/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #50677230

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Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 21:18:47 No.50677230 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>50677629 >>50677664 >>50677691 >>50677821 >>50679086 >>50680284

I don't really miss HMs but I miss having to use MY pokemon to explore the region. I hope someday this come backs, not as HMs but instead as Mount tutors that teachs you how to use YOUR pokemon to swim and fly across the region.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 21:35:53 No.50677344 Report

Quoted By: >>50677395 >>50677603 >>50677631 >>50677697 >>50677908

I miss HMs entirely. These games were already easy, why remove something that adds some challenge to team building?

People complained about not being able to have all 4 moves on their Pokemon because of HMs... But why? Why do you need your Pokemon to have 4 Smogon-tier STAB/coverage moves in a series that's braindead easy? Even an HM slave Bibarel is still fucking strong compared to NPC Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 21:42:46 No.50677395 Report

Quoted By: >>50677664

>>50677344
Isn't some HMs like, competitively viable and not banned officially?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:12:32 No.50677603 Report

Quoted By: >>50677908

>>50677344
Fpbp
I miss strength puzzles, how can anyone dislike this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:16:04 No.50677629 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677230
I hate the HMs but now I miss the puzzles.
Is adding key items to accomplish this shit so hard? Even locking them in postgame is fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:16:31 No.50677631 Report

Quoted By: >>50681126

>>50677344
I think there is a sweet spot to be found with HMs. They facilitate natural progression and exploration that the games honestly miss sorely. The moves can be better, though. Not optimal, but at least as usable as strength.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:18:33 No.50677647 Report

Quoted By:

Of all the implementations of HMs in romhacks, I think Shin Red does it by far the best. Each pokemon gets a slot for a field move they can't use in battle. Normally, you'd use this for weaker HM moves but it also works with Dig and Teleport. It seems like a no brainer in retrospect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:19:58 No.50677664 Report

Quoted By: >>50677841

>>50677230
Removing HMs made the game devs lazier. Route design became simpler and the world became much smaller after Gen V.

>>50677395
Surf, maybe fly, and waterfall if you're desperate for a physical water move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:24:09 No.50677687 Report

Quoted By:

Yeah I'll say it, HMs are based.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:24:31 No.50677691 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677230
>but I miss having to use MY pokemon to explore the region
I don't. Thank fuck I'm not autistic.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1634272264395.jpg, 3MiB, 3279x2579

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:25:43 No.50677697 Report

Quoted By: >>50677728 >>50677735 >>50678529

>>50677344
>have no HMs
>using 1 pokemon is the best strategy
>have HMs
>using 1 pokemon is the best strategy
wow what a challenge to team building

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:28:33 No.50677728 Report

Quoted By: >>50677740

>>50677697
Your Quilava can learn Fly and Surf? Great!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:29:50 No.50677735 Report

Quoted By: >>50677750

>>50677697
That's a problem with level curve and EXP distribution. And you're literally agreeing with me. All HMs did was make an easy game even easier. Every generation something gets removed or tweaked to make the games slightly more easier and now they're just completely braindead.

Plus it made exploration easier. Now all the metroidvania aspects of the series are gone. There's no point in revisiting places because there will be nothing new to find. You never get the excitement of finding a rock smash boulder and returning later when you can finally see what it was hiding.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:30:20 No.50677740 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677728
I wish my IQ was low enough to consider "leave lv2 bird shitmon on your team to use fly" challenging gameplay

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:31:23 No.50677750 Report

Quoted By: >>50677762

>>50677735
>Now all the metroidvania aspects of the series are gone
wow I didn't know metroid required you to go to the save station to withdraw power ups out of the PC to use them

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:32:50 No.50677762 Report

Quoted By: >>50677772 >>50677780

>>50677750
Keep reading, dumbass. The point is removing HMs killed exploration.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:33:35 No.50677772 Report

Quoted By: >>50677782

>>50677762
Keep reading, dumbass. The point is that Metroid still has exploration without requiring a dumbfuck HM mechanic where you need to keep specific things on you to use them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:34:39 No.50677780 Report

Quoted By: >>50677787

>>50677762
>PLA has the most exploration in the series
>has no HMs
what did schizo-kun mean by this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:34:54 No.50677782 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677772
Then what's your excuse for Pokemon not having exploration anymore?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:36:00 No.50677787 Report

Quoted By: >>50677827

>>50677780
traveling != exploring

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ENegdxPXUAIkLMR.png, 518KiB, 554x554

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:39:47 No.50677821 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677230
>Find the fly master
>He makes you run an obstacle course on his CHAWIZAHD
>Once you complete it, gives you a harness and a flying license
>You can now freely fly on any pokemon you own which has the flying trait

The fact that it's so fucking easy is what makes it so annoying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:40:23 No.50677827 Report

Quoted By: >>50677853

>>50677787
define “exploring”, schizo-kun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:41:51 No.50677841 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677664
Waterfall was the best physical water move until Liquidation and even then it still is arguable because of flinch.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Pokemon-E-SkyPillar(Exterior).png, 9KiB, 448x368

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:43:23 No.50677853 Report

Quoted By: >>50677864 >>50677868

>>50677827
I see a tower. It interests me. I go inside and climb it navigating the bike puzzle. There is a legendary dragon. I catch it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:44:35 No.50677864 Report

Quoted By: >>50677865

>>50677853
So traveling?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:45:30 No.50677865 Report

Quoted By: >>50677891

>>50677864
Seeing something that is optional, navigating a challenge, and getting a reward. It's pretty basic stuff that hasn't been in the series since Gen 6.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:45:42 No.50677868 Report

Quoted By: >>50677907

>>50677853
what part of this requires HMs needing to exist, schizo-kun?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:48:22 No.50677891 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677865
>Seeing something that is optional, navigating a challenge, and getting a reward
Soooo PLA’s gameplay?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Orasw1228.png, 160KiB, 400x240

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:50:13 No.50677907 Report

Quoted By: >>50677924

>>50677868
That wasn't your question, but I can give another example.

It was fun finding dive spots in Hoenn, considering one was even important for the Regis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:50:17 No.50677908 Report

Quoted By: >>50677926

>>50677344
HMs don't add difficulty. They just add frustration. HMs should just be innate abilities that pokemon unlock throughout the game which don't take up move slots.
>>50677603
There can still be strength puzzles with no HMs that take up move slots.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:51:32 No.50677924 Report

Quoted By: >>50677944

>>50677907
what part of this requires HMs needing to exist, schizo-kun?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:51:48 No.50677926 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677908
I didn't even say HMs add difficulty but removing them definitely made the game ever so slightly easier, and all the small changes like forced EXP share keep making it easier and easier for no reason.

But I agree. HMs should've been tweaked instead of removed entirely. They promoted better map design and now all we get is empty fields and hallways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:53:36 No.50677944 Report

Quoted By: >>50677952 >>50677964 >>50678636

>>50677924
Oh I see. You're still not understanding.
In modern games you don't get anything cool like diving, strength puzzles, rock smash and cut hiding stuff until later in the game, etc. You just get hallways and empty fields.

No one's saying HMs need to exist, but they seemed to force GF into designing more exploration focused maps instead of boring empty fields.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:54:23 No.50677952 Report

Quoted By: >>50677960

>>50677944
BDSP was two games ago anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:55:12 No.50677960 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677952
Yes a remake of one of the last good generations, what's your point?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:55:41 No.50677964 Report

Quoted By: >>50677976

>>50677944
>but they seemed to force GF into designing more exploration focused maps
Then why does PLA have more exploration than any other game, schizo-kun?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 22:57:01 No.50677976 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677964
What's funny is not even PLA shills claim it has good exploration. They just praise the new catching and battle mechanics, it's obvious to everyone even PLA fans that exploration isn't a thing in PLA.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO field_moves.jpg, 101KiB, 900x519

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 23:16:17 No.50678146 Report

Quoted By:

HMs should be reworked from a small pool of lock-and-key abilities (suitable for a 1996 GB RPG) into a larger pool of field moves that have broad applicability.
They could be used for solving puzzles, traversal, or even accosting "bad guy" trainers to gain the upper hand before battle
Likewise, I imagine a livelier overworld where NPC and terrain interaction are more robust.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 23:20:44 No.50678186 Report

Quoted By: >>50678214

>it's another thread where retards suggest worse solutions to a problem that was already solved 6 games ago

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1654397176025.png, 369KiB, 500x506

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2022 23:24:01 No.50678214 Report

Quoted By:

>>50678186
Based Unovachad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jun 2022 00:10:18 No.50678529 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677697
What a creative nickname. It makes me think you're smart and original so now I agree with you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jun 2022 00:26:48 No.50678636 Report

Quoted By: >>50678962

>>50677944
Nothing about HMs necessitates puzzles or exploration beyond removing an obstacle to find a single item. GF wasn't forced into making puzzles or exploration focused maps, they did it because they wanted to. Even if HMs were to return in SV, there's no guarantee that the old map design would return under new GF

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jun 2022 00:33:22 No.50678679 Report

Quoted By: >>50678962 >>50680707

All the HM puzzles can be completely replaced by just letting the player be able to push rocks with their Pokemon you can easily replace still have puzzles in Pokemon without HMs because Puzzles are a level design thing, not an HM thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jun 2022 01:16:58 No.50678962 Report

Quoted By: >>50680331

>>50678679
>>50678636
The problem is GF never bothered to replace HM puzzles with non-HM puzzles. At the very least HMs forced them to actually integrate them into the game world. Now it's just apparent they got rid of them so they could stop doing puzzles altogether.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jun 2022 01:33:48 No.50679086 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677230
>Mount tutors that teachs you how to use YOUR pokemon to swim and fly across the region.
as sweet as that would be, no one's gonna blow a fuckton on money to make 200+ flying animations so you can use your favorite mon to travel between towns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jun 2022 04:55:46 No.50680284 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677230
Why couldn't they have made it so any pokemon that can fly/swim/cut etc can just do that? Better than taking up a move slot and you still need badges to use them anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jun 2022 05:04:05 No.50680331 Report

Quoted By:

>>50678962
yeah I loved puzzles like “click A in front of rock to remove rock” and “click A in front of cliff to climb up cliff”

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jun 2022 06:17:48 No.50680707 Report

Quoted By:

>>50678679
And just having the right pokemon to do that

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jun 2022 07:33:45 No.50681126 Report

Quoted By:

>>50677631
This. IMO OG Kanto and FRLG does it best.
>Flash only used in one area
>Surf is actually a good move
>Fly is ok given the movepools of those games
>Strength is an alright move and a decent substitute for Body Slam if you already used your tutor/tm
>Cut stops being needed after Erika
For FRLG:
>Waterfall only needed for one part of the post game
>Rock smash only needed for Mt Ember

You still used your Pokemon, but HMs were a lot less intrusive.

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