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Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 00:08:47 No.53009055 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>53009152 >>53009164 >>53009172 >>53009343 >>53009635 >>53009782 >>53009909 >>53009932

I honestly need convincing that Open World is even a good thing for Pokemon to do. In this generation alone it had the following negative effects:
Screwed the only good boxart designs in the last decade with shitty rideable forms and early obtaining.
Screwed smart traversal and replaced it with a Legendary that can Traverse in any way, making the navigation even fucking easier.
Screwed the story where the devs don't have to put effort to weave storylines together and can just slap them all over.
Further Screwed any hope for World Puzzles.
Increased the abundance of invisible walls, breaking any immersion you wish for.
Limited the diversity of Location Design.
Overall turned a game with chunks of objectives and turned it into a sandbox for walking.

What's the benefit of Open World? What does this so-called freedom allow for? I want the devs to be able to present me with challenging tasks, so why should I care if it's in a specific order so long as I actually get a meaningful experience? Convince me that Open World is good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 00:13:04 No.53009086 Report

Quoted By: >>53009124 >>53009798

Almost none of these are inherent to an open world structure, there's no technical reason GF can't have interesting location design, overworld interactions, or traversal mechanics. The only thing it inherently weakens is having a linear story and if you're playing pokemon games for the fuckin story you're pretty much beyond help.

The reason open world works is because the biggest hurdle of an open world game is designing motivation to explore it. But GF already has the motivation in the pokemon, they just have to design a competent shell around that. But none of their issues are inherent to the genre.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 00:16:51 No.53009124 Report

Quoted By: >>53009165

>>53009086
>if you're playing pokemon games for the fuckin story you're pretty much beyond help
>if you're playing pokemon games for interesting location design, overworld interactions, or traversal mechanics, that's perfectly fine, but they just happen to not be good right now
Not trying to be rude or anything, but I just want to point out that none of these HAVE to be bad, and thinking any of them don't matter and are okay with being worsened isn't the right mentality to have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 00:20:39 No.53009152 Report

Quoted By: >>53009172 >>53009233 >>53009792

>>53009055
Literally of these aren’t inherent flaws of open world, they’re flaws of GameFreak’s development and the little time and resources TPCi and Nintendo give them.

>Legendary traversal?
Could be specific other rides or riding your own ‘Mons. Also
>Early obtaining
You can’t use it to battle until post-game and you actually get to bond with it. It was a fun one off thing and will only be bad if repeated too soon or too much.
>Smart traversal
You have to beat specific titans though, and if there was scaling or even just more difficulty it’s a fun reward for hard work. There are some issues with the design, but again, they could just… design better. There’s some fun hidden away areas too that just need better awards or more rare ‘Mons.
>Screwed the story
Pokémon has never been story focused and as we can see from SM it gets fucked over by centralising on the story because it rapes the pacing. I actually thought the stories were pretty fun, low stakes but engaging. But once again, this isn’t an open world issue - tons of open world games have linear stories that encourage breaks or a branching stories that are still “linear” but have alternate routes or you can do some things out of order.
>World Puzzles
This is actually an issue with open world, because you’ll get tools to deal with it. The fix here is creating areas where rides are limited, such as BOTW’s shrines or even just caves/dense foliage.
>Diversity of locations
I’d have to disagree. Paldea is actually pretty diverse on paper, but the artwork does a poor job of conveying it. Even if there’s a lot of “green fields”, they differ between flat, hilly, marshy, riverside, cliffs, etc. Sure there’s no volcano (like most Pokémon games don’t have) or anything and I feel the desert is laughably small, but again this is something you can fix with better world design.
>Invisible walls
Tbh I barely saw any besides the world boundary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 00:22:26 No.53009164 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009055
I miss the top down era of Pokémon. Gen 7 was the beginning of the end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 00:22:31 No.53009165 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009124
You will never have a good pokemon story and it would be better if they cut it entirely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 00:23:22 No.53009172 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009055
>>53009152
>Objective/walking simulator
Just like Pokémon in 2D, huh. At least open world and overworld encounters make catching Pokémon fun. I wish it was a more complicated version of PLA’s system though, or even just quicker/more streamlined in terms of text clunkiness and animation.

Open World enhances like 70% of the franchise’s aspects, doesn’t touch 20%, and makes only like 10% worse. It only seems like the problem because you’re autistic and either can’t cope with change or are using it as a scapegoat for other issues the series has.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 00:32:48 No.53009233 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009152
While I hear what you're saying I have to disagree with the fact that you take everything being improvable for granted, but realistically it's the scope of Open World that makes harder any improvement in these fields, and without much benefit. Yet the story can be infinitely better, but that's dismissed as not being a valid reason to play a game. Stories don't have o rape pacing. When it comes to limiting traversal in some areas, that's leaning more into some linearity for a segment of the game. For example, it makes sense for Area Zero to be limited until after the storylines are complete, and finding ways to naturally limit you from going there would be ideal. This technically makes the game more in the linear direction compared to a hypothetical version where you can go there from the beginning. I guess my point is that the line between Open World and Linearity isn't so distinct, and there just have to be natural barriers between areas that make sense. There are both versions of the game that do this, and I consider them all to have the good stuff.
As for location diversity, I meant the designs of cities and stuff, as well as being able to enter visible doors. We used to often have cities with utopian (?) designs, and when translated into a 3D version that's visible from all angles there's less possible creativity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 00:47:12 No.53009343 Report

Quoted By: >>53009416

>>53009055
>early obtaining
This is good actually. These are the first legendaries that we have a reason to be attached to. As opposed to “wuhh 10 year old child walks into random chamber and captures a godlike dragon”

>making the navigation easier
Easier than what? Moving on a grid and going up and down ladders?

>screwed the story
This is the only story in the main series to have any real emotional weight. It even gives you a little taste of a traditional RPG party during the final act

>invisible walls
“Manbaby is upset he can’t walk past the edge of the game map

The only valid complaints you have are the world design and objectives. Neither of those things have been good in modern Pokémon.

These games have brought a level of immersion to the series that is only rivaled by Legends. As a player you’re able to move across the vast land and choose which Pokémon to capture as you please, rather than being gated by stupid scripted events. As soon as they develop a game that combines the fast paced gameplay of Legends with the scale and exploration of SV we will finally have a modern game that is not good, but great. If they add side quests and puzzles on top that’s just bonus.

Just because you want a game that plays like it was developed in the 90s doesn’t mean open world ruined Pokémon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 00:56:03 No.53009416 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009343
This post screams of strawmanning to defend some obscure "older" game.
>you're not allowed to want these things to be objectively better because games that did them well are old lol
>you're not supposed to want realism and should settle for having invisible walls everywhere
>you're supposed to pretend older games didn't naturally build up box legendaries for the most part, pretend there wasn't more difficult navigation in older games as a result of the game design, and pretend there weren't better stories before SV
I'm not even hating on Gen 9 in particular but your way of posting across threads makes me gag. And that's coming from a catalog surfer, probably like per month.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 01:25:26 No.53009635 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009055
>Screwed the only good boxart designs in the last decade with shitty rideable forms and early obtaining.
That’s the best thing they ever did with box legends tho. I will never grew any attachment to that one random god creature at the end of the game, but I will do so for a mon what is actively participates in story AND serves as continuation of player by being a mount. This is why these lizards are superior to literally every single legendary from any given gen. This is pretty much objective.

>Screwed smart traversal and replaced it with a Legendary that can Traverse in any way, making the navigation even fucking easier.

so you saying this, and then:

>Increased the abundance of invisible walls, breaking any immersion you wish for.

like, wut? You just contradict your own ”complaints"
And what’s more funny is what that statement about ”invisible walls” is completely false. There are barely any of them in the game’s world.

>Limited the diversity of Location Design.
SV region is just what you could expect from Pokémon region. No more, no less.
So I don’t getting this one either

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 01:34:06 No.53009710 Report

Quoted By: >>53009729

Can you even call SV "Open World" with that kind of implementation?

No level scaling meaning player would have to travel the areas according to specific level curve for optimal experience. SV basically put penalty on the player that would, for example, fight higher level curve gym first with the nerfing of other lower level curve gyms, so much for "Open World"

While at it, lets remove set mode for whatever reasons. Literally good option to have but no. I dont know why but they always seem to try to dampen the gameplay.

Elite Four and Champion also lack any decent challenge whatsoever. Lets put one of the best setup mon at the back of the team, a "Champion" team even.

Nemona real powerhouse team should have been used during the fest at the school. Feel like not many ppl even know Nemona has that team which is a shame because that team actually looks well structured, has interesting gimmick, could even outperformed Cynthia team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 01:36:27 No.53009729 Report

Quoted By: >>53009787

>>53009710
>it is easy so it is not an open world
Literally retard

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 01:41:22 No.53009769 Report

Quoted By:

I'll tell you why anon.

Pokemon is all about player agency - the whole point of Pokemon is that YOU get to pick your favourites, YOU get to choose your team build, YOU get to choose their movesets, YOU get to choose what balls to catch them in, etc. etc.

Therefore, in Pokemon, more freedom is always good if executed correctly.

Currently, a typical Pokemon adventure goes like

start town > first route > second town > forest > third town > second route > cave > fourth town etc. etc. It's too predictable in the year 2022.

Now imagine a BoTW-size open world where you have to explore and find the locations of the Pokemon you want - with rarer Pokemon requiring specific tasks to be completed before they appear (for example, breaking a specific part of a cave with a pickaxe to go in deeper). Gyms that aren't just in a town, but hidden up a mountain or in a random underground dungeon in the middle of a dense forest. Or a giant desert that seems endless and lost, but there are rumours from NPCs in the towns of a legendary that lies deep beneath the desert soil that hasn't been seen for hundreds of years, and you need to figure out how to bait him out.

See? The imagination can run completely wild on the open world concept. If done correctly, it would be objectively better than any Pokemon game to date.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 01:43:05 No.53009782 Report

Quoted By: >>53009885

>>53009055
>Screwed the only good boxart designs in the last decade with shitty rideable forms and early obtaining.
Okay? Not really because it's not a battle form. That's like saying that blue Xerneas made it worse.
Also they aren't legends.
>Screwed smart traversal and replaced it with a Legendary that can Traverse in any way, making the navigation even fucking easier.
Don't even know what the hell you're talking about.
>Screwed the story where the devs don't have to put effort to weave storylines together and can just slap them all over.
All things considered it has the most interconnected story and lore in a pokemon game since gen 5
>Further Screwed any hope for World Puzzles.
Ouzzles have run their course. The novelty
>Increased the abundance of invisible walls, breaking any immersion you wish for.
It has no real invisible walls outside of the team star areas, if you haven't done them, and the boundary
>Limited the diversity of Location Design.
You mean locations don't have variety anymore? I mean, not really, alola still stands as the bottom of the barrel in that regard.
>Overall turned a game with chunks of objectives and turned it into a sandbox for walking.
What?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 01:43:39 No.53009787 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009729
No, read again. The game discourages Open World gameplay experience with the lack of level scaling is what he wanted to say. The rest of the paragraph below is just rants to get out of his system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 01:44:07 No.53009792 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009152
>and the little time and resources TPCi and Nintendo give them.
Anon, they don't get resources from them they just handle their own shit also they regularly outsource anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 01:45:38 No.53009798 Report

Quoted By: >>53009932

>>53009086
The funny thing is that SV has both the best story and characters of any game, it's not even close either. A linear story does not necessarily equate to a good story and there's plenty of tricks you can use to craft a followable narrative across a hazy progression

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 02:01:46 No.53009885 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009782
>alola still stands as the bottom of the barrel in that regard.
Nah, SwSh is.
Alola has lots of stuff going on geographically, volcanoes, small islands, beaches, forests, caves, urban areas, labs. It is even fun to travel through because the overarching paths and vibrant environments.
SwSh looks dull, samey, mostly barren because Open World.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 02:05:51 No.53009909 Report

Quoted By: >>53009932

>>53009055
I don't even have the strength to reply to your bait, I won't say these games are perfect but the story and characters are kino. Blame retard zoomers for the lack of environmental puzzles, it's a trend that's going on in all of vidya.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 02:09:52 No.53009932 Report

Quoted By: >>53009950

>>53009055
The only good I've seen that open world design has done for Pokémon is the overall increase in encounters and being able to catch Pokémon without needing to engage in battle in Legends Arceus.
>>53009798
>>53009909
>best story and characters of any game
This is the real bait.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 02:12:00 No.53009939 Report

Quoted By: >>53010047

Gen 1/2 were sort "open" in how you could progress. The games became more scripted when they started to focus on story experience and to keep younger players from getting lost. Only now realizing that getting lost in the wild is what the people want (after success of Zelda and other similar games).

Open world is I think an alright fit for the series. But the game world we have now is just low quality on a creative and technical level. Apart from maybe Area Zero.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 02:14:15 No.53009950 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009932
Tell me which pokémon games have a better story than SV, I'll take the bait.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jan 2023 02:24:45 No.53010047 Report

Quoted By:

>>53009939
>Apart from maybe Area Zero
>The most scripted and linear area in the entire game
It's just as low quality as the rest of the game both creatively and technically.

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