/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #53863102

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Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:49:55 No.53863102 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>53863113 >>53863136 >>53863161 >>53863194 >>53863293 >>53863349 >>53863354 >>53863373 >>53863392 >>53863782 >>53864311 >>53866054 >>53866754 >>53867563

>no EV IV Nature bullshit
>soulful art and sprites
>no kimono girl chosen one plot
>no 100000 HMs
>no grinding needed until you can fight Red
the best way to experience Johto
>b-but my walking pokemans
play Cockslayer's Crystal Congo hack if you care that much

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:51:51 No.53863113 Report

Quoted By: >>53863126 >>53863129 >>53863141 >>53863163

>>53863102
>>no 100000 HMs
gen 2 is what started the excessive amount of hms
rock smash is arguable but whirlpool and waterfall were mistakes

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:53:04 No.53863120 Report

Quoted By:

>bro just play some goofy ass hack frfr no cap
I hate zoomers. Modding an old game to make is less shit does not make you special.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:54:13 No.53863126 Report

Quoted By: >>53863162 >>53865198

>>53863113
both are useful in battle, go pronebone ur charizard cuz making move choices breaks ur zoomer brain

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:54:25 No.53863129 Report

Quoted By: >>53863162 >>53863459

>>53863113
Waterfall is a great move on its own but I can't argue with whirpool being a mistake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:55:42 No.53863136 Report

Quoted By: >>53863160

>>53863102
>>no EV IV Nature bullshit
Non issue unless you’re retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:56:31 No.53863141 Report

Quoted By: >>53863159 >>53863162

the kimono girl questline is the same as suicune's questline, they just handed suicine's role over to these random NPCs and made it mandatory to progress the game
>>53863113
>rock smash
is not an HM in gen 2

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:59:34 No.53863159 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863141
>the kimono girl questline is the same as suicune's questline
>except the first one is mandatory and the second is not
That's precisely the point

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:59:35 No.53863160 Report

Quoted By: >>53863320

>>53863136
It's an issue if you care at all about the game beyond the mechanics (which if you don't why are you even playing Pokemon)
I hate knowing that my Pokémon is extremely shit compared to others of its species, it adds nothing to the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:59:41 No.53863161 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863102
>no EV IV Nature bullshit
Wrong
>Instead of EVs you have stat experience, which while you don't need to micromanage to get the right build it takes a lot more grinding to max
>Instead of IVs you have DVs which are the exact same thing but with smaller numbers
>It doesn't fucking matter in the main story in any Pokemon game anyway, unless you're doing some ridiculous challenge in which case grinding will probably do more of the heavy lifting anyway
Unless you're talking about competitive, then enjoy Curselax I guess (that's not sarcastic, enjoy whatever meta you like)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:59:42 No.53863162 Report

Quoted By: >>53863193

>>53863126
>>53863129
Waterfall existing isn't the issue. The issue is the fact you now have to use two HM slots on your water type just so you can travel up the one mandatory waterfall. Waterfall was just the HM that blocked the league.
>>53863141
>not a HM
>has the exact same functionality
Should've stayed that way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 20:59:50 No.53863163 Report

Quoted By: >>53865191

>>53863113
You only need whirlpool once for progression, and twice for dex completion. Same for Waterfall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:03:46 No.53863193 Report

Quoted By: >>53863390

>>53863162
>>has the exact same functionality
you can forget it and it's not needed to progress the game at any point. are dig and teleport also HMs to you

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:04:13 No.53863194 Report

Quoted By: >>53863217

>>53863102
>no EV IV Nature bullshit
Immediately wrong. Impressive

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:08:53 No.53863217 Report

Quoted By: >>53863239 >>53863273

>>53863194
DVs and stat experience are very different
DVs have a smaller impact and you can't raise stat experience unoptimally

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:11:42 No.53863239 Report

Quoted By: >>53863273

>>53863217
DVs have the same impact as IVs, but with 2 fewer variables.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:14:38 No.53863254 Report

Quoted By:

DVs are the same shit as IVs and stat exp is relatively benign, compared to EVs. Invisible stats that the game never tells you exist are always dogshit design, but at least with stat exp you can't just ruin a Pokemon because wiggling your left foot at 3pm on a wednesday caused baphomet to curse you with bad stats

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:18:25 No.53863273 Report

Quoted By: >>53863282

>>53863217
See>>53863239 then add literally 10* longer grind to cap stat experience that ultimately results in a stallfest meta since everyone has capped defense

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:19:52 No.53863278 Report

Quoted By: >>53863286

DVs were definitely better than IVs. 1-15 vs 1-31, the spread was smaller and the impact of not giving a fuck was less of a difference objectively speaking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:20:04 No.53863282 Report

Quoted By: >>53863287 >>53863308 >>53863754

>>53863273
everyone has capped offense too, at least everyone doesn't automatically heal on switchout and then ignore hazards when they come back in

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:20:54 No.53863286 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863278
Sorry, 0-15 vs 0-31, forgot there were zeroed out stats too

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:20:58 No.53863287 Report

Quoted By: >>53863306

>>53863282
>everyone has capped offense too
Maxed out HP along with a defense stat more than cancels out the boost in an offensive stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:22:02 No.53863293 Report

Quoted By: >>53863319

>>53863102
>>no EV IV Nature bullshit
This really got the spergs riled up. It's an objectively correct statement, but they literally cannot resist the urge to go "UMMM ACKSHUALLY... TECHNICALLY SPEAKING..."

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:24:16 No.53863306 Report

Quoted By: >>53863322

>>53863287
it is literally a static increase to all stats. maxed HP has less of a marginal impact than maxing other stats because the scaled part (without evs / stat exp) uses a different formula and reaches a higher value but still recieves a static increase

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:24:25 No.53863308 Report

Quoted By: >>53863378

>>53863282
You have clearly no idea what you are talking about and it shows. Capped offense is double negated by maxed defenses

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:25:59 No.53863319 Report

Quoted By: >>53863335

>>53863293
>It's an objectively correct statement,
Its objectively not a correct statement except natures

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:26:06 No.53863320 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863160
>I hate knowing that my Pokémon is extremely shit compared to others of its species, it adds nothing to the game
Right, only an issue if you’re retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:26:32 No.53863322 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863306
It's an increase to all stats, but having both HP and defense with investment gives a way larger boost. Just take this example, it's the same as it would be in gen 1 & 2.
>0 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 97-115 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
>252 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Manaphy: 97-115 (24 - 28.4%) -- 96.9% chance to 4HKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:29:06 No.53863335 Report

Quoted By: >>53863361

>>53863319
DVs and IVs are not the same, they have different spreads. EVs and Stat exp worked differently. They aren't the same mechanics which is why they're named differently to differentiate between them. Both of these things meant less spergery was required when building a decent team. Of course, the autists who make up the majority of this board will insist otherwise to defend the sheer amount of time they've wasted on the modern competitive mechanics in between circlejerking in the latest waifu threads.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:31:29 No.53863349 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863102
>no abilities
>no special/physical split
>only a handful of berries that you can only get form one specific tree once per day
>most of kurts special apricorn balls aren't even coded correctly
yeah i'll stick to gen 4.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:32:16 No.53863354 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863102
>>no EV IV Nature bullshit
DVs and Stat Exp. are the same fucking thing you retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:33:47 No.53863361 Report

Quoted By: >>53863781

>>53863335
Anon again it takes more time to grind stat exp than fully grind a pokemon in modern games

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:35:24 No.53863373 Report

Quoted By: >>53863381

>>53863102
>play Cockslayer's Crystal Congo hack
I will when he releases the source code and stops being a nigger

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:36:18 No.53863378 Report

Quoted By: >>53863391 >>53863394 >>53863401

>>53863308
you're clearly retarded if you think gsc ou converging to stall is because of stat exp and not due to the lack of
a) 1.5x damage items
b) stacking hazards
c) automatic infinite dot
d) abilities and field effects (90% of the time this just boosts damage under X condition)
e) offensive power creep while average defenses have been relatively stagnant since gen 1
f) attack/setup movepool distribution

gen 1 has stat exp and you don't see that gen being full of stall. because, shocker, everyone holding only leftovers and always packing a full heal move that can't be offensively punished tends to slow down games

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:36:32 No.53863381 Report

Quoted By: >>53863389

>>53863373
There's already someone figuring out following mons, so we'll be able to just recreate the game from scratch at this point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:37:33 No.53863389 Report

Quoted By: >>53863395

>>53863381
I know some people have been working on reverse engineering it. Once it is fixed and the OCs are out I'll play crystal again

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:37:35 No.53863390 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863193
>are dig and teleport also HMs to you
Why would they be?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:37:35 No.53863391 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863378
Everything in GSC takes more damage than any later gen.
But the real reason why those games go on forever is because Rest doesn't fail if the user is already asleep.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:37:36 No.53863392 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863102
Stat exp is 5x more grindy than evs and leaves no room for customization you mong

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:38:34 No.53863394 Report

Quoted By: >>53863403

>>53863378
Gen 1 would have been a stallfest if para wasn't so obscenely broken and rest talk was a thing

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:38:36 No.53863395 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863389
There's no need to even reverse engineer it. Drop the following mons into Crystal, remove the HM roadblocks, and let players select a starting town.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:39:31 No.53863399 Report

Quoted By:

my wife :D

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:39:34 No.53863401 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863378
Sounds like a pretty good case to not play gen 2

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:39:56 No.53863403 Report

Quoted By: >>53863412

>>53863394
The crits and freeze putting you out of commission for the rest of the game play a big part in how volatile gen 1's metagame is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:41:20 No.53863412 Report

Quoted By: >>53863645

>>53863403
Yeah gen 1 gonna gen 1. It would be interesting to see a somewhat "balanced" gen 1

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:45:25 No.53863435 Report

Quoted By: >>53863446

the point is that gsc would still play the exact same way regardless of stat exp and simplifying it down to fingerpointing at a single mechanic in a game you haven't played is retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:47:58 No.53863446 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863435
That's every pokemon game though

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 21:49:35 No.53863459 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863129
Slight note: Waterfall doesn't have a chance to flinch in gen 2, So it's shitter surf in Crystal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 22:15:20 No.53863577 Report

Quoted By:

How many threads do you need?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 22:30:59 No.53863645 Report

Quoted By: >>53863741

>>53863412
>It would be interesting to see a somewhat "balanced" gen 1
Stadium 1

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 22:52:02 No.53863741 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863645
>every status is still wildly OP
No

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 22:55:15 No.53863754 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863282
Yeah everyone has capped offense but attack moves take into account two different defensive stats, def/spdef and hp. So when both are maxxed out for every single pokemon you can imagine it turns some battles into slogfests even uf you arent facing stall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 23:02:59 No.53863781 Report

Quoted By: >>53865712 >>53866370 >>53867303

>>53863361
And you barely notice it taking longer because it's passively included in leveling up a Pokemon. EV's meanwhile can be assigned improperly and thus fuck up a Pokemon's growth. This is ignorable in the main game but it results in a weaker Pokemon and can genuinely frustrate people once they understand the system and thus cause them to want to reset their EV's. This leads to more time spent getting berries then fighting the "correct" Pokemon to get the spread you desire.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Meh.png, 141KiB, 614x645

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 23:04:02 No.53863782 Report

Quoted By: >>53863935

>>53863102
>still no Mareep

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 May 2023 23:40:53 No.53863935 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863782
Mareep more like marape

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO cope.png, 2MiB, 1920x1080

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 01:44:33 No.53864311 Report

Quoted By: >>53865096 >>53865203

>>53863102
Gen 2 sucks lol

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO cope.png, 2MiB, 1920x1080

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 05:03:11 No.53865096 Report

Quoted By: >>53865113 >>53865203

>>53864311

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1632101529070.png, 132KiB, 795x700

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 05:07:30 No.53865113 Report

Quoted By:

>>53865096

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 05:28:45 No.53865191 Report

Quoted By: >>53865960

>>53863163
If you only need it once, why even make it an HM? Just gimme some key item to a guy blocking the way or something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 05:30:41 No.53865198 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863126
>whirpool
>useful in battle
KEK

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 05:31:45 No.53865203 Report

Quoted By: >>53865226

>>53864311
>>53865096
so this is what this God forsaken Hell hole has degraded into

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 05:34:57 No.53865215 Report

Quoted By: >>53865373 >>53866275

Has this board really sunk to squealing like a raped pig over whether IVs and DVs are the same or different?
Goddamn you mouth breathers are the lolcows of 4chan

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 05:38:12 No.53865226 Report

Quoted By:

>>53865203
>no u
>implying this is anything new

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 06:21:47 No.53865373 Report

Quoted By:

>>53865215
do you often rape pigs

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 09:17:15 No.53865712 Report

Quoted By: >>53866180

>>53863781
That's exactly it. They just kept adding stuff that made team building even more of a chore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 11:30:27 No.53865960 Report

Quoted By:

>>53865191
Because that's boring.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 12:09:35 No.53866054 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863102
i liked encountering and helping the kimono girls.
it was just the chosen one part that was cringe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 12:49:25 No.53866180 Report

Quoted By: >>53866374

>>53865712
They've tried to add QoL that cuts down on the workload since Gen 6 without adding any more notable grindy subsystems (Gen 4 and 5 added QoL but Gen 5 added Hidden Abilities which were/are their own chore to get), but I think it just goes to show the systems weren't good in the first place if they needed this level of 'fixing' to make tolerable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 13:20:11 No.53866275 Report

Quoted By:

>>53865215
They serve the same purpose but the granularity makes them different. A range of 0 to 15 is smaller than a range of 0 to 31.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 13:43:32 No.53866370 Report

Quoted By: >>53866679

>>53863781
The Pokemon you use ingame are invariably going to be shit for competitive in the old games, unless you spend a thousand hours RNG manipulating for nothing but perfect DVs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 13:45:16 No.53866374 Report

Quoted By:

>>53866180
The systems were fine in the context of a singleplayer game- everyone had Pokemon with different stats, even if they were at different levels. And you were rewarded for actively battling with your Pokemon instead of going the easy route of using rare candies. But the series has been straying further and further from being an RPG, and is putting even more focus on just making Pokemon a competitive pvp game with an amusement park ride you need to go on first.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 15:01:20 No.53866679 Report

Quoted By: >>53866691

>>53866370
So instead of just tying DV's to Hidden Power over stats and thus making every Pokemon usable in comp, they decided to add three layers of garbage to jump through for a good competitive Pokemon. Good job Game Freak, you made it worse. However, this isn't just competitive but high end singleplayer in the form of all the Battle Tower clones and the Frontier as well. You can get by with suboptimal IV's there, but you absolutely need to have your EV's, Ability if you have more than one, and Natures set up properly.

Frankly fuck competitive in the first place, it's always garbage and it's always cancer, but the argument that the Gen 3+ systems made competitive better falls flat on its face when you realize you have to also put in more work to get the team set up in addition to not being able to control IV's reliably until Gen 6.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 15:03:34 No.53866691 Report

Quoted By: >>53866711

>>53866679
IVs have a purpose in making each Pokemon you catch different, and it fills this purpose well in singleplayer. It only becomes a problem when you need to start caring about minmaxing your stats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 15:07:53 No.53866711 Report

Quoted By:

>>53866691
Or you could just use the personality system they added anyways instead of forcing players to jump through hoops for a good Pokemon. Nobody cares that your Charmander has 2 more Attack but mine has 1 more Speed and Special Defense unless you're playing comp. "Oh it makes every Pokemon unique and special by changing their stats!" is a cope for a very specific wavelength of autism that's both autistic enough to care about a minor stat shuffle but not autistic enough to play competitively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 15:18:00 No.53866754 Report

Quoted By:

>>53863102
>no 100000 HMs
>t. never finished Crystal

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Oh-Ho.png, 5KiB, 300x300

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 17:02:09 No.53867282 Report

Quoted By: >>53867318

unfortuntely they did not fix this sprite coloring error with these two feathers of ho-oh's being red instead of green, causing the game to be ruined

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 17:05:37 No.53867303 Report

Quoted By: >>53867544

>>53863781
>EV's meanwhile can be assigned improperly and thus fuck up a Pokemon's growth
This is true in Ruby/Sapphire/Firered/Leafgreen only, Emerald fixed it with the EV removing berries

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 17:08:20 No.53867318 Report

Quoted By:

>>53867282
I never noticed that error before. I've now fixed it in my rom hack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 17:50:54 No.53867544 Report

Quoted By:

>>53867303
the EV berries are unobtainable in BW1, and extremely slow to farm in HGSS and BW2

emerald also can't grow berries on retail anymore so this literally only works for DPP and then a bunch of games that aren't eveb worth playing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 17:53:58 No.53867563 Report

Quoted By: >>53867617

>>53863102
>no grinding needed until you can fight Red
If you need to grind for that you shouldn't be playing the games
>no EV IV Nature bullshit
No, instead you have a horrendously slow hatching and just completely uncontrollable stats, and a huge amount of grinding to max out your stat exp in a game that doesn't enable good ways to farm in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 May 2023 18:05:02 No.53867617 Report

Quoted By:

>>53867563
>just completely uncontrollable stats
t. never played the fucking games

1/512 chance of hatching a perfect IV pokemon in gen 2 against a 1/1.07 billion chance of hatching it in gen 3/4

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