/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #50660822

[73 / 6 / 41]

735KiB, 888x1502, sabrina and chingling2.jpg

Smogon is considering adding a freeze clause, thoughts?

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:09:17 No.50660822 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>50660828 >>50660837 >>50660854 >>50660916 >>50661246 >>50661403 >>50661470 >>50661502 >>50661607 >>50662841 >>50663122 >>50664309 >>50664984 >>50667359 >>50670057 >>50670128 >>50670396 >>50670663

Basically, with this clause, only 1 pokemon per team can get frozen at once (like the sleep clause).
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/freeze-clause.3702722/
Literal fanfic LOL

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:10:06 No.50660828 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660822
I nean I get pissed when I get frozen from an ice beam sometimes but what the fuck lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:11:36 No.50660837 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660822
Surely Sleep and Freeze are both sufficently nerfed at this point that it's not necessary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:13:24 No.50660854 Report

Quoted By: >>50661587 >>50664247

>>50660822
>Wants game to not be luck based
>Doesn't change stone edge and focus blast accuracy to 100%
Why are they such fucking hypocrites?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:13:25 No.50660855 Report

Quoted By: >>50661605

smogon malding and balding because I'm running ice punch jirachi
this literally does not matter who gives a shit you're not gonna see double freeze outside of some stallfag getting cocky

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:22:16 No.50660916 Report

Quoted By: >>50660946 >>50660980 >>50663145

>>50660822
Freeze was a shitty mechanic to begin with. Too powerful to let it proc on command like Sleep, so instead it almost never procs and can't be used deliberately. Frostbite is superior in every way and the solution is to replace Freeze for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:25:52 No.50660945 Report

Quoted By: >>50661189

if you read the thread you'll notice it's not "smogon" and just a couple adv/gen4 trannies malding hard and the whole thread disagreeing with them

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:26:20 No.50660946 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660916
its immersive imo

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:31:52 No.50660980 Report

Quoted By: >>50661054 >>50661122 >>50661130 >>50662814 >>50671330 >>50672274

>>50660916
Freeze is the ONLY saving grace that Ice types have from not being the shittiest type.
Take that away and they'll have nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:43:41 No.50661054 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660980
How is it a saving grace when it almost never procs and you can't build any strategy around freezing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:53:45 No.50661122 Report

Quoted By: >>50661139

>>50660980
1. There's no move or ability that causes the Freeze status at a decent rate, so you can't really build a strategy around it
2. Even if there were, it would only benefit pokemon with that move or ability, not Ice types in general, so they'd still be shit; Ice types need more resistances than none at all and some other buffs that only affect pokemon that are Ice/whatever in order to be remotely not trash

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:54:58 No.50661130 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660980
someone post the image

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:55:35 No.50661132 Report

Quoted By:

>Freeze, unlike Paraflinch, is not an actual strategy.
FANFIC META

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:57:09 No.50661139 Report

Quoted By: >>50661157

>>50661122
Ice should really resist flying (hard like rock) and water (more ice than water leads to frozen water. More water than ice leads to melted ice).

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 00:59:11 No.50661157 Report

Quoted By: >>50661170 >>50661340

>>50661139
And Fairy, since fairies live in like gardens and enchanted forests and shit, not frozen tundras

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 01:02:25 No.50661170 Report

Quoted By: >>50661263 >>50661597

>>50661157
Eurocentric racist post that ignores all of the mythical creatures that live in the Americans plains, deserts, mountains, and snowy areas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 01:05:31 No.50661189 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660945
What's weird is that they cite Jirachi as the main culprit, not even Serene Grace in general, JUST Jirachi. Yet their proposal is moding the system instead of just banning Jirachi, literally the opposite of Smogon's policy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 01:09:55 No.50661217 Report

Quoted By:

didn't read the post but that's a cute pic OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 01:14:50 No.50661246 Report

Quoted By: >>50663056

>>50660822
If they're already doing things that aren't achievable on cart (sleep clause could at least work on the honor system in all but a few niche cases), they might as well just fully mod the game to remove RNG.
Remove flinching, remove any chances of status effects, remove damage rolls, make inaccurate moves accurate (with more consistent downsides for balances sake).
If they just openly stated that trying to represent the actual games while keeping things competitive was a sisyphean task, and that they're not even going to bother anymore, I think it would be much more well-received.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 01:17:04 No.50661263 Report

Quoted By: >>50661340

>>50661170
American fairies live in California.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 01:26:15 No.50661340 Report

Quoted By: >>50661620

>>50661157
Yuki-Onnas.

>>50661263
KEK

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 01:33:32 No.50661403 Report

Quoted By: >>50662582

>>50660822
JUST BAN FREEZE DRY
FUCKING
MORONS

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 01:44:23 No.50661470 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660822
This should be a standard for all Status Effects. Scald is anti-competitive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 01:49:07 No.50661502 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660822
Stadium did this over twenty years ago.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 02:00:14 No.50661587 Report

Quoted By: >>50664247

>>50660854
Why not just give everyone No Guard and have all matches be OHKO move duels?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO wendussy.jpg, 86KiB, 750x533

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 02:02:18 No.50661597 Report

Quoted By:

>>50661170
I'll give a shit when they make a Fairy-type skinwalker pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 02:02:39 No.50661605 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660855
It can and does happen, it is rare though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 02:03:26 No.50661607 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660822
Just use Sunny Day or Flare Blitz lol

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1611005041701.jpg, 43KiB, 250x450

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 02:05:11 No.50661620 Report

Quoted By: >>50661680

>>50661340
>Yuki-Onnas.
too late, Ice/Ghost

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 02:12:36 No.50661680 Report

Quoted By:

>>50661620
ye but im just saying there are those types of creatures that live in icy places. like the snow queen and such.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 03:59:48 No.50662582 Report

Quoted By:

>>50661403
>making water even more OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 04:32:51 No.50662814 Report

Quoted By: >>50670700

>>50660980
Ice is a type that's not necessarily bad, just misused. It's really good offensively and horrendous defensively. So ice is beneficial to glass cannon mons who don't care about defenses. Instead nearly every ice mon is slow and "bulky", if you can be considered bulky when you have so many common weaknesses and zero useful resistances.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 04:37:40 No.50662841 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660822
>Ban a mechanic that is based 100% on luck and players have no control over
Cuckgon making fools of themselves exhibit #7366291

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 04:37:46 No.50662842 Report

Quoted By:

If you have to remove this many aspects of a video game to make it a viable """"e-sport"""" then just give it up kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 05:09:39 No.50663056 Report

Quoted By: >>50664058 >>50670011

>>50661246
I feel like 0 RNG would turn pokemon into a numbers game where you can figure out who's going to win before the match starts. Not to say you shouldn't remove as many factors out of the player control as possible, like for flinches, it would be a good idea that every time a pokemon gets flinches they get a percentage based resistance to it, the more times it's flinched the less likely it will happen again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 05:20:10 No.50663122 Report

Quoted By: >>50665784

>>50660822
>thoughts?
Yeah, which smogonfag lost the grand total of $50 for their big annual tournament this time due to a game mechanic that has been in since the inception of the series?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 05:24:15 No.50663145 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660916
>Frostbite replaces freeze
>all water types a frostbite variation of Scald
it's inevitable

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 09:18:19 No.50664058 Report

Quoted By:

>>50663056
>I feel like 0 RNG would turn pokemon into a numbers game where you can figure out who's going to win before the match starts.
There is one factor that you can't account for even without RNG, and that's your opponent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 10:31:12 No.50664247 Report

Quoted By: >>50664689

>>50660854
>>50661587
Banning/limiting things and changing game mechanics are very different concepts. Smogon did not modify stats/moves/items etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 10:42:54 No.50664274 Report

Quoted By:

VGC would be better if they didn’t allow legendaries. Pokémon competitive will always be a joke

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 10:54:38 No.50664309 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660822
I mean Freeze shouldn't be in the game, PLA showed them, that is all

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 12:33:23 No.50664689 Report

Quoted By: >>50664765

>>50664247
But they are changing game mechanics here. That's the reason why this is controversial even among smogonfags.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 12:33:48 No.50664692 Report

Quoted By:

>Freeze bad
>Scald good

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 12:54:01 No.50664765 Report

Quoted By: >>50664786

>>50664689
It's not unlike Sleep clause, even if really unnecessary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 13:00:35 No.50664786 Report

Quoted By:

>>50664765
I don't think Sleep Clause is implemented well. I think it would be better to just not allow you to click a sleep move when another enemy is asleep, but still allow sleep caused by Effect Spore or when you're Encored.
But the difference is that Sleep can be induced on purpose, and moves and abilities that activate it as a secondary effect are rare.
Freeze can't be induced on purpose, and it's linked to arguably the best coverage type in the game.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Pokemon-Go-Jirachi-Cover.png, 1MiB, 1710x900

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 13:16:33 No.50664839 Report

Quoted By:

Jirachi did nothing wrong.
But Togekiss and Shaymin are still better.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Yawning2.jpg, 309KiB, 849x565

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 13:28:44 No.50664891 Report

Quoted By:

>actually letting a confirmed pedo grooming ring live rent-free in your mind
NGMI

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 13:53:47 No.50664984 Report

Quoted By: >>50664993 >>50664997

>>50660822
But you can't control freezing your opponent unlike putting them to sleep, it'd be like banning critical hits because "WAHH I LOST TO A LUCKY CRIT"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 13:55:20 No.50664993 Report

Quoted By:

>>50664984
One day Smogonites will realize they are playing a game with countless RNG mechanics intentionally designed to make battles more of a show than a real competitive activity.

And it's not today.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 13:55:59 No.50664997 Report

Quoted By:

>>50664984
exactly, Freeze is somewhat retarded, but smogfaggies are even more, they're completely retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 15:54:27 No.50665784 Report

Quoted By: >>50667395 >>50669539

>>50663122
You described perfectly the justification for the ban. Starmaster lost smogon tour 33 finals by staying in with latias to click ice beam against empo's magearna, who also clicked ice beam and freezed the latias.
This is despite the fact that starmaster has 4 magearna checks (chansey, bro, zone, and his own magearna). Staying in with the latias to ice beam is really only a decent play if empo tries a double switch to catch gliscor instead of just staying in to click a supereffective move or slow volt switch, but empo's best double switch options are KyuB (beats staying with latias, beats every switch but magearna) and medi (beats every switch option besides bro), who don't care about getting ice beamed once.
So basically the classic play like a drooling retard -> lose -> cry and try to change the game combo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 19:24:00 No.50667359 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660822
That's retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 19:28:06 No.50667395 Report

Quoted By: >>50668725

>>50665784
HAHAHAHAHA you serious?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2022 22:27:12 No.50668725 Report

Quoted By:

>>50667395
do you really need to ask

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 00:02:37 No.50669539 Report

Quoted By:

>>50665784
>So basically the classic play like a drooling retard -> lose -> cry and try to change the game combo.
The best example of this will always be the battle that got Kyurem banned.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-582952

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 00:05:20 No.50669560 Report

Quoted By:

Yet again I'll say, fuck Smogon, all they do is ban eerythingk8pxt

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 00:56:41 No.50670011 Report

Quoted By:

>>50663056
bravery network online proves this is not the case.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 01:01:43 No.50670057 Report

Quoted By: >>50670163 >>50670171

>>50660822
>Literal fanfic LOL
IT'S LITERALLY THE SAME AS FUCKING SLEEP CLAUSE, WHICH FUCKING STARTED IN POKEMON STADIUM.

YOU BITCH TRANNIES HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 01:08:47 No.50670128 Report

Quoted By: >>50670140

>>50660822
Gay and stupid, since it's not even like people are abusing freeze to begin with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 01:10:14 No.50670140 Report

Quoted By:

>>50670128
Like someone said, some salty smogonite probably lost to ice and now wants to ban it, but is fine with 30% omnipresent scald coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 01:13:22 No.50670163 Report

Quoted By:

>>50670057
1. sleep clause is gay
2. there aren't any moves that cause freeze that are comparable to hypnosis, sleep powder, hypnosis, dark void, etc.; freeze clause would literally be a clause against dumb luck

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 01:15:06 No.50670170 Report

Quoted By:

All the complaints about freeze come from Freeze Dry and it's 10% freeze chance
Freeze Dry basically has x2 resistances, Fire and Steel, both of which can still be frozen. So spamming Freeze Dry enough will get you a freeze.
Ice Beam has been legal for 22 years and never caused issues. Ban the move that turns a resistance into a weakness. Not even Thousand Arrows is that bad, it's at least Neutral to Flying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 01:15:08 No.50670171 Report

Quoted By: >>50670375

>>50670057
Since we're going of off just luck in general now and not things that can actively be abused by moves like sleep.

Why don't we just ban any moves that don't have 100 accuracy to make sure no one gets screwed over, so lets ban draco meteor too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 01:36:31 No.50670375 Report

Quoted By:

>>50670171
>Why don't we just ban any moves that don't have 100 accuracy to make sure no one gets screwed over, so lets ban draco meteor too.
I know you're exaggerating to make fun of them, but that's somehow less absurd than what Smogon is actually suggesting. Because at least you get to choose to use a move with less than 100 accuracy and the rule would therefore actually be possible on cart.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 01:39:15 No.50670396 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660822
This isnt even close stupidest thing Smogon has done but it's so rare that the clause would almost never come into effect.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1638384009631.png, 76KiB, 1474x262

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 02:21:28 No.50670663 Report

Quoted By: >>50673571

>>50660822
>lose tournament to RNG
>get butthurt and try to ban the thing you lost to
Why haven't the users on Smogon relentlessly mocked the staff for this?
>"a para clause would get no traction so there’s nothing to worry about"
I give it a week before they unironically bring up something like that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 02:27:19 No.50670700 Report

Quoted By: >>50670835

>>50662814
Why run an ice type when you can run a water type with an ice move?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 02:48:15 No.50670835 Report

Quoted By:

>>50670700
to flex

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 04:05:59 No.50671330 Report

Quoted By: >>50671413 >>50671682

>>50660980
Dude that's just straight up wrong, a one in a billion chance to say fuck you to one pokemon aint shit, feels like you'd land OHK moves more often then actually freeze someone.
I've seen the light that's frostbite, which despite seeming weaker on paper would end up an overall buff since it fucks over flamethrower and you're actually likely to have it stick to something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 04:20:56 No.50671413 Report

Quoted By:

>>50671330
>feels like you'd land OHK moves more often then actually freeze someone.
30% vs 10%

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 05:04:39 No.50671682 Report

Quoted By:

>>50671330
>a one in a billion chance
Blizzard under hail, which is not that hard to set up in vgc, has 49% chance to freeze at least one pokemon.
Again, they """balance""" this game around vgc, and it shows.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 07:00:30 No.50672274 Report

Quoted By:

>>50660980
Completely wrong.
Ice is one of the best, arguably the best, offensive type in the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 12:37:09 No.50673571 Report

Quoted By:

>>50670663
>Why haven't the users on Smogon relentlessly mocked the staff for this?
Some do. They usually get banned for it.

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

On these archives

Your latest searches

Smogon is considering adding a freeze clause, thoughts?