/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #49809600

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Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 20:57:38 No.49809600 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>49809604 >>49809613 >>49809620 >>49809638 >>49809695 >>49809798 >>49810713 >>49811585 >>49811712 >>49812301 >>49813415 >>49813436 >>49813471 >>49813499 >>49813918 >>49814428

Who wins?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 20:58:08 No.49809604 Report

Quoted By: >>49811724

>>49809600
Milotic

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 20:59:09 No.49809613 Report

Quoted By: >>49809930 >>49811724

>>49809600
Milotic

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 20:59:51 No.49809620 Report

Quoted By: >>49809930 >>49813460

>>49809600
Gyarados better than Tentacruel
Milotic better than Peliper
Slowking better than literally who
Lapras better than Quagsire
Gyarados better than Milotic
Lapras better than Slowking
Lapras better than Gyarados.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 21:00:54 No.49809637 Report

Quoted By: >>49809651 >>49809930

>Round 1
Gyarados
Milotic
Slowking
Quagsire

>Round 2
Gyarados
Quagsire

>Round 3
Quagsire

Quagsire always wins.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 21:00:56 No.49809638 Report

Quoted By: >>49809930

>>49809600
Quagsire

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 21:02:01 No.49809651 Report

Quoted By: >>49809664

>>49809637
>Lapras used Freeze-Dry!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 21:03:04 No.49809664 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809651
>Quagsire killed Lapras because Quagsire always wins!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 21:04:54 No.49809695 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
None other than him

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 21:14:27 No.49809798 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
Note: This is about designs I don't give a fuck about Smogon or death battle
>Gyarados and Tentacruel are actually close with a similar goal and no glaring weaknesses, Gyarados gets the edge on intimidating/badass factor
>Milotic is a great feminine take on Gyarados without feeling to similar, Pelliper loses because of his weird wing fingers and mouth body.
>Carracosta is pretty cool and a tough fight for Slowking but ultimately Slowking has a better face and leaves a bigger impression
>Quagsire is iconic but Lapras is the clear winner with a perfectly appealing, strong, majestic and functional design. Quagsire's tail isn't perfect and his design is less multifaceted.
>Gyarados beats Milotic, they're both really great but Gyarados has essentially no flaws in its design whereas Milotic's got an "OHNONONO LOOK AT THE TOP OF HER HEAD" facter that detracts from her purpose.
>Lapras is an easy win over Slowking who is simply outclassed on a fundemental level
>Both Gyarados and Lapras are flawless executions of what they represent, but Lapras is more nuanced and specific in terms of goals.
>Lapras wins, which isn't surprising because it's one of the best Pokemon designs ever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 21:25:13 No.49809930 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809637
>>49809638
literal retards
>>49809613
wrong
>>49809620x
the only correct answer. The only one here who could actually beat Lapras is Milotic, but it loses to Gyarados.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 21:35:50 No.49810052 Report

Quoted By: >>49811724

Milotic

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 22:35:01 No.49810713 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
Gyrados, Pelipper, Slowking Quagsire.
First place is Gyrados second is Quagsire.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 23:53:22 No.49811585 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
Slowking wins. Amnesia/Substitute/Slack Off/Psychic, max HP/Def, bold. I'm assuming no items or moveset changes between fights.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Mar 2022 23:57:47 No.49811641 Report

Quoted By:

I wonder who has tbolt to wreck all others…
>but muh Quagsire!
Freeze dry lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 00:04:43 No.49811712 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
MILOTIC MILOTIC MILOTIC MILOTIC MILOTIC MILOTIC MILOTIC MILOTIC MILOTIC MILOTIC MILOTIC MILOTIC

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 00:05:58 No.49811724 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809604
>>49809613
>>49810052
YES YES YES

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 00:09:46 No.49811761 Report

Quoted By: >>49811792

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 00:13:18 No.49811792 Report

Quoted By:

>>49811761
BURN IN HECK!!! MILOTIC SUPERIOR!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 00:19:01 No.49811851 Report

Quoted By:

These threads would be better if people explained why.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 00:59:55 No.49812301 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
Gyarados > Tentacruel
Milotic > Pelipper
Carracosta > Slowking
Quagsire > Lapras

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 01:01:58 No.49812317 Report

Quoted By:

Gyarados solos if he brings power whip

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 01:44:28 No.49812758 Report

Quoted By:

Why is everyone saying Quagsire beats Lapras? Am I missing something? I'm pretty sure Freeze Dry defeats it. I'm not sure how Lapras would fare against a Carracosta however, due to STAB Rock weakness but otherwise Lapras should handle nearly everyone here.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 02:33:45 No.49813156 Report

Quoted By: >>49813215 >>49813438 >>49813581 >>49813613

0 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 81-96 (24.4 - 29%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tentacruel: 248-292 (82.3 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gyarados beats Tentacruel
0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 94-112 (28.3 - 33.8%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pelipper in Rain: 118-140 (45.2 - 53.6%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO
Milotic beats Pelipper
0 SpA Slowking Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Carracosta: 184-217 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 139-165 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Slowking Focus Blast vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Carracosta: 370-436 (128 - 150.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (living with sturdy)
+2 0 Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 277-327 (83.6 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Carracosta cannot win vs Slowking regardless of set.
0 SpA Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 372-444 (112.3 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lapras wins by default due to being faster.

0 SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 65-77 (19.6 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Gyarados Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Milotic: 254-300 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gyarados beats Milotic
0 SpA Slowking Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lapras: 180-214 (44.8 - 53.3%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 122-146 (36.8 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Due to Slack Off, Slowking beats Lapras by alternating between Slack Off and Focus Blast

0 SpA Slowking Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 116-138 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Gyarados Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 252-298 (76.1 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gyarados is the winner.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 02:42:34 No.49813215 Report

Quoted By:

>>49813156
Carracosta learns Crunch, so it should be able to deal with Slowking.
Lapras takes care of Quagsire for it, and it just takes over the competition from there thanks to Sturdy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:07:18 No.49813415 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
Gyarados always beats Tentacruel and Milotic, while Milotic always beats Pelipper. Pelipper would beat Gyarados, though. Carracosta mostly beats Slowking, Lapras always beats Quagsire. Lapras, Carracosta and Gyarados can all beat each other depending on sets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:09:55 No.49813436 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
Lapras. It's Gigantamax form is insane and it has Freeze Dry to super effective every mon here, even 4x against Gyarados, Peliper and Quagsire. And if that doesn't work? Perish stall them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:10:23 No.49813438 Report

Quoted By:

>>49813156
>0 SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados
It learns thunderbolt and EVs and natures change all of these.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:13:17 No.49813460 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809620
this

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:14:38 No.49813471 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
Gyarados AND Carracosta would be the final two.

Gyarados has the coverage and power to defeat everything with a mix of Earthquake/Power Whip and Thunderbolt. However, Carracosta has Sturdy and Stone Edge so Gyara would have to hit it twice. Intimidate should have it live an edge though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:17:08 No.49813499 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
Lapras with freeze dry autowins

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:25:03 No.49813578 Report

Quoted By: >>49813605

I'm using their most frequent sets for these calcs

Round 1
>252 Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Tentacruel: 260-306 (71.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
>0 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 81-96 (24.4 - 29%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gyarados wins

Round 2
>0 SpA Milotic Scald vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pelipper in Rain: 86-102 (26.6 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
>0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 104+ SpD Milotic: 78-93 (19.8 - 23.6%) -- possible 5HKO
Milotic wins

>Round 3
>+2 252+ Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 378-445 (95.9 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
>4 SpA Slowking Scald vs. -2 0 HP / 0- SpD Carracosta: 276-325 (95.5 - 112.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Slowking wins (it gets a 2HKO with Scald even if Carracosta runs White Herb, while Carracosta has a 75% chance to 2HKO if it hits both Stone Edges, making it less likely to win but still very possible)

Round 4
>0 SpA Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 372-444 (94.4 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
I don't even need to do a calc for Quag, it automatically loses

Round 5
>252 Atk Gyarados Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Milotic: 260-308 (66.1 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>0 SpA Milotic Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 42-51 (12.6 - 15.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Now, it's possible for Gyarados to lose, but the Milotic player would have to get very lucky and dodge several Power Whips and also land Toxic or a Scald burn. Either way, Gyarados wins

Round 6
>0 SpA Slowking Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lapras: 97-115 (20.9 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
>0 SpA Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 90-108 (22.8 - 27.4%) -- 46.3% chance to 4HKO
Neither of them can convincingly KO eachother, but Slowking has better recovery in Slack Off and Lapras has to rely on RestTalk. It's very luck based due to Sleep Talk, but with Slowking only being able to damage through Future Sight, Lapras would win.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:25:06 No.49813581 Report

Quoted By:

>>49813156
you forgot that quagsire is based

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:29:23 No.49813605 Report

Quoted By: >>49813632

>>49813578
So ultimately, it'd be Gyarados vs Lapras, and Gyarados gets 2HKO'd by Freeze Dry guaranteed
>0 SpA Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 268-316 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
while Lapras gets sometimes 2HKO'd by Power Whip
>252 Atk Gyarados Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Lapras: 306-360 (65.9 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The final battle is entirely luck based. If Gyarados lands both Power Whips, it automatically wins. If Lapras dodges a Power Whip OR gets the 20% freeze chance, it wins. Ultimately, Gyarados is the more frequent winner. It's not in the bag for either of them, so there is no clear victor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:30:48 No.49813613 Report

Quoted By: >>49813667

>>49813156
>Lapras vs Slowking
There's always the chance Lapras uses Sheer Cold as well so the match there isn't as decisive as it seems. There is also the Rest + Sleep Talk set which may stall out the 5 PP Focus Blast, so this can go either way. Slowking can still use Nasty Plot + Focus Blast, however, but risks being 3HKOd by Freeze Dry and not quite landing the OHKO on Lapras. Lapras then can beat Gyarados pretty easily.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:32:49 No.49813632 Report

Quoted By: >>49813692

>>49813605
Don't forget:
>0 Atk Lapras Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 46-55 (13.8 - 16.6%) -- possible 7HKO
Lapras can still secure the victory with Freeze Dry + Ice Shard sometimes. Also why are we running EVs on the Gyarados and Lapras here? I thought we are assuming 0 EVs on everyone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:37:50 No.49813667 Report

Quoted By: >>49813691

>>49813613
Lapras learns Megahorn, it can just use that to 2HKO Slowking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:40:33 No.49813691 Report

Quoted By:

>>49813667
I wasn't aware of that. I forgot Sword/Shield gave a lot of new TM/TR.
>0 Atk Lapras Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 180-214 (54.3 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah if both of them land it's more in favour of Lapras in this round.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:40:41 No.49813692 Report

Quoted By: >>49813730

>>49813632
I was using their most used Smogon singles sets since any other set would be absolutely arbitrary. You could technically make the sets custom-made to counter each different Pokemon, like by giving Lapras a Rindo Berry to no-sale Gyarados' Power Whip, among other things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 03:45:10 No.49813730 Report

Quoted By:

>>49813692
I was assuming everyone has no items, no EVs, neutral nature, but the only thing customised are movepools that are custom tailored to 1v1 their opponent most favourably. If you are going by Smogon's rules, some moves like OHKO moves are banned, and some of the Pokemon have EVs and items tailored towards their respective controlled tier environment, so it's not really telling on what would work. Then anyone can beat anyone since you can just put a choice item on anyone and such, so I think just going blank slate with best moves possible to fight opposition seems the most fair way to settle this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 04:07:20 No.49813918 Report

Quoted By: >>49813969

>>49809600
>Be Larpas
>In trouble?
>Gigantamax
>else use Freeze-Dry
>???

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 04:12:07 No.49813969 Report

Quoted By:

>>49813918
G-Max Freeze Dry turns to a normal Ice move that's not very effective on most Waters sadly. I guess it can use Max Lightning though. Also you'd have to DMax everyone else here too then and it'd probably end up differently. GMax Resonance will help Lapras survive more hits though, but in some matchups like against Quagsire, it's better off not even Maxing out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 05:08:23 No.49814428 Report

Quoted By:

>>49809600
Caracosta can survive the one round necessary to set up shell smash against all of these. With liquidation, earth quake and stonedge it can reliably kill most of every thing except quagsire or slowking.

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