/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #49542778

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Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:30:27 No.49542778 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>49542797 >>49542851 >>49542913 >>49542945 >>49543010 >>49543035 >>49544498

Is there any reason why some Pokemon in older gens had such awful learnsets? It couldn't have been a balancing issue since it was so inconsistent. Take this thing for example, it learns almost no ground type moves, making it absolutely useless since Golem exists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:33:47 No.49542797 Report

Quoted By: >>49542871 >>49542913

>>49542778
I think they had this idea that elemental moves were more "special" than normal moves. OHKOing every single opponent with a super effective move was not the original plan

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:43:02 No.49542851 Report

Quoted By: >>49546801

>>49542778
It learned water gun. That was big

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:44:12 No.49542858 Report

Quoted By: >>49542871

They wanted you to have to use TMs, and have to use them carefully and strategically, but they went way too far
Nowadays they've overshot in the opposite direction

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:46:49 No.49542871 Report

Quoted By: >>49542954 >>49544488

>>49542797
>>49542858
Some of them got a very generous variety of elemental moves though. Alakazam gets confusion, psybeam and psychic through level up, the last one at level 38. He also gets all three elemental punches as an abra. Meanwhile Xatu gets nothing but psychic, and only at level 65. It feels like half of the pokemon had conflicting design philosophies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:53:16 No.49542913 Report

Quoted By: >>49542948

>>49542778
Pretty much as >>49542797 said - Early Pokemon games were balanced more like oldschool jrpgs and GF was more concerned with flavour than making things good. It's an Elephant/Tire hybrid, it could hit things, roll around and eventuuuuaaally learn to make Earthquakes. Also with how Gen 2 game mechanics worked you did not really needed to be concerned with which Pokemon was stronger - between stat experience, badge boosts etc. practically everything was viable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:57:15 No.49542945 Report

Quoted By: >>49546855

>>49542778
The early design mentality was "normal moves for general use, elemental for special cases, TMs fill the gaps" donphan was basically designed visually around rollout, not sure why he's ground. I mainly follow this mentality when I play modern games, I would rather a battle be fun than have perfect coverage and sweep every trainer I meet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:57:29 No.49542948 Report

Quoted By: >>49542985

>>49542913
Also, simply to put - for some reasons GF decided to make bunch of rarer Pokemon difficult to use. Honestly i would like to know what's the idea behind this decision.
Also with Donphan specifically - unless you visit specific early game location at very specific time you'll get one practically at the end of the game so most of its level up moves are irrelevant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 15:57:56 No.49542954 Report

Quoted By: >>49545714 >>49545981

>>49542871
Abra being a bitch to catch due to Teleport and useless until it evolved unless you used TMs was meant to offset how broken its evolutions were. Basically another Magikarp/Gyarados situation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 16:00:50 No.49542985 Report

Quoted By:

>>49542948
>Honestly i would like to know what's the idea behind this decision.
Battling and collecting were seen as two opposing goals. Battlers wouldn't waste time on catching them all when they could train their team to be the very best, and collectors would care more about owning rare Pokemon than how they fare in battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 16:05:10 No.49543010 Report

Quoted By: >>49543021

>>49542778
I don't mind the idea of the best moves being TM-only but I agree that movesets prior to gen 6 are shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 16:06:19 No.49543021 Report

Quoted By:

>>49543010
>prior to gen 6
Gen 3 was a massive improvement though

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 16:08:34 No.49543035 Report

Quoted By:

>>49542778
STAB moves were meant to be a serious advantage. The entire reason the starters were worthwhile was because every one of them learned good STAB moves, seriously that was their designed advantage. A typed move that could be SE with STAB was meant to be a major advantage. Also, you don't have to trade for Donphan so it's got that over Golem, and it does learn Earthquake by level and bt TM, you can even breed Water Gun onto it which was incredible back then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 19:08:42 No.49544488 Report

Quoted By:

>>49542871
Voltorb got not a single electric move, nor the attack stat to use his signature move. Poor guy, I guess he was nothing but a Flash slave after all

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1643145373297.png, 89KiB, 1000x519

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 19:09:44 No.49544498 Report

Quoted By: >>49545105 >>49545151 >>49545664 >>49546027

>>49542778
>DS zoomie mad about having to actually think instead of spamming 120-130BP STABs for free

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 20:18:06 No.49545105 Report

Quoted By: >>49545144

>>49544498
I'm not a zoomer, I'm revisiting the games I used to play as a kid. You could definitely still spam STABs for free, just not with some random select pokemon for whatever reason. Geodude learns rock throw at level 11, magnetude at 16 and Dig through TM. It just seems strange to me how some pokemon are basically handicapped into being useless by having no viable moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 20:20:51 No.49545144 Report

Quoted By:

>>49545105
> just seems strange to me how some pokemon are basically handicapped into being useless by having no viable moves.
Game Freak has always hates certain Pokémon, it’s just gotten worse in the later gens because now there are mor mechanics and better moves to give to thei favorites while making the ones they hate even worse in comparison

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 20:21:42 No.49545151 Report

Quoted By: >>49545369

>>49544498
>using the same 4 moves for the entire game is "thinking"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 20:42:52 No.49545369 Report

Quoted By: >>49545494

>>49545151
You teach them TMs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 20:55:28 No.49545494 Report

Quoted By:

>>49545369
I also think Gen II had a serious scarcity of TMs when compared to Gen I, other than the 3 elemental punches you can buy in Goldenrod. In RBY the game practically throws TMs at the player so it's never an issue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 20:58:11 No.49545518 Report

Quoted By:

STAB was too OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 20:59:50 No.49545534 Report

Quoted By: >>49545557 >>49545573

>people defending this shit ITT
take note zoomers, this is the old "based golden age" of pokemon people will talk down to you over. bad game design is "soul."

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:02:15 No.49545557 Report

Quoted By: >>49545586

>>49545534
>bad game design is "soul."
But that's what zoomers are saying about the new games? You're always praising lack of story, lack of battles, lack of postgame, easy as fuck npcs, overabundance of exp and the simplification of breeding and EV training. Game design is objectively the worst it has ever been in SwSh and yet here you are whining about the games that were actually good. Classic fox and grapes

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:04:50 No.49545573 Report

Quoted By: >>49545630

>>49545534
I'm a zoomer and I just played Crystal for the first time a few months ago. I had a lot of fun with it and one of the things I specifically liked was how barren the learnsets for Pokémon were. It made it really feel like you had to train your Pokémon to get better, put emphasis on good TMs, and you slowly saw an increase in their power over the course of the game. I didn't realize how destructive to progression getting a 60-80 power stab move at level 10 was until playing Crystal. It's unironically great design.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:06:14 No.49545586 Report

Quoted By: >>49545601

>>49545557
>lack of story
Lack of story is exactly what makes gen 2 great and too much story is exactly what makes nu-Pokémon shit. Wtf are you talking about?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:07:57 No.49545601 Report

Quoted By: >>49545635

>>49545586
Gen 2 doesn't have a lack of story, it has a good story, unlike anything we've had in the last decade that either forces too much or has nothing

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:10:47 No.49545630 Report

Quoted By: >>49545655

>>49545573
>yeah guys I'm totally a zoomer who prefers rbygsc to hgss, I'm not like the other girls
this is a false flag
even if it wasn't, why are you guys acting like your opponents can't get the same moves in games with early access to STAB? are you so mindbroken that you just enjoy spamming normal type moves and mashing A?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:11:22 No.49545635 Report

Quoted By: >>49545646

>>49545601
I guess lack of plot is more accurate. The closest thing gen 2 gets to a plot is team rocket taking over the radio tower which really feels more background anyways.
>or has nothing
Which one was that? All Pokémon games have practically been anime VNs since gen 5.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:12:45 No.49545646 Report

Quoted By: >>49545665

>>49545635
Gen 2 has more background lore to it's history and legendaries, I consider that plot. Gen 8 was basically "durr fight the gyms" with some bullshit thrown in at the very end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:13:44 No.49545655 Report

Quoted By: >>49545692

>>49545630
>yeah guys I'm totally a zoomer who prefers rbygsc to hgss, I'm not like the other girls
I haven't played hgss yet you nigger. I just played crystal and thought it was fun.
>are you so mindbroken that you just enjoy spamming normal type moves and mashing A?
Terrible argument when the whole point was that being given shit moves at the start makes it way more interesting and challenging where as modern ones you literally just spam stab and mash a....

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:14:34 No.49545664 Report

Quoted By:

>>49544498
>gen 1 mono Fighting pokemon that later became a Dark/Fighting type

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:14:53 No.49545665 Report

Quoted By:

>>49545646
>Gen 2 has more background lore to it's history and legendaries, I consider that plot
That's story. Plot is action/active, story is thematic/encompassing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:17:25 No.49545692 Report

Quoted By: >>49545721 >>49545726

>>49545655
>challenging
no, it really isn't. the most challenging game in the mainline is USUM and its far away from GSC. Your point about "spam STAB and mash A" is true, so I'm glad we agree that the formula overall is just about mashing and it needs to be changed for the better.
PLA simply is the best Pokemon game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:19:03 No.49545704 Report

Quoted By:

I'm playing Red right now. My Charizard is level 40 and still has Ember. It learned slash and has access to swords dance, which is kind of cool and I wouldn't really have thought to teach it earthquake in a newer game where it has access to more special coverage. I really like how you can effectively customize your team with TMs that feel scarce, and not every pokemon can learn tons of good moves.
And yes I know how crits work with ignoring stat bonuses, I'll probably teach it strength or the all-powerful body slam

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:19:59 No.49545714 Report

Quoted By: >>49545841 >>49545981 >>49545995

>>49542954
You can catch a ghastly before the first gym and it learns hypnosis and mean look at level 13. Literally 10 mins of grinding.
Useful to have since a lot of pokemon can flee for some reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:20:53 No.49545721 Report

Quoted By:

>>49545692
>PLA simply is the best Pokemon game.
I mean, I agree... it's not exactly a model of challenge and perfect battle systems though. I was just saying I actually found Crystals learnsets to be fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:21:23 No.49545726 Report

Quoted By: >>49545746

>>49545692
>the most challenging game in the mainline is USUM and its far away from GSC
Zoom zoom. GSC and RBY are more challenging because of the move scarcity and the fact that rng can fuck you almost any point in the game also holy fuck wrap+poison can absolutely ruin your day. USUM literally has to have 2v1 and extra stat bonuses to even begin to be as challenging

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:23:14 No.49545746 Report

Quoted By: >>49545759

>>49545726
I don't care about what the game does to be more challenging, I care about the result. Move scarcity, as you lovingly put it, is less interesting to me than what USUM does. Move scarcity just means less player choice and more monotonous battles

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:24:31 No.49545759 Report

Quoted By:

>>49545746
>less player choice and more monotonous battles
Sounds like USUM to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:33:31 No.49545841 Report

Quoted By: >>49545981

>>49545714
In other words, a proper strategy is needed for catching Abra.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:48:35 No.49545981 Report

Quoted By:

>>49545841
>>49545714
>>49542954
You can also just buy him from the game corner. He's the cheapest prize and you should have more than enough money by that point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:50:16 No.49545995 Report

Quoted By:

>>49545714
That's what quick balls are for, they work extremely well with abra.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 21:53:03 No.49546027 Report

Quoted By:

>>49544498

Scraggy getting high jump kick that early made it a beast in-game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 23:32:38 No.49546801 Report

Quoted By: >>49546818

>>49542851
Wtf lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 23:35:10 No.49546818 Report

Quoted By:

>>49546801
Yeah through breeding. Gave it a way to bully other Rock and Ground types and put Gligar in its place

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 04 Feb 2022 23:39:04 No.49546855 Report

Quoted By:

>>49542945
>not sure why he's ground
because TIRES touch the GROUND

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