/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #54702965

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47KiB, 1191x414, 2023-10-18 02.31.47 www.smogon.com 06bd23862640.jpg

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 05:35:59 No.54702965 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>54702978 >>54703046 >>54703063 >>54703600 >>54703955 >>54704741 >>54704781 >>54704842 >>54705184 >>54705188 >>54705208 >>54705267 >>54705623

Smogon with another biased suspect
Oh yeah it must be Ogerpon or Kingambi-
>Roaring Moon
Lmao wtf? this shit was UU, everyone gave it low scores, it wasn't even relevant enough to be in surveys

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 05:38:11 No.54702975 Report

Quoted By: >>54703009 >>54703038 >>54703044 >>54703057 >>54703063 >>54703587 >>54705551

they need to come up with an OUBL tier or something. volcarona only being allowed in a tier that also allows 680 bst legendaries is bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 05:38:37 No.54702978 Report

Quoted By: >>54702989

>>54702965
>Ogrepon
Which one of them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 05:41:10 No.54702989 Report

Quoted By:

>>54702978
The water one

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 05:50:09 No.54703009 Report

Quoted By: >>54705066 >>54705551

>>54702975
Just play UUbers

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 05:57:41 No.54703038 Report

Quoted By: >>54704804

>>54702975
BL's are not tiers.
If you wanted a tier like that, it'd just be OU with the old OU being UU now etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 05:59:51 No.54703044 Report

Quoted By: >>54703054

>>54702975
>they need to come up with an OUBL tier or something
That already exists, it's called Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 05:59:58 No.54703046 Report

Quoted By:

>>54702965
Oh no not another suspect test...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 06:03:46 No.54703054 Report

Quoted By: >>54703062 >>54704842

>>54703044
>annihilape and volcarona are just as broken as mewtwo and rayquaza
there needs to be an in between

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 06:05:13 No.54703057 Report

Quoted By:

>>54702975
If it's not good enough it'll fall to UUbers

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 06:06:51 No.54703062 Report

Quoted By:

>>54703054
only bad players struggle with Annihilate

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 06:07:10 No.54703063 Report

Quoted By:

>>54702965
it got buffed in the dlc
>>54702975
>>54702975
uubers just launched last week

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 06:50:06 No.54703181 Report

Quoted By: >>54703581 >>54704833

ban ghold you cowards it's the reason why the meta is hyper offence central

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 09:30:06 No.54703581 Report

Quoted By:

>>54703181
ghold is not that bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 09:33:55 No.54703587 Report

Quoted By:

>>54702975
OUBL is called ubers
BL is the banlist when the Pokemon is too strong to be in that tier but not used enough in the next

Just play ubers

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 09:41:31 No.54703600 Report

Quoted By:

>>54702965
And after roaring moon there will be more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 12:09:52 No.54703955 Report

Quoted By: >>54704842 >>54705070

>>54702965
Is suspect testing playing a version of the meta without the pokemon to see the changes or is it fucking autists using their "theories" to see if a pokemon is op or not?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 14:49:13 No.54704715 Report

Quoted By:

finch is a pedo

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 14:54:56 No.54704741 Report

Quoted By:

>>54702965
Roaring Moon didn't have Knock Off before.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:02:27 No.54704781 Report

Quoted By: >>54706115 >>54706157 >>54706689

>>54702965
>suspect for a pokemon no one uses
what the fuck? i'm just a 1500 shitter sure but i fucking never see roaring moon
this looks like a classic case of finch's "i lost to (thing) so we have to suspect and ban it RIGHT NOW" autism

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:07:34 No.54704804 Report

Quoted By: >>54704852

>>54703038
Yes. The entire point of OU is it's supposed to be "the strongest Pokemon that aren't cover legendaries." If the average power level of the game is such that dozens of the best non cover legendaries are being sent to Ubers, maybe we need to acknowledge that that power level is what OU should be and the OU we are trying to make is the new UU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:12:32 No.54704833 Report

Quoted By: >>54705655

>>54703181
Isn't the standard complain that smogon loves stall? So shouldn't the meta now being hyper-offensive be a good thing and disprove that notion?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:14:03 No.54704842 Report

Quoted By: >>54705066

>>54702965
It got the two best moves for its type (scale shot and knock off) in the dlc. This happens every gen when new or returning mons get access to new moves.
>>54703054
No their really doesn't. No one cares that your fav is stuck in "too good for OU too shit for Ubers" limbo
>>54703955
>Is suspect testing playing a version of the meta without the pokemon to see the changes
Yes a suspect test is a temporary ladder with the proposed metagame changes

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:15:55 No.54704852 Report

Quoted By: >>54704861 >>54705127 >>54705182

>>54704804
this. pokemon is very clearly moving in the direction of hyper offense over the course of the last few gens and smogon needs to stop clinging to archaic paradigms like stall and balance.
more bans this gen than any other, with even more on the way, and yet it's still the most HO-focused meta ever. the game has fundamentally changed, and they need to get with the program.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:17:43 No.54704861 Report

Quoted By: >>54704886 >>54704936

>>54704852
A game with only one playstyle is not healthy for competition

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:21:57 No.54704886 Report

Quoted By: >>54704907

>>54704861
endless bans to support niche playstyles that game freak clearly want gone isn't "healthy" either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:27:06 No.54704907 Report

Quoted By: >>54704941

>>54704886
>niche playstyles
Everything dominated by hyper offense isn't fun. Knock off spam, hazard spam and then clean up is the most boring shit ever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:32:41 No.54704936 Report

Quoted By: >>54704977

>>54704861
That's not necessarily true, if the entire meta was Balance teams it would be a lot more playable, the issue is if HO is the meta the game just becomes match up fishing and coinflipping, to the best of my understanding.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:33:19 No.54704941 Report

Quoted By: >>54704953

>>54704907
if you want a meta that isn't just hyper offense, you have to play lower tiers or past gens. OU will never be anything but HO central from now on, no matter how much smogon whines about it. they're simply too slow, by the time they finally get around to banning every ""broken"" (too much for the neutered defensive archetypes to handle) HO mon this gen, the next gen will be out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:36:19 No.54704953 Report

Quoted By: >>54704990

>>54704941
The meta gets more and more hyper offensive the lower you go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:39:22 No.54704977 Report

Quoted By: >>54704988

>>54704936
>That's not necessarily true, if the entire meta was Balance teams it would be a lot more playable
that's gen 8 OU, and it's pretty commonly agreed that it's the worst state OU has ever been in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:41:11 No.54704988 Report

Quoted By: >>54705014

>>54704977
True enough, is that an issue with Gen 8 not having a good answer to multiple Regenerators + Boots?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:41:47 No.54704990 Report

Quoted By:

>>54704953
so what you're saying is... defensive team structures don't function outside of tiers where they can be artificially propped up by targeted bans?
hmm, it's almost like HO is the intended way to play the game and everything else is square peg round hole shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:45:56 No.54705014 Report

Quoted By: >>54705016 >>54705150

>>54704988
yeah, pretty much. boots are unironically a broken item and should have been banned. finch has a hard-on for regenerator spam, though, which is why the tier is in the state it's in. future sight also needed to be looked at, that shit was absolute cancer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:46:46 No.54705016 Report

Quoted By: >>54705050

>>54705014
Counterpoint, isn't Future Sight one of the only ways to break through Stall in Gen 8?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:52:22 No.54705044 Report

Quoted By:

BL tiers are bullshit the way they are. What's wrong with giving players the option to play them?
Just set a toggle whether you want to face BL mons or not, like an additional toggleable rule, and make it YES if you use BLs yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:53:54 No.54705050 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705016
at the end of the day, all future sight does is make the already-dominant playstyle even better. it's not needed to break stall (which isn't very good compared to balance anyway), teleport is enough for that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:56:30 No.54705066 Report

Quoted By: >>54705099 >>54705109

>>54704842
>No their really doesn't. No one cares that your fav is stuck in "too good for OU too shit for Ubers" limbo
The problem is that the majority of what was supposed to be in OU will end up there, to the point it'll be a bigger list than the list of OU.

>>54703009
Explain, what is that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 15:56:54 No.54705070 Report

Quoted By: >>54705226

>>54703955
suspect ladders are a new ladder where you have to have a certain point requirement and win/loss ratio to qualify for the suspect voting. its actually the same tier as the original ladder but its meant to make you confront the suspect pokemon and form a more focused opinion on if its healthy for the metagame or not. personally i think suspects are a bit unfair because the people who have no problem with the pokemon have very little incentive to ladder while the people who hate it and want it gone are incentivized to get reqs and ban it. Although in gen 9 it seems like most pokemon and mechanics are surviving the suspect test process.
There are alternate metas like gen 7 UU (no scald) or the infamous gen 6 OU (no aegislash) where the point was to demonstrate how different the metagame would be if these things were already banned without a suspect test.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:02:56 No.54705099 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705066
It's a new usage based tier between Ubers and OU, where you can't use the mons that are high usage in Ubers, this results in some funky stuff like Skeledirge which is UU being banned since it sees high usage in Ubers play.
It's a pretty nice home for forgotten Ubers like Magearna, Shaymin-Sky, Palafin, Palkia Origin, and all the weird Arceus forms.
Unfortunately since it's a small niche meta right now, you have to use discord to get matches, unless it gets a proper ladder on Showdown.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:04:09 No.54705109 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705066
UUbers is ubers but without the top most used pokemon in ubers. Don't remember what exactly the cutoff point is, but it's basically splitting the bottom of ubers, that are too strong for OU but not strong enough to get use in ubers, into its own tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:07:25 No.54705127 Report

Quoted By:

>>54704852
>just accept a dogshit meta game because gamefreak cant balance their game

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:12:13 No.54705150 Report

Quoted By: >>54705166

>>54705014
future sight teleport allowed breakers to beat pokemon that could sit in and spam recovery moves. it was necessary to make games not take 100 turns. HDB werent broken either, it was just that regenerator pivots gave teams way too much momentum for almost 0 cost but everyone thought that was a problem with HDB when it was really just a problem with no cost pivot mons being OP and stapled onto every team

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:16:01 No.54705166 Report

Quoted By: >>54705179 >>54705250

>>54705150
no one sits in and spams recovery moves in gen 8, that's a fast track to kart SDing in your face and busting your team wide open.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:19:05 No.54705179 Report

Quoted By: >>54705250

>>54705166
oh yeah, sd kart, that thing thats on every single team without fail. how about this, ill go look at the SPL gen 8 ou replays and ill see how many recover spam mons there are compared to kartanas

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:20:38 No.54705182 Report

Quoted By: >>54705190 >>54705198 >>54705336 >>54705394

>>54704852
I haven't gotten to G9 yet, but is Tera really comparable to Z-Moves or Dyna power level? I know it gives you extra STAB but that sounds really mild compared to 200+ BP move or 150PB move with 10 more extra effects on top and 50 benefits to the maxed mon.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1668578687884865.png, 38KiB, 225x225

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:21:08 No.54705184 Report

Quoted By:

>>54702965
Finchinator? Well, he ain't no Centro, I'll say that much.

HOWEVER...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:21:29 No.54705188 Report

Quoted By: >>54705307

>>54702965
Roaring Moon is basically Baxcalibur Jr the moment it got access to scale shot and knock off.

I'm actually fine with the suspect as there is merit behind it, IN A VACUUM. But Gholdengo can't keep getting away with it and should have gotten a suspect before Moon did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:22:43 No.54705190 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705182
It's stronger than Z-Moves and weaker than Dyna, but being weaker than the most gamewarping mechanic in series history could mean a lot of things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:24:57 No.54705198 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705182
Adaptability on every Pokemon is one hell of a drug
A type change can make Pokemon with narrow counter play obnoxious, also some types are just good defensively to a point that it becomes match determinative

It's nowhere near as busted as dynamax, I don't think anything outside of Mega Fug compares to it, just a mechanic that can break certain matchups with too much ease

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:27:45 No.54705208 Report

Quoted By:

>>54702965
if you dont realize 6v6 singles is stupid them i guess you deserve to be a smogon fag, i mean you are literaly supporting these concil gays for posting it here already, just let them be forgotten and they will desapear, just like their stupid dead analysis in their website which nowdays are completely not existed, smogon is shit format just like 6v6, stop pretending to have fun making switches for 99 turns and using attacks in pivot walls like a faggot and play a superior format in 3v3 which is way more skill based and yo can use what you want

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:31:44 No.54705226 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705070
> personally i think suspects are a bit unfair because [bad players aren't allowed to vote]
That's the entire point though. So noobs that do not understand the game don't ruin things with their silly notions.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screen Shot 2023-10-18 at 9.30.5 (...).png, 1MiB, 1384x1040

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:37:19 No.54705250 Report

Quoted By: >>54705271

>>54705179
>>54705166
first of all finch lost (lol)
Anyways if we dont count the stall teams since that would just be unfair, theres 5 zapdos that spam roost, 1 toxapex outside of stall, 3 clefables outside of stall, and 1 corviknight outside of stall.
Meanwhile theres 1 band kart, one scarf kart, and the other kart just clicked knock off 1 time so idk the set. It seems like this sd kart theory doesnt pan out in the face of recover spam but i could check other weeks if you would like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:41:54 No.54705267 Report

Quoted By: >>54705284

>>54702965
Is this normal cause I don't remember Smogon being this clusterfucked with SuMo or Sw/Sh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:42:17 No.54705271 Report

Quoted By: >>54705275 >>54705308

>>54705250
To be charitable, are there any other wallbreakers who set up in front of recover spammers?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:43:14 No.54705275 Report

Quoted By: >>54705284

>>54705271
Nah G9 is the biggest PL spike ever and omgn the same faggots.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:44:37 No.54705284 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705275
Sorry, for >>54705267

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:47:56 No.54705304 Report

Quoted By: >>54705310

Posible stupid opinion alert: the old tiering naming convention doesn't really work anymore and smogon should just go by number. Like, I get that the tiering goes by usage, but shit's just so powercrept now that a label like "Ubers" means nothing.

Make Tier 0 with every Pokemon available and just go from there with a ".5" between each tier for a banlist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:48:46 No.54705307 Report

Quoted By: >>54705674

>>54705188
Roaring Moon already had Scale Shot. It was the only Pokemon that learned it prior to the DLC. It doesn't need it anyway. Roaring Moon doesn't run Dragon STAB. It runs Booster Energy + Tera Flying Acrobatics, Earthquake, Knock Off, and Dragon Dance

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:49:02 No.54705308 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705271
1 sd weavile (other one looked banded) 2 sd chomps 1 double dance landorus 1 iron defence body press corviknight

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:49:18 No.54705310 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705304
Roses and names anon. There is more pressing shit to deal with than names.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:54:43 No.54705334 Report

Quoted By: >>54705342

Ban tera. Holy shit, how is this broken mechanic still around?

At least give us a non-tera playlist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:55:59 No.54705336 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705182
Same type terastal Water Hydro Pump
>110*2=220
Unless I misremember and it is actually
>(110*1.5)*1.5=247.5
It also gives you almost free setup turns, let you get rid of weaknesses and more.
Z-moves are mild compared to Tera.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 16:56:58 No.54705342 Report

Quoted By: >>54705544

>>54705334
just play gen 6 or gen 7. much more positioning and long term planning and counterplay than this tera into your counter GG meta

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 17:08:39 No.54705394 Report

Quoted By: >>54705402

>>54705182
it's wild on setup sweepers who can just pull multiple free turns out of their asses with a type change, like volcarona for example.
>switch to counter in the QD
>oops it tera'd into a steel type and now your rock move does nothing and it QDs again for free
>if you're locked into that rock move or can't otherwise hit the steel type then that's a THIRD QD
>gg no re

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 17:09:07 No.54705395 Report

Quoted By:

Watching through the S/V replays its astounding how many games are lost to tspikes + kingambit or tera normal dragonite. at least half of the games are either won by these 2 or the other team is put into an unwinnable deficit because of kingambit

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 17:10:30 No.54705402 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705394
Wait they still didn't realize that gimmicking not taking a turn is bullshit? Bloody hell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 17:39:34 No.54705544 Report

Quoted By: >>54705553

>>54705342
>just play gen 6
Already do
>or 7
I despise Z moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 17:40:13 No.54705551 Report

Quoted By:

>>54702975
Ubers is OUBL

>>54703009
>BLBL
Fucking gross

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 17:41:33 No.54705553 Report

Quoted By: >>54705610

>>54705544
chegged, would you like to play a few games of gen 6 ou on showdown?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 17:58:04 No.54705610 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705553
I only play on cart. I love PSS too much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 18:01:08 No.54705623 Report

Quoted By: >>54705634

>>54702965
I already got reqs and will be voting do not ban because banhappy stalltrannies get the rope

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 18:02:47 No.54705634 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705623
>I already got reqs
Lel

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 18:05:22 No.54705655 Report

Quoted By: >>54705662

>>54704833
it is hyper offensive and stall faggots are SEETHING its hilarious

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 18:06:36 No.54705662 Report

Quoted By: >>54705681

>>54705655
stall is crazy good this gen too. its a see saw meta

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 18:10:11 No.54705674 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705307
I got reqs for this test using terablast fairy and it was gigabased (booster attack), knock & eq were my other moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 18:11:41 No.54705681 Report

Quoted By:

>>54705662
you can beat stall with hyper offense though, its not completely unwinnable 0-100 matchup. You just need to have a blackglasses kingambit and get an SD

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 19:50:24 No.54706115 Report

Quoted By:

>>54704781
>this looks like a classic case of finch's "i lost to (thing) so we have to suspect and ban it RIGHT NOW"
This.
Literally everyone was giving Roaring Moon a 3 on the forums. Finch brings a suspect and suddenly it's a major concern.
Smogonturds are impressionable retards

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 20:01:09 No.54706157 Report

Quoted By: >>54706639

>>54704781
Its because knockoff makes it stupid powerful
it is not broken, but it is very strong
I OHKO'd a tera fighting gholdengo with +2 knock (also attack booster)
straight up 100% and he's dead. a fucking gholdengo

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 21:49:04 No.54706639 Report

Quoted By: >>54706695

>>54706157
>I OHKO'd a tera fighting gholdengo with +2 knock (also attack booster)
Why would you knock on a fighting type
Why would Gholdengo Tera Fight on a Tera Flying Acrobatics mon?
Why would Ghold let you get +2?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 21:57:12 No.54706689 Report

Quoted By:

>>54704781
Roaring Moon is the most used mon at SCL (a big omgon) tournament last week

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2023 21:58:12 No.54706695 Report

Quoted By:

>>54706639
are you retarded? he knocked because gholdengo starts as a steel ghost. it tera fighting'd to stop the knock off that would otherwise hit the ghost super effectively. It was already +2 because it set up earlier
Im not even the anon and i could decipher this easily

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