/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #50761246

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Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 17:57:24 No.50761246 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>50761252 >>50761253 >>50762173 >>50762212 >>50762454 >>50762462 >>50762996 >>50763026 >>50764883 >>50770611 >>50779143 >>50781406

I know this might upset some people but Zacian is better than M-Rayquaza. It had to be said.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 17:58:45 No.50761252 Report

Quoted By: >>50761264

>>50761246
wasn't both of em banned from ubers?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 17:59:00 No.50761253 Report

Quoted By: >>50762640 >>50762834 >>50768006

>>50761246
Steel resists Flying and Dragon
Fairy is also just immune to Dragon
Zacian is faster
It's pretty one-sided

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 18:00:35 No.50761264 Report

Quoted By: >>50761487

>>50761252
yeah the base form with a choice-band actually did more damage than the crowned form

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 18:37:44 No.50761472 Report

Quoted By:

What about the fanbase? Which pokémon has the healthiest one?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 18:40:45 No.50761487 Report

Quoted By: >>50762159

>>50761264
wait what lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 20:20:28 No.50762159 Report

Quoted By: >>50765080 >>50773439

>>50761487
it has 130 base attack power + intrepid sword, adding a choice band makes it do more damage than the crowned form and although it doesnt have the steel typing being a pure fairy doesnt give it weaknesess like fire and ground

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 20:22:08 No.50762173 Report

Quoted By:

>>50761246
The power of prophecy pastry

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO personalized-silver-fortune-cook (...).jpg, 54KiB, 523x483

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 20:27:54 No.50762212 Report

Quoted By: >>50762454

>>50761246
Biscuit significantly bolstered

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 21:00:20 No.50762454 Report

Quoted By:

>>50761246
>>50762212
>warhorse dog is better than aztec sky serpent
of course she is

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 21:01:28 No.50762462 Report

Quoted By: >>50762546

>>50761246
I also just watched the FSG video.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 21:15:40 No.50762546 Report

Quoted By:

>>50762462
I mean, that typing and ability honestly give it the upper hand vs Rayquaza

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 21:27:16 No.50762640 Report

Quoted By: >>50762987

>>50761253
>V-create you under a stash
pshh

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 21:55:27 No.50762834 Report

Quoted By: >>50762987

>>50761253
V create+extreme speed+free item slot allows more choices.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 21:56:55 No.50762843 Report

Quoted By:

Reminder, it's true attack stat is 255 and its true total base stat puts 805. Putting Mega Ray to shame. Mega Ray technically have the with choice band having the power of 270, but so does Hero Zacian banded with 292.5 attack. Both Zacian form is faster so it just kills Ray and Delta Stream won't do anything because it only filters flying weakness

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 21:59:41 No.50762862 Report

Quoted By: >>50762882 >>50770611

Reminder, it's true attack stat is 255 and its true total base stat is 805, putting Mega Ray to shame. Mega Ray technically have the choice band option which gives it 270, but so does Hero Zacian banded with 292.5 attack. Both Zacian form is faster so it just kills Ray and Delta Stream won't do anything because it only filters flying weakness

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1654014010686.png, 178KiB, 3485x433

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 22:01:39 No.50762882 Report

Quoted By: >>50762925

>>50762862
You cared enough to delete and rewrite your post but not to read the thread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 22:07:01 No.50762925 Report

Quoted By:

>>50762882
I had grammatical error, why not correct it. It takes 60 seconds per post/deletion

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 22:15:14 No.50762987 Report

Quoted By: >>50770089 >>50774994 >>50775053

>>50762640
>>50762834
Not talking in a 1v1 scenario. Zacian has probably the best typing in the game, good movepool, goos bulk and doesnt get hit by toxic or destroyed over time by stealth rocks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 22:16:13 No.50762996 Report

Quoted By:

>>50761246
No shit? Everyone knows Zacian is broken as shit.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO summon Fug.jpg, 55KiB, 960x540

Anonymous Sun 19 Jun 2022 22:19:42 No.50763026 Report

Quoted By:

>>50761246
But is it as based as Mega Fug?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 02:25:07 No.50764883 Report

Quoted By:

>>50761246
I don't think that's a controversial statement.
Zacian is the most busted Pokemon of all time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 02:50:42 No.50765080 Report

Quoted By: >>50766260

>>50762159
and there's only a 10 point speed difference between the two forms and 138 speed on base Zacian outspeeds nearly the entire ubers meta barring Calryx-Ahadow, Pheramosa and base Zamazenta. On top of the choice item 50/50 and you have threat that's a mess to play around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 06:16:51 No.50766260 Report

Quoted By: >>50766285

>>50765080
Yesh you're right

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 06:23:30 No.50766285 Report

Quoted By: >>50766302

>>50766260
What's worse is that on Zamazenta's side it LOSES 10 speed when it goes Crown. Thus the whole dynamic is entirely in Zacian's favour and Zamazenta gets no coverage to help it fight either Zacian form.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 06:28:34 No.50766302 Report

Quoted By: >>50766352

>>50766285
>b-but muh unbreakable sword meets unstoppable shield metaphor
kek.
My only regret for gen VIII is the cover legendaries aren't pokerides despite the clear warhorse motifs. A mistake they took notice of (and will hopefully correct) given the new ones for gen 9.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 06:43:13 No.50766352 Report

Quoted By: >>50766423 >>50766450 >>50766471 >>50769555

>>50766302
The biggest middle finger is that Zacian, the sword, is immune to both of Eternatus's STAB's.
Would that not be more fitting for the shield? And then Zacian's STAB's could've both been strong against Eternatus?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 07:07:59 No.50766423 Report

Quoted By:

>>50766352
Zacian is a girl and fairy type is feminine, fighting is macho-guy stuff prease understando.
Guess they really wanted to avert the "guy packs a long dong" stereotype, but ended up creating a worse one instead with "girls keep long dildos around".

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 07:13:56 No.50766450 Report

Quoted By: >>50766638

>>50766352
I feel like they could've given Eternatus a better movepool but it's alright. Eternatus is a top tier pokemon in ubers and AG. Pressure is usually overlooked but Eternatus is a menace with that ability

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 07:18:41 No.50766471 Report

Quoted By: >>50766518 >>50767597

>>50766352
Best defence is a good offence. Zamazenta a shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 07:29:40 No.50766518 Report

Quoted By: >>50766573

>>50766471
If only it could use Body Press, maybe they thoguh it would be too OP lol despite only BP getting the damage gain Dauntless Shield while Zacian's Intrepid Sword would buff all it's attacking abilites.

would a Body Press Zamazenta with BP,Iron Defense,LS, Reflect/Crunch be too OP in HO?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 07:47:00 No.50766573 Report

Quoted By: >>50766603 >>50766909 >>50769598

>>50766518
Best way to make Zamazenta as good as zacian would be:
HP 92
Atk 115
Def 170
Spatk 70
Spdef 158
Speed 115

Give it king shield, dauntless shield increases both defenses, iron defende, both screens, body press and give it a signature healing move that is a mix of recover and heals any status conditions, even destroying freezing status when pressing the move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 07:52:40 No.50766603 Report

Quoted By: >>50766619

>>50766573
>all those buffs
>a critical hit!
oops.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 07:58:02 No.50766619 Report

Quoted By: >>50766635 >>50770151

>>50766603
every pokemon getts fucked with critical hits the buffs would make zamazenta a good wall but then it would bring stall to ubers as well

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 08:00:18 No.50766628 Report

Quoted By: >>50766674

How the hell can some basic cover legend outpower a Mega third legendary that can use items?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 08:01:23 No.50766635 Report

Quoted By:

>>50766619
Snips doesn't

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 08:01:54 No.50766638 Report

Quoted By: >>50766652

>>50766450
Yeah the reason people forget about pressure is that it’s on everything, and almost nothing makes use of it beyond Deoxys-D. Eternatus is fat as fuck and can heal while absorbing status, it’s absolutely the sort of thing pressure is tailored for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 08:04:23 No.50766652 Report

Quoted By:

>>50766638
And dont forget that it also has cosmic power

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 08:12:51 No.50766674 Report

Quoted By: >>50766682

>>50766628
Zacian is much faster with broken attack. In a one-on-one battle (both starting from scratch) unless Mega Ray is carrying Choice Scarf or Focus Sash it has a very high chance of getting OHKOed before it can do anything.

+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 328-387 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 08:14:44 No.50766682 Report

Quoted By: >>50767288

>>50766674
And another one:

+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 468-552 (133.3 - 157.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 09:48:01 No.50766909 Report

Quoted By:

>>50766573
Give it huge power HA too

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 11:53:00 No.50767288 Report

Quoted By:

>>50766682
Mega rayquaza dynamaxes and wins

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 13:16:53 No.50767597 Report

Quoted By:

>>50766471
Then Zacian shouldn't need any resistances.
Just have it be so strong and fast that it KO's anyone else before they can move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 14:31:50 No.50768006 Report

Quoted By: >>50769524 >>50773117

>>50761253
They actually lose most matchups. Hell the AG set can't even eat a Dragon's Ascent without dying and they RESIST it.

Mega Ray with Focus Sash and Dragon Dance with V Create or even Dragon Ascent is essentially a hard counter to Zacian Crowned and Zacian.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 18:32:17 No.50769524 Report

Quoted By:

>>50768006
We're not talking in 1v1 scenario. Scarf on M-Fug is good but it would be a waste having a focus sash on it, specially in a meta filled with broken-ass pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 18:36:17 No.50769555 Report

Quoted By:

>>50766352
Yes, SWSH is a shitty game with shitty writing

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 18:38:31 No.50769568 Report

Quoted By: >>50769615

Gen 1 Mewtwo still the best Pokémon ever created. It was Gen 1 personified. It exploited all the weird quirks and design choices of Gen 1 making it impossible to defeat 1 on 1. The trick of besting a Mewtwo was paralysis and hope for the best.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 18:43:36 No.50769598 Report

Quoted By: >>50770075 >>50770092

>>50766573
>stat spread
looks good
>Give it king shield
eh isn't it meant to be Aegislash's signature move?
>dauntless shield increases both defenses
based
>iron defende
what? pretty sure it gets it
>both screens
you're fucking with me, how does it not get them
>body press
based
>give it a signature healing move that is a mix of recover and heals any status conditions, even destroying freezing status when pressing the move
sounds retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 18:46:47 No.50769615 Report

Quoted By: >>50769991

>>50769568
*ice beams*

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 19:39:41 No.50769991 Report

Quoted By:

>>50769615
Going on an Ice Beam War with Mewtwo is a dangerous game. Mewtwo is more bulky than any other Special tank/sweeper, much faster and hits harder. It can easily max its Special so going on an Ice Beam War hoping for freeze is bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 19:54:39 No.50770075 Report

Quoted By: >>50770080

>>50769598
About the king shield there were other signature moves that GF suddenly started giving to other pokemon, look at V-Create for example

I said that new signature move for Zamazenta because it is similar to Zarude's jungle healing

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 19:55:42 No.50770080 Report

Quoted By: >>50770084

>>50770075
I'm pretty V-Create is only on Rayquaza as an event gift though? and in Gen 5, that is

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 19:56:31 No.50770084 Report

Quoted By: >>50770090

>>50770080
Extreme speed was Arcanine's signature move as well, darkest lariat was Incineroar's move, spiky shield etc. The list goes on

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 19:57:29 No.50770089 Report

Quoted By: >>50770140

>>50762987
But Rayquaza is infinitely more flexible due to its free item slot, mixed attack stats and utility moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 19:57:37 No.50770090 Report

Quoted By:

>>50770084
yeah, fair for Darkest Lariat and Spiky Shield. I guess you could give it King's Shield, especially since Zacian gets Sacred Sword... right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 19:58:10 No.50770092 Report

Quoted By: >>50770118

>>50769598
It has both screens

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 20:01:52 No.50770118 Report

Quoted By:

>>50770092
ok, good. I wonder why the other anon said he needed ID and screens when he already has them

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 20:06:09 No.50770140 Report

Quoted By: >>50770277

>>50770089
what does that have to do with what I said?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 20:08:55 No.50770151 Report

Quoted By: >>50771455

>>50766619
Zama isn't a stall Mon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 20:27:05 No.50770277 Report

Quoted By: >>50770372

>>50770140
You’re argument doesn’t work because you’re still undermining Mega Rayquaza. Post your elo already.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 20:43:09 No.50770372 Report

Quoted By:

>>50770277
How am I undermining M-Ray by saying that Zacian's typing is better??? YOU post your elo

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 8C291B4A-8F09-4D62-9BF0-A5DC6D7C (...).png, 112KiB, 400x400

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 21:19:28 No.50770611 Report

Quoted By: >>50774366 >>50774973

>>50761246
>>50762862
Umm Zaciansisters…we got too cocky
+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 286-339 (72.5 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Jun 2022 23:24:08 No.50771455 Report

Quoted By: >>50773147

>>50770151
In OU it either formed obnoxious offense/regenerator cores since crowned ate knockoffs with no real harm, cleaned up late game with no opposition or just fucked over offense teams of various types while being an Offense mon in both forms due to stat bloat relative to OU. It's speed tier is mainly the problem a well as being harder to kill due to dual 115 defenses and it's ability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 03:24:52 No.50773117 Report

Quoted By: >>50774366 >>50774372

>>50768006
It's a good thing Pokemon aren't measured by how good they are in a 1v1, but how good they are in the general meta.
Quagsire beats Zacian in a 1v1, but I don't think anyone has the mental gymnastics to argue that Quagsire is more broken than Zacian.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 03:31:00 No.50773147 Report

Quoted By:

>>50771455
Zamazenta in OU was just a good mon overall.
It was 90% adequate in all regards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 04:15:44 No.50773439 Report

Quoted By: >>50774947

>>50762159
>adding a choice band makes it do more damage than the crowned form
It does? Choice band is +50%, while the +1 from intrepid sword is +50% as well. Am I missing something ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 08:02:16 No.50774366 Report

Quoted By: >>50774455 >>50774962

>>50770611
>>50773117
Every pokemon has it's own nemesis that beat it. Even Deoxys can beat M-Ray with a focus sash

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 08:03:55 No.50774372 Report

Quoted By: >>50777404

>>50773117
Also you're right look at Yveltal for example. That mon became literally the most used in AG and AG nat dex because it's the only good pokemon that can beat Calyrex shadow that terrorizes the metagame

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO file.png, 50KiB, 256x240

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 08:33:40 No.50774455 Report

Quoted By: >>50774460

>>50774366
I'm pretty sure this is zacian's biggest issue.
It steals the +1 atk boost and adds another on top of it, unless your opponent has a really good zacian counter, you can sweep their team with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 08:37:05 No.50774460 Report

Quoted By: >>50774464

>>50774455
focus sash marshadow

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 08:39:19 No.50774464 Report

Quoted By:

>>50774460
That would be a way to prevent a sweep yes, but doesn't stop you from killing their doggo

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 12:05:43 No.50774947 Report

Quoted By:

>>50773439
Base Zacian also has intrepid sword. Also:

If Zacian-C's base power equals 100, then after Intrepid Sword (IS), it'd be 150. If B-Zacian's base power is 100, then after factoring IS, it'd be 150; if you add a Choice Band to the equation then you have to add 50% of 150, not just 100. Meaning its final power would 225 and not just 200, as some think CB just gives you an extra +1 atk layer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 12:12:36 No.50774962 Report

Quoted By: >>50775938

>>50774366
M-Ray can beat that by running bulldoze and a sash itself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 12:16:25 No.50774973 Report

Quoted By:

>>50770611
4 SpA Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 430-508 (109.1 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 12:20:57 No.50774994 Report

Quoted By: >>50775910

>>50762987
M-Ray can run HDB now so it can actually be beter against hazards then Zacian.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 12:35:36 No.50775053 Report

Quoted By:

>>50762987
2 immunities too.
Free switch in on an outrage locked mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 15:33:26 No.50775910 Report

Quoted By:

>>50774994
it takes increased knock off damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 15:37:57 No.50775938 Report

Quoted By: >>50775962

>>50774962
Protect, tormet, psycho boost, e-speed

It's over

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 15:41:16 No.50775962 Report

Quoted By: >>50776023

>>50775938
If he ESpeeds on your torment you still lose

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 15:49:45 No.50776023 Report

Quoted By:

>>50775962
if he doesn't then you lose

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 19:15:36 No.50777404 Report

Quoted By:

>>50774372
And even Zamazenta has a niche now because it's such a good Yveltal counter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Jun 2022 23:10:20 No.50779143 Report

Quoted By:

>>50761246
>M-Rayquaza gets banned from Ubers
>Zacian gets banned from Ubers twice

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Jun 2022 05:07:27 No.50781406 Report

Quoted By: >>50781593

>>50761246
Can you imagine how busted would zamazenta be with body press? Why is zacian the only one allowed to be broken dubm devs

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Jun 2022 05:52:00 No.50781593 Report

Quoted By: >>50781699

>>50781406
it's only got 80bp, it'd be better than nothing, sure, but it wouldn't be broken.
It'd definitely be nice to have though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Jun 2022 06:15:12 No.50781699 Report

Quoted By: >>50782016

>>50781593
Zama's issues is more it's movepool and not really pushing it's typing that well. It doesn't have immediate power nor does it have a good boosting move or way to be bulky or durable. It really needs High Jump Kick or Thunderous Kick and a Ghost move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Jun 2022 07:40:27 No.50782016 Report

Quoted By:

>>50781699
Zama needs moves to support it's bulk, not attacking moves. 170 def, 148 spdef, dauntless shield raises both defenses and a recovering move would be good for it

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