/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #54289435

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Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:28:26 No.54289435 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>54289449 >>54289547 >>54289709 >>54289727 >>54289797 >>54289992 >>54290104 >>54290238 >>54293316 >>54294183

Why did they design so many poison types for Gen 1?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:30:15 No.54289449 Report

Quoted By: >>54290216

>>54289435
Kanto is polluted

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:30:23 No.54289450 Report

Quoted By: >>54289465 >>54289577 >>54289602 >>54291150

Because GameFreak didn't have any idea what they were doing, and the original intent was not to create 151 viable and useful Pokemon but to create a bunch of JRPG monsters for kids to fight against and buy merch of if they looked cool to them.
The gameplay has literally always been the least important aspect of Pokemon from GF's perspective.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:31:32 No.54289465 Report

Quoted By: >>54289487 >>54289490

>>54289450
But why is Bulbasaur poison type like didn't anyone look at the fact that they had no mono grass types when designing the starters?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:32:18 No.54289476 Report

Quoted By: >>54289499 >>54289556 >>54289606 >>54292330 >>54292485 >>54297119

>not a single jobmon, fursuitmon pr trannymon
How can ee go back?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:33:37 No.54289487 Report

Quoted By: >>54289504 >>54290518 >>54292411

>>54289465
>didn't anyone look at the fact that they had no mono grass types when designing the starters?
You can get Leafeon from Eevee and Tangela.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:33:57 No.54289490 Report

Quoted By: >>54289504 >>54289602

>>54289465
>didn't anyone look at the fact that they had no mono grass types
No. Why would Game Freak have cared about type distribution (a concept that literally only exists in a post-Pokemon metagame society) in their childrens' game intended to sell cards and merchandise?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:35:30 No.54289499 Report

Quoted By: >>54289612

>>54289476
none of those pokemon are popular only bulbusaur

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:35:40 No.54289502 Report

Quoted By:

To eat future, weaker champions

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:36:02 No.54289504 Report

Quoted By: >>54289516

>>54289487
Leafeon didn't exist and yes I forgot about Tangela

>>54289490
Because they had 2 other poison grass type lines and very clearly battling was a priority in their game design since it's the only fucking thing you can do with your pokemon in gen 1

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:37:29 No.54289516 Report

Quoted By: >>54289545 >>54289602

>>54289504
>battling was a priority in their game design
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Only insofar as it moved link cable units and incentivized children to spend their parents' money on redundant cartridges and consoles.
Gen 1 battles are borderline fucking unplayable and the competitive scene emerged entirely by accident in Japan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:41:48 No.54289545 Report

Quoted By: >>54289608

>>54289516
You fucking dingle dong battling your rival is the first thing you do when you get your starter. And saying "my marketable merchandise" is fucking bullshit because Gen 1 is the only game with a first stage starter with 2 types aside from Rowlette because they couldn't justify the owl not flying

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:42:05 No.54289547 Report

Quoted By: >>54289599 >>54289612

>>54289435
types weren't a thing until half way of development, many pokemon even got their types, retroactively, it's not like when they created Rhydon they were thinking "hmmm... let's make a monster with a rock and ground elemental affinity."

their mindset was designing pokemon through a naturalistic approach by giving them a type that fits rather than think of arbitrary rules of type calculus
>design a jellyfish pokemon
it's an aquatic creature that is venomous so let's make it water/poison
>design a wasp pokemon
it's an insect that's venomous so let's make it bug/poison
>design a pitcher plant pokemon
it's a plant full of digestive acid so let's make it grass/poison
>design a sludge monster
it's toxic pollution so let's make it poison

now it's like "we don't have a poison/electric type combo yet, hmmmm there's nothing that comes natural about this how are we gonna shoehorn it? so... huh... poison can be some kind of lizard or amphibean but how do we make it electric? well what if this lizard actually played electric guitar? xD That's brilliant!"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:43:41 No.54289556 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289476
CHARIZAAAAAAARD is a fursuitmon. His numbers on furry sites tell the truth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:46:46 No.54289577 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289450
Basically this.

Also people forget the games were pretty much just single player RPGs where battling other people was a total gimick afterthought

So this is no doubt why Onix is so shit, he's designed to be destroyed by bulba/squirtle but give charmander a hard time, Gamefreak didn't care if he then sucks balls when you catch him, he's just one monster, plenty of other cool ground/rock ones like geodude who actually evolves

So likewise Poison type abundance is probably partly because you're supposed to beat them easily, the game gives you Dig, gives you shit like Nidoking, Psychic is bullshit powerful but especially v Poison, another big clue poison is plentiful but easy to beat is how so many Team Rocket Grunts use poison mons

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:50:20 No.54289599 Report

Quoted By: >>54289664 >>54294209

>>54289547
This doesn't answer his question at all. All you did was changing the question into a more pedantic form. From "why did they design so many poison types in Gen 1?" to "why did they put the Poison typing on so many Pokemons after designing them"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:50:32 No.54289602 Report

Quoted By: >>54289625 >>54289653 >>54292421

>>54289516
>>54289450
>>54289490
Gen 1 fucking flopped on release after years of development hell, and it had fuck-all marketing. They weren't trying to build a media empire, they were trying to make an RPG.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:50:49 No.54289606 Report

Quoted By: >>54290108

>>54289476
>No jobmon
Nidoking is a king
>No fursuitmon
Literally all kaijumons
>No trannymon
Ivysaur

kantofags are so fucking stupid

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:51:16 No.54289608 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289545
>battling your rival
Anon the campaign battles in Gen 1 and all subsequent pokemon games are literally designed for almost illiterate children to win by mashing A. Trainers barely even have functioning AI in Gen 1 and just choose moves almost randomly, and the (only occasionally) implemented AI routine that checks for super-effective moves doesn't know how to account for dual-typing and supereffective moves on a secondary typed Pokemon don't even bring up the supereffective battle text.
Pokemon Gen 1 was made because Satoshi Tajiri and Ken Sugimori met with a bunch of Nintendo execs and said "we can make a killer app JRPG for the Gameboy if you front us the money to fund a bunch of marketing and merch material" and Nintendo, HAL Labs and etc said "fuck it we ball"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:51:50 No.54289612 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289499
And Gengar, maybe Oddish, Nidoking and Beedrill

>>54289547
This dude just laid the Smack Down on the gen 1 spreadsheet autists

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:53:21 No.54289625 Report

Quoted By: >>54289651

>>54289602
>Gen 1 fucking flopped on release after years of development hell, and it had fuck-all marketing
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
R/B/G sold over a million units in Japan in 1996 alone. Kill yourself

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:57:03 No.54289651 Report

Quoted By: >>54289663

>>54289625
>Iwata: I recall that the initial number of units to be shipped was smaller than I’d expected… But even so, I had quite high expectations. With that number of units, I imagined that they'd fly out of the shops and that stock would run dry very quickly. But sadly, that’s wasn’t to be…

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:57:09 No.54289653 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289602
> and it had fuck-all marketing

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:59:33 No.54289663 Report

Quoted By: >>54289670

>>54289651
I don't care about what Iwata may or may not have remembered from some unsourced interview. The game was a million seller within Japan by the end of 1996, and it was outselling fucking Final Fantasy VII in 1997
https://web.archive.org/web/20000301041540/http://headline.gamespot.com/news/98_02/05_japan/index.html
How about you learn to deal with reality instead of whatever cope headcanon you've invented to justify sucking your "smarru indie company"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 21:59:39 No.54289664 Report

Quoted By: >>54291978

>>54289599
I thought I made it clear that there's so many pokemon that are poison because a lot of the monsters they designed happen to be venomous animals, poisonous plants and pollution personified.

maybe there was some wiggle room for a few of those pokemon to not be poison but for the most part they make perfect and it would be wrong for them not to be.
- maybe you could make a point for nidorans to be pure ground but making them venomous gives them a distinctive flair from rhydon/kangaskhan/marowak
- maybe you could make a point for zubat to not be poison but bats are disease spreaders and the only alternative would be for it to be normal/flying which feels just as wrong if not more
- maybe you could make a point for the gengar line to be pure ghost but gastly is a cloud of noxious gas

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:00:33 No.54289670 Report

Quoted By: >>54289679

>>54289663
>by the end of 1996
in other words, it took some time to get there?
you know, in line with what everyone involved has said? that it sold like shit on release and only became a hit after word-of-mouth spread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:01:54 No.54289679 Report

Quoted By: >>54289712

>>54289670
>in other words, it took some time to get there?
No, retard, it didn't sell nothing for 11 months and then sell the full million copies in the last possible week. Stop being logistically retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:02:06 No.54289681 Report

Quoted By:

In gen 1 I always saw like Psychic/Fighting as the "hero" types (humanoid clean looking designs, strong bodies, heroic, smart etc)

And things like Poison/Ghost as the "Villian" types (They're all like ugly frowning mutant monsters, insects or evil spirits) and this is why Team Rocket uses them you always need a horde of generic weak mooks to defeat in any video game

Plus the anime wants you to think using poison types = bad guy

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:06:18 No.54289709 Report

Quoted By: >>54289817

>>54289435
Everyone is wrong, the real reason is because it was the 90s and poisonous creatures were the coolest thing in the world at time. You can tell the first batch of poison types are timeless designs and they have never been matched. They have made great poison types but nothing can match how great they did the first time, making it the type that best represents the first Pokedex.

tldr: poison is king

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:07:24 No.54289712 Report

Quoted By: >>54289757

>>54289679
how stupid do you have to be to not understand that "sold 1 million copies over 10 months" and "sold very poorly on release" are not mutually exclusive?

snips suggester

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snips suggester Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:09:57 No.54289727 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289435
because earthquake needed to be retard strength op in the single player campaign
also because gen 1 was heavily based around bug fighting so a lot of the design was centered around already existing animal traits. traits like big horns, claws, teeth and venom. the only pure poison type mons are a snake, poison gas cloud and pile of toxic waste sludge. the rest are just animals or plants.
the exceptions being the ghosts who needed poison sub typing for balance reasons, and the nidoran lines which are some cool ass poison rabbit dinosaur alien things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:14:09 No.54289757 Report

Quoted By: >>54289770

>>54289712
How stupid do you have to be to understand the sales windows for game being released on handheld consoles in fucking 1996 are much longer than today? Like genuinely, how fucking stupid are you? This was pre-internet, pre-synchronized international releases. The games were entirely intended to sell over a period of multiple YEARS, which is why a multi-year fucking anime and seasonally expanded card game were funded and launched. Plus, you don't seem to comprehend the weight behind the term 'million seller' when discussing retro game releases in the Japanese domestic market; it was virtually unheard of at the time for a new untested franchise to do a million sales domestically and the entire reason that happened was because the games were designed from the word go to push GBs and link cables.
You don't understand any of the context of Pokemon's development and you just accept the fucking Game Freak narrative of 'smarru indie company puhrease undastanderu' because you are ignorant. The largest entertainment media franchise on the planet did not fucking come into existence by accident.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:16:50 No.54289770 Report

Quoted By: >>54289791

>>54289757
>How stupid do you have to be to understand the sales windows for game being released on handheld consoles in fucking 1996 are much longer than today?
People who were directly involved have said they were disappointed in the initial sales numbers and expected the game to do a lot better from the start. They have said that the game's success was due almost entirely to word-of-mouth and to rumors about Mew. It's a textbook example of a sleeper hit.
I didn't read the rest of the post and will not be replying to any further posts you make.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:20:05 No.54289791 Report

Quoted By: >>54289816 >>54289820

>>54289770
>It's a textbook example of a sleeper hit.
No, that's the mythology that the people living on the money printer want to spread for both cultural and optics reasons, which you slurp down because you prefer believing mythologized horseshit in your ignorance. The anime, card game, and other promotional materials and merchandise played an enormous role in the sales of Pokemon from generation 1 onward, as they were always and obviously intended to do and the project was conceived and funded with that multimedia strategy in mind.
I don't care if your reading comprehension prohibits you from finishing my posts, people with greater mental function than yours might actually gain some insight from what I post anyways and it takes extremely little effort to clown on turboretards like you.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:21:24 No.54289797 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289435
Because it's the best type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:23:30 No.54289816 Report

Quoted By: >>54289906

>>54289791
>The anime, card game, and other promotional materials and merchandise played an enormous role in the sales of Pokemon
lmao games that don't do well don't ever get the chance of having an anime, card game and other promotional materials. pokemon was able to have this due to how much of a hit it was

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:23:31 No.54289817 Report

Quoted By: >>54289830 >>54289868

>>54289709
Based and truthpilled. I'd also argue Rock type is the same it has the 90s cool feel, Rock types are fucking DINOSAURS with angry faces, Geodude looks like it should be on a skateboard, you got giant rock snakes and shit. All of this heavily appeals to 10 year old boys

In stark contrast to modern Rock types being "uhh..stonehenge but with a smiley face" faggot shit (Tyrantrum is cool though and belongs in gen 1)

Even while being a Japanese game Pokemon captures the soul of 90s kids media well in Poison and Rock types

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:24:05 No.54289820 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289791
you're wrong Pokemon was a failure early on

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:25:57 No.54289830 Report

Quoted By: >>54289902

>>54289817
Tyrantrum is conceptually / thematically deep, it's not reducible to merely having a cool design

snips suggester

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snips suggester Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:31:52 No.54289868 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289817
>geodude on a skateboard
and rogenrolla on the roll and rocker with a rolling rock

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:38:07 No.54289902 Report

Quoted By: >>54289927

>>54289830
more like thematically cringe. they couldn't help themselves into shoving a fucking human job into what could have been a cool monster

gen 1 does not need a trex, it would be rendundant being that the universe is already full of kaijus that have the classic bipedal dino shape, having the fossils/dna in amber to revive prehistoric creatures added a nice scifi touch to the game and it was the perfect opportunity to feature other prehistoric creatures instead of yet another cliche theropod

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:39:05 No.54289906 Report

Quoted By: >>54289937

>>54289816
>pokemon was able to have this due to how much of a hit it was
Generation 1 released in February 1996 in Japan
The card game launched in October 1996, meaning preproduction started maybe a month or two earlier
The anime launched in April of 1997, meaning preproduction started maybe 3-4 months earlier
The first Pocket Monsters manga dropped in April of 1996, less than TWO MONTHS after the games' release
And that's just the major stuff I can easily research, not talking about the toylines or any other merch.
So you want to simultaneously believe that Pokemon almost failed out of the gate, then sold over a million sales in the 13th hour, and then also had its first major merchandise pushes within 2-6 months and a full form serial anime (not OVA) in under a year? Nintendo funded all this shit for a franchise they were thinking would fail but simultaneously were sure was selling like hotcakes?
2 +2 != 5 my gamer

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:41:03 No.54289927 Report

Quoted By: >>54289950

>>54289902
Pokemon should not be bland like this, they should be "jobmons" with the job subtly tied in and included into the creature's design

for example:
Machamp is shit, Blaziken is da best
Aerodactyl is dull, Tyrantrum is amazing
and so on

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:44:01 No.54289937 Report

Quoted By: >>54289966

>>54289906
I'm not the person you were arguing with(he says he would stop replying or whatever), pokemon was a hit, not just at the 13th hour

I was just saying that the claim pokemon only did well(in japan) because of the crossmedia shit is bogus, those things only made it to production because of how well the game was doing

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:46:12 No.54289950 Report

Quoted By: >>54289982

>>54289927
The "jobmon" term is incredibly retarded
>Cat-like monster can create illusory attacks thanks to the leaf cape and the reflective fur to camouflage the stem of its flower, creating the illusion that the flower is floating
>Normal people: wow it's kinda like a magic-
>Retards: REEEE JOBMON THE POKEMON HAS A JOB

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:48:10 No.54289966 Report

Quoted By: >>54290025

>>54289937
The game's collection and trading/social play aspects fed into the merchandising aspects fed into the collection and trading/social play etc etc. It was all one big feedback loop. I don't think GameFreak knew what kind of lightning in a bottle they had and I don't think GF, Nintendo, HAL Labs et al could have intentionally created such a multimedia firestorm purely by intention even if they wanted to. But the point I'm making is that Pokemon was designed from day one with an intent to A: push GBs and link cables and B: push collectable merch. Everything else was a secondary concern; the games code barely even holds together and this is not new criticism. GF stumbled into some genius shit but almost none of it was in terms of gameplay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:49:43 No.54289982 Report

Quoted By: >>54290008 >>54290012 >>54290055 >>54290062 >>54290293

>>54289950
Jobmon refers to both Pokemon that are canonically stupid and artificial feeling like Incineroar, which is just a wrestler in a fursuit and doesn't make any goddamn sense as a monster or animal, and Pokemon that share design cues with those retarded Pokemon like Meowscarada. It's a conceptual issue and a visual issue being conflated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:50:53 No.54289992 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289435
L O R E

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:52:49 No.54290008 Report

Quoted By: >>54290032

>>54289982
>Monsters can't be wrestlers
>in a game about monsters fight
This is just cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:53:32 No.54290012 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289982
>which is just a wrestler in a fursuit and doesn't make any goddamn sense as a monster or animal
>a monster is what "I" want it to be!!!11!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:55:26 No.54290025 Report

Quoted By: >>54290078

>>54289966
>A: push GBs and link cables
yes, tajiri got the idea from the link cable and by 96 the gameboy was dying

>B: push collectable merch
no, they couldn't dream of ever having any real merch, pokemon was expected to fail, like I said the gameboy was dying and gamefreak was about to go bankrupt after 6 fucking years of development. collecting was very much a big part of pokemon as a concept but that was all within the game itself, not external products

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:56:14 No.54290032 Report

Quoted By: >>54290039 >>54290092 >>54292336

>>54290008
No, it's just stupid. Like at least Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan and Hitmontop are nondescript humanoids. Incineroar is straight up Tony the Tiger but also a pro wrestler because ???. It's pushing too far into both the themed design and the animal design to the point it feels uncomfortable and artificial (not the least because of the felt inspiration from furshit art).
Pokemon designs that lack authenticity or naturalism clash pretty fucking hard with earlier designs and just reinforce how hollow the games feel at this point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 22:57:17 No.54290039 Report

Quoted By: >>54290066 >>54290106

>>54290032
>TLDR; it'f fine when kanto does it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:00:10 No.54290055 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289982
this, this is the proper and correct meaning of "jobmon": artificial and forced, essentially; also implies an aesthetically ugly result

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:02:01 No.54290062 Report

Quoted By: >>54290106

>>54289982
>Incineroar being a wrestler is forced because i said so
i bet you wanted the leaked recolored animal lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:02:17 No.54290066 Report

Quoted By:

>>54290039
this

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:03:34 No.54290078 Report

Quoted By:

>>54290025
>collecting was very much a big part of pokemon as a concept but that was all within the game itself, not external products
Yeah collecting didn't have anything to do with the collectable card game, or the anime about collecting all the Pokemon.
But more to the point, Pocket Monsters going through development hell does not have any impact on whether or not Nintendo immediately jumped on it as a massive merchandising force. It was *always* intended to push consoles and link cables, and the marketability of a big roster of JRPG monsters intended for young boys to collect is obvious. They clearly saw potential in it when they fronted GF the development budget, and Tajiri taking his sweet time to get his end of the product delivered has no real bearing on anything. The idea that Pokemon was a dark horse that broke out in sales against all odds is just a simple, obvious narrative one would assume to be true without any deeper context, and Japanese businessmen are not ones to come out and brag about how they absolutely obliterated sales predictions and had Japanese kids eating out of the palms of their hands within a fucking year of launch thanks to smart marketing/merchandising.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:06:07 No.54290092 Report

Quoted By:

>>54290032
>naturalism
stop using words you don't understand

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:07:26 No.54290104 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289435
they just did whatever they thought was cool
they added a ghost to tell a ghost story
they added a dragon to have a cool guy with dragons (lance is the only trainer in the entire game with dragons)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:07:53 No.54290106 Report

Quoted By: >>54290118 >>54290126

>>54290062
Him being a wrestler isn't what's forced, though. Him being a wrestler AND a cat is what's fucking weird. It's what makes him a jobmon, "animal doing a job"

>>54290039
The point is that Kanto commits to its weird internal logic of having 'fighting' monsters, while later gens fall back to safe marketable animals-with-costumes because the artists either don't have confidence in their designs or can't come up with anything better.
it's not just animal-with-job either, now there's animal-but-food and before that there were the dark days of animal-with-lines.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:08:31 No.54290108 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289606
>Nidoking is a king
Where's his crown, cape and scepter?
>Literally all kaijumons
Really only a few and only by accident, not by design.
>Ivysaur
Literally a /vp/ meme.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:09:33 No.54290118 Report

Quoted By: >>54290133 >>54290198

>>54290106
>Him being a hypnotist isn't what's forced, though. Him being a hypnotist AND a tapir is what's fucking weird.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:09:40 No.54290120 Report

Quoted By:

Correction: they designed several Pokemon for Gen I, of which several of them were coded to be Poison type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:10:38 No.54290126 Report

Quoted By: >>54290139

>>54290106
>A tiger (very physically strong animal) being a physically strong monster-like wrestler is forced

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:11:28 No.54290133 Report

Quoted By: >>54290142

>>54290118
If Hypno had a full on stage magician getup and spawned a chair out of nowhere for half his animations then yes I would absolutely agree with you.
Even as is, I don't think many people are flocking to defend Hypno's design. He doesn't even read as a Tapir either, he's just a fucking jew (and that probably absolves some of his design weirdness since mass manipulator jew doesn't really conflict at all).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:12:35 No.54290139 Report

Quoted By: >>54290148

>>54290126
>monster-like
it's not though. It's tony the tiger with a wrestling belt. It's going in two entirely different directions at once.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:13:10 No.54290142 Report

Quoted By: >>54290169

>>54290133
>If Hypno had a full on stage magician getup and spawned a chair out of nowhere for half his animations then yes I would absolutely agree with you.
So then it's not the fact that it's a wrestler or even the fact that it's a wrestler cat, but the fact that it's a wrestler cat that wears it's inspiration on it's sleeve that you take issue with then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:14:01 No.54290148 Report

Quoted By:

>>54290139
>It's tony the tiger
So an anthro tiger-like monster got it
>with a wrestling belt
it's just fire anon don't be autistic

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:16:49 No.54290169 Report

Quoted By: >>54290175 >>54290184

>>54290142
It's the fact that Wrestler Cat is too over-the-top to be believable as an animal monster thing that lives in tall grass and needs to be studied by humans. It doesn't at all mesh with what Pokemon are established to be. And there have been hyperintelligent Pokemon in every gen, sure, but they're typically designed and shown to be mysterious and otherworldly.
Not fucking cereal box mascots whose BODIES HAVE EVOLVED TO PLAY HUMAN SPORTS AND PARTAKE IN HUMAN LABOR OR PASTIME ACTIVITIES

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO this is just a man.png, 250KiB, 753x800

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:18:56 No.54290175 Report

Quoted By: >>54290203

>>54290169
>It's the fact that Wrestler Cat is too over-the-top to be believable as an animal monster thing that lives in tall grass
>in the same game where the most common wild pokemon is a man wearing underwear

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:20:14 No.54290184 Report

Quoted By: >>54290218

>>54290169
>It's the fact that Wrestler Cat is too over-the-top to be believable as an animal monster thing that lives in tall grass and needs to be studied by humans.
If this is your issue then why do you even like this series? Clothes-wearing monsters that're themed around a profession have been there since day 1. If anything, the fact that it's ALSO partially based on an animal that actually exists rather than being a full-on humanoid makes it more believable. There is no fucking way that you think Incineroar with it's torn-shirt fur patterns and wrestling belt composed of flaming fur are less believable than Machamp with it's speedo and literal belt that they don't even try to explain, Jynx with it's full on dress and wig, Mr Mime with it's fucking shoes and hairdo, etc.
Just say you don't like the design rather than bullshitting, anon. No one'll hold it against you

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:22:50 No.54290198 Report

Quoted By: >>54290234

>>54290118
it's an extremely humanoid version of baku, the dream eating yokai, it's even on the human-like egg group

this ties directly to the idea of a hypnotist, the concepts of "cat" + "fire" + "heel wrestler" or "cat" + "plant" + "magician" do not come natural at all

other thing to note is that the gen 1 jobmons (alakazam, hypno, jynx and mime/machamp, hitmonchan and lee) are all part of the psychic/fighting dichotomy, are very detached from a wild animal association and they are actually wearing real clothes/carrying real objects. this is in contrast to the approach (starting with smeargle) of making it so the biology of a wild animal just happens to look like stylized versions of clothes/objects. Imagine if hypno had fur that was stylized to look like a hypnotist outfit and instead of carrying a pendulum it had a really long stringy finger that ends in a circle that just so happens to suggest a pendulum, then yeah it would be fucking laughable and ridiculous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:23:45 No.54290203 Report

Quoted By: >>54290227

>>54290175
And this is the point I'm making. Machop line are not common animals + a costume. They're fighting humanoid monster things. Yeah it's silly that they seem to grow the championship belt but that's excusable as videogame logic. The monster itself just being a jacked humanoid sorta reptilian thing is vague and animalistic enough that it doesn't register as immediately uncanny.
Incineroar and a lot of other later-gen jobmons look fucking uncanny and artificial in exactly the way furshit fetish art does. Something that is too recognizable as a stylized real-world animal and then has human-like features, clothing and behavior mapped onto it triggers my uncanny valley cringe and just looks disgusting.
Machoke looks like a kid came up with a generic 80's cartoon monster of the week, Incineroar et al look like a furfaggot's OC.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:25:10 No.54290216 Report

Quoted By: >>54290229

>>54289449
correct

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:25:38 No.54290218 Report

Quoted By:

>>54290184
>Just say you don't like the design rather than bullshitting
I'm trying to get across why a lot of people, especially during the height of Incineroar being a forced meme, were so strongly offput by the design without just saying "it sucks". If you don't have a problem with it then whatever, that's cool.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:26:20 No.54290227 Report

Quoted By: >>54290242

>>54290203
>it's fine when kanto does it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:26:42 No.54290229 Report

Quoted By: >>54290337

>>54290216
only koffing and grimer, the other are just wild venomous animals/plants, nothing related to pollution

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1690237189375.jpg, 680KiB, 2614x3000

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:26:48 No.54290230 Report

Quoted By:

Who wants to be a husband for my favourite vtuber, Emmydook?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:27:25 No.54290234 Report

Quoted By: >>54290251 >>54290268

>>54290198
>are very detached from a wild animal association and they are actually wearing real clothes/carrying real objects.
And this makes then more believable as creatures you find in the wild how exactly? You REALLY want to argue that a Pokemon that evolved to look like what's basically just a deformed man with clothes and a belt is more believable shitting in the woods and picking berries off of bushed than a two-legged cat creature that just happens to have fur fashioned like clothes? Because they're mysterious and video-gamey somehow???

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:27:45 No.54290238 Report

Quoted By: >>54290274

>>54289435
Before pokemon got sterilized, Kanto was a post-war, polluted psuedo-modern region.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:27:55 No.54290242 Report

Quoted By:

>>54290227
Kanto does it fundamentally differently.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:29:30 No.54290251 Report

Quoted By: >>54290257

>>54290234
NTA but having even a slight veneer of fairy tale/folktale/yokai mystique really helps keep designs from being too entirely on-the-nose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:30:44 No.54290257 Report

Quoted By:

>>54290251
>fairy tale/folktale/yokai mystique
You do realize that a massive chunk of those were real world animals with varying degrees of anthropomorphized traits right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:32:46 No.54290268 Report

Quoted By: >>54290284

>>54290234
jynx/mime/lee/chan don't even exist in the wild. kanto is an highly urbanized region, it's not that hard to believe those pokemon would be able to acquire those items from humans especially if you consider that
abra doesn't have the spoons
machop doesn't have the belt
drowzee doesn't have the pendulum
mankey doesn't have the metal cuffs

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:35:37 No.54290274 Report

Quoted By:

>>54290238
this you can see johto beta designs too octillery mantine etc..

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:37:10 No.54290284 Report

Quoted By: >>54290330

>>54290268
>it's not that hard to believe those pokemon would be able to acquire those items from humans
This logic falls apart when you realize that every instance of those mons just so happens to have found the same (or incredibly similar) instances of that one item that they apparently can't be without. The idea that something like Braixen and Delphox carrying around a regular ass wooden stick to do their schtick is somehow egregious because they're also foxes whereas Machoke carrying around a very obviously man-made belt that they all need to wear in order to even be considered Machoke isn't because it's just an ugly looking human is ridiculous

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:39:07 No.54290293 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289982
So you hate Hitmonchan too, right?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:44:18 No.54290320 Report

Quoted By:

>FURRIES FURRIES FURRIES!!!
This is how i tell how much you're cuckbroken by furries

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:46:05 No.54290330 Report

Quoted By: >>54290333

>>54290284
those items might be necessary or a trigger for their evolution, game mechanic limitations can't accurately reflect how evolution works(or any slight variations(like a kadabra that bends forks instead of spoons because that's what it got ahold of), we know weezing are the result of two koffings fusing, and yet ingame you just level up one. we know slowbro is the result of a shellder/slowpoke fusion and yet you just level up slowpoke ingame, dugtrio are three diglett banding together and yet in game it looks like two extra twins just spawn upon evolution.

point being, game mechanics cannot accurately represent inuniverse reality

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:47:24 No.54290333 Report

Quoted By:

>>54290330
>those items might be necessary or a trigger for their evolution, game mechanic limitations can't accurately reflect how evolution works
Evolution items have existed since Day 1, not an excuse. If there was one thing they could've portrayed even way back in Gen 1 if they cared, it was this

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:48:07 No.54290337 Report

Quoted By: >>54290383

>>54290229
They know what they were doing nigga. It isn't a coincidence that the area around Saffron has more Poison types

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Aug 2023 23:58:37 No.54290383 Report

Quoted By:

>>54290337
>the area around Saffron has more Poison types
???

toad with a poisonous plant has nothing to do with pollution
venomous wasp has nothing to do with pollution
disease-ridden bat has nothing to do with pollution
venoumous rabbit/kaiju has nothing to do with pollution
poisonous moth has nothing to do with pollution
poisonous corpse smelling plant has nothing to do with pollution
venomous jellyfish has nothing do to with pollution
acid filled plant has nothing to do with pollution
ghost has nothing to do with pollution

toxic sludge is related to pollution
toxic gas bag is related to pollution

that's all there is to it. there's a reason all the bikers/skinheads(which are on bikes) ingame only have koffing and grimer(and mankey/machop to reflect their toughness but no other poison type pokemon)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 00:24:00 No.54290518 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289487
>Leafeon

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1540937077673.jpg, 71KiB, 800x800

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 02:00:23 No.54291074 Report

Quoted By:

all my pokemon are jobmons because they take out the garbage

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 02:10:59 No.54291150 Report

Quoted By: >>54292333

>>54289450
You're only speaking through a competitive perspective and not single player which was the intention given that PVP battling was a last minute request from Nintendo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 04:06:12 No.54291978 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289664
>maybe you could make a point for zubat to not be poison but bats are disease spreaders and the only alternative would be for it to be normal/flying which feels just as wrong if not more
Rats are also disease spreaders, and yet Rattata and Raticate are both Normal type. A Normal/Flying type Zubat can absolutely work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 05:26:41 No.54292330 Report

Quoted By: >>54292337

>>54289476
>>not a single jobmon
mr mime and the hitmons

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 05:27:38 No.54292333 Report

Quoted By:

>>54291150
wrong quote?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 05:28:33 No.54292336 Report

Quoted By: >>54292352 >>54292427

>>54290032
There is literally no good faith way to say that a pokemon being a literal boxer with literal boxing gloves is okay but a pokemon being a literal wrestler is not

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 05:28:54 No.54292337 Report

Quoted By:

>>54292330
Jynx in a dress
Machoke and Machamp trunks and belt

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 05:32:32 No.54292352 Report

Quoted By:

>>54292336
the clothes are worse than the gloves or boxing
and it's at least not a My Mom's

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 05:48:36 No.54292411 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289487
gen I thread, zoomie

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 05:50:41 No.54292421 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289602
how does one remain so stupid while living in the information age? for fucks sake, get a clue

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 05:51:44 No.54292427 Report

Quoted By:

>>54292336
you mean a cat. a cat being a wrestler.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Boomer fursuit.png, 437KiB, 1088x596

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 06:11:16 No.54292485 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289476
>Not a single fursuitmon
Kaijus are the boomer's fursuit and no enough amount of cope will ever change that

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 11:12:44 No.54293316 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289435
because they're retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 15:09:36 No.54294183 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289435
no dark type in gen 1 so poision was the 'evil' type

also grass type's resistances were designed to work well with poison's

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 15:15:03 No.54294209 Report

Quoted By:

>>54289599
Venom is a cool defense for an animal so it was incorporated into a lot of designs

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 Aug 2023 19:59:32 No.54295626 Report

Quoted By:

kanto is toxic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2023 00:28:58 No.54297119 Report

Quoted By: >>54298278

>>54289476
>Hitmonchan
>Machoke/Machamp
>Mr. Mime
>Jynx
>Hypno
Mmkay

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Aug 2023 04:02:50 No.54298278 Report

Quoted By:

>>54297119
These are humanoid types so it's ok

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