/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #51246037

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Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 15:48:55 No.51246037 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By:

>Rock is a bad typ-

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:21:00 No.51246264 Report

Quoted By: >>51246429

>Ice is a bad typ-

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:23:18 No.51246284 Report

Quoted By: >>51246299 >>51246306

Good Pokemon, bad type. If Rock and Ice aren't bad types, what types are bad?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:24:52 No.51246299 Report

Quoted By: >>51246316

>>51246284
There worst types coverage wise are bug, poison and ice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:25:25 No.51246306 Report

Quoted By: >>51246366

>>51246284
bug is the only type that I'd argue is inherently bad on its own

it's just grass with less utility

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:26:27 No.51246316 Report

Quoted By: >>51246336 >>51246431 >>51249336

>>51246299
Bug's a good type due to U-turn. U-turn is like Stealth Rock in that it singlehandedly nuked the usage of Pokemon that were weak to it. Celebi fell off HARD after U-turn was added.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:28:13 No.51246336 Report

Quoted By: >>51246383

>>51246316
>Bug's a good type due to U-turn
Then ice and rock are better types due to literally every STAB move they get on top of sandstorm and hail.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:29:37 No.51246351 Report

Quoted By:

>Bug is a bad typ-

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:31:19 No.51246366 Report

Quoted By: >>51246417

>>51246306
Resisting Ground and Fighting, the two most powerful offensive types in the game, is a huge defensive boon. Bug can accentuate a lot of types defensively while Grass is usually a negative to any type it's added to. Flying, Rock, and Fire weaknesses suck, but a collective 10 types are weak to things that Bug resists, while only 7 are weak to types it's weak to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:33:43 No.51246383 Report

Quoted By: >>51246417 >>51246429 >>51246525

>>51246336
Ice and Rock have notoriously shit move pools. Rock moves have stupid accuracy. Stone Edge only has 100 base power while having 80 accuracy, while EQ is a perfect 100/100, Close Combat is 120/100, Flare Blitz is 120/100, Poltergeist is 110/90, and on and on.

Also, Hail and Sandstorm don't buff the power of Rock and Ice type moves. The only benefit either receives is not taking chip damage, and Rock gets a 50% SpD boost which doesn't really help it all that much considering its most common weaknesses are physical (Fighting and Ground)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:36:12 No.51246400 Report

Quoted By: >>51246438 >>51246448 >>51246451 >>51246467 >>51246479 >>51249312 >>51249419

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:38:36 No.51246417 Report

Quoted By: >>51246558

>>51246366
>Resisting Ground and Fighting, the two most powerful offensive types in the game, is a huge defensive boon.
Not when its weaknesses are extremely bad and its offensive utility is one of the worst in the game.

>Bug can accentuate a lot of types defensively while Grass is usually a negative to any type it's added to
Resisting Water/Ground/Electric on top of having immunity to every relevant sleep move >>> resisting Ground/Fighting
Add the fact that Grass types also often get Terrain and Chlorophyll boosts on top of that and it's definitively better than Bug.

>>51246383
>Ice and Rock have notoriously shit move pools
No they don't. Ice and Rock STAB is extremely good. Bug STAB is probably among the worst in the game.

>Rock moves have stupid accuracy
More than worth it when Rock Slide hits both opponents and can flinch and Stone Edge has a boosted crit rate.

>Also, Hail and Sandstorm don't buff the power of Rock and Ice type moves
They don't need to to be extremely useful.

>gets a 50% SpD boost which doesn't really help it all that much
play the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:40:11 No.51246429 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246383
The things that save Ice and Rock are literally their movepool distribution and offensive matchups. They're horrific defensive typings but insane for attack, which lets min maxed bullshit like >>51246264 run rampant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:40:17 No.51246431 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246316
Bug pokemon, not bug moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:40:47 No.51246438 Report

Quoted By: >>51246444 >>51246455

>>51246400
this tier list is fucking horrible, holy shit

you can tell it was made by a dumbfuck who doesn't play the game and just looked at "muh weaknesses". Grass is literally one of the most commonly used types in the meta.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:41:40 No.51246444 Report

Quoted By: >>51246462

>>51246438
Retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:42:14 No.51246448 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246400
Is this on paper viability?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:42:31 No.51246451 Report

Quoted By: >>51246511

>>51246400
>dragon that low
>electric that low
>normal that low
>grass that low
>ice that low
>rock that low
>bug that high
lol, lmao even

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:42:46 No.51246455 Report

Quoted By: >>51246462

>>51246438
There are 3 Grass types in OU, only 1 of which is not also part Steel.

>inb4 anon says VGC
lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:43:37 No.51246462 Report

Quoted By: >>51246470 >>51246571

>>51246444
not an argument

>>51246455
>OU
I'm talking about the actual game, dumbassio.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:43:49 No.51246467 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246400
>Psychic this high
>Bug not in the lowest tier
>Poison not in the lowest tier
>Ground this low
>Electric this fucking low
>Ice and Rock in the lowest tier
geez your tierlist is ass

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:44:31 No.51246470 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246462
Irrelevant

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:45:51 No.51246479 Report

Quoted By: >>51246488 >>51246495 >>51246602 >>51246603

>>51246400
If you're going to rank them, at least do it objectively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:47:04 No.51246488 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246479
We need an overall

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:47:35 No.51246495 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246479
Fairy is the best then

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:50:08 No.51246511 Report

Quoted By: >>51246580

>>51246451
>Dragon that low
It only hits Dragon for SE and has trouble with the 2 dominant meta types. Dragons almost never see usage in VGC because of all the Fairies running around. Seriously, the highest ranked Dragon in VGC is Palkia, which is the 21st most used Pokemon, and the only other Dragon type with more than 1.6% usage in VGC is Eternatus. In singles, the type is also a hindrance. Weakness to Fairy and Ice hold it back a lot, and most Dragons are good in spite of their typing. There are only 3 Dragons in OU - Garchomp, Dragapult, and Dragonite - and all the Fairy types running around make it hard for them to see much viability in lower tiers.

>Electric that low
Not having any physical non-signature moves sucks. Why the fuck is Wild Charge 90 base power when Flare Blitz and Double Edge are 120? Also, Ground types are omnipresent in every tier. Tbolt's and Thunder's nerfs in Gen 6 really hurt the type's viability, and Electric types often have a difficult type blowing past neutral targets. It's why Pokemon like Xurkitree, with their insane damage output, are considered mediocre.
>Normal that low
It was a lot better in the past. The rise of Fighting, Ghost, and Steel types hurt Normal's viability a lot.
>Grass that low
It's shit, anon
>Ice that low
It's shit, anon
>Rock that low
It's shit, anon
>Bug that high
It's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:52:10 No.51246525 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246383
>Ice and Rock have notoriously shit move pools
I get irritated over the fact that Aurorus didn't get Aurora Veil in gen 7 and the fact that Tyrantrum still doesn't have any STAB biting moves. And no I'm not fucking using Alolan Shit/shilltales or Sóychomp so fuck you Game Freak and stick your bullshit up your ass until your colon is destroyed. But I guess that Fisheous Rend is balanced because it's a Water-type move and Water is popular and that Aurorus having Power Gem would be OP because unpopular Pokémon having anything going for them would be game-breaking, unlike the tryhard ungabunga bullshit that is Zacian. Also why can't Lycanroc learn Earthquake? That shit's in pretty much every movepool for Rock-type Pokémon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:55:14 No.51246558 Report

Quoted By: >>51246589

>>51246417
>Not when its weaknesses are extremely bad and its offensive utility is one of the worst in the game.
Its weaknesses really aren't that bad. It resists stronger and more common types than it is weak to. Also, it has U-turn, and STAB U-turn is really good. It gets resisted by a lot, which is a shame, but it still has good utility offensively. STAB U-turn is the primary reason Cinderace got banned.

>Resisting Water/Ground/Electric on top of having immunity to every relevant sleep move >>> resisting Ground/Fighting
lolno. Sleep moves are far less common in singles because of sleep clause (and Breloom being snapped out of existence), and Ground and Fighting are the two most common offensive types in both VGC and Singles. Resisting Rillaboom also does not hurt, but Grass has that too.

>Grass types get terrain and chlorophyll
Sunny Day makes Grass types' Fire weakness into a lethality. Attacks they'd live with 30 - 40% HP remaining are now fatal, which is why Sunny Day/Chlorophyll is widely considered the worst weather combination in the game. Hail, Sandstorm, and Rain are all seen in OU, while Sunny Day is never seen. Terrain is also only set by 2 Pokemon, and only one of which is even good (Rillaboom). That last one is also never paired with other Grass types because the shared weaknesses are too much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:56:15 No.51246571 Report

Quoted By: >>51246592 >>51249264

>>51246462
OU is the actual game. Doubles is a side mode from Gen 3. Singles is the real game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:57:02 No.51246580 Report

Quoted By: >>51246647 >>51246713

>>51246511
>It only hits Dragon for SE
So? The reason it's good is that it hits almost the entire game at least neutrally. Play the game.

>Not having any physical non-signature moves sucks
Oh, so it sucks when you ignore signature moves and all the other utility it has? Play the game.

>It's shit, anon
Having an advantage against Tapu Fini, Urshifu, and Kyogre is shit?
Having Grassy Terrain boosts is shit?
Having Leech Seed and Spore immunity is shit?
Being able to use Leech Seed and Spore is shit?
Doubling speed in sun is shit?
Setting up hail is shit?
Doubling speed in hail is shit?
Setting up Aurora Veil is shit?
Having boosted defense in sand is shit?
Having one of the best offensive STABs in the game is shit?
play
the
game
you
fucking
retard

>It's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
It's literally Grass but worse. Play the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:57:43 No.51246589 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246558
>Sunny Day/Chlorophyll is widely considered the worst weather combination in the game
Unless it's Venushit. Also Meganium bad but here's why that's a good thing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:58:03 No.51246592 Report

Quoted By: >>51246610

>>51246571
>OU is the actual game
Please show me where the "OU" option is

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:59:19 No.51246602 Report

Quoted By: >>51246639

>>51246479
That's not even really objective, either, because it says nothing about the type matchups. Steel more balanced of a defensive typing than Fairy because it's weak to 3 of the best offensive types in the game while Fairy effectively has no weaknesses because Steel and Poison are still shit offensively. Fire is considered a non-defensive type despite having the 2nd most resistances in the game because it's weak to super common moves like EQ, Scald, and Stealth Rocks. Rock is shit defensively not only because of it having a lot of weaknesses, but also because the types it resists are less common.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 16:59:21 No.51246603 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246479
Grasssisters...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 17:00:34 No.51246610 Report

Quoted By: >>51246620

>>51246592
>Actually buying, let alone playing, the newer games
???

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 17:01:23 No.51246620 Report

Quoted By: >>51246656

>>51246610
Just sick to ROM hacks that don't succumb to Game Freak's bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 17:03:57 No.51246639 Report

Quoted By: >>51246673

>>51246602
If a mathematical average type effectiveness isn't objective enough for you, what do you propose instead?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 17:05:04 No.51246647 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246580
>So? The reason it's good is that it hits almost the entire game at least neutrally. Play the game.
You can still easily eat neutral Dragon attacks. Blissey munches on Draco Meteors for days, and Hippowdon can tank even a +2 Outrage from Garchomp. Super Effective attacks are important for offensive Pokemon. Dragon wasn't even a top tier type during its heyday in Gen 5, and it definitely did not deserve to be crippled.

>Oh, so it sucks when you ignore signature moves and all the other utility it has? Play the game.
Signature moves don't count for the wider type because they're signature. All those Physical and Mixed Electric types aren't getting access to Volt Tackle or Plasma Fists. Pikachu is a shitmon that no one ever uses unless they're running a meme team, and Zeraora is good and common in singles, but it's the sole good physical Electric type.

You need to play the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 17:06:04 No.51246656 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246620
For me it's Emerald, Platinum, HGSS, B/W, and B2/W2 playthroughs and Pokemon Showdown.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 17:08:31 No.51246673 Report

Quoted By: >>51246730

>>51246639
Mathematics and statistics are only as good as how you interpret them. If you just use data with no analysis, your "objective" measurements can easily get trapped by survivorship bias, like pic related, or other biases.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 17:12:47 No.51246713 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246580
>Having an advantage against Tapu Fini, Urshifu, and Kyogre is shit?
Kyogre is banned in the only meta that matters. Urshifu-R only sees usage when Urshifu-S is banned (and also Grass types still eat shit from Close Combat because they don't resist it). Beating Fini is good

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 17:14:58 No.51246730 Report

Quoted By: >>51246768

>>51246673
So you have no alternative suggestion?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 17:21:47 No.51246768 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246730
I already posted my alternative suggestion

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 19:43:15 No.51247918 Report

Quoted By: >>51248132

There's a reason Gr(ass) is spelt that way. There is a reason Rock is one letter off from Cock. There is a reason Ice is one letter off from Nice.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 19:47:30 No.51247971 Report

Quoted By:

>Steel is a good typ-

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 20:10:52 No.51248132 Report

Quoted By:

>>51247918
You don't understand.

Meganium is SUPPOSED TO BE SHIT.
Aurorus not being able to learn Power Gem and not having Aurora Veil in gen 7 is A GOOD THING.
Ice only resisting itself is A GOOD THING FOR SLOW POKÉMON TO HAVE.

All this is because I FUCKING SAID SO ABD YOU YOU SHOULD PLAY THE FUCKING GAME.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 23:02:06 No.51249264 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246571
That would be AG.
AG is the true format for the best trainers. Everything allowed, the strongest win, no kids glove. actual all out battle as intended to decide who is the true champion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 23:08:12 No.51249312 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246400
I'm guessing this is based on what he thinks is the coolest, not the best

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 23:10:10 No.51249336 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246316
That's not true, Celebi was OU in that gen and the gen after and UU for the next two.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 23:12:20 No.51249346 Report

Quoted By: >>51249384

Grass is weird, it's a bad type by itself, but it has a few good Pokemon, and the only reason said Pokemon aren't bullshit broken is because they're Grass type.
Grass/Steel and Grass/Water are really good typings but that's due to fortunate synergy more than it's due to Grass being a good type.

So Grass straddles the line between being really shit and kinda good and there are plenty of examples to say it fits into either category. I think that means its balanced but that doesn't feel correct either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 23:19:07 No.51249384 Report

Quoted By: >>51249438 >>51249449

>>51249346
>it's a bad type by itself
no it isn't

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 23:25:26 No.51249419 Report

Quoted By:

>>51246400
Psychic is easily D tier. It's shit typing now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 23:27:45 No.51249438 Report

Quoted By:

>>51249384
But it is, the best Grass Pokemon require overtuned abilities/moves that would make nearly any type strong.
Imagine Grassy Surge+Grassy Glide on a Rock, Fighting or Dark Pokemon.
Imagine Contrary Leaf Storm on an Ice, Electric or Flying Pokemon.
Imagine Tangrowth's stats+abilties on a Normal or Steel Pokemon.

Like I said, the only thing keeping the aforementioned sets in check is the fact that they're Grass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Aug 2022 23:28:44 No.51249449 Report

Quoted By:

>>51249384
Yes it is

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