/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #51774160

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Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:00:51 No.51774160 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>51774197 >>51774277 >>51774280 >>51774464 >>51774560 >>51776379 >>51777396 >>51777415 >>51777929 >>51779381 >>51780967 >>51781205

Will Smogon ban it?
If so, how much will /vp/ bitch about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:06:33 No.51774197 Report

Quoted By: >>51774548 >>51774605 >>51777657 >>51781664

>>51774160
>Will Smogon ban it?
Yes, because "mindgames are uncompetitive and only add more randomness and coinflips"
>If so, how much will /vp/ bitch about it.
A lot

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:10:27 No.51774230 Report

Quoted By:

Now that we know tera doesn't remove the original STABs, yes, probably.
Once enough Pokemon start making 6-0 sweeps at the top of the ladder they'll just ban the thing wholesale.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:11:30 No.51774234 Report

Quoted By: >>51774258 >>51774325 >>51774580 >>51777391 >>51777526

Smogon will ban it because the alternative is banning a shit load of strong offense Pokemon. /vp/ will cry and say it's because of a stall agenda.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:14:26 No.51774258 Report

Quoted By: >>51774266

>>51774234
You have to be an actual congenitally malformed drooling retard to not see the pro-stall shit Smogdrones support.
Regardless, stall bans should be happening if they actually have a fuck about anti-competitive play. Out-waiting your opponent should not be a wincon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:15:15 No.51774266 Report

Quoted By: >>51774286

>>51774258
stall isnt even that good currently and hasnt been for a large part of swsh. you have to be sub 1500 to not realize this

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:16:42 No.51774277 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774160
Smogon bans everything so yes
But only complete autists give a shit about that dumb shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:17:22 No.51774280 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774160
Honestly? If dual-types didn't get the adaptability boost when terastaling into one of their owntypes, there would be SLIM chance for them to actually think for once and not ban it.
But know that we know they keep the other STAB? Nah, not a chance. They'll scream about it every 2 seconds. It will, be banned.
And given that /vp/ already bitches about it (rightfuuuuully), well it'll only intensify as time goes on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:17:52 No.51774285 Report

Quoted By: >>51774289

Instead of ban it, they should just make a no gimmick format

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:18:05 No.51774286 Report

Quoted By: >>51774300

>>51774266
sub 1500 because I quit during SM when admins were basedfacing at their brand new toy Toxapex. STFU

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:18:11 No.51774289 Report

Quoted By: >>51774326

>>51774285
so swsh?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:19:32 No.51774300 Report

Quoted By: >>51774376 >>51781868

>>51774286
it takes like 1 afternoon to get to the 1700s dude just knock it out and shut people calling you a retard up, unless you're actually a moron who isn't in STEM

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:23:17 No.51774325 Report

Quoted By: >>51774363 >>51774444 >>51776755

>>51774234
Honestly only Pokemon I can see being banned with this so far are Dragapult and Ash Greninja, maybe Ursaluna and Basculegion depending on their movepools too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:23:19 No.51774326 Report

Quoted By: >>51774374 >>51774449

>>51774289
No, an alternate one. Also goes for Nat Dex btw.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:27:03 No.51774363 Report

Quoted By: >>51774393

>>51774325
Regieleki seems kind of cancer to deal with, Tapu Lele could be a problem, Volcarona becomes even more of a guessing game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:28:06 No.51774374 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774326
i don't get what you're asking for, do you want their main tier to be full gimmicks? because it'll just die in favor of the no gimmicks one

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:28:15 No.51774376 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774300
Read, tard. I’m not wasting time playing showdown again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:30:04 No.51774393 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774363
>Volcarona becomes even more of a guessing game.
not really, just guess "I'm going to lose"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:31:08 No.51774404 Report

Quoted By:

/vp/ is an interesting place because I legitimately believe this is the community that is the worst at Pokemon out of any of them, which makes it worth and somewhat funny to observe as a spectator. Even GameFAQs, ancient forums like Serebii etc are better at the game than this place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:36:01 No.51774444 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774325
You're not thinking outside the box enough
anything that's a dual-type Ice-somethinggood or Rock-somethinggood gets viable
Ice/Flying, Rock/Ground, Ice/Water, Rock/Fire come to mind
'cause you basically get mono-type defensively, but dual-type offensively WITH the tera boost on the tera type moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:36:35 No.51774449 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774326
I'd rather see an alternate format where Terastal removes original STABs to see how much that makes a difference.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:38:30 No.51774464 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774160
>Will
yes.
Also it looks retarded in game

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:46:21 No.51774548 Report

Quoted By: >>51774616

>>51774197
>"mindgames are uncompetitive and only add more randomness and coinflips"
Aren't mindgames literally 75% of competitive play?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:48:20 No.51774560 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774160
If you hate Smogon so much why not play another format? Like, Jesus, since gen 6 I've played VGC exclusively. Do you know why? Because I disliked the direction Smogon was going. You know what I didn't do? Shit up /vp/ round the clock complaining about Smogon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:51:30 No.51774580 Report

Quoted By: >>51774616

>>51774234
/vp/ is full of troglodytes who think shit like the Arena Trap ban is pro-stall, so I wouldn't be surprised

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:54:00 No.51774605 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774197
Fpbp

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:55:50 No.51774616 Report

Quoted By: >>51774640

>>51774580
welp, if Dugtrio's Arena Trap wasn't banned, we probably would have a less annoying time checking Pex, is all this board is probably saying
>>51774548
75? Certainly not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:57:49 No.51774640 Report

Quoted By: >>51774652

>>51774616
Heatran beats Pex 1v1 and is one of the best mons in the tier even outside that. Arena Trap was primarily used BY stall teams.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 18:59:53 No.51774652 Report

Quoted By: >>51774707

>>51774640
I mean yeah full trapping is deranged, I wasn't advocating in favor of it either lol
'just tryna guess why we were seething about it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 19:04:31 No.51774695 Report

Quoted By: >>51774854

toxapex is good but some of you need to actually play ou some and realize it's not anywhere near as good as some of you believe it is anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 19:05:45 No.51774707 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774652
Genuinely, it's because /vp/ tends to know very little about the things they complain about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 19:07:36 No.51774720 Report

Quoted By:

It depends: is it a good stalling tool? If so, they won't touch it. If it isn't, then they're taking the banhammer to it the very second the games are out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 19:23:25 No.51774854 Report

Quoted By: >>51774863 >>51774908

>>51774695
I'm still praying they nerf Regenerator this gen, 33% for switching out is silly, especially with mons that run Boots. Make it like 20% and it's golden.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 19:25:14 No.51774863 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774854
i hope regenerator gets nerfed and i hope steel and fairy both take a hit too. i also hope some offensive shit gets toned down though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 19:25:20 No.51774865 Report

Quoted By:

I just want mega evolution back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 19:30:54 No.51774908 Report

Quoted By: >>51774920

>>51774854
They should've never introduced it to begin with...
You just don't fuck that mindlessly with switching, what were they thinking
If Regenerator was situational, like Natural Cure, it would be fine, but it's not
My personal fix to it is:
>only activates under 50% HP

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 19:32:39 No.51774920 Report

Quoted By: >>51776561

>>51774908
its not that relevant in vgc so gamefreak doesnt care

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 19:34:16 No.51774929 Report

Quoted By:

Smogon will ban it because it reminds them that their idea of what Pokemon battling should be is further and further divorced from the actual games.

/vp/ will bitch about them banning it because since when has /vp/ not bitched about anything given the chance?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO glacialbusted.png, 5KiB, 724x32

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 19:34:53 No.51774936 Report

Quoted By:

>GF cares about VG- ACK!

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO l.jpg, 93KiB, 1280x720

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 23:15:49 No.51776379 Report

Quoted By: >>51776390 >>51776452 >>51780954 >>51781001

>>51774160
If Smogon bans Terastal, Gen 9 will basically be Gen 8...again. Toxapex is already confirmed, and whatever new offensive Pokemon debut will be suspected, then banned. In addition, GameFreak removed Hidden Power, Pursuit, Smeargle, and like 400 fun to use Pokemon from the Dex just because they aren't the usual normiebait: Lucario, Starter Pokemon, Charizard, Garchomp, Heatran, Landorus, etc.

I actually did regret lobbying for the Dynamax ban afterwards. Gen 8 (Smogon) is easily the most boring Gen ever. And if they ban Terastal, Gen 9 will be boring too. So I hope they leave it in. Broken checking broken is better than another Generation of Nyquil-ass OU with PexClef, TapuAIDS and fucking Landorus, OU has been the same dance since Gen 7

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 23:18:11 No.51776390 Report

Quoted By: >>51776417

>>51776379
I mean lobbying for Dynamax ban was fine, you couldn't guess it would make it the 2nd worst comp gen
Nat Dex is the only real format anyway, who cares~

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 23:21:50 No.51776417 Report

Quoted By: >>51776452

>>51776390
You shouldn’t be allowed to suspect test game mechanics in the first place

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 23:26:45 No.51776452 Report

Quoted By: >>51776495

>>51776379
Hindsight is 20/20. I still believe Dynamax was bullshit and deserved a ban, but Gen 8 was designed around it so a lot of the new competition was sorely lacking or ended up just being excessively strong.

However, I think Terestral is a fine mechanic, in spite of the recent news that it might give you access to all 3 of your STABs. Terablast will probably be strong, but I think the mechanic is tame enough that it'll be fairly obvious which Pokemon can abuse it to the absolute limits.

>>51776417
Dynamax demanded an answer. Much like sleep spam, it afforded the user so many opportunities to run away with a game. But sleep spam is limited to certain users, and you have to build them for that strategy. Dynamax was a "Get Out of Jail Free Card, but also take +2 Speed and +1 to your offensive stat of choice". The best answer to Dynamax was defensive Dynamax, which lead to drawn out chip battles until somebody messed up and over-committed or misread of switch and got stuck with a Pokemon that couldn't survive the Dynamax clash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 23:32:53 No.51776495 Report

Quoted By: >>51776510

>>51776452
>Dynamax demanded an answer

…yeah? That is in fact the point of the mechanic

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 23:35:50 No.51776510 Report

Quoted By: >>51776538

>>51776495
Not an in-game answer, an actual evaluation. The in-game answers were too few and mostly involved having a specific counter Pokemon ready for whichever threat your opponent chooses to Dynamax in that battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 23:41:14 No.51776538 Report

Quoted By: >>51776625

>>51776510
Not sure what you mean. Dynamax can never be a “get out of jail free” card, and even if it was you both have it. If somebody Dynamaxes and beats you out of an “unwinnable” situation you never had them in jail in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 23:45:33 No.51776561 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774920
Hazards aren't relevant in VGC at all but they've buffed Defog and Rapid Spin and introduced Boots to help mitigate them. They do still attempt to balance for singles sometimes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 23:55:53 No.51776625 Report

Quoted By: >>51776651 >>51781041

>>51776538
>Dynamax can never be a “get out of jail free” card, and even if it was you both have it. If somebody Dynamaxes and beats you out of an “unwinnable” situation you never had them in jail in the first place.
Yeah, that's the point. Dynamax meta turns every game into a win or loss at team preview. If you don't happen to have the very specific counter to their Dynamax sweeper, you lose and there's no outplaying possible because the effects of Dynamaxing are too strong. There's a reason Ditto was topping the usage charts during the brief window Dynamax was legal because it was literally the only reliable answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Oct 2022 23:59:21 No.51776651 Report

Quoted By: >>51776741

>>51776625
>There's a reason Ditto was topping the usage charts during the brief window Dynamax was legal because it was literally the only reliable answer.

No, it was topping because the game had been out for two fucking weeks and that’s an easy answer to a developing meta based around boosts. Stop pretending you had some fully developed understanding of the meta, even if Gen 8 meta was hyper offense boost focused that’s better than playing Gen 7 with less stuff and no concern that your game is completely divorced from cart play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:13:42 No.51776741 Report

Quoted By: >>51776765

>>51776651
>No, it was topping because the game had been out for two fucking weeks and that’s an easy answer to a developing meta based around boosts.
Ditto is still #8 in usage with 27% in high-rank AG, nearly two years after the games released. And that's in a meta where it has to compete with Ubers and its shitty HP becomes a lot more of a problem. For comparison it's not even top 20 in high rank gen 7 AG. And that's not because of Zacian either - Ditto has the same usage rate in Nat Dex AG despite Zacian being much less common there.
>even if Gen 8 meta was hyper offense boost focused that’s better than playing Gen 7 with less stuff
No it isn't.
>and no concern that your game is completely divorced from cart play
Who cares? And there's nothing stopping you from playing with a Dynamax clause on cart, you can agree not to use Dynamax just like you can agree not to use Mewtwo. Should we unban all Ubers because that also has nothing to do with cart mechanics? Hell why not just do away with tiering entirely? This is a nonsensical argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:15:14 No.51776755 Report

Quoted By: >>51776772 >>51776795 >>51777451

>>51774325
>Ursaluna
Slow as balls and TR is a meme
>Basculegion
It has no moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:16:50 No.51776765 Report

Quoted By: >>51776792

>>51776741
Yeah yeah this discussion always goes the same way, some retard thinks they’re smart making a comparison between Pokemon and abilities and a built in game mechanic you always have access to.
>AG
Lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:18:15 No.51776772 Report

Quoted By: >>51777451

>>51776755
>It has no moves
Everything in Legends has no moves, even Clefable's movepool is ass in that game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:20:23 No.51776792 Report

Quoted By: >>51776861

>>51776765
Go on, explain why Ditto would have over 5x the usage rate in AG that it does in Ubers if Dynamax isn't the problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:20:46 No.51776795 Report

Quoted By: >>51776881

>>51776755
Ursaluna has Tera Facades as strong as Fishious Rend
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 246-289 (62.4 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (246, 247, 250, 253, 256, 259, 262, 265, 268, 271, 274, 277, 280, 283, 286, 289)
+1 252+ Atk Adaptability Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 246-290 (62.4 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (246, 248, 252, 254, 258, 260, 262, 266, 268, 272, 274, 278, 280, 284, 286, 290)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:24:24 No.51776819 Report

Quoted By:

If Smogon bans it it'll probably be a suspect test instead of a quickban, so the only people who could bitch about the ban would be people who either suck at the game or refused to participate.

/vp/ will bitch and seethe about it either way, because it's /vp/.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:30:18 No.51776861 Report

Quoted By: >>51776894 >>51776903 >>51776934 >>51782535

>>51776792
Go on, explain why Ditto being good is innately a problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:33:12 No.51776881 Report

Quoted By:

>>51776795
The key difference here is that Ursaluna is stuck having to hold Flame Orb like every other Guts user. It's only slightly stronger than Conkeldurr, just as slow, and doesn't have any priority unlike Conk. And Conk already isn't very good.

Dracovish was broken because on top of OHKO or 2HKOing practically everything with Fishious Rend it could also run Scarf and hit a high enough speed tier to actually be a threat with that power. Ursaluna doesn't have that luxury, instead it has to lose 6% of its HP every turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:34:43 No.51776894 Report

Quoted By:

>>51776861
Go on, explain how we can tell you're full of shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:35:54 No.51776903 Report

Quoted By: >>51777406

>>51776861
Ditto is a Pokemon that gets inherently better the more powercreep there is and the more volatile the metagame is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 00:39:42 No.51776934 Report

Quoted By:

>>51776861
Because unlike other Pokemon Ditto does nothing on its own, all it does is copy the opponent. It has high usage in AG because even in AG, with Ubers and AG Pokemon allowed, copying boosts and reverse sweeping is the only reliable teambuilding answer to the Dynamax meta. It's something that's impossible to prepare for otherwise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 01:47:15 No.51777333 Report

Quoted By:

I actually think it won't be banned, because it's so complex and there are so many Pokemon it breaks.
With Dynamax, the justification of it being broken was the traditional one, it homogenized the meta by centralizing around a specific set of core sweepers, mainly Flying types.
Terastalize breaks every competitive mon with good stat spreads, abilities and movepools, all at once. You can't really say "it's centralizing" because it's literally so complex there is no power play.
Take Ash-Greninja, for example.
>Tera Ghost: Immune to Mega Medicham Fake-Out
>Tera Bug: Resist Rillaboom, OHKO with U-Turn
>Tera Ice: OHKO Tangrowth and Tapu Bulu
>Tera Poison: OHKO Fini
>Tera Dark: Chunk anything that switches in
This is well above the power of Protean Greninja, because of AG's great BST and spread letting it nab KOs Protean Greninja would fail to get.
But you have this for every mon, including Hydreigon, Latios, Melmetal, Golisopod, Regigigas, Zeraora, Dragapult, Kartana, Blacephalon, Terrakion, Frosmoth, Darmanitan, Heracross, etc.
So many mons have to be banned, Smogon won't do it, but they can't prove the mechanic is centralizing because there are so many ways to abuse it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 01:56:24 No.51777391 Report

Quoted By: >>51777410

>>51774234
>because the alternative is banning a shit load of strong offense Pokemon.
>/vp/ will cry and say it's because of a stall agenda.
>strong offensive pokemon
>ban offense
Hmmm yup. Totally not all about stall in smogonland.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 01:57:42 No.51777396 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774160
Why are they so gay? Why do they ban everything fun?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 01:58:58 No.51777406 Report

Quoted By: >>51777479

>>51776903
>volatile
Nonsense buzzword in this context and of course a 2 week old meta is evolving quickly
>>51776903
>Stronger with more power creep
Makes zero sense, Ditto gets stronger in boost heavy or mega stall metas
Even in early XY everyone had ditto because “lmao2mega” and it fell off

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 01:59:20 No.51777410 Report

Quoted By: >>51777655

>>51777391
If you hate stall, Terrastalize Salazzle into a Steel-type and let her poison the entire stall team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 01:59:49 No.51777415 Report

Quoted By: >>51780963

>>51774160
Didn't know a third party website dictates how you play the game you paid for and own.
Pretty funny

bbnd

bbnd Fri 28 Oct 2022 02:05:54 No.51777451 Report

Quoted By:

>>51776755
you both are tards then and you will get beaten in a Pokémon match soon cry about it
>>51776772

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 02:10:40 No.51777479 Report

Quoted By: >>51777500

>>51777406
>Nonsense buzzword in this context and of course a 2 week old meta is evolving quickly
Dynamax was banned after a few months of play, had previous play testing, and Ditto’s high usage is proof of that.
>Makes zero sense, Ditto gets stronger in boost heavy or mega stall metas
Even in early XY everyone had ditto because “lmao2mega” and it fell off
Maybe it fell off after a bunch of powercreep was banned? Woah!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 02:13:29 No.51777500 Report

Quoted By:

>>51777479
Dynamax was banned quite literally one month into Swsh release and put up for suspect 2 weeks in.
>Maybe it fell off after power creep was banned
Ah ok so your assertion is unfalsifiable, if anything in the meta ever changes it’s a result of bans elsewhere

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 02:16:47 No.51777526 Report

Quoted By: >>51777649

>>51774234
>Shitload
So Volcarona, and....?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 02:34:23 No.51777649 Report

Quoted By: >>51781820

>>51777526
Volcarona probably won't be banned, like every other time people thought it would be banned.
Dragapult and Ash Greninja however are absolutely busted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 02:35:54 No.51777655 Report

Quoted By:

>>51777410
>her

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 02:36:22 No.51777657 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774197
He knows

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 03:13:08 No.51777929 Report

Quoted By: >>51777954

>>51774160
>Will Smogon ban it?
Wasn't it banned already? Like, entirely, before the game launched?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 03:17:40 No.51777954 Report

Quoted By: >>51777960

>>51777929
You're making things up to be mad at.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 03:18:00 No.51777960 Report

Quoted By:

>>51777954
I'm not even mad, it's a genuine question because I saw threads earlier about it but never looked into them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 03:55:28 No.51778140 Report

Quoted By: >>51778170 >>51781030

It'll probably be banned by December, and you'll have the typical faggots on /vp/ who don't even play complaining about the removal of "the defining feature of a generation."

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 03:59:37 No.51778170 Report

Quoted By: >>51781027

>>51778140
Well, I'm frustrated Smogon doesn't appear to have an alternate ruleset which allows it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 08:16:58 No.51779381 Report

Quoted By:

>>51774160
I think unlike Dynamax it seems tame enough to survive in Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:27:35 No.51780954 Report

Quoted By: >>51781074

>>51776379
toxapex isn't even that good in smogon singles rn. i seriously don't get where this stall narrative you people think smogon operates by comes from

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:28:36 No.51780963 Report

Quoted By: >>51781807

>>51777415
It doesn't? I play exclusively on showdown because singles don't exist on cartridge, I play vgc there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:28:52 No.51780967 Report

Quoted By: >>51780982

>>51774160
>will /vp/ bitch about it
Oh wow I didn't know /vp/ live rent free in smogtard's head

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:30:07 No.51780982 Report

Quoted By:

>>51780967
the opposite is very much true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:32:02 No.51781001 Report

Quoted By:

>>51776379
I don't understand why this would change with terastal. Unless GF starts outright nerfing mons (they might) the good Pokemon will stay good, Landorus isn't going anywhere no matter what the meta is like, much like how Incineroar isn't going anywhere in VGC and if Kyogre is legal it will always be good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:35:38 No.51781027 Report

Quoted By:

>>51778170
this is a mistake imo. i felt dynamax had to go but they should have had a playlist (that isn't completely unplayable like AG) where it's usable after ubers got rid of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:35:55 No.51781030 Report

Quoted By: >>51781480

>>51778140
Terastallize will last way longer, and probably won't be banned. It is much less broken than you imagine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:37:47 No.51781041 Report

Quoted By: >>51781073

>>51776625
>Yeah, that's the point. Dynamax meta turns every game into a win or loss at team preview.
Please explain because normally, it increases the importance of mind games and careful prediction as opposed to hardcounter teams and scouting.
In fact that's precisely the reason why I like it so much. Scouting is cancer and Smogon is way too soft with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:39:31 No.51781054 Report

Quoted By:

I've never really got the complaints about Smogon banning things here, they do it pretty fairly (in new gens). If everyone in this thread got reqs and voted for Terastal to stay it would win by a supermajority.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:41:43 No.51781073 Report

Quoted By: >>51781091

>>51781041
>Have team of 3 sweepers, 2 powerful Pokemon, and Ditto
>See opponent's team
>Who wins is determined by whoever is more likely to get the switch initiative and pull off a sweep only stoppable by Ditto countersweeping

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:41:43 No.51781074 Report

Quoted By: >>51781084

>>51780954
I'm a stall player because it's a reliable and stress-free way of laddering, but stall (counters rather than checks) and scouting go hand in hand and are precisely the reason why Smogon banned dynamax rather than use their tiering system properly.
Admins/room owners who can use bots have an unfair advantage for scouting player teams and keep pushing this shit. These faggots are the bane of competitive Pokèmon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:43:30 No.51781084 Report

Quoted By: >>51781103

>>51781074
i've tried stall and i don't think it's stress free or relaxing at all considering you lose of a single mistake. BO is the comfiest playstyle

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:44:12 No.51781091 Report

Quoted By: >>51781194

>>51781073
>Who wins is determined by whoever is more likely to get the switch initiative
If whoever predicts correctly wins then the game is working properly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:45:06 No.51781096 Report

Quoted By: >>51781099 >>51781105

Actual Smogtard here - we're not ruling out the possibility of a Tera ban at some point, but we definitely want to implement Terastalization in Showdown first and see what sort of meta develops before taking any actions.

If it Terastalization looks like it's not conducive to a healthy meta and ends up generating a clear Tier 0 strategy somewhere, we'll take whatever actions leads to more diverse play.

For instance (I am completely making this example up), if we find out that 'Adaptability' is utterly broken with Terastalization, to the point that you're forced to either use a pokemon with that ability in your team or forced to run a strategy that directly counters the usage of Adaptability, we may just consider a ban of pokemon with that ability or a ban of that ability itself, rather than banning the entire Terastalization mechanic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:45:53 No.51781099 Report

Quoted By: >>51781349 >>51781634

>>51781096
proof you're not just making this up? i've seen nothing in IS about it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:47:24 No.51781103 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781084
>BO is the comfiest playstyle
I respect this opinion. It's also more efficient for laddering since stall vs stall matchups are hell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:47:39 No.51781105 Report

Quoted By: >>51781349

>>51781096
>actual smogtard
Post proof

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 12:59:53 No.51781194 Report

Quoted By: >>51781264

>>51781091
Who ever gets switch initiative is heavily dependent on team preview, not LE EBIN READS!!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 13:00:51 No.51781205 Report

Quoted By: >>51781247 >>51781277 >>51781321 >>51781975

>>51774160
It will be Dynamax all over again:

>Hmm, our prized Lando-T, Heatran and Garchomp are having their ass kicked by some shitsom that strategically terastillizes into an ice/water/ground type, plus our beloved stall meta is at risk of crumbling because suddenly some SFMA that terastillizes into a steel type while keeping its original STABs can run through our precious Eviolite Chansey, Toxapex and Ferrothorn. We should ban these abusers that have no place in OU!
>What's going on? Even though the broken Tera abusers are gone, suddenly OU is full of hyper-offense mons that strategically Terastillize into a type that destroys their counters! We can't let Weavile, Scarf Ditto and some glass cannon that should be checked by a weak priority move to destroy our wonderful stall meta!
>Perhaps we should ban Tera Blast!
>Oh no! Even though Tera Blast is gone there are mons with large movepools that still bring unbalanced hyper-offense in our meticolously crafted tier of stall and fatmons!
>This is it! We should ban the gimmick as a whole! Let me come up with a 1000-word essay on why this is a very UNHEALTHY mechanic that is all about 50/50 and it's OPPRESSIVE and RESTRICTING right from team building!
>Terastillized has been banned from Smogon OU. Want to play with it? Buy the game!

And this, folks, is how Pokemon Showdown has managed to dodge Nintendo's C&D. It's not about balance. It's about not stepping on the toes of the actual games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 13:06:00 No.51781247 Report

Quoted By: >>51781321

>>51781205
>Hmm, our prized Lando-T, Heatran and Garchomp are having their ass kicked by some shitsom that strategically terastillizes into an ice/water/ground type, plus our beloved stall meta is at risk of crumbling because suddenly some SFMA that terastillizes into a steel type while keeping its original STABs can run through our precious Eviolite Chansey, Toxapex and Ferrothorn. We should ban these abusers that have no place in OU!
What's with retards thinking these universal gimmicks are a hail mary to shitmons instead of simply making the rich richer? I wonder what's more effective at using this mechanic, a shitty SFMA that doesn't even do that much damage or a actually fast and powerful breaker that was already good on its own?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 13:07:31 No.51781262 Report

Quoted By:

>Hmm, our prized Lando-T, Heatran and Garchomp are having their ass kicked by some shitsom that strategically terastillizes into an ice/water/ground type, plus our beloved stall meta is at risk of crumbling because suddenly some SFMA that terastillizes into a steel type while keeping its original STABs can run through our precious Eviolite Chansey, Toxapex and Ferrothorn. We should ban these abusers that have no place in OU!

I don't get this line of thinking. It's not how it works. Also stall hasn't been "meta" since like ORAS. I swear some of you are actual 1400 ELO players.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 13:07:47 No.51781264 Report

Quoted By: >>51781337

>>51781194
>Who ever gets switch initiative is heavily dependent on team preview
At team preview you should send the right mon. You have 6 options and you have built your ladder team specifically so you win against most teams, it's not that hard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 13:08:57 No.51781277 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781205
t. uses eeveelution and red's team on smogon. i'm actually starting to believe the people who say /vp/ is the least skilled pokemon community online

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 13:14:09 No.51781321 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781205
>>Hmm, our prized Lando-T, Heatran and Garchomp are having their ass kicked by some shitsom that strategically terastillizes into an ice/water/ground type
Anon, you do know all those Pokemon can Terastallize too? And that none of those Pokemon were available when Dynamax was banned?
>>51781247
Dynatards are notoriously low elo. They play RandBat and against their friends, beat them, and then wonder why people who play at a level where they can exploit every drop of a mechanic would think Dynamax is broken.
Ever since Dynamax was banned, they have been so mind broken by it. You'll hear them say shit like Switching being overpowered (while complaining about Stealth Rock) and how Terastallize will be banned faster than Dynamax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 13:15:10 No.51781337 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781264
Play the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 13:16:56 No.51781349 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781099
>>51781105

If you want a screenshot or something, I've got nothing. I haven't done much with the competitive scene in years, and didn't think much when I was casually asking questions in one of our Showdown Staff channels a month or so ago. I was just curious if we were handling new content any differently since I had left the scene.

The response I got basically has matched our unofficial policy for all the new mechanics that Showdown has supported with each generation since its development.

As far as official policy goes, for the guy in IS... I have no intentions of get(ting) ahead of (my)self.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 13:38:55 No.51781480 Report

Quoted By: >>51781789 >>51781797

>>51781030
The doubled STAB alone sounds ridiculous on paper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:15:27 No.51781634 Report

Quoted By: >>51781652

>>51781099
What are they posting in IS regarding SV?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:18:07 No.51781652 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781634
othing much yet the games aren't out

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:19:59 No.51781663 Report

Quoted By: >>51781684

Never played on Smogon and never will, but I promise I will make daily threads bitching about the inevitable ban

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:20:00 No.51781664 Report

Quoted By: >>51781678

>>51774197
>mind games are uncompetitive
>but purposefully wasting time until your opponent forfeits is
I hate smoggies. Not that VGC is any better. Truth of the matter is that comp is for autists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:21:35 No.51781678 Report

Quoted By: >>51781691 >>51781693

>>51781664
Stall only works on the ladder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:22:34 No.51781684 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781663
based

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:23:34 No.51781691 Report

Quoted By: >>51781720

>>51781678
I've seen some stall in tours recently, but yeah it's not very good. The problem with 2 Toxapex hitting knock off into each other for 25 turns still exists though but that's knock off being broken more than anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:23:47 No.51781693 Report

Quoted By: >>51781713 >>51781736

>>51781678
Doesn’t stop these schizos from tailoring their meta to be friendly towards it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:26:26 No.51781713 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781693
who? the schizos on /vp/ who think it's good?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:27:39 No.51781720 Report

Quoted By: >>51781731

>>51781691
Toxapex would still use pre-gen 6 Knock Off because it's not using the move for damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:28:42 No.51781731 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781720
yes that's my point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:29:34 No.51781736 Report

Quoted By: >>51781746

>>51781693
If they actually actually cared about stall as much as /vp/ thinks they do then Heatran and Lele would be banned to shit right about now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:32:05 No.51781746 Report

Quoted By: >>51781781

>>51781736
the average /vp/ mouth breather https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-657472 thinks these are stall teams because there's not 6 sweepers on each team

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:37:16 No.51781781 Report

Quoted By: >>51781803

>>51781746
use corviknight + landorus and torn on same team mean youre a stalling faggot yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:38:41 No.51781789 Report

Quoted By: >>51781809

>>51781480
STAB is not that powerful. Mons have been running STAB since RBY and it didn't run things into the ground because resistances still exist.
Even with the on-type psuedo adaptability, you can switch in something that resists it.

Nowhere near as busted as getting an HP boost, making all moves stronger, STAB or not, and added effects that give free boosts without needing to waste turn on the respective status moves to set up

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:39:08 No.51781791 Report

Quoted By:

dear smoggies, stop taking /vp/ seriously like damn

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:39:54 No.51781797 Report

Quoted By: >>51781805 >>51781891 >>51781902

>>51781480
Not as much as you think.
Tera
>Can choose to boost at most 1 typing
>STAB moves get a x1.3333~ boost
>Non-STAB moves get a x1.5 boost
>Any drawbacks to the moves are all retained, so moves like Blast Burn are a no go again
>Besides typing changes of your choosing in teambuilder and Tera Blast, there is nothing else you get from Terastalling
Dynamax
>Double HP, but in a way that also nerfs moves like Pain Split and Super Fang
>All your attacking moves become Max Moves with BP increases that are extremely close to x1.5 boost to regular moves
>They all bypass Protect
>They all also ignore any drawbacks, which means moves like Blast Burn or Sky Attack can be used for free
>All Max Moves have their own guaranteed effects, which range from setting Terrain, setting Weather, Stat Buffs for you, and Stat Debuffs for your opponent
>Sometimes Pokemon have exclusive effects, like -1/6th Health for all non-Fire types on your opponent’s side for 4 straight turns
>Only drawbacks being you lose some positive attributes like positive priority and effects, but most of the time are only marginal
>You’re also immune to Flinching
>And Weight based moves entirely
>And ability replacing moves/abilities
>And being forced out without Eject Button
>And a bunch of the important Volatile Statuses like Encore
>Your only other drawbacks are removing your Sub, making your Status moves into Max Guard (which is a positive in Doubles), and makes healing items slightly worse.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tapu-lele-angry.gif, 4MiB, 498x280

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:41:19 No.51781803 Report

Quoted By: >>51781845

>>51781781
>lando is now a stall mon
Lel(e)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:41:36 No.51781805 Report

Quoted By: >>51781874

>>51781797
Dynamax only lasts 3 turns, Tera for the entire battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:41:50 No.51781807 Report

Quoted By: >>51781813

>>51780963
Doesn't Battle Stadium Singles exist on cartridge?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:41:59 No.51781809 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781789
It's not just STAB, it's doubled STAB that also stacks with weaknesses. A move that would hit for NVE damage is now on par with a neutral coverage hit. Combine that with an item and any random beatstick becomes amazingly powerful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:42:39 No.51781813 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781807
not him but there's no proper 6v6 singles format on cartridge

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:43:40 No.51781820 Report

Quoted By: >>51781826

>>51777649
Volcarona was always teetering on the edge of a suspect with the exception of Gen 6 because of Flying spam (namely Talonflame cucking it to the point where it dropped to BL).
Now being able to switch to a good typing on top of keeping it's fire STAB as well has having two alternate forms means Volcarona in some fashion is getting the boot if Teralistzation doesn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:45:02 No.51781826 Report

Quoted By: >>51781949 >>51782002

>>51781820
water volcarona just seems broken as fuck to me on paper and i struggle to think of much stuff that isn't toxapex or fats like chansey or bliss that handle it that well. weirdly it'd make stall better not worse

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:48:38 No.51781845 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781803
Lando is a everything mon. There's no role it doesn't excel at.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:52:58 No.51781868 Report

Quoted By: >>51781881

>>51774300
>1 afternoon in Gen 7 because you have to fight 10 Toxapex teams in a row
so much fun

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:54:00 No.51781874 Report

Quoted By: >>51781915

>>51781805
>muh 3 turns
3 turns is well more than enough to just win the game with Dynamax, especially in VGC, and that isn’t counting the Max move effects. Those effects last after Dynamax is done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:54:50 No.51781881 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781868
so play gen 8

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:56:24 No.51781891 Report

Quoted By: >>51781913 >>51781925 >>51781951

>>51781797
>Sometimes Pokemon have exclusive effects, like -1/6th Health for all non-Fire types on your opponent’s side for 4 straight turns
Lapras was literally the only good Gmax effect, every other one was worse than the standard move it replaced (and being forced to use Lapras is a pretty big downside). You're right about everything else though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:58:00 No.51781902 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781797
You forgot that Dynamaxing let you break choice locking, that was pretty huge too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:58:57 No.51781913 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781891
>Lapras was literally the only good Gmax effect
The Kanto starter and Coalossal's Gmax effects were good in doubles. The chip damage affecting both opponents added up to a lot over time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 14:59:16 No.51781915 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781874
What happens in practice 90% of the time is that you counter-Dynamax, stall for 3 turns with Max Guard>Max offensive move>Max Guard and finish it off with priority or a faster mon after it's done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:00:28 No.51781925 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781891
Copperajah has its "stealth steel" hazard which is meh in doubles but can be good in singles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:03:50 No.51781949 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781826
>weirdly it'd make stall better not worse
That's how all of these mechanics work which is the thing /vp/ fails to understand. Full stall teams are the only ones that can possibly stand up to the insane offensive pressure of Dynamax or Terastal therefore stalling actually becomes the meta, it's everything in the middle between hyper offense and stall that gets fucked.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:04:04 No.51781951 Report

Quoted By:

>>51781891
>Lapras was literally the only good Gmax effect, every other one was worse than the standard move it replaced
That is absolutely just blatantly false. vast majority of G-Max moves are better. There are only a few that are worse like Corviknight and Melmetal. You rarely say them because they were linked to either shitmons like Pikachu or the Pokemon wasn’t at full potential yet, like Rillaboom. Or you didn’t actually know what the G-Max move did. I didn’t know Centiskorch and Sandaconda have G-Max moves that trap you even after you leave the field and work with partial trapping items until a few months ago. So I don’t blame you for thinking this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:07:41 No.51781975 Report

Quoted By: >>51782060

>>51781205
>Ferrothorn
>stall

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:11:56 No.51782002 Report

Quoted By: >>51782030

>>51781826
>weirdly it'd make stall better not worse
Time to bring back SubSwarm Volcarona terastalized into Bug.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:17:01 No.51782030 Report

Quoted By:

>>51782002
isn't one of the paradox volcarona's hinted to be fighting type anyways

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:21:31 No.51782060 Report

Quoted By: >>51782068 >>51782081 >>51782826

>>51781975
When people say Smogon favors stall they don't mean Smogon's autistic definition of "only a team with 3 attacks or less not including knock off" is stall, they mean Smogon has essentially no upper limit on how hard a wall is to get rid of while offensive mons with clear weaknesses can and will be banned. The only way a wall can be banned is if it's an intentionally broken box legend.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:24:04 No.51782068 Report

Quoted By: >>51782157

>>51782060
Because it's very hard for a wall to be so fundamentally broken it breaks the tier. Toxapex is the closest (and not in gen 8) and they've acknowledged it but it never got good enough to get rid off. Also did they ban Mega Sableye in XY.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:25:47 No.51782081 Report

Quoted By: >>51782087 >>51782094

>>51782060
This.
Shit like Ferrothorn and Toxapex exist only to make a match last way more than it should. They don't have to be used in a dedicated stall team to be stallmons.

This only happens in Smogon's metas by the way, they're almost always shitmons in official formats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:26:09 No.51782087 Report

Quoted By: >>51782107

>>51782081
Ferrothorn isn't a stallmon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:27:01 No.51782094 Report

Quoted By: >>51782116

>>51782081
so do you only want hyper offense vs hyper offense in every match?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:28:32 No.51782107 Report

Quoted By: >>51782112 >>51782145

>>51782087
Ferrothorn can last for dozens of turns, it is a stallmon by definition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:29:21 No.51782112 Report

Quoted By: >>51782124

>>51782107
retarded 1300 /vp/ mouth breather.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:29:34 No.51782116 Report

Quoted By: >>51782127

>>51782094
No? But there is a problem when a pokemon by itself can disrupt or outright wall half of the opponent's team or more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:30:35 No.51782124 Report

Quoted By: >>51782144 >>51782171

>>51782112
Stall is more common in the upper ladder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:31:00 No.51782127 Report

Quoted By:

>>51782116
show me a good team where half of the mons can't make progress against ferrothorn

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1656962466172.png, 72KiB, 591x674

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:33:32 No.51782144 Report

Quoted By: >>51782179

>>51782124
Moderately I guess? This is 1800+. I think stall is actually slightly more common in the 1700s which isn't high ladder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:33:39 No.51782145 Report

Quoted By:

>>51782107
It's not lasting dozens of turns unless someone is completely without a fighting or fire move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:35:10 No.51782157 Report

Quoted By: >>51782170

>>51782068
They banned Mega Sableye literally a day before Gen 7 lol. And of course a wall can never be broken enough to break a tier because the qualifiers Smogon uses for something to be "broken" exclusively use sweeping as a basis. A wall could reduce viable attackers to only 5% of existing Pokemon and it would still not be considered centralizing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:36:56 No.51782170 Report

Quoted By:

>>51782157
You're making things up to be angry about when stats show you're just wrong. Name a single Pokemon that reduces viable attackers to such a small number.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:36:56 No.51782171 Report

Quoted By:

>>51782124
Ok? And only low elo shitters think Ferrothorn is a Stallmon because it lasts longer than 2 turns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:38:20 No.51782179 Report

Quoted By: >>51782188 >>51782249

>>51782144
idk this honestly doesnt look super stall centric to me. outside of clef (which isn't a stallmon by default though it can be) and MAYBE tornadus in some niche cases the top 10 doesn't have stallmons. i get toxapex is 11 but blissey isn't even on there anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:39:21 No.51782188 Report

Quoted By:

>>51782179
It's not. Stall isn't good at all right now because if you make even a single mistake or get unlucky once you immediately lose and Heatran/Lele exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:45:53 No.51782235 Report

Quoted By:

the problem historically is that people here generally consider teams to be stall much sooner than anyone who plays the game competitively does. whether that's fair or not is up for debate and has been argued about in circles here for years

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 15:47:53 No.51782249 Report

Quoted By:

>>51782179
Low elo shitters treat teams like they are on the modern game review score spectrum.
Instead of any score being below a 9/10 mean the reviewer despised the game, it's anything that isn't Hyper Offense meaning Stall. It doesn't matter if it's an offensive team with a single wall, Bulky Offense, Balance, Defensive, or bulky set up teams, it's Stall to them all the same.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 16:24:06 No.51782535 Report

Quoted By:

>>51776861
It was only balanced when it gained the ability to transform on entry, once it gained the ability to steal setups it went too far.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Oct 2022 17:07:00 No.51782826 Report

Quoted By:

>>51782060
>when people say stall they don't mean stall
We know, that's why you're retarded.

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