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Game Mechanic Change Ideas

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 07:20:56 No.54435569 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>54437405 >>54437651 >>54437762 >>54438206 >>54438762

This is a thread for discussing how gameplay tweaks might affect the metagame and if they're fun or not.

How would the metagame fare if recoil damage and life orb no longer fainted the Pokemon using them? Instead they will always live with 1HP.

What can we do to balance the metagame so that as few things are banned from OU as possible? Not just Pokemon but certain abilities and move combinations; like Snow Cloak on certain mons, or baton passing more than just a 2x to a single stat?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 07:31:52 No.54435589 Report

Quoted By: >>54435684 >>54435713 >>54437407 >>54439100

Remove PP and add a mana system. E.g. have to wait 3 turns in between uses of recovery moves, Tackle, Bubble etc. can be used infinitely with no waiting in-between turns, Flamethrower etc. can be used every other turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 07:53:32 No.54435636 Report

Quoted By: >>54435692

Raise the move pool from four to eight

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 08:11:37 No.54435684 Report

Quoted By:

>>54435589
>have to wait 3 turns in between uses of recovery moves
Yes I think cooldown phases for certain moves would be appropriate. Excellent idea. Maybe a 1 turn cool-down on switching too; ie force whomever switches in to use a move (or item/run if PvE). Hyper Beam would even benefit from its cooldown being passive, even if it's for 2 or 3 turns.
>Remove PP
To me PP is fundamental to the way Pokemon is played. Changing it to mana would require too much overhauling for both devs and players, at least for my taste. But the original Pokemon sketches had a mana system so it's not totally whack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 08:14:09 No.54435692 Report

Quoted By: >>54435705

>>54435636
This might be pure chaos but what if you could bring 4 "reserve moves" to battle for each pokemon. At any point you can use your turn to change your moveset. It'll cost a turn, but if you're anticipating a switch then it might give you just the arsenal you need to answer it. 4 moves total isn't enough but 8 moves at once seems too busted unless there's something to help narrow/pace the exponential rise in unpredictability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 08:19:10 No.54435705 Report

Quoted By: >>54435716 >>54435726 >>54435741

>>54435692
>mon that has a slew of defensive and boosting moves like recover, bulk up, agility, etc
>then switches to all-out attacking set once it's fully set up and cleans house
disgusting and vile

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 08:20:47 No.54435713 Report

Quoted By:

>>54435589
So the turn-based variant of Pokemon Go's battle system?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 08:22:40 No.54435716 Report

Quoted By:

>>54435705
Right well maybe there should be a handful of meta answers to this scenario. Maybe Pokemon that force a switch if the opponent is boosted. Make it a common ability and give it to like fifteen shitmons and maybe two or three good ones. I'm sure there's tons of creative answers to this problem. Maybe a priority haze idk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 08:24:41 No.54435726 Report

Quoted By: >>54435740

>>54435705
Also what if the limit was ONE move per turn? So that doom tank would have to spend at least two turns if it wants coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 08:28:50 No.54435740 Report

Quoted By: >>54435772

>>54435726
wouldn't matter honestly since there's a few mons that already can pull off cosmic power + stored power sets under the 4 move limit
once something's +6 you're not denting it without a crit so spending a turn here or there won't hurt it much

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 08:29:02 No.54435741 Report

Quoted By:

>>54435705
It does also let pokemon with a ton of utility better use the tools they wouldn't use outside of VGC though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 08:42:07 No.54435772 Report

Quoted By: >>54435781

>>54435740
Well that says more about CP/SP being busted than anything else. Maybe Cosmic Power should be a special effect rather than a direct stage boost. Have it double both stats until the pokemon switches out but no further stacking than that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 08:46:33 No.54435781 Report

Quoted By:

>>54435772
eh, it'd be the same if you just used a mon with iron defense/amnesia for example.
or even iron defense/calm mind like reuniclus would run back when it existed.
seriously, that set was scary as all hell. if your dark types went down or got poisoned it could just win the game on its own.
and that's without the ability to ditch the boosting moves to smack darkies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 16:08:54 No.54437386 Report

Quoted By: >>54437663

Bring back Stat EXP.

sickamore

sickamore Sat 09 Sep 2023 16:12:34 No.54437405 Report

Quoted By:

>>54435569
The metagame should become pokken but even more complex. lets say pokken with holdable items, abilities, weather and all that, even type advantages, although the types are less influential.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 16:12:58 No.54437407 Report

Quoted By: >>54437834

>>54435589
>Remove PP and add a mana system.
Terrible. Att it would do is encourage spam.
>cooldowns
This isn't a real time game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 16:58:03 No.54437651 Report

Quoted By: >>54437950 >>54438308 >>54440027

>>54435569
In the event of a speed tie, both Pokemon attack at the exact same time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 16:59:40 No.54437663 Report

Quoted By: >>54437747 >>54438328

>>54437386
Stat exp is boring, there's never a reason to not max it out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:15:15 No.54437747 Report

Quoted By: >>54437779

>>54437663
And EV's just encourage autistic minmaxing. Just let me level a Pokemon normally instead of buying 20 vitamins or fighting the same wild Pokemon for an hour.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:17:15 No.54437762 Report

Quoted By:

>>54435569
Ice resists Ground and Flying. To compensate, Rock now resists Ice. Paralysis now prevents priority moves instead of random disabling the Pokemon for a turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:19:38 No.54437779 Report

Quoted By: >>54437818

>>54437747
EVs encourage putting thought into your sets. You're going to complain about EV training taking an hour, when stat exp always took way longer to max out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:22:50 No.54437801 Report

Quoted By: >>54437882 >>54440027

Dodge button.
If you use it, your pokemon will evade the opponent's attack, as if the attack had 0% accuracy.
The catch is that your pokemon gets confused if the opponent doesn't actually attack. Dodge is unavailable if your pokemon is confused or suffering a status condition. It also can't be used two times in a row, and won't protect your pokemon against attacks with perfect accuracy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:26:30 No.54437818 Report

Quoted By: >>54437835

>>54437779
Yeah, such provoking thoughts like "copying the 252/252/4 spread that you found online". EV's are garbage and just encourage autism in a game for toddlers. Stat EXP will be capped naturally as you play the game, meanwhile you have to go back and reset your EV's if you have the audacity to want to use the same Pokemon you used in the base game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:29:03 No.54437834 Report

Quoted By:

>>54437407
>only real time games can use cooldowns
KYS and improve this board.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1681605179771998.png, 4KiB, 464x55

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:29:27 No.54437835 Report

Quoted By: >>54437840 >>54437844 >>54437858

>>54437818
>252/252/4
ENTER

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:30:34 No.54437840 Report

Quoted By: >>54437847

>>54437835
You're still just copying someone else's work my dude, and your autism has caused you to miss the forest for the trees.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:30:59 No.54437844 Report

Quoted By: >>54437851 >>54437858

>>54437835
>one niche ev spread for some niche shitmon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:31:26 No.54437847 Report

Quoted By:

>>54437840
Why does it matter if you're copying someone else's set?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:31:53 No.54437850 Report

Quoted By: >>54437865 >>54440027

Accuracy boosts for moves if used by a Pokemon that shares its type should more expanded on.

Currently it's only for Sheer Cold. I'd like to see it for Rock-type moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:32:04 No.54437851 Report

Quoted By:

>>54437844
didn't realize tapu fini was considered a niche shitmon now

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:32:59 No.54437858 Report

Quoted By:

>>54437835
>>54437844
It's not like it's that complicated or takes thinking anyway. As much speed to beat the specific thing it beats, not max HP so it loses less to stealth rock, enough defense to take a specific hit, rest dumped in attack. So much thinking wow looking at lists is so hard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:33:59 No.54437865 Report

Quoted By:

>>54437850
Rock STAB having higher accuracy would be great. Could do the same for ice as well, so water-types can't make as good use of Ice Beam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:35:51 No.54437882 Report

Quoted By: >>54437900 >>54437902

>>54437801
Isn't this just... worse protect?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:37:46 No.54437900 Report

Quoted By:

>>54437882
>ellipses user can't think for 1 second
Classic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:37:55 No.54437902 Report

Quoted By:

>>54437882
Yes, but you have it for every Pokemon as a fifth option.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 17:48:19 No.54437950 Report

Quoted By:

>>54437651
This is a great idea. Imagine all the shit that would go down in the metagame where everyone runs the same sets and EVs

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 18:38:43 No.54438206 Report

Quoted By: >>54440027

>>54435569
STAB moves get 10% better accuracy and 5% higher effect chance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 18:54:58 No.54438308 Report

Quoted By:

>>54437651
This would honestly be a good change, it’s both hilarious and fair

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 18:57:40 No.54438328 Report

Quoted By: >>54438418

>>54437663
EV’s Making mixed attackers obsolete is more boring though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 19:10:32 No.54438418 Report

Quoted By: >>54438730

>>54438328
There are better ways to go about that than making stat points into busywork.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 19:57:19 No.54438730 Report

Quoted By: >>54438806

>>54438418
Yeah which is why EV's suck. They make stat points into busywork. Stat EXP just happens naturally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:02:16 No.54438762 Report

Quoted By: >>54440027

>>54435569
Like in Mystery Dungeon, Pokémon can now have 2 abilities at once. Their regular abilities, what was once either or, are now together in one set along with a second set for hidden abilities. Adjustments will have to be made for some Pokémon, but it should allow ability reliant Pokémon to have more flexibility.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:12:00 No.54438806 Report

Quoted By: >>54438826

>>54438730
Except stat exp is mindless busywork. There is no planning for the stats you want, you just max everything out. And it took a long time to max out stats in the old games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:14:50 No.54438826 Report

Quoted By: >>54438838 >>54439922

>>54438806
A compromise could be raising the cap for how many EVs can a pokémon have in total. Like, make them 750 instead of 510.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:17:21 No.54438838 Report

Quoted By: >>54438855 >>54439922

>>54438826
I'd rather keep the current limits as-is, but introduce diminishing returns so that 4 EVs is not always 1 stat point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:20:06 No.54438855 Report

Quoted By: >>54438865

>>54438838
So like an actual exp curve for the stats?
>Level 1-20 Stat: 4 exp, 1 Point
>Level 21-40 Stat: 10 exp, 1 Point

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:21:56 No.54438865 Report

Quoted By: >>54438906

>>54438855
>So like an actual exp curve for the stats?
Similar, yes. Not decided by level, but by how many EVs have been put into a single stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:31:13 No.54438906 Report

Quoted By: >>54438916

>>54438865
Yeah i meant that with level in my previous post, not the pokémon's level.

> add. points = (evs / (4 + evs / 20))

With this formula, after every 20 evs gained the curve raises a bit, asking more evs for a point increase

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:31:36 No.54438908 Report

Quoted By:

Dual type STAB: 1.5 damage and 1.1 accuracy (2.0 / 1.2 with adaptability)
Single type STAB: 2.0 damage and 1.2 accuracy (2.5 / 1.3 with adaptability)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:32:58 No.54438916 Report

Quoted By: >>54438933 >>54440027

>>54438906
Every 20 seems a bit steep. Maybe past a certain point it can start to ramp up like that. Maybe at 128 or something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:35:00 No.54438933 Report

Quoted By: >>54438945

>>54438916
depends how much do you want to change how much the stat is increased by evs. At 128 you're basically already halfway through with that stat's progression.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:37:40 No.54438945 Report

Quoted By: >>54438963

>>54438933
>At 128 you're basically already halfway through with that stat's progression.
Exactly. You could invest fully into speed and both offensive stats that way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:42:31 No.54438963 Report

Quoted By:

>>54438945
ohhh, ok i get it now. You want to deincentivize maximizing a stat

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 20:42:32 No.54438965 Report

Quoted By:

Monotypes get type multipliers as if they had two instances of their type. So Seaking quad resists Fire moves but Tentacruel only half resists them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 21:03:48 No.54439100 Report

Quoted By: >>54440027 >>54440997

>>54435589
I've always wondered what /vp/ thought about Temtem's stamina system. I've never actually played it myself, but the way it works is that each pokémon has a stamina stat, and each move takes up a certain amount of stamina to use, with the more powerful ones using up more. Performing moves once you've got no stamina left will eat into your HP instead. You regain a tiny bit of stamina at the end of each turn, and can choose to rest for a turn to regain a large portion.

Are there any temtemfags here who can comment on the stamina system? Does it actually work well?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 21:10:51 No.54439141 Report

Quoted By: >>54439708 >>54440027

I was always bothered how lots of pokemon levitate or fly but get hit by ground moves or have levitate as an ability to make it so they fly. Maybe add traits along side abilities so that it makes sense while giving the pokemon an ability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 22:36:42 No.54439708 Report

Quoted By: >>54440027

>>54439141
A mobility and/or habitat system would be neat. I don't know how much it would affect PVP other than flying, but it'd be great to have in single player to encourage using different Pokémon and prevent an ORAS situation where you could have any Pokémon battle underwater, in the sky, or in space, even if it should be impossible to do so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 23:14:25 No.54439922 Report

Quoted By: >>54440080

>>54438826
>>54438838
I think increasing the EV total makes sense. With power creep, +127 stat points is almost like a +63.5 base stat total increase --- which isn't very much in a metagame where 600 BST is standard. 10% of your total stats isn't enough wiggle room IMO. It's close but just not quite enough.

I like the diminishing returns idea because it is a decent alternative for people who want a valid reason to evenly distribute EVs without thinking too hard about it. However in that case I *definitely* think a higher EV total is required.

Ultimately I agree with anons saying EVs are better than SE for competitive gameplay, but that stat experience is more satisfying for single player playthroughs. If it were up to me I'd make stat experience the standard for single player, but for competitive I'd program the game so that all stat experience is ignored and you are instead given EVs to distribute, which can be done from the menu any time or on the player match screen.

Fully agreed with anon saying the current EV system is obnoxious busywork. Stat experience is more satisfying to grind for personally and I don't consider the experience the same as gaining EVs in gen 3+.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 23:30:08 No.54440027 Report

Quoted By: >>54440044

>>54437651
Love it.
>>54438762
I mostly favor this. Figuring out which ability a monster has is fun though so we definitely want hidden sets.
>>54438916
Sounds about right.
>>54439141
>>54439708
This also irks me and I think these are good ideas. Make traits distinct from abilities since flying/levitating/swimming/etc. are all such common things among many species. It's not fair to eat their ability slots just to indicate they float.

>>54437801
I'm a little iffy on this one. It would be a *massive* change to the system. PvE it would be for the better. PvP? I'm not sure. It's balanced and seems fun, certainly, but my concern is that it's so different that past players might drop the series due to how it would impact the metagame. However it makes perfect sense series-wise and lore-wise.
>>54437850
>>54438206
Also iffy on these but not fully against them either. Makes sense.

>>54439100
I'm against a stamina system in Pokemon because I think the PP system is a defining element of the series. However if we did have a stamina system, I'd make it so you only need it once PP is gone. And then slash all PP counts to ~10 or 5.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 23:32:02 No.54440044 Report

Quoted By: >>54440051

>>54440027
Actually we could combine the "trait" and "dodge" ideas into one: dodging is a trait that most nimble pokemon have. Other pokemon will instead prefer to block, parry, counter, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 23:33:06 No.54440051 Report

Quoted By:

>>54440044
Kecleon's action trait might be to "hide" for example; which not only evades a move but changes his type at the same time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 23:34:48 No.54440066 Report

Quoted By: >>54440090 >>54440134

I think Pressure should have an additional effect, like maybe Clear Body where stats can't be lowered or maybe Unaware. I understand that it's probably broken but it's mostly on legends anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 23:38:44 No.54440080 Report

Quoted By:

>>54439922
>10% of your total stats isn't enough wiggle room IMO
Really it's even less than this when you consider IVs account for almost a +93 BST difference, and factor in all the +5s in the stat formula, not to mention the level+10 in the HP formula. The current EV count simply isn't enough.

After switching from gen 2 to EVs in gen 3, every gen 1+2 pokemon suddenly became far, far less bulky. This is a problem when the whole paradigm of attack power is based on gen 1 moves meant for targets with the bulk of high stat experience.

So yes, cut EV gains after 50% and bump the total EV count higher so that bulk is easier to add without completely gimping high offensive investment at the same time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 23:40:38 No.54440090 Report

Quoted By:

>>54440066
Agreed that it should have some extra function to better reflect the legendaries who use it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Sep 2023 23:51:52 No.54440134 Report

Quoted By:

>>54440066
Personally, I'd buff Pressure to chop off 1 PP from all of the opponent's moves. I think it'd fit the oppressive nature of the ability and give Pressure mons a fun niche against defensive movesets, though admittedly it might make them really annoying to fight and catch in the wild, especially when classic Pressure users are legendaries.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO unknown1.png, 688KiB, 1083x1000

Anonymous Sun 10 Sep 2023 02:34:28 No.54440997 Report

Quoted By: >>54441121

>>54439100
Speaking as someone who's reached Temtem's equivalent of Master Ball rank.

I will start off by saying that Temtem's mechanics aren't 1:1 of Pokemon, a lot of things are different that may exaggerate the issue of stamina, such as stat boosts remaining upon swap-out and that the format is doubles. Numbers may also play a role (i.e. lower stamina may make a difference) but overall battles are very, very fast paced and snowball-y and heavily favors those with a winning opening. Tanks become far more broken than what they ought to be as they have high stamina pools and having stamina as a mechanic in general makes it far more difficult to wall break through them because they're designed to soak up damage and thus causing you to expend more stamina than usual. It also gives a lot of power to swapping out in the sense that not predicting correctly ends up being severely punishing as every bit of stamina is invaluable; not having enough can damage you and rob you of a whole turn, which brutalizes momentum despite how hard it already is to get going without an advantageous opening into the match as mentioned before. On top of this, it puts a lot of emphasis on type match-ups when it's already difficult as is to survive in a disadvantageous situation due to it; you could simple lose a match from type matchup alone which eliminates a lot of skilled gameplay revolving around triumphing through that disadvantage.

All n' all, stamina just simply isn't necessary. It adds a lot more complex thought, but it also dumbs down a lot of elements that already existed and can make it feel impossible to play without just simply having a better starting hand or meta-abusing particular gimmicks such as Deceit Aura which is the Trick Room variant of Drought/Surges. It also makes it hard to play casually, as stamina HAS to be on your mind at all times. It isn't better or worse than PP, it's just different and as such comes with its own set of problems just like PP does.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 10 Sep 2023 03:00:32 No.54441121 Report

Quoted By:

>>54440997
In hindsight, I feel like it's also worth mentioning that redirection abilities and items and likewise immunities also negatively impact the overall qol of the game. Whether that's a byproduct of doubles or not, I'm not necessarily sure, but the fact is that having your turn and especially your stamina wasted in any way is far too punishing as typically, Temtem have just enough without any investment into their stamina to make a rotation in certain combos of moves, which again gives a lot of power to tankier Temtem who can simply sit on the field and force you to waste all of their stamina while they set up defenses, recover HP, and apply statuses. This also makes raid boss strats incredibly one-sided, and has actively been a target of nerfing for a long time, though the way stat boosts remain may be a bigger culprit to the toxicity of such a strategy. It's also worth noting that some Temtem who have particularly low base stamina struggle into obscurity unless something else is at play such as a fantastic typing, min-maxed stats, and/or a good ability and as a result can create an unhealthy balancing act that leaves them too strong or too weak but is all the same not particularly fun to play with as managing their stamina becomes more and more complex regardless of whether they're strong or not.

If I had to TLDR both this post and the first one in a way a Pokemon player might understand, I'd say imagine a completely normal Toxapex except you can only attack 3 times before you are forced to swap out or burn a turn. In other words, you're on a timer from the start and that can be worsened via poison status, while Toxapex is not. Ever.

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