/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #57712159

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Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 19:46:57 No.57712159 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>57712176 >>57712199 >>57712503 >>57712518 >>57712532 >>57712591 >>57713009 >>57713105 >>57713207 >>57713285 >>57714342 >>57714576 >>57716025

How do you justify hating the Phys/Spec Split with mons screwed over like this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 19:49:36 No.57712176 Report

Quoted By: >>57714342

>>57712159
You literally cannot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 19:52:47 No.57712196 Report

Quoted By: >>57713288

Feraligatr and Hitmonchan gained a bit of viability with gentle 4. I will always be grateful for the split.

The Sinnoh dex is ass though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 19:53:10 No.57712199 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712159
just buff her HP and SPD bro

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 21:12:45 No.57712503 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712159
The Phys/Spec split was good, not because it let Kingler use physical STABS moves, but because it made Skarmbliss actually killable without the need to use Blaziken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 21:16:26 No.57712518 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712159
Uh just run Shadow Ball chud!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 21:18:59 No.57712532 Report

Quoted By: >>57713599 >>57713641 >>57714365

>>57712159
You can't. Just like how you can't justify the Special Stat Split in GS screwing over 95% of mons while the main targets they were trying to nerf (Alakazam, Mewtwo, Mew) go completely unaffected, and in fact get BUFFED because now everything is specially weaker, and with Amnesia nerfed they no longer need to spend a vulnerable turn setting up to sweep and can instead go apeshit from the very start.
And in Alakazam's case with GS, it gets extremely valuable access to coverage in the form of the Elemental Punches, becoming even more unstoppable and even having an answer to Steel and Dark, the very types that were meant to counter Psychic (not that Dark was hitting most Psychic types hard in the first place given it's a special-oriented type against a type that's notoriously specially defensive).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 21:32:10 No.57712586 Report

Quoted By: >>57712602

you thought that hate was anything but an excuse to shitpost?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 21:33:23 No.57712591 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712159
how is it screwed over?

acerolanon !dG0Wk7ceN6

acerolanon !dG0Wk7ceN6 Sun 13 Apr 2025 21:36:44 No.57712602 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712586
honestly I always assumed it was some stupid levels of boomerposting .w.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 21:53:49 No.57712677 Report

Quoted By: >>57712691 >>57712733 >>57713027 >>57713073 >>57713402 >>57713774

It certainly accelerated the problem of power creep. Garchomp wouldn’t have been half as bad as it was if it didn’t have Dragon STAB running off it’s Physical Attack stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 21:56:51 No.57712691 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712677
That’s pretty hard to tell since Pokemon like Weavile and moves like Ice Shard likely wouldn’t exist.

acerolanon !dG0Wk7ceN6

acerolanon !dG0Wk7ceN6 Sun 13 Apr 2025 22:03:07 No.57712733 Report

Quoted By: >>57712790 >>57712826

>>57712677
...huh. I do wonder what a gen 4 metagame would look like if the split didn't happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 22:14:37 No.57712790 Report

Quoted By: >>57713018

>>57712733
Skarmory is invincible with access to Roost.
Blissey is still sturdy as ever.
Weavile sucks dick (female weavile still do though)
Gyarados is ass.
Physical dragons likely never go Uber.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 22:21:47 No.57712826 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712733
Instead of needing to add a strong Physical Fighting attack and a strong Special Fighting attack, GF only needs to add a single strong Fighting attack. They pick Focus Miss.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 22:53:39 No.57713009 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712159
Kingler still doesn't get any moves.
At least in gen 1 it had a guaranteed crit on Crabhammer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 22:55:00 No.57713018 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712790
Latias can spam Outrage over Draco Meteor.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 22:55:47 No.57713023 Report

Quoted By: >>57717109

>Kingler
>Screwed over
you dont know real pain

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 22:56:32 No.57713027 Report

Quoted By: >>57713034 >>57713083 >>57713626 >>57713631

>>57712677
you don't know what powercreep is and are a retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 22:59:10 No.57713034 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713027
Gen 4 power crept moves hard. Physical attackers got a bunch of new 100+BP moves with barely any downside, while most Psychic types got Focus Blast to deal with their dedicated counter types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 23:08:11 No.57713073 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712677
He would have edgequake

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 23:10:21 No.57713083 Report

Quoted By: >>57713761

>>57713027
Powercreep is when newer games give stronger options than the previous game.
Phys/Spec split is powercreep by its very nature since it means you can have both physical and special moves for any type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 23:15:03 No.57713105 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712159
Kingler had base 130 attack this whole time?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 23:39:42 No.57713207 Report

Quoted By: >>57713280

>>57712159
>move kingler to gen 4
>it's even worse because of power creep
I'm convinced the retards who screech about the split are just campaignshitters who are terrible at the game and don't know how to create any movesets except STAB with the highest stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 23:57:37 No.57713280 Report

Quoted By: >>57713310

>>57713207
Kingler NU in Gen 4 (and viable in UU (which is similar powerlevel to Gen 3 OU)) and PU in Gen 3.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Apr 2025 23:59:30 No.57713285 Report

Quoted By: >>57713300 >>57713302 >>57713339

>>57712159

How do you fix kingler?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:00:04 No.57713288 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712196
Not anymore. Power creep is just too much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:03:17 No.57713300 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713285
Give it an evolution. 475 BST isn’t enough to cut it even in lower tiers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:03:25 No.57713302 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713285
You can't without either giving it a brand new evolution or a regional replacement (that can also have an evolution), since both allow it to get far better abilities and a better stat spread.
But at that point you're not really fixing Kingler itself, so in actuality it's permanently fucked because GameFreak typically doesn't like giving major overhauls to Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:05:10 No.57713310 Report

Quoted By: >>57713349 >>57713387

>>57713280
Kingler is viable in NU in Gen 3 and not viable in NU in Gen 4.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:10:23 No.57713339 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713285
The same way I'd fix Tauros. Ground and fighting-type physical moves with secondary effects that have at least 80 power. And maybe giving Kingler access to Ice Punch, just because.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:12:55 No.57713349 Report

Quoted By: >>57713363

>>57713310
It’s viable in Gen 4 UU
https://www.smogon.com/dex/dp/pokemon/kingler/
And Gen 4 UU is about as strong as Gen 3 OU. Similarly, Gen 4 NU is stronger than Gen 3 NU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:15:13 No.57713363 Report

Quoted By: >>57713403

>>57713349
>It’s viable in Gen 4 UU
No it isn't. It's not even listed in the viability rankings for NU let alone UU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:18:51 No.57713387 Report

Quoted By: >>57713545

>>57713310
>check Kingler's Gen 3 page
>it says PU
You sure about that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:22:04 No.57713402 Report

Quoted By: >>57714199

>>57712677
Would Outrage even be problem if it wasn't buffed to 120 BP?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:22:28 No.57713403 Report

Quoted By: >>57713545

>>57713363
Kingler's Gen 4 page is about how it's viable in UU.
Also play the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:45:35 No.57713510 Report

Quoted By: >>57713544

The physical/special split was necessary. Otherwise you'd just have too few options for pokemon of each type. The game's better off having fire types that can be physically or specially based, for example. The old way was just too restrictive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:51:55 No.57713537 Report

Quoted By:

physical special split was the single greatest change to pokemon battle mechanics ever made
it was always retarded that EVERY single pokemon of a single type would have to use the exact same attacking stat no matter what their design was

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:53:01 No.57713544 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713510
Except you still have Electric being primarily special and Fighting being primarily physical, because moves of the opposite category are pure dogshit outside of special snowflake shill moves that don't help old mons who desperately need the support.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:53:14 No.57713545 Report

Quoted By: >>57713558 >>57713585 >>57713589

>>57713403
>Kingler's Gen 4 page is about how it's viable in UU.
Except it isn't viable in UU. Play the game.

>>57713387
>check Kingler's Gen 3 viability listing page
>it says it's viable in NU
You sure about that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:54:29 No.57713558 Report

Quoted By: >>57713575

>>57713545
Post a link to it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:56:25 No.57713568 Report

Quoted By:

>M-MUH KINGLER
A shitmon who's been total garbage since debut? Its sole novelty was Crabhammer, a move that only has boosted crit rate to offset its poor Special so it can use its STAB effectively, but otherwise it's just a poor man's Body Slammer, outclassed by Tauros and Snorlax.
Dex filler, if you will. An easy NPC opponent for your mons to tear into so every battle isn't an unreasonable challenge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:57:47 No.57713575 Report

Quoted By: >>57713610 >>57713731

>>57713558
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/adv-nu-viability-ranking-found-new-host.3503540/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dpp-nu-viability-ranking.3512254/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:58:41 No.57713579 Report

Quoted By: >>57713637

How to fix Kingler without an evolution.
>Buff Hyper Cutter so that instead of just ignoring Atk stat drops from the opponent, it also ignores your own from moves like Superpower + If another Pokemon would have lowered your Atk stat, you gain +1 Atk instead
>Buff Crabhammer to be 100% accurate and have a 10% chance to raise Def
>Gains new crab based move called Crab Dance, which raises Atk, SpD, and Spe by 1 stage
>Also gains a physical water type signature move that is 90 BP, has a 100% chance to lower the target's Spe by 2 stages, and bypasses Protect while dealing half damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 00:59:57 No.57713585 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713545
>staring at viability rankings instead of playing the game
play the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:02:09 No.57713589 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713545
btw I'm trans and think Kingler's worse off with physical STAB if that matters at all.

DoctorGreen !DRgReeNusk

DoctorGreen !DRgReeNusk Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:05:11 No.57713599 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712532
>You can't. Just like how you can't justify the Special Stat Split in GS screwing over 95% of mons while the main targets they were trying to nerf (Alakazam, Mewtwo, Mew) go completely unaffected, and in fact get BUFFED because now everything is specially weaker, and with Amnesia nerfed they no longer need to spend a vulnerable turn setting up to sweep and can instead go apeshit from the very start.
>And in Alakazam's case with GS, it gets extremely valuable access to coverage in the form of the Elemental Punches, becoming even more unstoppable and even having an answer to Steel and Dark, the very types that were meant to counter Psychic (not that Dark was hitting most Psychic types hard in the first place given it's a special-oriented type against a type that's notoriously specially defensive)
nothing more than the utter TRUTH

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:07:11 No.57713610 Report

Quoted By: >>57713620 >>57713621

>>57713575
>2014
Why are you so fucking retarded yawn?
It's PU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:10:01 No.57713620 Report

Quoted By: >>57713661

>>57713610
>It's PU.
And it's viable in NU. Unlike Gen 4 where it's not viable at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:10:11 No.57713621 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713610
>Last edited: Jun 5, 2024

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:11:51 No.57713626 Report

Quoted By: >>57713779

>>57713027

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:13:34 No.57713631 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713027
I agree, Outrage going from 90 bp to 120 bp isn’t power creep

DoctorGreen !DRgReeNusk

DoctorGreen !DRgReeNusk Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:14:43 No.57713637 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713579
>>Gains new crab based move called Crab Dance, which raises Atk, SpD, and Spe by 1 stage
SMACK MY BITCH UP
*moves to left and right*

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:15:51 No.57713641 Report

Quoted By: >>57713652

>>57712532
Are you sure that was the reason, and not someone looking at how it was weird attack and defense were two stats, but special was one?

DoctorGreen !DRgReeNusk

DoctorGreen !DRgReeNusk Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:18:12 No.57713652 Report

Quoted By: >>57713667

>>57713641
>but special was one?
it obviously followed bleach's rules: the weaker special always get hurt
>inb4 pokemon comes first
no

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:20:10 No.57713661 Report

Quoted By: >>57713731

>>57713620
>Unlike Gen 4 where it's not viable at all.
Source?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:22:09 No.57713667 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713652
The best offense is a good defense, so the only stats should be Hit Points, Physical, Special, and Speed.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:30:21 No.57713697 Report

Quoted By: >>57713739

I know this is hard to hear, but not every Pokémon is made to be "viably good" in battle. Many are created to be cool or cute or quirky or endearing and that is just it. Some are designed to be shitmon, and the nature of powercreep leaves even midly viable Pokémon scraping into shitmon after all these generations having to add more powerful new Pokémon. It is what it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:39:36 No.57713731 Report

Quoted By: >>57713802

>>57713661
>>57713575

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:42:39 No.57713739 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713697
this. some Pokémon (aka none of my faves) just deserve to be shitmons

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:46:43 No.57713761 Report

Quoted By: >>57713794

>>57713083
>Powercreep is when newer games give stronger options than the previous game.
it is specifically when new options continually make the old options obsolete. the new stuff is made to be stronger than ever before because that gets people excited, while the old stuff isn't given any buffs to help it keep up and gets outclassed,
>Phys/Spec split is powercreep by its very nature since it means you can have both physical and special moves for any type.
and you can have them on any pokemon from any generation. this is the opposite of power creep. this is exactly what powercreep is not. the physical/special split did not make older pokemon obsolete, it made them better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:49:39 No.57713774 Report

Quoted By: >>57713791

>>57712677
>This Pokemon specifically made to take advantage of the new system wouldn't have been half as bad if it couldn't take advantage of the new system

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:50:25 No.57713779 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713626
>.gif

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:53:56 No.57713791 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713774
>This Pokemon [FANFIC]

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:54:33 No.57713794 Report

Quoted By: >>57713799 >>57714143

>>57713761
>the physical/special split did not make older pokemon obsolete, it made them better.
Alakazam lost viable coverage when the Elemental Punches became physical, and also started having to wear Focus Sash by default thanks to Sucker Punch giving virtually any mon with a respectable attack stat the ability to OHKO it. And then if it survives whatever Alakazam dishes out, it can easily go for the kill, whether by hitting whatever Alakazam is switched out for, or correctly calling another attack that can be Sucker Punched again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:58:17 No.57713799 Report

Quoted By: >>57713843

>>57713794
>sucker punch
move introduced in gen 4, not relevant to this discussion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 01:59:31 No.57713802 Report

Quoted By: >>57714145 >>57714210

>>57713731
The argument here is just nonsense. Kingler is ranked PU and it's not even listed very highly in these Gen 3 NU discussions. It's best moves are just Normal, it's walled easily. I'm just supposed to ignore all that because Gen 4 doesn't talk about it much even though the Gen 4 description talks way more about it threatens mons that are actually UU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 02:07:59 No.57713825 Report

Quoted By:

pokemon as a whole got massively DE-powercrept in gen 3 with the changes to ivs/evs

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 02:12:17 No.57713843 Report

Quoted By: >>57713850

>>57713799
Yes, but it was very clearly meant to capitalize on being a physical move. If it were special, Alakazam wouldn't be nearly as threatened due to its respectable SpD, because very few mons could actually utilize it effectively, like Gengar.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 02:15:05 No.57713850 Report

Quoted By: >>57713874

>>57713843
>Yes, but it was very clearly meant to capitalize on being a physical move.
no it wasn't
/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 02:15:48 No.57713855 Report

Quoted By: >>57713868 >>57713872

>57713023
>it’s this autist again
Sneasel got an evo in the same Gen it got “screwed over,” fucktard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 02:19:00 No.57713868 Report

Quoted By: >>57715685

>>57713855
anon, he means sneasel was fucked over pre-split

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 02:20:30 No.57713872 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713855
How do I use Weavile in UU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 02:20:59 No.57713874 Report

Quoted By: >>57713882 >>57713883

>>57713850
Yes it was. There's a fraction of Pokemon who learn Sucker Punch that would benefit from it being Special like other Pre-PSS Dark Moves, but it was blatantly distributed to all sorts of physical attackers who love the fact it's a physical move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 02:23:47 No.57713882 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713874
the simple fact that the move is called sucker PUNCH explains why it was given to physical attackers, irrespective of if it used physical or special attack
and if you dont believe me see the gen 3 elemental punches

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 02:23:47 No.57713883 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713874
>There's a fraction of Pokemon who learn Sucker Punch that would benefit from it being Special like other Pre-PSS Dark Moves, but it was blatantly distributed to all sorts of physical attackers who love the fact it's a physical move.
yeah maybe because it's a physical move you fucking idiot

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 03:51:50 No.57714143 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713794
252 SpA 30 IVs Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 266-314 (105.5 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Cacturne Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 302-356 (119.8 - 141.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
172 SpA Gengar Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 190-224 (75.3 - 88.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 260-308 (103.1 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 266-314 (105.5 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Alakazam still gets OHKOd by would-be special sucker punches (Dark Pulse has same BP in Gen 4), except now a teammate can't halve their damage with burns.
Also Shadow Ball/Focus Blast > Meme Punches.
If you want to hit Dragonite really badly, you can just use HP Ice (Only 5 BP less in Gen 4), which is better anyways because it doesn't make contact.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 03:52:33 No.57714145 Report

Quoted By: >>57714180 >>57714249

>>57713802
>The argument here is just nonsense. Kingler is ranked PU and it's not even listed very highly in these Gen 3 NU discussions.
And it's ranked even lower in the Gen 4 NU discussions.

>It's best moves are just Normal
Damn good thing it can use more than normal moves then, huh?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 04:02:03 No.57714180 Report

Quoted By:

>>57714145
What race are you yawn? This is on topic to the conversation I promise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 04:10:08 No.57714199 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713402
Nope, Dragon claw would be better

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 04:13:22 No.57714210 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713802
You’re supposed to take the viability rankings more into account because they actually get updated semi-regularly

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 04:25:14 No.57714249 Report

Quoted By:

>>57714145
If you didn't have breakfast this morning, how would you feel?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 04:59:30 No.57714342 Report

Quoted By: >>57715317

>>57712159
>>57712176
Gen 3 and earlier mons were balanced around the physical special split, and many (very good) mons lacked good STAB and that helped to keep them in check.
Phy/Special split homogenized the game and contributed to rampant power creep.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 05:04:35 No.57714365 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712532
Alakazam is pretty niche in GSC and Mewtwo/Mew are noticeably worse than Lugia/Ho-oh.
>Amnesia got heavily nerfed which is a buff for Pokemon that used it (also only one mon you mentioned even used it in the first place)
Anyway you're obviously a fucking idiot and GSC was a slow game defined by powerful electric type sweepers and the ever present threat of Snorlax (the strongest OU Pokemon that has ever existed).
>f-f-f-fuck smo-
If you're talking in game then Typhlosion can just sweep everything, you don't need a fragile Alakazam with all the growing pains of Abra.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 06:35:17 No.57714576 Report

Quoted By:

>>57712159
actually Kingler was cool in Gen 1.

although its SpAtk was awful, Crabhammer was a guaranteed crit move at 90 BP.
Which means Kingler had a 180 BP STAB Special Attack as an option on top of its physical moves, so even with 50 SpAtk Crabhammer was very useful and made him a mixed attacker.
Also it's cool that his signature move was so useful. Wish they did similar stuff with other signature moves, the only other cool one is what, Hi Jump Kick?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 12:05:41 No.57715317 Report

Quoted By: >>57715936

>>57714342
you don't know what power creep is

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 14:48:51 No.57715685 Report

Quoted By:

>57713872
you can’t, but you can use Sneasel
>>57713868
now he’ll bring up Sneasel being RU in Gen 3, but NU in Gen 4

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 16:20:21 No.57715936 Report

Quoted By: >>57715985 >>57716018 >>57716034

>>57715317
Close Combat, Draco Meteor, Outrage being made physical, previously balanced mons like Salamence becoming overpowered, etc etc
All power creep.
>b-but it doesn't count as powercreep if it also makes older mons stronger
Damage goes up, and Pokemon that didn't get a power boost from the mechanical changes get powercrept by mons that did. Several very good and well balanced mons objectively got powercrept going from gen 3 to 4, and it was in part because of the changes made to coverage thanks to the physical/special split.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 16:33:30 No.57715985 Report

Quoted By: >>57715991

>>57715936
Prior to it getting Multiscale, Dragonite was powercrept by Salamance. The latter was just better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 16:35:18 No.57715991 Report

Quoted By:

>>57715985
Dragonite was always kind of shit though. Its only use in Gen 1 was wrap spam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 16:42:33 No.57716018 Report

Quoted By: >>57716023 >>57716025

>>57715936
>Outrage being made physical, previously balanced mons like Salamence becoming overpowered, etc etc
this is not power creep. you don't know what power creep is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 16:44:06 No.57716023 Report

Quoted By:

>>57716018
>literally "nuh-uh"
Jesus this board really is full of children.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 16:45:04 No.57716025 Report

Quoted By: >>57716028 >>57716128

>>57712159
Claiming the phys/spec split is good because it makes Kingler better is as retarded as claiming Dynamax is good because it makes Kingler better.

>>57716018
>this is not power creep
Yes it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 16:45:37 No.57716028 Report

Quoted By:

>>57716025
no it isn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 16:47:23 No.57716034 Report

Quoted By:

>>57715936
Close Combat and Draco Meteor would still be physical and special respectfully.
Outrage had lower BP in Gen 3 and if it was special, it would still be used by dragons like Latias or even Salamence its still has good special attack.
What the Phys/Spec split did was make Pokemon like Skarmory and Blissey much easier to break down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 17:03:22 No.57716128 Report

Quoted By: >>57716144

>>57716025
Are you saying Dynamax is bad?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 17:07:08 No.57716144 Report

Quoted By:

>>57716128
Are you saying Dynamax is good?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Apr 2025 21:08:11 No.57717109 Report

Quoted By:

>>57713023
autism

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