/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #58683057

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Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 15:29:59 No.58683057 View View Reply Original Report

Find a solution for slow-frail-mix-attackers.
(no stat changes)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 15:31:01 No.58683058 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
An evolution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 15:33:10 No.58683067 Report

Quoted By:

Game Freak not being shit?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 15:33:21 No.58683070 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
More priority moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 15:35:29 No.58683078 Report

Quoted By: >>58683325

>>58683057
Megas(powercreep)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 15:39:39 No.58683084 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
more strong priority options
sucker punch is good, for maybe:

Verdant Reap (Grass, Special, +1 priority)
It's a priority move because it harvests what has been sown before. The drawback is that it takes 25% of your HP because you're depleting your stocks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 15:42:06 No.58683094 Report

Quoted By:

Give her Sturdy. That way she could survive at least the first attack. Or Quick draw to use a focus sash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 16:18:03 No.58683187 Report

Quoted By: >>58683247 >>58687248 >>58687266 >>58687438

>>58683057
ZA's real time combat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 16:41:22 No.58683247 Report

Quoted By: >>58687248

>>58683187
NOBODY is ready for this TRVKE

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 16:48:20 No.58683266 Report

Quoted By:

what about an item that boosts both atk and spatk but the boost is stronger the closer the two stats are to begin with, and if they are too far apart, it nerfs one to boost the other. perhaps up to 1.3x to both if close or 1.4x to one and 0.6x to the other if far apart.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 17:03:06 No.58683311 Report

Quoted By: >>58683318 >>58684331 >>58684386 >>58684789 >>58686503

>>58683057
>make a pokemon with evasion boosting ability in mind
>Shtigon bans all evasion abilities
Play the real game

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 17:05:30 No.58683318 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683311
this thing isn’t good in the real game either retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 17:08:56 No.58683325 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683078
>Slow frail mixed attacker but without a free item slot now

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 17:10:23 No.58683329 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
>Find a solution for slow-frail-mix-attackers.
Just don't make them mixed attackers then? no one is going to use a mixed attacker with less than 600 BST

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 17:15:49 No.58683346 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
An ability or move that lets their offensive stats help them tank damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 17:35:26 No.58683406 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
ability that raises speed and suuuuper powerful moves for both stats. like give this thing powerwhip as well as leafstorm, something like earth power and maybe focus blast. all while giving it sand rush. boom. new sand abuser that doesn't fill any of the niches that any other sand abuser can do. all while being a little unpredictable about which set it has (though you'll know that it always would have sucker punch). i call this strategy "iron valiant maxing". would likely not work too well in ou, but could in a lower power level like ru or maybe nu.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 21:58:58 No.58684331 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683311
>only good if spams evasion
>still gets kek'd by aerial ace
lmao what a shitmon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 22:06:03 No.58684361 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
Fighting slower frail mix attackers

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 22:11:39 No.58684386 Report

Quoted By: >>58684397

>>58683311
>gamefreak makes a mon with evasion boosting ability in mind
>it's extremely annoying and unfun to fight against, purely luck-based if it works or not, and allows for no skill in any competitive metagame, whether that's smogon singles or vgc
>literally nobody likes it because it was poorly designed
>but because le omgon banneded it it's good, actually

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 22:14:04 No.58684397 Report

Quoted By:

>>58684386
more like
>shit in smogon but annoying to fight against and turns matches more rng-based than they need to be
>shit in vgc
>but because it’s banned in smogon I need to pretend it’s good in vgc

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 22:18:14 No.58684413 Report

Quoted By: >>58684419

Mixed attackers are a failure to begin with
unless you're an OP legendary like fug or have a shit ton of base stats like dragapult all mixed attackers will hit like a wet noodle infernape is never going to do jackshit with 104 ATK and 104 SPATK despite having speed as well

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 22:21:24 No.58684419 Report

Quoted By: >>58684443

>>58684413
infernape was good in gen 4

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 22:27:02 No.58684443 Report

Quoted By: >>58684451

>>58684419
>Was

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 22:29:34 No.58684451 Report

Quoted By: >>58687255

>>58684443
>never
Clearly there are circumstances in which mixed attacking is appropriate. Hell, there are a good number of mixed attackers in OU right now...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 22:47:53 No.58684500 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
Higher alternate attack stat = higher crit rate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 22:52:59 No.58684510 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
Revert physical special split

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Nov 2025 23:44:49 No.58684662 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
The final solution is just accepting they're shit and that you wouldn't play competitively even if they were magically meta somehow

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 00:12:53 No.58684747 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
I'm just glad he at least has Sucker Punch, fuck GameFreak for nerfing it though.
I still hope one day they will make something new and interesting with my favorite Pokemon, I was thinking either an evolution (good or bad, he'd at least get evio use out of it), or a Snowman convergent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 00:28:06 No.58684789 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
Split evolution, one for ATK, one for SpA.

>>58683311
Smogon just keeps RNG to a minimum, which is a plus for me. (I don't play Smogon.)
I hate it when I'm playing some RPG and miss six times in a row with a high-accuracy build or the enemy lands some 5% chance instakill move.
It only makes sense to minimize RNG shit in competitive games, too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 00:42:35 No.58684836 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
Add an over 60bp priority move to the game, that has the downside it always uses the mons lowest attacking stat.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 12:40:51 No.58686242 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 12:43:06 No.58686244 Report

Quoted By:

the fabled "trick room on switch-in" ability will bring salvation to slow frail mixed attackers

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 13:30:27 No.58686325 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
Protect
Speedboost

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 14:05:02 No.58686381 Report

Quoted By:

Brambleghast is basically what Cacturne should have been, except Cacturne should have an ability that makes it immune to Flying moves in general (it's a scarecrow) instead of just wind moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 14:08:28 No.58686390 Report

Quoted By: >>58686668

>>58683057
Better abilities, that's it.
Cacturne would still be shit if you swapped its speed with one of its attacking stats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 15:14:33 No.58686503 Report

Quoted By: >>58686802

>>58683311
you really pissed off the smogontrannoes with this one

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 15:59:43 No.58686621 Report

Quoted By: >>58686817

>>58683057
Unique abilities and priority moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 16:04:18 No.58686640 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
Ability Expert: all its special moves become physical

Ability Specialist: all its physical moves become special

Item Glass Shield: reducing damage by halve, if HP's full (one time use per battle)

Item Roller Skates: 30% increasing speed for any damage moves (can't use non attack moves)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 16:09:49 No.58686655 Report

Quoted By:

give them all prankster and an overpowered signature move

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 16:16:35 No.58686668 Report

Quoted By:

>>58686390
The really shitty thing is that nowadays we have mons with minmaxed stats, good moves AND great abilities on top.
A few days ago there was a thread comparing Regirock to Garganacl, even with the lower BST Garganacl is just better than Regirock in every way, and that's before you even factor in Purifying Salt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 17:07:42 No.58686797 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
A new widely distributed move that uses the average between physical and special attack of the user, and is also 80 BP priority move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 17:11:50 No.58686802 Report

Quoted By: >>58687273

>>58686503
don’t lump me in with them you cockgargler. implying cacturne is good in vgc is plain bullshit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 17:15:04 No.58686808 Report

Quoted By:

Prankster prob idk

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 17:15:10 No.58686809 Report

Quoted By:

EVs now have diminishing returns beyond 100 so unga bunga 252 is no longer optimal

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 17:17:56 No.58686817 Report

Quoted By:

>>58686621
Ticking Bomb (Fire, 100 BP, priority):
The user gets ready to blow up right at the start of the turn and explodes at the end. If an opponent hits it this turn it gets double damage. It can't be defused, even if has 0 HP it's going to explode anyway. After the blast, the user loses 50% of its max HP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 18:26:21 No.58686968 Report

Quoted By:

Easy, increase the EV's cap so you can max out both attack types and speed

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 18:49:14 No.58687026 Report

Quoted By:

The offensive stat not used in a move's damage calculation boosts the Pokémon's crit rate

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 20:09:31 No.58687239 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
Broken Abilities
Otherwise you would have to reinvent the whole game. Mixed attackers should be a rarer gimmick, as should pokemon that can defend well against both the offense stats. Only pokemon with good defensive typings can get away being frail and slow, so that disqualifies Cacturne. Most SFMAs should not even be SFMAs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 20:13:12 No.58687248 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683187
>>58683247
There were slow frail mixed attackers in ZA and they still sucked

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 20:16:46 No.58687255 Report

Quoted By:

>>58684451
>there are a good number of mixed attackers in OU
That's because with mixed attackers, you're playing mind games, and can really fuck up your opponent's momentum. Outside of turbo competitive, mixed attackers suck

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 20:20:48 No.58687266 Report

Quoted By:

being slow and frail is just a death sentence in a turn based format so >>58683187 might actually be right
if you're going to be frail you need to be fast so you can act before you go down
if you're going to be slow you need to be bulky so you don't go down before you act
SFMA has neither so it just dies before it gets to take advantage of its strengths

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 20:23:34 No.58687273 Report

Quoted By:

>>58686802
damn he got the vgctrannies seething too kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 21:23:16 No.58687424 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
Good moves that use both attacking stats.
The moves themselves would have to be very strong to justify this, things like no-condition sucker punch, 110, 120 BP moves with 100 accuracy and no downside, ect. Used by a single stat pokemon they're too weak, but may occasionally serve utility purposes, but become proper terrors in the right hands.
Naturally, these will immediately be used by things like pseudos and legendaries that have inflated "off" stats, not actually pokemon like Cacturne.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 21:28:24 No.58687438 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683187
No
Super no
ZA rewards bulk more than anything else, with second place going to a pokemon's personal animation speeds. The way to win in ZA is be a bulky physical attacker, with fast animations, and good STAB moves, because doubling up on STAB types is actually a good idea. Speed is significantly less important, being special (and not having Drain Kiss or Freeze Dry) is an immediate punch to the gut of your viability.
Shit like Cacturne is arguably even WORSE in ZA, because their offenses are noticably lower, and are thus buttfucked more by the across the board damage nerf.
They are doing less damage, while STILL being oneshot by other pokemon also suffering the same offensive nerf.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Dec 2025 22:02:11 No.58687542 Report

Quoted By:

>>58683057
Make it possible to max out EVs again

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