/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #50802113

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 08:22:24 No.50802113 View View Reply Original Report

Why do people even use this absolute shitmon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 08:43:54 No.50802166 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
>fanfic meta
Rofl

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 08:44:16 No.50802169 Report

Quoted By: >>50806090

it's cool as fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 08:44:54 No.50802171 Report

Quoted By: >>50802206

>>50802113
>calling motherfucking Nidoking a shitmon
Mega cringe

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 08:52:07 No.50802206 Report

Quoted By: >>50802437 >>50802481 >>50802684 >>50804751 >>50806096 >>50806143

>>50802171
Just look at its stats dude
It's only decent stat is ATK and people don't even use that.
They just make special sets instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 08:52:38 No.50802209 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Because Smogon is gay

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 08:53:10 No.50802212 Report

Quoted By:

You lost to one, didn't you, OP?

Come here, there there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 08:54:26 No.50802214 Report

Quoted By:

Gen 1

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 09:01:10 No.50802229 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Because a 90 BP move boosted by Sheer Force and Life Orb effectively has 152 BP and no downsides. Not even counting STAB,
Nidoking not only has the highest SpA of any non-Uber Sheer Force user, but also has really good coverage, so it's hitting a lot of shit super-effectively with said moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 09:02:03 No.50802230 Report

Quoted By: >>50807746

>>50802113
>NU in Gen 1
>Jumps to OU in Gen 2
>Has been able to be consistently in UU for six gens now
KNEEL to your majesty

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 09:10:31 No.50802250 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Cope, Hoennbaby. All of your SFMAs have lost any relevance they might have had over the years, with them fated to rot in PU for the rest of their days

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 10:29:46 No.50802419 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
whatsa uu tier? Is this like that owo stuff?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 10:36:55 No.50802437 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802206
Look at its movepool nigga

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 10:45:38 No.50802462 Report

Quoted By: >>50803185

I don't even play compshit but let's have a look.
>resistances to fairy, rock, and fighting which are all very common attacking types
>immunity to electric to cuck volt switches and get easy switch-ins
>almost unrivalled diversity in its movepool, with sheer force to give most of those moves extra umph
>bulky enough to tank some things
>decent speed
He's the original jack of all trades
Meanwhile you jack off all gays

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 10:52:04 No.50802481 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802206
>Just look at its stats!

Dude, I know that most Pokemon fans have IQ in 80s but It's not that difficult. Unique typing with valuable resistances + wide array of moves + great ability boosting most of it's offensive options (and mitigating LO's damage lul).
That mediocre 85 Sp.ATK is good enough when you remember that all relevant moves for it are boosted by Sheer Force and Life Orb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 12:16:28 No.50802684 Report

Quoted By: >>50803059 >>50803535 >>50803596

>>50802206
>They just make special sets instead.
Name one (1) physical Ground-type move that both Nidoking and Nidoqueen can learn that have their power boosted by Sheer Force.

You cant.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 12:19:36 No.50802694 Report

Quoted By: >>50808446

>op is too retarded to read a pokemon ability

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 13:58:20 No.50803059 Report

Quoted By: >>50803169

>>50802684
Even with that in mind most of Nidoking's physical coverage is in the bad to okay range (Rock Slide, Iron Tail), doesn't work off Sheer Force (Superpower, Megahorn), or is just notably worse than its special counterpart (Elemental Punches).

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 136-161 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
vs
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 130-153 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And honestly Nidoking can still end up liking a mixed set with Superpower depending on the meta. But full physical even with a sheer force ground move would really just end up making it better at one thing at the expense of all the other things it does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:21:23 No.50803161 Report

Quoted By:

Typing, Movepool, and Ability are crazy
Nidoking's one flaw is its stats and if you buffed it just a little it would be Uber alongside Lando-I.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:23:29 No.50803169 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803059
> But full physical even with a sheer force ground move
It doesn't need a sheer force ground-move, it has Earthquake.
It needs Gunk Shot for the physical set as you'd only be clicking EQ against Ground-weak mons anway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:26:24 No.50803185 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802462
>bulky enough to tank some things
Nidoking is frail. I think you meant "bulky enough to tank some resisted hits".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:28:03 No.50803193 Report

Quoted By:

Nothing beats the satisfaction of unexpectedly OHKOing with this thing

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:29:42 No.50803203 Report

Quoted By:

>sheer force

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:34:31 No.50803219 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
post elo

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:36:04 No.50803230 Report

Quoted By:

*ahem*

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:37:29 No.50803240 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Learn what shitmon means

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:41:58 No.50803264 Report

Quoted By: >>50803311 >>50803377 >>50806100 >>50808464

Sheer Force is a real crapshoot of an ability, it either propels a Pokemon to high competitive viability or does absolutely nothing for them even if they have the moves to use it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:52:58 No.50803311 Report

Quoted By: >>50803324 >>50803387 >>50803679

>>50803264
Honestly the biggest Sheer Force letdown imo was Mega Camerupt. Poor fucker can't even hold a Life Orb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 14:55:47 No.50803324 Report

Quoted By: >>50803370 >>50805266

>>50803311
M Camerupt is purely a victim of megas being a half-assed system where only the absolute best get used due to 1 per team limit, sheer force heatwave in TR coming off 145 special attack is busted

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:04:12 No.50803370 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803324
I mean you don't have to play OU or just use the top meta team. Mega Camerupt still had competition in RU but it was perfectly usable. If you like it and want to use it build a team around it and you'll do fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:06:15 No.50803377 Report

Quoted By: >>50803768 >>50805615

>>50803264
Sheerforce should just always add power to moves and nullify effects. So physical would be better

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:08:12 No.50803387 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803311
Mega Camerupt wasn't that bad, it was a decent if gimmicky doubles mon, especially in gen 7 where it took advantage of the tapu terrain wars to abuse Sheer Force Nature Power for crazy coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:13:55 No.50803408 Report

Quoted By:

sheer force, life orb, amazing move pool
it's one of the best all-rounders

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:18:28 No.50803433 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
It's the best Pokemon to speedrun red/blue. That's what makes it famous
It's also a cute rabbit-lizard thing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:25:09 No.50803468 Report

Quoted By:

anything less than OU is a shitmon, sorry
>buff stats
>+Dragon Dance
>+Gunk Shot
there, now Nidoking is permanently OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:34:34 No.50803517 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Sheer Force negates the recoil from Life Orb effectively giving Nidoking a free 30% boost to all attacks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:37:37 No.50803535 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802684
Bulldoze

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:41:41 No.50803557 Report

Quoted By: >>50806104

>>50802113
This bait doesn’t work with a Gen 1 mon, they all get so many special snowflake treatment and pandering that there aren’t any Gen 1 absolute shitmons left.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:48:43 No.50803596 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802684
>I don't play the games

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 15:59:05 No.50803641 Report

Quoted By: >>50803679

>HP: 81
>Attack: 82 (-20)
>Defense: 87 (+10)
>Sp. Atk: 145 (+60)
>Sp. Def: 85 (+10)
>Speed: 105 (+20)

Mega Nido
Sheer Force

>252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 169-200 (38 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>252 SpA Sheer Force Mega-Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 187-222 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

I think it's alright and fair

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:08:27 No.50803679 Report

Quoted By: >>50803710 >>50803905 >>50803913

>>50803311
It's not even the problem.
It's got dogshit defensive typing with no speed, and unlike Primal Groudon, a water gun is going to murder it
and the biggest problem - the special attack boost isn't even enough compared to regular form with life orb and theoretic sheer force

>252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 246-290 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 237-280 (53.3 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

as>>50803641 said, it's supposed to be an improvement, not a fucking downgrade. Like laugh at Mega-Garchomp, but with sand force working, those Earthquakes are fucking retarded (it would've been a good mega if not for the stupid speed drop)

>252 Atk Sand Force Garchomp-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 222-262 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 183-216 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:12:48 No.50803710 Report

Quoted By: >>50803999 >>50804011 >>50804329 >>50806117

>>50803679
> would've been a good mega if not for the stupid speed drop
I think the speed drop was Game Freak prioritize Game Balance over Shillmon Privilege for once. M. Garchomp with 102 or more speed would be even more broken than Garchomp already is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:23:23 No.50803768 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803377
kind of doubt it, the earthquakes would be strong but you would lose all the good coverage. Also 102 attack isn't actually that much more than 85, since stats scale in line with each other with additions of IV's and EV's. Accounting for those, it's more like 147 to 130, when dropping tbolt for tpunch is a much more significant drop

also this is a massively obvious bait thread and everyone ate it up

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:23:35 No.50803771 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
STABS + ice beam and flamethrower blows everything away, it basically sees resurgences when special attackers get banned leading to a lack of Blissey usage on top off Slowking falling off, so Nidoking doesn’t have to bother running focus punch or thunderbolt. In the current meta Nidoking is a pokemon that supposedly 6-0s standard tourneyfag teams but manages to do jackshit because a lot of people still run Modest for some god forsaken reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:44:22 No.50803905 Report

Quoted By: >>50803913 >>50803916

>>50803679
Anon....
Base Camerupt doesn't have Sheer Force

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:45:28 No.50803913 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803679
>>50803905
kek retard alert

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:45:37 No.50803916 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803905
This is why I said theoretic sheer force, anon.
Even a theoretic Sheer force + Life orb is fucking better than the mega, this is the problem. It needed MORE power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:53:08 No.50803975 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Nidoking is really niche. When its counters are prevalent, it's clearly shit, but when they aren't there, it'll suddenly come back to kick ass. It's such an anomaly.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:54:13 No.50803985 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
>No mega
>No new forms
>Still based enough to give autists an aneurysm
Thats my boy

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:55:25 No.50803999 Report

Quoted By: >>50804011 >>50804064

>>50803710
>M. Garchomp with 102 or more speed would be even more broken than Garchomp already is.
Not really. Gen VI had nerfs to the BP of moves like Draco Meteor and Fire Blast, so Mega Chomp is actually weaker in Gen VI than the LO Chain Chomp set was in Gen V.
Mega Chomp is basically Kyurem-Black without an item slot. It's an awful Pokemon with badly optimized stats but could easily have been fixed with a focus on tanking and not mixed attacking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 16:56:44 No.50804011 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803710
>>50803999
>M. Garchomp with 102 or more speed would be even more broken than Garchomp already is.
Also in Gen VI, Garchomp keeps its pre-Mega speed the turn it Mega Evolves, so this was a moot point anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 17:03:32 No.50804064 Report

Quoted By: >>50804108

>>50803999
I think with 102 speed It would've been miles better. Basically, it's close to life orb damage as a mega without the suicide orb, and that's before even calculating sand force, which would've been easy with how splashable sandstorm (be it TTAR or Hippo) is

>252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 183-216 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>252 Atk Garchomp-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 171-202 (38.5 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

and with sand -

>252 Atk Sand Force Garchomp-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 222-262 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 17:11:57 No.50804108 Report

Quoted By:

>>50804064
>I think with 102 speed It would've been miles better.
It doesn't need the speed anymore because of Scale Shot. What it needs is higher defense so you can put some EVs into defense so it isn't as easily killed by a scarfer.
At 125 defense, Mega Chomp needs 216 EVs to have the same defense as regular Garchomp. No scarfer in the game can OHKO that Mega Chomp at +1 speed, not even Tapu Lele.
At that point you can give it literally any ability an it would still be great. The problem with Mega Chomp has always been the bad stat distribution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 17:43:35 No.50804280 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Because Nidokings look cool

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 17:53:42 No.50804329 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803710
In Smogon's national dex meta Mega Chomp can run SD+Scale Shot to boost it's speed but outside of wallbreaking/sweeping it's still worse. Regular Garchomp doesn't have the opportunity cost of a mega stone.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 19:07:54 No.50804751 Report

Quoted By: >>50804766 >>50805686 >>50805747

>>50802206
>WAOWAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! ITS STATS ARE SO HIGHHHHHH! ITT MUST BE AMAZZZZZING!!!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 19:10:10 No.50804766 Report

Quoted By: >>50805169

>>50804751
It is if you play the game like a normal person

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 19:10:38 No.50804770 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Luckily good typing, movepool, and ability can compensate for bad stats

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 20:10:40 No.50805169 Report

Quoted By:

>>50804766
lol no, I've used this in a playthrough and it's complete garbage
slow, and dies to any special attack ever

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 20:13:47 No.50805189 Report

Quoted By:

>both men playing as women

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 20:26:29 No.50805266 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803324
>megas being a half-assed system where only the absolute best get used due to 1 per team limit
Every single Pokemon is a half-assed system where only the absolute best get used due to 6 per team limit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 20:55:12 No.50805403 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Despite its 85 special attack, having a 60% boost to all of its attacks on top of STAB and type effectiveness makes it hit really hard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 21:06:12 No.50805452 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Shit how? He's got a great moveset, good abilities(or at least one of them is good), and a good typing, along with his stats not being bad just mediocre. Also he was even better in the earlier gens.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 21:29:29 No.50805615 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803377
>Landorus with Sheer Force Earthquake and Superpower

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 21:39:26 No.50805686 Report

Quoted By:

>>50804751
Anon, you're going to summon a srawman by posting an Ice-type Pokémon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 21:40:48 No.50805698 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
Sheer Force is a damn good ability and Nidoking has a good movepool to exploit it, that's why.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 21:48:01 No.50805747 Report

Quoted By:

>>50804751
defense is a very very shit stat

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 22:43:49 No.50806090 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802169
Based

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 22:45:58 No.50806096 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802206
Better special movepool. You can do damage calcs and see it consistently outperform whatever physical set it could do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 22:46:48 No.50806100 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803264
>Cries in Steelix

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 22:47:51 No.50806104 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803557
What the actual fuck is Seaking

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 22:51:35 No.50806117 Report

Quoted By: >>50808935

>>50803710
Eh.
For a lot of pokemon, you start getting diminishing returns once your break 100 speed. A hair over 100, like Garchomp has, is basically minmaxed.

130+ is the next major "holy shit, this thing is fast" benchmark... and I think Mega Garchomp would have actually achieved it if it just didn't waste any points in Special Attack and put that over into Speed instead. I forget what its Mega gains actually are.

Either way, it's not difficult to make something better than what we got.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 22:53:55 No.50806134 Report

Quoted By:

>another tourney where jp uses g darm
*yawns*

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Jun 2022 22:56:35 No.50806143 Report

Quoted By: >>50807735

>>50802206
>Earthquake is a Special Attack
lol
lmao even

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 03:35:38 No.50807735 Report

Quoted By: >>50807786

>>50806143
Nobody ever uses EQ on Nidoking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 03:38:50 No.50807746 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802230
>nidoking stays uu while starmie falls from ou to nu in two gens

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 03:51:39 No.50807786 Report

Quoted By: >>50809007

>>50807735
People running mixed Nido (the only valid set, btw) are running EQ.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 06:34:56 No.50808446 Report

Quoted By: >>50808455 >>50808467

>>50802694
To be fair, one of the biggest benefits of Sheer Force (LO recoil immunity) isn't even listed in-game and I'm pretty sure it's a glitch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 06:37:14 No.50808455 Report

Quoted By:

>>50808446
>glitch
>has been around for over a decade

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 06:39:39 No.50808464 Report

Quoted By:

>>50803264
It's also necessary to have the stats for it.
The ability overwhelmingly favors special attackers despite mostly being given to physical attackers.
Nidoking's mediocre, non-minmaxed stats are a plus in this case.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 06:41:09 No.50808467 Report

Quoted By:

>>50808446
It's not a glitch when the mechanic has existed for four generations now.

Anyway, Nidoking has always been good in-game due to being able to evolve early, good stats and a massive movepool. Competitively, it's OU in a few metagames and viable in OU in almost all of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 08:48:20 No.50808820 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
very good typing and sheer force + amazing offensive movepool

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 09:40:13 No.50808935 Report

Quoted By:

>>50806117
>you start getting diminishing returns once your break 100 speed
Only for unpopular Pokémon.

Look at Purugly for example. It has 112 Speed and only 82 Attack. If it were to have its Attack stat increased, that would actually make it worse, just like how Rock and Ice being buffed would actually end up makinh Aurorus worse than before.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 10:06:56 No.50809007 Report

Quoted By: >>50809020

>>50807786
Earth Power hits harder in every scenario.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 10:11:49 No.50809020 Report

Quoted By:

>>50809007
Unless you have special wall in front of you.
Reason why you run mixed set is not because it hits harder out of context but because it can hit good enough from both offensive stats and punish players running on defensive schematics. If you run pure special attacker your opponent will just put their special wall in front of you and force you to switch... unless you surprise them with physical attack!

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO file.png, 195KiB, 300x401

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2022 10:41:41 No.50809117 Report

Quoted By:

>>50802113
competitive pokemon sucks

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