/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #49735187

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Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:19:57 No.49735187 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>49735225 >>49735262 >>49735484 >>49735681 >>49738678

What actually defines certain Pokemon? Such as Ground, Dark, Psychic, Fairy, Normal? You can't argue that Ground/Fairy/Dark are based on being Brown/Tan, Pink, or Black/Grey because that isn't always the case. So what actually defines some of these Pokemon in comparison to say Fire, Electric, Grass, Water, Bug, Fighting, who all have very clear characteristics?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:25:11 No.49735225 Report

Quoted By: >>49735280 >>49735363

>>49735187
Some of them make sense, some of them feel blatant, some of them feel subtle, some make little sense. Lucario is the only Fighting/Steel Pokémon, so far at least, and its steel characteristics are shown through three protruding spikes.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO energy.png, 126KiB, 730x934

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:29:20 No.49735262 Report

Quoted By: >>49735280

>>49735187
Their elemental power. Normal is the "blank"/ordinary non-elemental type, the closest thing there is being typeless. It's all about whatever elemental energy the Pokemon manipulates.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:32:28 No.49735280 Report

Quoted By: >>49735293 >>49736113 >>49738837

>>49735225
Yeah but, in Krookodile's case, why is he Ground? What about him screams ground type?
>>49735262
Yeah but a lot of Normal type can manipulate elements, such as Fire Punch, Ice Punch, etc. Which is something Hitmonchan, a fighting type can do. Look at Snorlax for instance, which I understand is more of a 'catch-all' typing to using elements.

But lets look at Nidoking for instance, his line makes sense having a poison stinger/horn, but what about it is Ground type? Tons of Pokemon can use Earthquake and various moves.

Some Pokemon and types just don't feel like they have a proper identity, Ground being a big one of those.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:34:38 No.49735293 Report

Quoted By: >>49735317 >>49735372

>>49735280
>but what about it is Ground type? Tons of Pokemon can use Earthquake and various moves.

The fact that it's better at using those moves than Pokemon who aren't Ground types. That's really it, "types" are just the elements a Pokemon has a natural affinity for. It's naturally adept at using Ground-type moves, so it's a Ground type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:37:23 No.49735317 Report

Quoted By: >>49735363

>>49735293
What about Ursaluna? It's Ground Type, yet including its moveset from Ursaring, it actually can learn 1 more Fairy move than it can Ground. It can also learn almost as many Dark type moves as well when combined with its prior evolutions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:43:18 No.49735363 Report

Quoted By: >>49735372

>>49735225
>Lucario is the only Fighting/Steel Pokémon
Cobalion? Zamazenta-C?
>>49735317
Ursaluna is covered in soil and can manipulate soil at will, that's clearly Ground territory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:45:16 No.49735372 Report

Quoted By: >>49735396 >>49735436 >>49735547 >>49737653

>>49735363
>Ursaluna is covered in soil and can manipulate soil at will, that's clearly Ground territory.
>>49735293
What about these two?

Nidoqueen/Nidoking can't learn a single Ground Type move in Gen 1, and they have been Ground Type since then, and they only learn 1 Ground move period these days.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:50:25 No.49735396 Report

Quoted By:

>>49735372
>>Ursaluna is covered in soil and can manipulate soil at will, that's clearly Ground territory.
Yes. Peat is soil that's filled with wet, decomposing organic material.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:51:39 No.49735400 Report

Quoted By:

What kind of attacks they have an affinity for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 17:58:00 No.49735436 Report

Quoted By: >>49735459 >>49735547

>>49735372
>Nidoqueen/Nidoking
I will say up front that I agree that a lot of type decisions are really arbitrary, especially in Gen I.That said, the Nidos are both categorized as being Drill Pokemon, likely due to their horns, and drills generally means Ground-type. This of course begs the question of why Dunsparce and Horn Drill are Normal instead of Ground, which I cannot give a satisfying answer to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 18:01:05 No.49735459 Report

Quoted By: >>49735530 >>49735547

>>49735436
I will never understand why they didn't give Dunsparce any Ground moves in Gen 2. I understand its a relatively early Pokemon, but so is Nidoran and you can get a Queen/King by the time you finish Mt. Moon. Some Pokemon are just really bizarre to me, especially now that we have regional variants, a lot of which make a lot of sense, but it seems like just certain Pokemon are just thrown together for balance sake or with no real thought beyond their typing.

Like the Nido lines to me seem more Poison because they have barbs and a stinger/horn, rather than it being more of a Drill to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 18:03:56 No.49735484 Report

Quoted By:

>>49735187
A combination of balancing the number of certain-typed Pokemon in any new generation and whatever designs actually get approved and added to the game.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Baragon.jpg, 25KiB, 360x450

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 18:09:26 No.49735530 Report

Quoted By: >>49735651

>>49735459
>Like the Nido lines to me seem more Poison because they have barbs and a stinger/horn, rather than it being more of a Drill to me.
Well yeah, they do start out as mono-Poison-types, so that definitely tracks.
I did forget that Nidoking in particular is an explicit reference to the kaiju Baragon, which is known for its digging ability. The added Ground-typing may therefore just be an extended reference to something that Game Freak likes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 18:11:18 No.49735547 Report

Quoted By: >>49735651

>>49735459
>>49735436
>>49735372
The Nidos are based on a Japanese kaiju that comes from the center of the earth and causes earthquakes

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 18:25:11 No.49735651 Report

Quoted By: >>49735795

>>49735547
>>49735530
I know Nidoking is Baragon, but even then he never learns Earthquake. Nidoqueen is just a female extension of it of course, but its still absolutely bizarre to me. Krookodile is another one that is bizarre. I get you find it in the desert, and it knows ground moves, but nothing about it screams Ground to me. Much like how Snubbull/Granbull don't scream Fairy to me (I understand they're based on an Irish fairy-dog legend), but still.

I feel like certain types should have more identity, I guess is more of what I'm getting at. Like some are so distinguishable you can honestly just tell at a glance immediately what they are, and others its rather confusing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 18:30:08 No.49735681 Report

Quoted By: >>49735760 >>49735877 >>49737729 >>49737758

>>49735187
Krook is a desert crocodile who plays on the common fictional trope of aquatic animals "swimming though sand" like a fluid. So are garchomp and hippowdon and that's what the ability sand rush actually is

All pokemon have their Type because of 1-4 of these reasons;
>elemental control over a thing
>thing describes something about your behavior
>have an affinity with thing
>are a thing

Loosely, but yea I challenge you all to find a pokemon which doesn't fit any of those 4. Come at me, this guide works for all Pokémon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 18:39:01 No.49735760 Report

Quoted By: >>49735857

>>49735681
Stantler, it learns tons of Psychic moves, the Pokedex literally states it can bend reality, etc. The only reason its not Psychic (which it should be considering its relative location around a Ghost Gym) is that Stantler is just a regular ass deer (even though everything points to it not being just a 'regular deer). Only actual excuse for Stantler being Normal is that it only really learned Normal moves in Gen 2 and they don't retroactively fix a lot of Pokemon in reality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 18:43:05 No.49735795 Report

Quoted By:

>>49735651
>I know Nidoking is Baragon, but even then he never learns Earthquake.

Lickitung also didn't learn Lick in the first games, it's Gamefreak what's your point. ...it doesn't really matter if the game stats/movepools whatever don't entirely support, it's still a clear reason. More of a lore reason or informed reason rather than explicitly shown one.

>but nothing about it screams Ground to me

Its 2 previous evolutions helped with that, they are unmistakably Ground and you would organically learn about them first. Sure Krook doesn't look Ground in a vacuum but so what, they otherwise would be forced to shoehorn in the color brown on it and that would be dumb. The minor inconvenience of it's Type not being obvious at first is worth it to not ruin the rad color palette.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 18:50:25 No.49735857 Report

Quoted By:

>>49735760
Well no, Stantler still

>are a thing

In this case "normal boring mammal" which informs its Type. Merely being able to use certain attacks does not alone make you that Type. I agree completely it should be Psychic, but it not being that Type isn't explicitly a contradiction. Using psychic attacks doesn't automatically equal Psychic Type.

[My 4-bullet list is flawless for explaining why something IS a certain Type, but is not intended for explaining why they are NOT certain Types]

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 18:54:05 No.49735877 Report

Quoted By: >>49735924

>>49735681
>are a thing
That is not a fair assessment because literally everything is a thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 19:00:54 No.49735924 Report

Quoted By: >>49735992

>>49735877
By thing I mean [insert thing]. Dragon Types generally are dragons, Rock Types are often physically made of stone. Pokemon literally being [insert thing] is often why they are that Type. If they are NOT [thing] then its Type'll be explained by one of the other 3 bullets.

Idk I feel like my assessment is pretty fair I'm open to counterarguments

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 19:13:17 No.49735992 Report

Quoted By: >>49736084

>>49735924
Nah the other 3 work fine, but everything is still a thing. You can literally argue for a lot of stuff using that bullet point. The term base representative would probably be a more apt way of describing it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 19:25:24 No.49736084 Report

Quoted By: >>49736112

>>49735992
>You can literally argue for a lot of stuff using that bullet point

But that's not a knock against it, that's a point in its favor. If our goal is to figure out WHY a pokemon has a certain Type, well then yeah many of them being literal [insert thing] is a very direct and logical reason as to why they have that Type.

The reason it's so broad and widely applicable is because that often is precisely THE reason why a pokemon has a given Type, which is what we're trying to figure out to begin with. If your intention is to figure out why something has a certain Type, then [pokemon literally being insert thing] is a very major and direct explanation for it. Bug Types are bugs, that is why they are Bug Type

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 19:29:31 No.49736112 Report

Quoted By:

>>49736084
Yeah but that only works in the case of certain types of animals and things. For instance, Kangaskhan is a Kangaroo. Well Kangaroo as a 'thing' could be virtually any type depending on its actual design. When you say base representative though, in most cases that is applicable to every single type. Base grass, it has plants. Base dragons, its a dragon. Base normal, its some type of generic animal, etc. I feel like base representative covers a more broad range, while also narrowing down specifics without having to rely on the other 3 bullet points entirely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 19:29:36 No.49736113 Report

Quoted By:

>>49735280
>Yeah but, in Krookodile's case, why is he Ground?
Because he can swim in sand and uses sandstorms to hunt

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 23:07:17 No.49737653 Report

Quoted By:

>>49735372
They're ground because they're weak to water and immune to electric. What more do you need?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 23:17:15 No.49737729 Report

Quoted By: >>49738430

>>49735681
Why is Heliolisk part Normal-type?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 23:20:32 No.49737758 Report

Quoted By: >>49739073 >>49739392 >>49739968

>>49735681
Why is Togepi a fairy, and why was it normal? Why is Chansey normal? Goomy a dragon? Sudowoodo a rock? Your guide doesn't work at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 00:59:13 No.49738430 Report

Quoted By: >>49739768

>>49737729
I've only heard one reasonable explanation, and it seems to be because the dex states that Heliolisk doesn't generate its own electricity. So I guess it's not "fully" electric type because it can only use electricity by absorbing it from the sun

>Why is Togepi a fairy

It is one? This evo line is literally angelic

>why was it normal
Point 2, describes something about behavior. There was no Fairy so Togepi had no clear affiliation to any Type hence it could be described as normal

>Why is Chansey normal
Point 2

>Goomy a dragon?
It is one/is based on one. Your conception of what a dragon is is too narrow, whole hosts of different shit has been described as dragons including snails in this instance.

>Sudowoodo a rock?
This last one has to be bait right

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 01:35:18 No.49738678 Report

Quoted By:

>>49735187
Type is determined by what they get STAB in. We all know I'm right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 01:53:14 No.49738837 Report

Quoted By:

>>49735280
>Yeah but, in Krookodile's case, why is he Ground?
You find him in a desert.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 02:23:39 No.49739073 Report

Quoted By:

>>49737758
It's in the fairy egg group, as for Chansey it reminds me more of a chicken than a fairy.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO PetrifiedWood.jpg, 150KiB, 1024x768

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 03:07:38 No.49739392 Report

Quoted By: >>49739768 >>49739993

>>49737758
>Sudowoodo a rock?
Surely you've heard of petrified wood, right?
Right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 04:10:06 No.49739768 Report

Quoted By: >>49739940

>>49738430
>>49739392
>sudowoodo is made of rock
At least you've let me know not to bother.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 04:45:29 No.49739940 Report

Quoted By:

>>49739768
Yes holy shit please stop trying

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 04:50:28 No.49739968 Report

Quoted By:

>>49737758
>Why is Chansey normal?
It should be fairy but that would make the line incredibly broken with the fighting resistance and dragon immunity.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 26 Feb 2022 04:58:18 No.49739993 Report

Quoted By:

>>49739392
>Sudowoodo is rock type because it's make of wood

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