/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #48979052

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:02:56 No.48979052 View View Reply Original Report

How do you correctly write a darker/more mature pokemon story?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:21:02 No.48979190 Report

Quoted By: >>48979214 >>48980690

>>48979052
What does darkness or maturity when training magical Pokémon creatures look like? They pass away and can be used by people to commit crimes but we've known that since genwun. The pain they experience is irrelevant since they're fully healed at centers and their friendship doesn't go down unless they faint. The human characters could be more edgy and insufferable, I guess. Tragic backstories are a great way for characters to feel overwritten and disconnected from the world they exist in.
The better question is *why* do you feel the need to write a darker/more mature pokemon story?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:22:43 No.48979207 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
is that shadow the hedgehog smoking a blunt??

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:24:28 No.48979214 Report

Quoted By: >>48979323 >>48988909

>>48979190
>The better question is *why* do you feel the need to write a darker/more mature pokemon story?
Other series like Earthbound can be darker while still targeting to kids, so why not Pokemon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:25:53 No.48979226 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
Read the Pokemon Adventures manga. It's proper insane shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:30:11 No.48979261 Report

Quoted By: >>48987235

>>48979052
Have the villain be someone wrought with depression after losing a pokemon as a child, and have their goal revolve around exploiting a godlike pokemon to remove all emotion from the world no matter the cost so neither they nor anyone else in the world has to feel tormented by sadness anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:37:54 No.48979323 Report

Quoted By: >>48979390 >>48981728

>>48979214
The big difference is that Earthbound is driven by its characters and their understanding of the world and each other. Pokémon is entirely about collecting and training creatures, and their battles are how every conflict is resolved. That's why RBY tells the best story because every plot thread is resolved with fights: defeating the evil team, the Elite Four, and your rival. Having your rival monologue about being your estranged brother and how all his Pokémon died and how life is meaningless doesn't add anything of value because you're going to beat him up anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:39:54 No.48979336 Report

Quoted By: >>48979533 >>48979688 >>48980699

>>48979052
Give us another Gen 1/2 where the legendaries are optional and the big baad scawy wawy team isn't "uuuuuuh conquer da worl!" because only little kids need everything centered around them

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:47:11 No.48979390 Report

Quoted By: >>48979415

>>48979323
Yeah, good point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:51:53 No.48979415 Report

Quoted By: >>48979452

>>48979390
I'm happy with how it is now with the official titles introducing characters and me writing fanfics about them getting raped by Pokémon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:55:00 No.48979431 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
>How do you correctly write a darker/more mature pokemon story?
Make the pokemon gym challenge completely secondary to the story and don't end it just before the elite four, rather extend the story beyond the E4 as they were just a means to prove yourself.
That's really all there is to it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:56:42 No.48979439 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
I don’t think darker is the right word, but more serious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:57:56 No.48979452 Report

Quoted By: >>48979497 >>48979537

>>48979415

so which one gets pumped so full of monster cum they literally start turning into a monster themselves?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:04:09 No.48979497 Report

Quoted By: >>48979537

>>48979452
>Transformation
Woah, calm down! I don't do body horror, I'm more into taboo stuff: humiliation, prostitution, disloyalty, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:08:40 No.48979533 Report

Quoted By: >>48979605

>>48979336
>uuuuuuh conquer da worl!
Only ghetsis had that goal

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:08:46 No.48979535 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
>darker=more mature
?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:08:54 No.48979537 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979452
>>48979497
You'll eventually kill yourselves like the trannies

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:17:58 No.48979605 Report

Quoted By: >>48979688 >>48979832 >>48980083

>>48979533
Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos, Alola, and Galar are glorified amusement parks. Their respective legendaries might as well be attractions and the shitty one-dimensional teams may as well be regional Tour Guides. You cope with this shit but there is an indisputable fact, Pokemon beyond Gen 2 is not an adventure anymore. It's another generic "BUT THOU MUST" How many awful "CHOSEN ONE SAVE THE WORLD" plots are we going to go through before you get it? Pokemon should be about being a Pokemon trainer, not a mcguffin who has to solve unrelated family problems and the regional "blow up the planet" switch

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:27:31 No.48979667 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
Three options:
1)copy gen 5 and colloseum as they were slightly edgy but not over the top so that kids could play it
2)Copy the last Airbender and make the background edgy, but the current story itself happy and cool
3)Make the dark/edgy part implied rather than outright being edgy

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:31:12 No.48979688 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979336
>>48979605
I don't get this. Obviously if a pokemon is too powerful, someone is going to try and use that power to push a goal. Pokemom rangers already does this without any complaints.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:41:18 No.48979759 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
Im on the opposite spectrum and feel pokemon should make a game without an evil team but with exploring and maybe events where you can hang out with your rival or gym leaders

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:47:15 No.48979797 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
Both of those games did it right, especially Colosseum. Gangs, Pokémon trafficking and a world that actually feels like it could be dangerous living alongside creatures so powerful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:53:29 No.48979832 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979605
Hoenn felt like more of an adventure than Kanto desu

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:34:27 No.48980071 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
Just make the story actually impactful in the world. Pokemon games can easily be dark because evil teams want to mess with the forces of nature and/or use Pokemon as tools of domination or for profit.

Problem is that most NPCs are too static and make generic comments like “evil team stole my Pokemon!” or “I can’t go to this building because mean people don’t let me” but you’re never given a real reason to care. And most only say the same thing.

For example, in Hoenn, remove Mr.Briney’s Wingull off the game after the earthquakes caused by the awakening of Groudon/Kyogre. Then he can say “I lost my Peeko since the earthquakes have you seen him?”

Since he’s an NPC, he can repeat that forever, suggesting he’s gone senile over it and he won’t ever give you the prompt to use his boat ever again. (won’t matter because you’ll have surf/fly at that point)

Literally just change the dialogue for NPCs match the consequences of the evil team’s actions and that’ll be enough. It won’t be forced to the player and only be noticed by people that pay attention.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:36:00 No.48980083 Report

Quoted By: >>48981756

>>48979605
>a JRPG shouldn't have story

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:40:11 No.48980111 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
The Eevee guy did it correctly. Somebody link to his idea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:42:02 No.48980128 Report

Quoted By: >>48980356

>>48979052
>Make raising Pokemon more realistic, they have to be fed and exercised and have other needs attended to
>Explore the consequences of just about anybody having access to creatures with powers
>Make the stakes high without being too outlandish, like the main character's close friends and family get put into danger
>Let characters use swears

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:42:55 No.48980132 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
The 1st and only step is to not treat the player like a toddler.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:43:44 No.48980136 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
You can't

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:48:34 No.48980172 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
For the love of god don't include sexual themes. The maturity should come from the subtlety and complexity of the story rather than over-the-top explicit/violent things.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:49:15 No.48980179 Report

Quoted By: >>48983812

>>48979052
>How do you correctly write a darker/more mature pokemon story?
Like this.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:51:33 No.48980197 Report

Quoted By: >>48980215 >>48988808 >>48988997

You shouldn't.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:53:19 No.48980215 Report

Quoted By: >>48980241

>>48980197
We should.

>>48979052
LIKE THIS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 18:56:47 No.48980241 Report

Quoted By: >>48980476

>>48980215
stop shilling yourself cunt, it doesn't even make sense

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:00:25 No.48980267 Report

Quoted By: >>48983812

>>48979052
We had a good one already.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:10:56 No.48980337 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
colosseum

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:13:32 No.48980356 Report

Quoted By:

>>48980128
Also, let characters have more complex morality and relationships with the player and other characters, usually it boils down to "always friendly with you" or "initially a jerk, but you earn their respect later"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:31:32 No.48980476 Report

Quoted By: >>48980497

>>48980241
*PUNCH* you said something? I THOUGHT YOU WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:32:31 No.48980479 Report

Quoted By:

You don't.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:34:49 No.48980490 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
Have the villain be Madara who wants to use Darkrai to put the world in an infinite dream or some shit like that

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:35:29 No.48980497 Report

Quoted By:

>>48980476
Take your meds

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:44:25 No.48980558 Report

Quoted By: >>48980586 >>48981830 >>48988893

>>48979052
They tried going with something more mature and darker with Lysandre in XY but it filtered brainlets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:48:24 No.48980586 Report

Quoted By:

>>48980558
>People are stupid, so I'm gonna get a really big gun and blow them all up
Am I missing something?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:54:24 No.48980632 Report

Quoted By: >>48989057

Pic related does a decent job
>focus on criminal activity or dangerous creatures as antagonists
>specific adult NPCs ruminating on adult problems and perspectives
>creatures can and do hurt human beings, some being outright killed in front of you
>death is portrayed abstractally in the pixel art graphical context, no gore.
>doesn't come off as edgy or forced
Not a dark or edgy game, but does have a more mature tone

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 20:01:31 No.48980690 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979190
>They pass away
Well some can, pretty much every ghost type has an indefinite lifespan if we are talking about pokemon mortality rates

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 20:03:13 No.48980699 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
>>48979336
Literally colosseum already accomplished this
>Come from a gang that steals valuable shit
>Underground money matches
Orre is where the adults played

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:15:49 No.48981728 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979323
nta but i think one way there could be a darker undertone in the story while still keeping combat at the core is to have an evil team that's more concerned about the use of pokemon than the state of the world. i had an idea for an evil team some time ago called team command where their whole ideology was that they thought the current means of raising pokemon were too soft and that the only way to reach a 'mon's true potential is with harsher training (read: abuse). it'd provide a threat to the region (maybe they intend to take over and establish their views via force) while still focusing around pokemon battles and the idea of training with love and care rather than hate or whatever
basically it makes more sense for the "might makes right" guy to be put down after a pokemon battle than for the "the world sucks" guy to change his views after getting beat up

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:18:52 No.48981756 Report

Quoted By:

>>48980083
It should have a story that isn't about saving the world from some one dimensional villain because personal stories centered on characters have way more emotional impact

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:27:35 No.48981830 Report

Quoted By:

>>48980558
Lysandre was a retard though, his team of chosen people for his new world were just whoever had enough money to join and weren't selected based on character at all

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 23:34:57 No.48982324 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
I’ve come to make an announcement: Shadow the Hedgehog’s a bitch-ass motherfucker, he pissed on my fucking wife! That’s right, he took his hedgehog-fuckin’ quilly dick out and he pissed on my fucking wife, and he said his dick was “this big,” and I said “that’s disgusting,” so I’m making a callout post on my Twitter.com: Shadow the Hedgehog, you’ve got a small dick, It’s the size of this walnut except WAY smaller. And guess what? Here’s what my dong looks like! That’s right, baby, tall points, no quills, no pillows — look at that, it looks like two balls and a bong! He fucked my wife, so guess what, I’m gonna fuck the Earth! That’s right, this is what you get: my SUPER LASER PISS!! Except I’m not gonna piss on the Earth, I’m gonna go higher!! I’m pissing ON THE MOON! How do you like that, Obama?! I PISSED ON THE MOON, YOU IDIOT!! You have twenty-three hours before the piss drrrrroplllllllets hit the fucking Earth! Now get outta my fucking sight, before I piss on you too!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 23:43:41 No.48982394 Report

Quoted By:

Give the pokemon guns

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 02:35:40 No.48983664 Report

Quoted By: >>48983812

>>48979052
I actually really like bad writing! It's very passionate and it's fun to think about what makes it so bad.
Hey OP, could you do something for me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zcO28JbHxI
This is the intro to Halo 4. I want you to pause the video when something just feels weird about it, and think about why that is. For me it's the shot with the energy sword.

I have a personal theory that every story has an atmosphere decided by the first ideas to go in. Every idea added in decides what theme can follow. Giant raptor men killing humans with lightsabers has been a thing in Halo literally since combat evolved, but the emotional context they're going for in this cutscene makes it feel ridiculous. It's "edgy" because it just doesn't fit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 02:42:20 No.48983698 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
gen 5/the shadow pokemon games did it really well
just don't go all "hyper realistic blood" ya know

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 02:53:24 No.48983774 Report

Quoted By:

best i can say is whatever the fuck pokemon reborn tries to pull off is not the way

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 02:58:01 No.48983812 Report

Quoted By: >>48985501

>>48980267
>>48983664
Ooh, also an important note about what makes darkness. It's not actually the events of a story that make it dark (they all involve violence and death to some degree) it's how the characters respond to it.

>>48980179
Hell, you can even see it with this fag. He gave in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 07:09:05 No.48985501 Report

Quoted By:

>>48983812
I agree. The Tick is a giant Hulk, Lupin is a thief and The Mask is a homocidal maniac but nobody reacts to him "you killed my family, for the pride of the Quency you shall die." "Woe is me, why God why did you have to let this happen" "You monster, you filthy animal, you make me cry and rage"
It's not dark until you make it dark // it's not a big deal until you make a big deal out of it.
The Hulk is a drama, Spiderman is teen angst (lightened up by 8 year old jokes)
Just like mind control. Just like someone not showing up at the altar, the girl or guy can always go "Oh well no biggie, I can find someone else" "Am I suppose to be affected by this?" it's indeed the atmosphere and often times characters' emotions paint that atmosphere. Scooby Doo was suppose to be a horror show not a comedy, ironically Courage the Cowardly Dog is more of a serious show than Scooby but just like Earthworm Jim the guy knows how to balance edgy shit with ridiculous light humour and sappy stuff. Most amateurs do not or don't aim for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 09:16:02 No.48986125 Report

Quoted By:

make team rocket function like the actual yakuza/mafia. I want to see that concept fully realized.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 09:44:09 No.48986253 Report

Quoted By: >>48986469

Here's a few things that I think could do it, though not all of them are necessary

>Unironically copy Digimon
>make the protagonist speak and be an actual character
>remove gyms (or disguise them as dungeons)
>have there actually be physical harm done to humans every now and then to remind of the stakes, no death necessary
>maybe have one forced Pokemon in your party with relevance in cutscenes that bonds and has a close relationship with the protagonist to force tension
>again, copy Digimon
Digimon can handle some serious real life subjects without ever coming across as edgy while still targeting the same demographic, though tonally I'm thinking about Digimon Adventure the most. You could also go the cosmic horror route Digimon's done a few times and still have a tone that doesn't feel jarring, but I think Digimon can do it because the characters matter so much, their growth as people and general psychological focus just works. If you tried to make a Pokemon game darker without having anything the player can become emotionally attached to, it would come across as forced and just edgy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 09:54:50 No.48986292 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
XD/Colo are pretty good
Cut out the more overly kiddy shit from BW and that's a decently mature story. Hell, the strongest Trainer in the region outright loses to the evil team. I mean "man Pokemon is kinda just dogfighting isn't that fucked up" has been around forever, and actually going more in depth with that isn't too hard. Not in a BLUH BLUH YOURE THE REAL MONSTER way, but showing how there are trainers who do mistreat their pokemon or see them as tools and what the responsibility is for us to help combat that. There's also undertones of how propaganda radicalizes people and how the big man talking on the television doesn't actually care about you, just how they can manipulate you for their own gains.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 10:42:54 No.48986469 Report

Quoted By: >>48988791

>>48986253
>make the protagonist speak and be an actual character
Most games are objectively worse when silent protagonists suddenly start speaking in complete dialogue

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 11:44:51 No.48986742 Report

Quoted By: >>48988997

You don't OP, otherwise you'd get Kiba / ShadowStar / SMT but with Pokmans instead...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 12:40:04 No.48986944 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
Ideological differences between rival/antagonist and main character.
Have rival/antagonist die by the end.
Legendary/conflict actually does damage and has lasting effect. Post game is helping rebuild things to the way they were and helping people who lost loved ones get over the loss.
Main character has to make a choice that alienates one of his allies in a no win/win crossroads.
Betrayal occurs.
Pokemon actually feel the stress of constant battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 13:05:39 No.48987030 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
Pokemon Colosseum

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 13:47:02 No.48987235 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979261
So just Cyrus but with AZ's backstory?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 16:57:23 No.48988181 Report

Quoted By: >>48988505

Shadow the hedgehog was disappointing how he wasn't Vergil or Arkham/Samir Duran. I really wanted him to play the Samir Duran card and instead he turns into a goodie two shoes, we didn't even have a moment where Shadow betrays Eggman in his face and where Shadow scares shit out of Rouge and everyone by revealing he's a fucking demon. No instead they waste all those good moments on the retarded giant lizard thing and "Muh Maria" like Shadow is Mewtwo or some shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 17:48:39 No.48988505 Report

Quoted By: >>48988656

>>48988181
They were aiming for an E rating, so the scene where Shadow strangles a newborn baby with its own umbilical cord had to he cut.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 18:16:09 No.48988656 Report

Quoted By:

>>48988505
Shadow should have punched Eggman in the belly, not Sonic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 18:41:23 No.48988791 Report

Quoted By:

>>48986469
And what if affects the outcome? You know, a charismatic character can even send enemy goons to defeat the big meanie, or be a total asshole and fight even the good guys just to show them how it's done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 18:44:18 No.48988808 Report

Quoted By:

>>48980197
What an awful anime.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 18:45:00 No.48988813 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979052
Shitdow

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 19:00:25 No.48988893 Report

Quoted By:

>>48980558
Lysandre has the look but his actual motivations are peak pseudo intellectual

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 19:03:31 No.48988909 Report

Quoted By:

>>48979214
Because Earthbound had good writers and Pokemon doesn’t.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 19:16:10 No.48988997 Report

Quoted By:

>>48980197
>>48986742
Pretty much this one too tbqh

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 19:26:39 No.48989057 Report

Quoted By:

>>48980632
>some being outright killed in front of you
You were doing so well until this point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 19:27:05 No.48989059 Report

Quoted By:

Team Rocket has introduced crack cocaine into the Pokemon ecosystem

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 20:15:59 No.48989437 Report

Quoted By:

A street urchin begins training at the Karate Dojo and earns himself a Hitmonchan. He then catches an Electabuzz, Scyther, and joins Team Rocket to destroy the organization from within. Giovanni's latest creation, Mewtwo, is impressed with the street urchin and agrees to become his pokemon and help him take over Team Rocket if he offers one of his pokemon as a blood sacrifice. So the street urchin sacrifices Hitmonchan. Now his team includes Mewtwo, Electabuzz, and Scyther and he is the new head of Team Rocket.

He then turns Team Rocket into a mercenary company that is intent on overthrowing the tyrannical rule of the Elite Four.

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