/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #49822057

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Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 22:52:48 No.49822057 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>49822091 >>49822108 >>49822127 >>49822306 >>49822426 >>49822583 >>49822727 >>49822831 >>49822858 >>49822985 >>49823081 >>49823091

Explain how Mega Evolution isn't a series staple akin to Abilities or Held Items.
I'll wait.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 22:55:55 No.49822091 Report

Quoted By: >>49822130

>>49822057
It's only been in two gens.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 22:57:22 No.49822108 Report

Quoted By: >>49822130

>>49822057
A new cope thread already? You haven't even started spamming in the other one yet.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 22:58:57 No.49822119 Report

Quoted By: >>49822862 >>49823078

>mechanic kills ClefPex cores
>Gets removed

Very sad, many such cases

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 22:59:43 No.49822127 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822057
Its a shit gimmick that nobody besides some children and man-children on /vp/ likes

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 22:59:59 No.49822130 Report

Quoted By: >>49822176 >>49822594 >>49822896

>>49822091
Abilities were in 4/7 before getting removed. People like to compare megas to Z-Moves and Dynamax but how is that comparison fair when Megas lasted two full generations while the gimmicks can't even last one full one?
>>49822108
Dilate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:04:29 No.49822176 Report

Quoted By: >>49822210 >>49822909

>>49822130
Abilities are returning in gen 9, they have only been missing from experimental games since gen 3.
The ONLY reason megas made it to gen 7 was that they wanted to do a slow fadeout to get people used to the idea of rotating gimmicks. Even SM just stuffed them in the post-game where they do nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:07:21 No.49822210 Report

Quoted By: >>49822263

>>49822176
>Even SM just stuffed them in the post-game where they do nothing.
No it didn't. SM tweaked many of their stats, reworked the speed calculation on a turn one mon mega evolves, and gave them unique dex entries

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:12:38 No.49822263 Report

Quoted By: >>49822276 >>49822288

>>49822210
All of which is only accesible in the post-game for use in battle facilities or online. They also rebalanced Talonflame a little bit before dropping it into a random route, do you think there was a big plan behind that too?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:14:11 No.49822276 Report

Quoted By: >>49822401

>>49822263
>All of which is only accesible in the post-game for use in battle facilities or online
The games that brought Megas to the main series games did this same thing with the exception of Lucario and the Kanto starters. They have always been a primarily post-game feature.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:15:12 No.49822288 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822263
Seems like more of an issue of SM/USUM having no postgame and wanting to pad it out. SWSH does the same thing with the money grind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:16:55 No.49822306 Report

Quoted By: >>49822354

>>49822057
Not every Pokemon has a Mega Evolution while every Pokemon has abilities and the ability to hold items since Gen 2&3 respectfully.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:22:25 No.49822354 Report

Quoted By: >>49822373

>>49822306
Not every Pokemon has forms that change according to the weather or what item they hold. That's just how the battle system has always worked since their introduction in the first place, and you don't hear people saying that about Castform/Cherrim/Giratina/Arceus/Silvally's forms

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:24:27 No.49822373 Report

Quoted By: >>49822423

>>49822354
Ok, so what does that have to with anything?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:26:51 No.49822401 Report

Quoted By: >>49822423

>>49822276
Yes, megas being mostly post-game exclusive in XY was one of the major problems with their creation. ORAS fixed that before SM went back to reducing their importance to set up the later removal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:29:36 No.49822423 Report

Quoted By: >>49822564

>>49822373
Not all Pokemon are equal. Form changes have always been a signifier of that. Just like not every mon has a regional form not every one has a mega evolution-- but there's nothing preventing that from being the case later on.
>>49822401
In other words megas being post-game is nothing new. Since you admit this, why keep forcing the comparison to Z-Moves and Dynamax? Gen 7's remake had mega evolutions but no Z-Moves while Gen 8's remakes had new parameters for megas in both instances but nothing changed for Dynamax.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:29:43 No.49822426 Report

Quoted By: >>49822436

>>49822057
They look like shit digimon
They aren't canon.
Simple as.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:30:37 No.49822436 Report

Quoted By: >>49822762

>>49822426
>They look like shit Digimon
Thread is about Megas, not Gigantamax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:36:47 No.49822494 Report

Quoted By:

>ITT: More Kalosperm cope
They're never coming back. Get over it. We're in the Dynamax universe, son. Soon enough they'll announce Gen IX's gimmick.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:44:42 No.49822564 Report

Quoted By: >>49822582

>>49822423
>mega evolution was poorly designed and used, thatmeans it HAS TO be coming back because later gimmicks were better designed!
Those are some impressive mental gymnastics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:46:46 No.49822582 Report

Quoted By: >>49822781

>>49822564
>because later gimmicks were better designed
The gimmicks are automatically designed to all be shit because they will never be tweaked or adjusted in the same way that megas, base stat adjustments, and HA/Ability changes did. All things that debuted in the same game that introduced mega evolutions and further expanded on by regional forms.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:46:46 No.49822583 Report

Quoted By: >>49822614

>>49822057
Didn't they include this filter so LGPE/GO fags wouldn't felt left out?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:47:48 No.49822594 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822130
Abilities were in Gens 3-8, so 6/8 actually. Got removed in two experimental games.

Megas are a gimmick, cope.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:48:55 No.49822607 Report

Quoted By:

they've added more abilities and held items since the generation where they were introduced

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Mar 2022 23:49:24 No.49822614 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822583
It's been that way since the beginning of Home's release. At which time Go didn't have megas and SWSH were the only mainline games out.
If it were for inclusion they would have put Gigantamax forms there but they made it pretty clear what kind of filters are given slots like that by placing Megas alongside regionals and shinies.
I don't see any "Special Form" category just for the Megas+Ultra Necrozma+Gmax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:02:35 No.49822727 Report

Quoted By: >>49822782

>>49822057
Abilities:
>Introduced in gen 3 as an additional mechanic to consider on top of stats and movepool, not used as a game specific plot element.
>Every gen introduced new abilities and many mons who heavily depended on them like Cherrim
>Only became more central to the battle system from then on
Megas:
>Introduced in gen 6, barely used at all in game despite being focused on by the plot, also shoe horned into ORAS while also barely being in them outside the post game.
>Never mentioned again, carried over in gen 7 as a formality then removed right after
They’re nothing alike. One is a mechanic, an innovation, one is a surface level gimmick created to make kids go “WOAH COOL” and wanna buy product.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:06:25 No.49822762 Report

Quoted By: >>49822798 >>49822838

>>49822436
They’re both equally bad dude. Tired of XYgotes trying to pretend megas are somehow different from the other gimmicks because gen 7 included them as a hold over mechanic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:08:34 No.49822781 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822582
That was a lot of words and yet none of it actually adressed what I said. You changed topics completely and then just made a list of features that aren't comparable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:08:44 No.49822782 Report

Quoted By: >>49822891

>>49822727
Megas were a significant part of ORAS, especially compared to XY-- and for good reason, Megas were only given to older Pokemon.
Newfags seem to have the misconception that Megas were added to ORAS because they were in XY rather than the other way around.
>Never mentioned again, carried over in gen 7 as a formality
Most megas got major tweaks and the mechanic itself was reworked to account for speed differences. Gen 7 also added Pokedex entries for them-- in Gen 6 they shared the original form ones and this is true despite SM/USUM also being the first games to not include the National Dex.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:10:05 No.49822798 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822762
>megas are somehow different from the other gimmicks
They aren't. Megas are fairly similar to the other gimmicks like abilities and held items. That's what I said.
What does that have to do with Z-Moves and Dynamax?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:13:20 No.49822831 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822057
gmax>z-moves>megas
that being said, I'm happy to leave z-moves in gen 7. I would rather see gmax return before megas, though

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:14:11 No.49822838 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822762
>hold over mechanic.
You have no idea what this means.
A holdover mechanic is Gen 5 having ribbons despite not using them or having any new ones. Megas got a ton of new shit in Gen 7.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:16:05 No.49822858 Report

Quoted By: >>49822930

>>49822057
abilities and held items have existed longer so it’s natural people expect them to return for mainline games. Even if they remove them entirely they’re not a gimmick. You would only begin to remotely consider them in the same category as megas if your first pokemon game was xy which is a fair indication that you’re underage and you need to fuck off

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:16:40 No.49822862 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822119
>>mechanic kills ClefPex cores
>>Gets removed
>Very sad, many such cases

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:19:02 No.49822891 Report

Quoted By: >>49822926 >>49822938 >>49823133

>>49822782
If ORAS were planned to have megas before XY why did XY have lore for mega evolution that directly contradicts ORAS's story? Why would they design a bunch of megas and then only put half of them in XY? Why would they release Blazekin but not the other starters?
Also, if mega evolution is just a gimmick for remakes where was it in BDSP?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:19:13 No.49822896 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822130
>he think lgpe and legends are real pokemon games
lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:20:31 No.49822909 Report

Quoted By: >>49823091

>>49822176
>megas
>xy, oras, sm, usum, lgpe, go

>z-moves
>sm, usum

>dynamax
>swsh

insane that anyone thinks megas are on the same level as those two shit gimmicks

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:21:05 No.49822919 Report

Quoted By:

It's a stupid "Press X to BADASS" gimmick, it's not a natural build up of the core mechanics like held items, abilities etc. have been
Once they finished with the DS they realised they needed some shiny new keys to hold the toddlers attention and that's why they were made

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:21:35 No.49822926 Report

Quoted By: >>49822991

>>49822891
bdsp is a spinoff. it dosen’t count.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:22:01 No.49822930 Report

Quoted By: >>49822974

>>49822858
Abilities were around for 15 years before getting removed.
Megas were around for 7 years.
Triple and Rotation battles were around for 6 years.
Z-Moves barely lasted 2 years
Dynamax barely lasted 2 years

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:23:08 No.49822938 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822891
>why did XY have lore for mega evolution that directly contradicts ORAS's story?
What? Play the games. XY directly sets up ORAS's story. That was the entire point of XY's postgame (where megas are even relevant) and the Delta Episode.
Holy shit gimmicktards are delusional

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:27:23 No.49822974 Report

Quoted By: >>49822992

>>49822930
Abilities haven’t even been removed it’s silly to even describe it like that. They were in swsh, it’s a hidden trait in PLA (pokemon you transfer from PLA have abilities), if they’re not utilized in SV then that’s a bigger indication it’s actually a removed feature.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:28:45 No.49822985 Report

Quoted By: >>49823002

>>49822057
Because it was only in one gen faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:29:17 No.49822991 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822926
>"remakes are spinoffs unless i like them!"
the state of baiters

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:29:21 No.49822992 Report

Quoted By: >>49823051

>>49822974
>Abilities haven’t even been removed
Abilities have been absent in 2 games since their introduction.
Megas have been absent in 2 games since their introduction, 3 if you count BDSP which still gave parameters for Mega Abilities that weren't present in SWSH.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:30:22 No.49823002 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822985
Why force the comparison to Z-Moves and Dynamax then? They can't even stay in one full gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:31:03 No.49823007 Report

Quoted By: >>49823024 >>49823054

>It's another "Gimmick means Regional" thread
It's honest to Arceus no wonder we may very well be getting them back in SV. I know GF have grown spines due to their playerbase but you can only take so much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:32:24 No.49823024 Report

Quoted By:

>>49823007
It will be extremely cathartic seeing cope from you fags when it happens and the new argument is "THEY ONLY DID IT BECAUSE OF YOUR WHINING IT WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO LEAVE GEN 6!!"
Dilate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:34:48 No.49823051 Report

Quoted By: >>49823084

>>49822992
if you’re counting “parameters” then all games have abilities because again pokemon from PLA transferred to other games will have abilities and if you hack in pokemon with pkhex you can choose the ability, even if it’s not active or showing in the actual game. It’s an inherent trait like IVs

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:35:16 No.49823054 Report

Quoted By:

>>49823007
>It's honest to Arceus
This has to be bait

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:37:20 No.49823078 Report

Quoted By: >>49823099 >>49823120

>>49822119
Prior to Sableye being banned Gen 6 was the most stall-favoured meta since Gen 2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:37:36 No.49823081 Report

Quoted By: >>49823198

>>49822057
It's a shit gimmick like Z moves and Dynamax.
Half the megas would have been better off as an actual evolution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:37:58 No.49823084 Report

Quoted By:

>>49823051
Parameters meaning functionality. There's a difference between abilities existing in the code as leftovers and them being functional-- BDSP functional Parental Bond and Primordial Sea.
But you're right. That's why abilities are battle staples despite being removed. The same applies to megas.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:38:46 No.49823091 Report

Quoted By: >>49823226 >>49823440

>>49822057
>>49822909
Megas are weird because the core series has pretty clearly moved past them but they're still relevant in a lot of other aspects
Just looking at Gen 8 alone:
>Pokémon Mystery Dungeon remakes added them
>Pokemon Go has them and regularly adds them
>Pokemon Masters EX has them and regularly adds them
>They're in Home despite literally just not existing in any way in games you can transfer Home mons into
>Ash has a Mega Lucario on his team right now for the anime
The whole argument in general is so weird because neither is side is really right or wrong. It's definitely not something Game Freak is interested in having in the mainline games anymore, but at the exact same time, they're still clearly wanting to keep it in the series to some extent.

I don't mind if they never bring it back but if they don't, I really hope they go back and give mons like Absol and Mawile an actual proper evo

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:39:36 No.49823099 Report

Quoted By: >>49823201

>>49823078
Exactly, that's why Megas are superior since Toxapex is a Gen 7 Mon and the Megas were tweaked according to what worked and what didn't in Gen 6.
Meanwhile the gimmicks exist solely to be something new for the sake of being something new-- irrelevant to whether or not it's balanced.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:41:09 No.49823120 Report

Quoted By: >>49823201

>>49823078
>Prior to Sableye being banned
And guess what? Prankster was changed in Gen 7 which in turn greatly affected Mega Sableye's usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:42:01 No.49823133 Report

Quoted By:

>>49822891
>Why would they release Blazekin but not the other starters?
What? Mega Blaziken was clearly released in XY as a teaser for ORAS, why else do you think it was Blaziken and not e.g. Typhlosion or Infernape? Obviously gen 3 remakes were already being worked on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:48:31 No.49823198 Report

Quoted By:

>>49823081
>It's a shit gimmick like Z moves and Dynamax.
Explain how.
>Half the megas would have been better off as an actual evolution.
No they wouldn't have. The designs lend themselves better only in direct context to the one they're based on and mechanically they only work as a mid-battle evo to change the ability and strategy of each one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:48:46 No.49823201 Report

Quoted By: >>49823237

>>49823099
>gen 7 is bad because toxapex walls me
>n-never mind how broken mega sableye stall was in 6
Gen 7 and 8 are extremely weak for stall. You don't play the game.

>>49823120
Prankster was changed because of VGC where Mega Sableye was total shit anyways. The face that it happened to nerf it enough for OU was just a coincidence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:51:05 No.49823226 Report

Quoted By:

>>49823091
Not to mention gigantamax is just megas with extra gimmick
The genie's definitely out of the bottle, they can't get rid of megas if that's what they're hoping for thanks to fan attachment to the concept if not a specific mega.
The best case scenario is to roll all the mid-match powerups under one unified system (mega/giganta centric since that sells the most) and go from there

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 00:52:18 No.49823237 Report

Quoted By:

>>49823201
>>gen 7 is bad because toxapex walls me
I never said that, I even implied the opposite.
Not worth arguing with you until you learn to read. Gen 7 is shit for being shit games, but the meta was actually pretty good there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 03 Mar 2022 01:14:37 No.49823440 Report

Quoted By:

>>49823091
The simple conclusion here is that Gamefreak is done with megas but TPC as always just want to shill whatever they attached to. The devs wanted to mix up battles and push some old mons but weren't sure what they were doing in gen 6.
By gen 7 they had a more solid idea and split the two between Z-moves and Regional forms, so that the buffs could be semi-permanent (and easier to design/balance) and the battle changes could rotate in case any more mistakes like the OP megas were made.
In that way, the defenders are right that megas were different from the "regional" gimmicks because the final concept improved in many ways from gen 6's partial idea.

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