Sep 2021 23:06:45 No.48296055 Report

Quoted By:

>>48295522
No, it's because they're not good. If they start being used more, people will start carrying Pokemon/moves that can easily deal with them, and they'll drop right back down to where they belong. It's the Quagsire effect - a Pokemon that's only good as an anti-meta pick that is easily prepared for but unbreakable if you're not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Sep 2021 01:47:53 No.48297295 Report

Quoted By:

>>48279881
Design wise? I would make it so when it uses fire moves its neck fluff turns all fiery. I would also make its body a brown color. I know you meant stat wise, but I feel like this would be cool.

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