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Sakurai on "what makes a good level curve"

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:25:38 No.53777599 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>53777647 >>53777739 >>53777801 >>53777916 >>53778327 >>53779831 >>53779913 >>53780480

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Be6km65CuuM

Sakurai just uploaded one of his game dev videos in which he streamlines what makes a good level curve.

While Pokémon is not mentioned explicitly, the principles behind his theory would actually explain why Johto's level curve works the way it does, and why that is not a bad thing per se.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:29:22 No.53777611 Report

Quoted By: >>53777619 >>53777620 >>53777630 >>53777639 >>53777649 >>53779828

Oh, so what ecelebs say is worth hearing now? Pathethic Johtranny.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:31:12 No.53777619 Report

Quoted By: >>53777627

>>53777611
>eceleb

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:31:37 No.53777620 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777611
>Indirectly admitting you only play pokemon
Your opinion is worth less than garbage

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:33:11 No.53777627 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777619
>retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:33:24 No.53777630 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777611
>Doesn't know who Sakurai is
Your opinion is worth less than dirt.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:34:30 No.53777639 Report

Quoted By: >>53777651

>>53777611
had this been posted on /v/ I would call you a retardniggerfaggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:36:15 No.53777647 Report

Quoted By: >>53778175

>>53777599
He doesn't even make rpgs
???

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:36:48 No.53777649 Report

Quoted By: >>53777666 >>53779783 >>53779828

>>53777611
These retards are biting the bait hard good work

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:37:51 No.53777651 Report

Quoted By: >>53777662 >>53777664

>>53777639
WAIT
How come chanssey is hitting so many times when it's called DOUBLE slap???

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:39:26 No.53777662 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777651
look up the animation

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:39:50 No.53777664 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777651
every number is two
four? that's just two twice
six? that's two three times
one? that's just half of two (and half is division by two)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:40:15 No.53777666 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777649
>Pretending it's bait once you realize you're retarded
Yeah, no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:51:51 No.53777739 Report

Quoted By: >>53777746 >>53777758 >>53777832

>>53777599
Sakurai is the last person I would look to when asking about what makes a good difficulty curve.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:53:37 No.53777746 Report

Quoted By: >>53777750 >>53777809

>>53777739
>I, mr. literal who, know what makes a good game better than a reputed game developer with years of experience

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:54:18 No.53777750 Report

Quoted By: >>53777765

>>53777746
Yeah, because I didn't make Kirby.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:56:17 No.53777758 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777739
What are you on? he made Kid Icarus Uprising.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:57:02 No.53777765 Report

Quoted By: >>53777771

>>53777750
True, you don't make anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:58:27 No.53777771 Report

Quoted By: >>53777779 >>53777809

>>53777765
What have you made?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 15:59:48 No.53777779 Report

Quoted By: >>53777781

>>53777771
Hold on let me check
>>53777777

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:00:42 No.53777781 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777779
So, nothing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:04:41 No.53777801 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777599
This is why I like "unbalanced" games like FE6 HM.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:06:08 No.53777809 Report

Quoted By: >>53777821

>>53777771
NTA but I have made multiple tabletop roleplaying games on my own, and I agree with >>53777746 , Sakurai has game design experience and he's right about peaks and valleys. You want the player(s) to have a chance to see how far they've come and curbstomp an encounter or two before you ramp the challenge back up. Gives them the dopamine hit to realize their progression and be excited to face tougher challenges in the future.

I'd post them but none of them are pokemon because I'm not stupid enough to try and translate pokemon into a TTRPG format. If I did you can bet your ass it would be 100% tojoh content monster-wise; nothing outside of the Gens 1 and 2 dexes. Just for my own sanity, I have a fallout system and I spent days getting every single item from fallouts 1-4 and NV statted. Doing that again but with a full bestiary would make me die inside.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:07:56 No.53777821 Report

Quoted By: >>53777831

>>53777809
Nothing about Pokemon is inherently incompatible with tabletop games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:10:22 No.53777831 Report

Quoted By: >>53778123

>>53777821
Every attempt made so far has had massive flaws, because they're either autistically trying to emulate the games which leads to a mess of bookkeeping and unplayable complexity or it goes for the anime where it's ultra rules-lite to the point the ESL authors can't even detail how certain shit works in their handbook. All three pokemon TTRPGs that have been made suck ass. Ironically, nintendo's official attempt from back in the late 90s/early 2000s is somehow actually better by barely being a TTRPG, that pokemon adventure game thing with the cards and the dumb anime episode adventure booklet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:10:57 No.53777832 Report

Quoted By: >>53777838

>>53777739
Well it's a good thing you're a talentless basement dwelling shitposter on /vp/ who wont ever even have the drive to make something, let alone something good, so your input is entirely meaningless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:12:20 No.53777838 Report

Quoted By: >>53777844

>>53777832
I've made more than you ever have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:13:49 No.53777844 Report

Quoted By: >>53777848

>>53777838
What, shitposts? I dont doubt it

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:15:36 No.53777848 Report

Quoted By: >>53777849

>>53777844
No, that's your domain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:15:54 No.53777849 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777848
epic

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:16:51 No.53777853 Report

Quoted By: >>53777858 >>53777871 >>53777936

Getting lucky with one game didnt make him an expert in game design lmao cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:17:49 No.53777858 Report

Quoted By: >>53777877

>>53777853
>One game

???

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:21:22 No.53777871 Report

Quoted By: >>53777877

>>53777853
So it's true............. Pokemon fans really DO only play Pokemon............

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:23:16 No.53777877 Report

Quoted By: >>53777884 >>53778186

>>53777858
>>53777871
super smash bros you fucking idiots

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:23:42 No.53777878 Report

Quoted By:

It shouldn't be a surprise that Pokemon fans don't play anything besides Pokemon, that's where all the Gen 2 level complaints come from in the first place

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:24:39 No.53777884 Report

Quoted By: >>53777901 >>53778829

>>53777877
I know Andy on the playground hasn't informed you of this, but Sakurai has headed more than just Smash Bros, Little Timmy.

btw you need to be 18 or older to post here

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:29:39 No.53777901 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777884
not anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:32:58 No.53777916 Report

Quoted By: >>53777953 >>53777963 >>53778370

>>53777599
He's right but none of what he said applies to any Pokemon game, much less Gen 2, and he isn't talking about a level curve, he's talking about a difficulty curve. Pokemon inherently starts off as low difficulty and becomes lower as your set of tools increases vastly to the point that once you get to the endgame a funny little gym guy telling you the boss is weak to Water moves is flat out insulting. It only comes back up at the very end because the E4 removes two major mechanics of free healing/swapping out your party (which barely even make a difference because healing items are cheap and plentiful and most people don't use that many Pokemon).

I have no idea why difficulty has become such a major point of contention for Pokemon fans when this series has literally never been about it in any way, shape or form.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:37:53 No.53777936 Report

Quoted By: >>53778829

>>53777853
If it were one game, I'd agree with you. When the guy has a perfect record across a dozen consecutive games, then eventually you have to concede Sakurai knows what he's talking about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:40:02 No.53777943 Report

Quoted By: >>53777966

Stop feeding the bait

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:42:28 No.53777953 Report

Quoted By: >>53778059

>>53777916
>once you get to the endgame a funny little gym guy telling you the boss is weak to Water moves
We're talking about gen 2, not nu-pokémon. Also, "level curve" as a concept is contained within "difficulty cirve".

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:43:50 No.53777963 Report

Quoted By: >>53778059 >>53778069

>>53777916
I dont have a horse in the gen 2 race, but I largely agree. The concept of a curve CAN be applied to something like a level curve, but it also doesnt mean the inverse (ie; lacking any semblance of a curve) must be true. It's just not really applicable here.

>I have no idea why difficulty has become such a major point of contention for Pokemon fans when this series has literally never been about it in any way, shape or form.

Because most people, but especially Pokemon fans who have the video game literacy of an actual infant, do not know how to properly convey their thoughts.

Pokemon's never used difficulty in the same overt method as something like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter or Megaman or whatever, but earlier games did require more effort and at least an iota of thought. It's not a binary, it's a scale, and while it was always low, challenge still existed in some capacity. A hyper casual gamer would realistically lose to Whitney, for example, if they just mashed A through the game. But newer generations (mainly 6-8) are so intensely paranoid of the player becoming stuck, or frustrated, or anything at all that would indicate challenge that the devs have added extra training wheels on top of training wheels throughout and in so many different places, that even the most basic dopamine driving tricks are just rendered meaningless. The games are SO easy, and SO hand holdy that there is virtually no chance for failure and thus even the bare minimum of satisfaction or accomplishment is stripped away.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 16:44:17 No.53777966 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777943
>it goes against what my t-tranny youtuber told me to think, it m-must be bait!!1!
Your lack of critical thinking is hella hilarious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:01:27 No.53778059 Report

Quoted By: >>53778071 >>53778126

>>53777953
>We're talking about gen 2,
Yes, and that is an NPC in those games.
>Also, "level curve" as a concept is contained within "difficulty cirve"
A level curve is gauged in quality on how well it helps players interact with the intended difficulty curve of the game. The difficulty curve is a much broader concept and what Sakurai is actually discussing.
I don't think Gen 2 has a bad level curve, it does the job adequately, but Pokemon games as a whole have bad difficulty curves from their inherent design. It doesn't make them bad games overall, but it does mean difficulty is a relative nonfactor in discussing these games. It'd be like discussing the difficulty and level curves of Stardew Valley or Animal Crossing.
>>53777963
I mean, if your way of measuring whether or not Pokemon has the right amount of difficulty is that there are some battles that can throw a casual off, those exist in the newer games as well. Gen 7 is touted commonly as one of the harder games in the franchise for it. Adding a few more training wheels does nothing to the core loop of "figure out the type weakness and mash the powerful move a few times".
>that there is virtually no chance for failure and thus even the bare minimum of satisfaction or accomplishment
You're probably the anon from that other thread, right? I'll ask you again. Doesn't that just imply earlier games had only the smallest amount of satisfaction and accomplishment? Why even play Pokemon then if you feel that way?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:02:34 No.53778069 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777963
>Pokemon's never used difficulty in the same overt method as something like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter or Megaman or whatever, but earlier games did require more effort and at least an iota of thought. It's not a binary, it's a scale, and while it was always low, challenge still existed in some capacity. A hyper casual gamer would realistically lose to Whitney, for example, if they just mashed A through the game. But newer generations (mainly 6-8) are so intensely paranoid of the player becoming stuck, or frustrated, or anything at all that would indicate challenge that the devs have added extra training wheels on top of training wheels throughout and in so many different places, that even the most basic dopamine driving tricks are just rendered meaningless. The games are SO easy, and SO hand holdy that there is virtually no chance for failure and thus even the bare minimum of satisfaction or accomplishment is stripped away.

Excellently worded. I'm sick of the gaslighting, bad faith shitposting, and revisionism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:03:46 No.53778071 Report

Quoted By: >>53778138 >>53778193

>>53778059
>Gen 7 is touted commonly as one of the harder games in the franchise for it
I've literally never heard this before

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:10:09 No.53778123 Report

Quoted By: >>53778185

>>53777831
I've actually been working on my own homebrew for this exact fucking reason. All the existing attempts are way too complicated. I developed mine and playtested it with some groups a few times and it was nice and fast and smooth. Pokemon isn't incompatible. People just keep trying to make it more pokemon game than tabletop. Who give ls a fuck about EVs and Nature's and shit??

Pokemon Tabletop should be as close as possible to other popular systems with a little spin on it so players can understand and play it faster. PTU and the other systems are so fucking shit because even playing with just 2 players is an absolute fucking nightmare slog when combat starts. It's Pokemon, damage should be high and fast since you have more than one character to use. I'm actually considering doing videos detailing what I've done so far and explaining my system. I've got pretty much all Pokemon and Moves set up from gen 1-2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:10:42 No.53778126 Report

Quoted By: >>53778138

>>53778059
>gen 7 is xer standard of difficulty
>muh totem battles are le hard! MOOOMMMA!
Seriously, nigga?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:14:05 No.53778138 Report

Quoted By: >>53778154

>>53778071
>>53778126
Do you guys live under a rock or something? Only people with an axe to grind playing by arbitrary self imposed challenges think the old gens are harder, not that anon btw

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:18:33 No.53778154 Report

Quoted By: >>53778163 >>53778177 >>53778255 >>53778407

>>53778138
I've played all of these games and they become notably easier starting with X and Y. I'm pretty sure after Omega and Alpha there was a developer interview where they said the lower difficulty was deliberate to make the game more appealing to a younger audience

I think the only thing in the new games comparable to the old ones is Necrozma, but it's a 6v1 and that same game also gives you X-omniboosts and Z-moves

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:20:00 No.53778163 Report

Quoted By: >>53778169 >>53778171 >>53778399 >>53778688

>>53778154
>I've played all of these games and they become notably easier starting with the game I didn't grow up with
Have you tried actually replaying them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:22:01 No.53778169 Report

Quoted By: >>53778177

>>53778163
No, I have better games to play. I binged them all back during covid though

This image implies my experience isn't unique and you're really mad about that so I guess I'm right

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:22:42 No.53778171 Report

Quoted By: >>53778177

>>53778163
Your little strawman deserves no reply as we are talking about Johto, not Unova, smogturd.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:22:52 No.53778175 Report

Quoted By: >>53778195

>>53777647
Yeah. I like most of his stuff, but this wasn't a very good video.
Nothing since the Kirby one was really interesting imo.

That said, everyone here should watch his channel and learn a thing or two.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:23:14 No.53778177 Report

Quoted By: >>53778216

>>53778169
>This image implies my experience isn't unique
Yes, there's more than one Unovafag who gets assblasted and starts being disingenuous whenever anyone implies his game isn't difficult compared to newer games.

>>53778171
>Your little strawman deserves no reply as we are talking about Johto, not Unova
>>53778154
>starting with X and Y

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:23:22 No.53778178 Report

Quoted By: >>53778420 >>53780117

Daily Reminder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:25:02 No.53778184 Report

Quoted By: >>53778196

5 is easier than the prior games but the difference between 5 and 2-4 is way smaller than between 5 and 6+

like the zoomers on this board will tell you with a straight face that the arceus guy is the hardest video game boss ever created when he's like 20 levels below the wild pokemon in the snow area

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:25:20 No.53778185 Report

Quoted By: >>53778300

>>53778123
I swear to god if you're making a 5e clone I'm going to find you and rub an electromagnet all over your hard drive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:25:28 No.53778186 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777877
A mainstay in smash is literally another character created by him.
A latecomer character is from a franchise most people nowadays only give a shit about because of a game made by him.

Also, you're on a board about a game franchise that was made by a single-hit studio.
99% of Pulseman and Quinty's fanbase are people who came from pokemon to check those out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:26:45 No.53778193 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778071
NTA but it was said a few times, specifically refering to USUM though, not SM.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:27:06 No.53778195 Report

Quoted By: >>53778199

>>53778175
Nothing in this video was wrong and it's not about RPGs, it's about in general difficulty curves

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:27:10 No.53778196 Report

Quoted By: >>53780117

>>53778184
>5 is easier than the prior games but the difference between 5 and 2-4 is way smaller than between 5 and 6+
yeah, you're right

gen 7+ is noticeably harder than gen 2-5 so the gap is wider

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:27:55 No.53778199 Report

Quoted By: >>53778206

>>53778195
>Nothing in this video was wrong
Never said there was.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:27:57 No.53778200 Report

Quoted By: >>53778223 >>53778252

Are the people who grew up with Sun and Moon really 18 now? Jesus Christ where does the time go

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:28:32 No.53778206 Report

Quoted By: >>53778224

>>53778199
Then why is it a bad video?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:29:27 No.53778216 Report

Quoted By: >>53778223

>>53778177
>everyone who disagrees with me is the same person

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:30:25 No.53778223 Report

Quoted By: >>53778239

>>53778200
It's ok, anon. Maybe one day you'll figure out an actual way to defend gen 5.

>>53778216
The post literally says there's more than one Unovafag who disagrees with him. You're not very smart, are you ESL?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:30:42 No.53778224 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778206
I said its not interesting, not that its necesarilly bad.
Its a surface analysis that you've probably made if thought for a second about rpgs.
In other instances there's at least an interesting insight based on something he worked on but as he never developed an rpg himself, he's talking from the same place as the audience.
Which is fine, mind you, but he had better material, that's all I'm saying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:30:54 No.53778226 Report

Quoted By:

i used roto-boosts on my totem gumshoos and then just one-shot necrozma with a neutral z-move

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:32:09 No.53778234 Report

Quoted By: >>53778274

i clicked A on my scrafty and I one shot everything in gen 5

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:33:25 No.53778239 Report

Quoted By: >>53778255

>>53778223
I don't care about Gen 5, I just remember people complaining about how these games were too easy back when they came out (and I agreed with them, this is the same game that tells you what moves are super-effective and constantly repeats the same 5 tutorials on the bottom screen)

I don't think anyone mentioned Gen 5 at all but there such visible insecurity about it I'm not convinced you aren't just trying to talk that game up

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:35:31 No.53778252 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778200
2016 was six years ago.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:35:57 No.53778255 Report

Quoted By: >>53778278

>>53778239
>I just remember people complaining about how these games were too easy back when they came out
Just like Gen 5, except unlike Gen 5 there were actually people claiming that the game was more difficult than previous games.

>I don't think anyone mentioned Gen 5 at all
>>53778154
>starting with X and Y

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:38:28 No.53778274 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778234
Ywnbaw, zoomer. You were born in the wrong generation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:39:18 No.53778278 Report

Quoted By: >>53778288 >>53778293 >>53778297 >>53778308 >>53780723

>>53778255
NTA but I'm speeding through X right now for a Xerneas, skipping every single optional trainer, and my Braixen is already higher level than the next gym leader. This is also the same game that gives you a free Mega Lucario (a fucking Uber that's stronger than most boxart legendaries) after only three badges, and the giftmons I've never sent into battle aren't far behind.

X and Y is definitely where it started. You're trying to compare it to Black and White but it would be like if Black and White gave you Zekrom right after you beat the third gym. And then automatically leveled your other Pokemon as you killed everything with Zekrom.

Get outta here lmao.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:41:15 No.53778288 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778278
The 700 BST Mega Latios in ORAS is even worse. Like imagine if in Platinum Arceus just randomly joined your party right after Pastoria

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:41:39 No.53778293 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778278
Nobody denies XY are easy

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:42:06 No.53778297 Report

Quoted By: >>53778310 >>53778348 >>53779521

>>53778278
NTA but I'm speeding through Black right now for a Reshiram, skipping every single optional trainer, and my Scrafty is already higher level than the next gym leader. This is also the same game that gives you a 130 BP STAB (a fucking move that's stronger than most boxart legendary signature moves) after only three badges, and the giftmons I'vre never sent into battle aren't far behind.

Black and White is definitely where it started. Get outta here lmao.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:42:26 No.53778300 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778185
Would you have any suggestions on what you would want to see or not want to see in a tabletop pokemon game? I'm still workshopping and changing things and input is helpful

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:43:44 No.53778308 Report

Quoted By: >>53778352

>>53778278
>XY is easy
>therefore every game after it is easy
>BW is also easier than the previous games but the reduced difficulty didn't actually start with BW because uh....I like it
still not seeing the logic here, Unovatard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:43:59 No.53778310 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778297
>skipping every single optional trainer
different anon but the guy who keeps posting the gif you're referencing does in fact grind against every single trainer

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:46:49 No.53778327 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777599
johto is one big valley, though, with the occasional rock that you stub your toe on. the analogy doesn't really translate

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:49:36 No.53778348 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778297
Yeah, yeah zoomie. We know you have no arguments and can only mimic what others say. Perhaps leaving the phone for a while could help your lacking attention span.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:50:05 No.53778352 Report

Quoted By: >>53778382 >>53778411

>>53778308
I thought you guys were saying XY was actually harder than the old games like a month or two ago? And then anon I responded to quoted X and Y? I can't keep up with every shitpost of the week sorry

8 and 9 are even easier than XY and I remember SM being incredibly tedious and handhold-y as well. I haven't replayed that game since launch but just because you retards always regurgitate the same shitposts about the same braindead talking points I'm going to confidently assume you're wrong regardless

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:54:03 No.53778370 Report

Quoted By: >>53778610

>>53777916
not to mention badge-boosts and the evs your pkmn get. it's always a steam-roll by end-game

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:57:04 No.53778382 Report

Quoted By: >>53778389

>>53778352
>8 and 9 are even easier than XY
Prove it.

>And I remember SM being incredibly tedious and handhold-y as well
Just like Gen 5, except unlike Gen 5 the actual fights in SM are more challenging.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 17:59:08 No.53778389 Report

Quoted By: >>53778407

>>53778382
No one is arguing gen 5 is harder. In fact, you are derailing the thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:01:24 No.53778399 Report

Quoted By: >>53778407

>>53778163
I replayed every game Gen 3 and onwards in the last two years. That anon is right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:03:20 No.53778407 Report

Quoted By: >>53778451 >>53778501

>>53778389
>No one is arguing gen 5 is harder
>>53778154
>they become notably easier starting with X and Y

>>53778399
I replayed every game Gen 1 and onwards in the last one year. That anon is wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:03:52 No.53778411 Report

Quoted By: >>53778580

>>53778352
>8 and 9 are even easier than XY
The absolute desperation to shit on every element of dex cut games makes me automatically discount all your opinions. Nothing is as easy as XY

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:06:24 No.53778420 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778178
Too many Johotomons in the last third.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:13:31 No.53778451 Report

Quoted By: >>53778461

>>53778407
Everyone knows nu pokémon begins with XY. That's not saying ONLY gen 5 is harder, you strawmanning imbecile, it simply means gens 1-5 as a whole are harder. Which anyone with a pair of functioning neurons can see for themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:15:00 No.53778461 Report

Quoted By: >>53778504

>>53778451
>it simply means gens 1-5 as a whole are harder
Why are you lumping in Gen 5 when Gen 5 is already easier than Gen 1-4? Why are you still unable to disprove Gen 7 is harder than every Gen 1-5 game?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:22:17 No.53778501 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778407
>hurr I'll just mimic what they say
Lol, how assmad can you get?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:22:57 No.53778504 Report

Quoted By: >>53778507

>>53778461
>Why are you still unable to disprove Gen 7 is harder than every Gen 1-5 game?
Prove anything to a dude who's been trolling the entire with strawman memes? Someone who can only mimic what others say and call it a day? Someone who thinks moving the goalposts is "an argument"? Someone who had a hard time beating gen 7? Good luck finding someone stupid enough to engage with your pointless bait.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:24:29 No.53778507 Report

Quoted By: >>53778889 >>53779633

>>53778504
Man, it sure is funny how this post still doesn't have an actual argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:34:09 No.53778541 Report

Quoted By:

Sakurai is a hack

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:35:38 No.53778551 Report

Quoted By:

>E-Celeb thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:41:18 No.53778580 Report

Quoted By: >>53778612

>>53778411
SwSh gives you every legendary at level 70 before the first gym. You don't even fight them with your own Pokemon, you use level 70 rentals

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:46:58 No.53778610 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778370
Honestly it starts way earlier. The literal singular advantage the AI ever has over you is that in the early game they might have some Pokemon or moves you don't. Around the second or third gym in every game, that stops, and then you have as good or better tools than the AI on top of all your advantages (shift mode, unlimited items, a varied team, the ability to level up or customize up your team as much as you want, etc.) Like Sakurai even points out in the video that level scaling is dangerous because you risk lacking a feeling of growth but in Pokemon enemies start off pretty weak compared to you and you become exponentially more powerful.
But whatever this thread quickly descended into genwar territory anyway so I guess this doesn't even matter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:47:05 No.53778612 Report

Quoted By: >>53778872

>>53778580
Sorry I am talking about the game when it released not intentionally losing to a trainer to abuse DLC a year later

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 18:57:51 No.53778688 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778163
I replay the first two gens pretty regularly, and their restrictions definitely add some difficulty. Movesets are generally poor, you have to carry at least some HMs, and the physical/special thing means sometimes your dudes just aren't the right typing for their stats. GF never really made trainers difficult enough to compensate as they loosened up these restrictions, so it's mostly that the battles remain the same, but the player is noticeably stronger

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 19:21:47 No.53778829 Report

Quoted By: >>53778833 >>53778871 >>53778900

>>53777884
>>53777936
super smash bros is the only good game he directed, and it was pure luck, the s.oytendo market had yet to fill the fighting game niche
kirby is garbage and so is the rest

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 19:22:51 No.53778833 Report

Quoted By: >>53778871

>>53778829
>kirby is garbage
Don't you have a reseteranny thread to be posting in right now? I'm sure you'll become a woman if you keep repeating that you are one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 19:29:16 No.53778871 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778829
>and it was pure luck
Sure, he just stumbled upon a complete super smash bros in the wild and decided to sell it.
what a lucky man.
Also >>53778833

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 19:29:24 No.53778872 Report

Quoted By: >>53779842

>>53778612
Yes, I am sure you are correct if you deliberately avoid playing parts of the game that aren't gated in any way in order to intentionally reduce how ridiculously broken the game is.

Also on release I accidentally fully evolved my starter before the first gym because I was trying to figure out how raids worked and didn't know how strong exp candies were

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 19:33:55 No.53778889 Report

Quoted By: >>53778894 >>53779462

>>53778507
Calling out your logical flaws is an argument. It tells others to not waste your time with you so it is ethic, too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 19:34:56 No.53778894 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778889
*their time

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 19:35:11 No.53778895 Report

Quoted By:

the people who say gen 7 is actually hard cannot be proven wrong because there isn't a single person in the world who actually wants to replay that shitheap

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 19:36:20 No.53778900 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778829
here you can witness the typical bort engaging in "her" favorite pastime: coping

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 20:01:54 No.53779035 Report

Quoted By: >>53779450

Sakurai? The guy that has a difficulty slider and random stat upgrades in Uprising and Smash? The only times he dabbled in level curces, he fucked it up

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 21:01:07 No.53779450 Report

Quoted By:

>>53779035
GF can't even give us a proper difficulty toggle. Thanks for proving the guy is more reliable than Ohmori and co.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 21:02:32 No.53779462 Report

Quoted By: >>53779633

>>53778889
Man, it sure is funny how this post still doesn't have an actual argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 21:10:03 No.53779521 Report

Quoted By: >>53779633

>>53778297
that's so funny and cynical you sarcastically repeated his post verbatim but changed the game
not mad at all

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 21:13:34 No.53779546 Report

Quoted By: >>53779677

Why does Unova cause so much ass pain?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 21:27:14 No.53779633 Report

Quoted By: >>53779644

>>53778507
>>53779462
Concession accepted.

>>53779521
You won't get a honest reply, zoomie is so mad his nu grabo got called out he's now trying to deflect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 21:29:44 No.53779644 Report

Quoted By: >>53779687

>>53779633
>Concession accepted.
Concession for what? You never actually made an argument to defend Gen 5.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 21:36:50 No.53779677 Report

Quoted By: >>53779784 >>53780519

>>53779546
It's just one butthurt XY fan who likes to derail threads, done as such here

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 21:38:31 No.53779687 Report

Quoted By:

>>53779644
No discussion will be held with a little strawmanning zoomie who will move the goalposts yet again. Go watch a gen 7 playthrough, perhaps you'll beat Gumshoos this time around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:02:26 No.53779783 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777649
you typed more than the repliers did so your bait failed

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:03:31 No.53779784 Report

Quoted By: >>53779953

>>53779677
This, Kalostard is a well known thread derailer here, get used to him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:12:23 No.53779828 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777611
Imagine being this retarded
>>53777649
>I-I-I-I was just pretending to be retarded...heh...
Nice try retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:13:14 No.53779831 Report

Quoted By: >>53779869

>>53777599
Okay, so pay attention to the part where he says that there should be areas that allow players to powerlevel.
Not that it's necessary to beat the game, but that's the one thing it completely lacks.
It also should not have a flat line for such an extended period, to say nothing of the entirety of Kanto.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:15:44 No.53779842 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778872
>Wow I am sure Gen 1-4 is hard if you deliberately play badly by not funneling xp to the starter
>Wow I am sure Gen V is hard if you intentionally avoid all audinos and don't use the lucky egg
>You literally can't make Gen VI hard
>Wow I iam sure Gen VII is hard if you turn off the xp share and also don't funnel xp to your starter and don't use any dark type Pokemon

It goes on forever dude nobody gives a shit that you "can" break these games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:22:33 No.53779869 Report

Quoted By: >>53779933

>>53779831
>but that's the one thing it completely lacks
Play the games. The literal only battle in the whole game that lacks a decent place to grind for it is Clair, most other points in the game have reliable grinding spots if you know where to look

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:31:01 No.53779910 Report

Quoted By:

Haven't watched the video, I assume it's about how easier difficulty can represent different things. Chrono Trigger does this excellently for example. It's why I don't complain about Jasmine and only slightly complain about Kanto, there's lore reasons why those parts of the game are the way they are. Even the lack of level discrepancy between Chuck and Pryce has a functional reason, it's just that in that specific case that has a negative impact on the rest of the game in a way that isn't terribly fun. The Jasmine example would be a small dip otherwise for a type that could otherwise be a wall for players, and the Kanto examples do somewhat make leveling new Pokemon in Kanto a pain for the benefit of keeping in line with previous lore while also providing the player with a bit of a power trip boss rush, but with the non-linearity before the Rocket takover not really providing any benefit while also making the rest of the game worse it Gen 2's only major objective flaw. It's not like Gen 2 shied away from arbitrary roadblocks related to Mahogany anyway, why not have boxes of RAGECANDYBAR blocking the way in before you clear the lighthouse event, that way you have a little story going on with the roadblocks and you get to explore Mt. Morar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:31:43 No.53779913 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777599
>Johtrannies now have to cite hackurai to defend their games
Sad state of affairs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:34:33 No.53779933 Report

Quoted By:

>>53779869
Kanto also lacks them in general, and with a few new Pokemon you could want to add to your team it's a bit of an issue. It's not tremendously bad or anything, but it's just enough of a pain that it does matter. Thankfully Kanto is short and if you want to add new Pokemon to your team before Red then Mt. Silver is just fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:38:21 No.53779953 Report

Quoted By: >>53779959 >>53780005 >>53780098

>>53779784
>tfw genuinely like XY but Kalostard has singlehandedly ruined good faith discussion of the game through sheer autism alone

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:39:44 No.53779959 Report

Quoted By: >>53780048

>>53779953
What do you like about it aside from the online? The online aspect is really solid, although I think ORAS utilized it a lot better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:47:49 No.53779991 Report

Quoted By: >>53780001

>I’m going to start genwars constantly blaming gen 6-8 for gen 5’s problems out of nowhere
>but it’s the kalosfags who derail the threads, not me, trust me bros

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:49:45 No.53780001 Report

Quoted By:

>>53779991
Oh look, it's the lowcaps ESL who self inserts as Ash in the XY anime, what a fucking loser

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:50:34 No.53780005 Report

Quoted By: >>53780040

>>53779953
NTA but XY for me did a ton of things right, I liked the route/level design, loved the music, loved all the new stuff it brought like customization and berry farming and Super Training, etc. While it's harder to believe now, the introduction of megas was unbelievably hype and the 2013 CoroCoro leaks were by far the best this board has ever been. Yes, the story and difficulty are the weakest parts and the game possesses tons of minor flaws that all could have potentially been fixed with a third version but the games themselves weren't and shouldn't have become as reviled as they are today. I honestly think that if not for this board's weird focus on difficulty in a historically easy as hell franchise a lot of that could have been avoided, too.
Should also say to show I'm not the shitposter that I generally like all Pokemon games, all of them have their weaknesses but all have strengths that mostly outweigh them. I don't think XY was a step up from BW but I don't think it was much of if at all a step down

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 22:59:39 No.53780040 Report

Quoted By: >>53780055

>>53780005
>map design
Arguably the weakest in the series, but then I remember that the second island of Gen 7 exists, and I do really like the Lost Hotel segment, so maybe I shouldn't complain.
>music
I want to blame the soundfont over the composition for me not remembering XY's soundtrack, or maybe that Hitomi Sato didn't do a lot outside of jingles and I'm a big fan of her work in Gen 5 and 7
>customization
Dressup is cool for people who like it. I do not.
>berry farming
I don't know if I like it preferred to Gen 3, but I didn't like the mulch shit from Gen 4, and the Dream World requirement in Gen 5 is really unfortunate
>Super Training
The fucked thing is that regular EV training is much better in Gen 6 because of hordes
>hype season
I can't really take that experience away from you, but going back to the games without that will definitely effect people's opinions in general
But I get you, all reasonable opinions, unlike those fucking losers who spend all day arguing about shit they seem to not even care about that much given how terrible their arguments are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 23:01:23 No.53780048 Report

Quoted By:

>>53779959
Granted these are highly subjective, I don't think XY is anything above average objectively, but:
>I liked having a high amount of new Pokemon to catch in each route
>I liked how the battle backgrounds looked, there were versions for very specific areas too, with multiple versions each for time of day
>French aesthetic
>Shauna
>Yveltal is pretty cool
>overall like the Kalos dex, some of my overall favorites come from it (Malamar, Florges, Slurpuff)
>Amie was based, fuck you Game Freak let me pet my Pokemon again. Give me back the minigames too
>Super Training was very straightforward with gaining EVs, even if not optimal
>loved the PSS, as previously stated, fuck you Game Freak give it back
>somehow the postgame episode with Looker and the hobo girl did get me in the feels somewhat
I think that covers it. Again, subjective.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1661140179038905.jpg, 2MiB, 1896x7184

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 23:02:13 No.53780055 Report

Quoted By: >>53780064

>>53780040
>map design
>Arguably the weakest in the series
Should I bother reading the rest of this post, or is the rest of it just going to be more baseless "it's bad because I said so" garbage that Unovafags like to repeat?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 23:04:58 No.53780064 Report

Quoted By:

>>53780055
>the ice puzzle that doesn't even work right
>one of the best routes in the game
>shitty lost woods and an extremely basic route
>Lumiose, the worst city in the franchise
And yet all of that is still better than Alola's second island, I don't know how they botched that

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 23:11:58 No.53780098 Report

Quoted By:

>>53779953
I’m the anon you responded to, I actually like XY well enough too but still hate on them on here pretty much exclusively to spite kalostard, so don’t take it personally.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO FixedSinnoh.png, 531KiB, 1276x1436

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 23:16:18 No.53780117 Report

Quoted By: >>53780180

>>53778178
>NOOO! FALKNER USES A NORMAL FLYING TYPE EARLY BIRD MON WHEN HE SHOULD BE USING A NORMAL FLYING TYPE EARLY BIRD MON! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
>>53778196
I've played since Pokemon blue and I agree that gen 7 early game is harder than most. I don't think it's a hard game overall though...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 May 2023 23:26:12 No.53780180 Report

Quoted By:

>>53780117
All of those pokemon are still found in Sinnoh. You have no excuse for Johtomons like Houndour, Murkrow, Slugma etc being exclusive to Kanto.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 11 May 2023 00:14:27 No.53780480 Report

Quoted By:

>>53777599
Yes, I'm sure Mr. Sakurai would agree that gen 2's plateaus of low difficulty go on for far too long to be entertaining.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 11 May 2023 00:21:47 No.53780519 Report

Quoted By:

>>53779677
XY are also dogshit, but they're continuations of all the dogshit Shitnova has going on. Every problem bitched about in Gens 6 and onward has its roots in gen 5.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 11 May 2023 01:08:54 No.53780723 Report

Quoted By:

>>53778278
> but it would be like if Black and White gave you Zekrom right after you beat the third gym. And then automatically leveled your other Pokemon as you killed everything with Zekrom.
Not that far off from what BW actually does, honestly. Right after the 3rd gym is the desert where everything you can capture there makes the rest of the game a joke.

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