>>56001826I found the HMs to be just as bad, if not worse in HGSS. I like Pt more.
I know a bunch of you are gonna be like "But Defog!", but Defog is A) Better than Flash was in the original Gen II, and B) Used in like four places. One of them is after-credits and entirely optional. One of them is a single room that you can run through in a straight line and not need Defog. And that leaves just two. Lost Tower is optional in Platinum, and also right next to Route 210, which is right before you go to Canalave, where the Move Deleter is. Every time I play Sinnoh, I put Defog on my bird/bat after I get my fifth badge (Be it Fantina or Wake), do Lost Tower, go to Celestic Town, and then go straight to Canalave and delete Defog. It's really not as bad as people insist it is.
And besides Lost Tower, you don't need Defog in any of them. If you want, you can just equip yourself with Swift/Magical Leaf/Shock Wave/Feint Attack/Magnet Bomb/Shadow Punch/Aerial Ace/Aura Sphere and leave the fog up, or even not do that and just suffer with the accuracy debuff.
Also Defog has at least been vindicated by history. If Defog's a TM in BD/SP for old time's sake, then the competitive people will love that. When was the last time any of you actually used Whirlpool?
Unlike Defog, Whirlpool has multiple areas that it's used in, where you have to use it, and while they do mostly only appear after you have access to the Move Deleter, they're not all located next to each other, and if you do get rid of it immediately after its mandatory story uses, you're still going to be blindsided by it in more places afterwards. Special mention to Route 27, which requires Whirlpool to fully navigate, but doesn't have a Pokemon Centre at either end. If you didn't bring a Water HM mule you've got to either backtrack to Cherrygrove or put it on a main Pokemon, which probably already has both Surf and Waterfall.
