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Saito Tamaki the psychiatrist gave me an example; there's an artist who is drawing fiction, and this fiction is something that they desire. I look at the picture it's a caterpillar, the caterpillar looks to have a male face, it's a cute youthful looking face, that caterpillar then encounters another caterpillar, and the two are depicted having sex. What am I to do about this? They appear to be boys, they appear to be young, they are caterpillars. Ok, how do we interpret this? And he says it would be a kind of gross reduction to assume that we knew what this means when if you have a photograph, a photograph is something that is actually here so if you take a picture of a young person engaged in a sexual context you are in fact taking a photograph of something that actually exists, of a crime, of an abuse, of a sexualization objectivation of a person. What about the caterpillar? That is not an arbitrary distinction, in fact, that caterpillar and that child are not the same thing, they are qualitatively fundamentally different things. The people drawing and consuming the caterpillar are not the same circulating the little girl's photos.