/vt/ - Virtual YouTubers » Thread #11861074

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Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:00:48 No.11861074 View View Reply Original Report

When will 2views ever learn?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:16:53 No.11861699 Report

Quoted By: >>11864623 >>11881090 >>11896346

Wait vtubers have to pay their artists? I thought artists did it for free.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:18:50 No.11861771 Report

Quoted By:

>Just work for free bro, I'll pay you in clout.
A grift as old as time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:20:01 No.11861810 Report

Quoted By: >>11862130 >>11887445

>>11861074
Can't you just search for a artist with a one-time fee?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:21:40 No.11861867 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
Never, that's why they don't grow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:24:26 No.11861954 Report

Quoted By: >>11862188 >>11880369 >>11881356 >>11887445 >>11936845

>>11861074
Oh my god, who gives a shit. One retard acts like a retard and every turns the retard into the topic for the day as they all make themselves feel better for not being that retard when infact they are retarded. Twitter is the biggest cesspit on the internet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:26:44 No.11862020 Report

Quoted By: >>11872913

They're not talking about paying for the commission, ESLtards
A commercial fee is an extra fee you pay to use the art for commercial purposes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:29:51 No.11862130 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861810
y-yea sure but it's gonna be e x p e n s i v e

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:31:33 No.11862188 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861954
Based and true

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:33:08 No.11862240 Report

Quoted By: >>11877770 >>11887445

>>11861074
Just commission third world artists that live know nothing of vtubing and dont live in the same country you do. This trick works better when its a porn artist using a penname as they wont have the gall to sue you.

That's how you avoid commercial fees

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:35:36 No.11862346 Report

Quoted By: >>11864519 >>11864650 >>11875381 >>11887445

I never understand the point between personal use and commercial fees, just price it all in together. Tacking on a higher price just for commercial use is just a way for artists to charge double.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:35:56 No.11862365 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
Not only a 2view but a fucking vtweeter
>>>/trash/wvt

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:38:39 No.11862458 Report

Quoted By: >>11865450 >>11865474 >>11892836

That first post has nothing to do with the second.
>I don't use artists who charge commercial fees
>You MUST pay the fees
>But I don't use artists who charge commercial fees.
>PAY THE FEES

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 05:42:30 No.11862568 Report

Quoted By: >>11864537 >>11887445

>commercial fees
What? I thought it was one time payment, upfront.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 06:47:20 No.11864519 Report

Quoted By: >>11864630 >>11866888 >>11887445

>>11862346
It's because you are profiting off of their work. The entire concept of commercial fees is good because it helps ensure you aren't just ripping someone off so you can profit from their work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 06:48:04 No.11864537 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11862568
No some of them are kikes

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 06:50:07 No.11864594 Report

Quoted By: >>11866973 >>11887445 >>11896770

>>11861074
what the fuck is this autist babbling about? commercial fees are a one time payment included in the base price and is the main reason good models are expensive already. why make 20 seethe tweets about something everyone already does. oh wait, the real reason is when they start talking about how they want a 5% royalty on their art kek. when will artists learn? art is literally not hard unless you are in the top 0.5%. you are providing a service, not a product. if you expect a 5% royalty for a fucking stream overlay like he does then you need meds

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 06:51:24 No.11864623 Report

Quoted By: >>11864656 >>11887445 >>11893783

>>11861699
are. . . are you being serious?
the fuck is wrong with you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 06:51:37 No.11864630 Report

Quoted By: >>11865336 >>11887445 >>11890473

>>11864519
How is it ripping someone off? You bought the model, presumably to use it to make money, not to fuck around with on your own. Who would commission a vtuber model without the intent to use it for commercial purposes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 06:52:15 No.11864650 Report

Quoted By: >>11864978 >>11887445

>>11862346
Not everyone is a vtuber or someone else who needs to use the art commercially. Sometimes you just want someone to just draw your OC or some shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 06:52:26 No.11864656 Report

Quoted By: >>11890035 >>11926234

>>11864623
never mind I get it. I'm retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 06:54:16 No.11864714 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
Why don't these 2views literally just learn how to draw?
Half of these designs I see from indies are legitimately something you could manage in a few months of earnest practice, and that's being generous. Some indies have godawful models.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:04:08 No.11864963 Report

Quoted By:

And that's why you always make people sign written contracts if you want to make it as an artist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:04:53 No.11864978 Report

Quoted By: >>11865234 >>11865427 >>11888998

>>11864650
And that matters, why?
Same product delivered, same amount of work.
Should a restaurant charge extra for business lunches? Should a taxi charge extra if you're taking it to your job?
What the fuck makes you think you're entitled to more pay because your client is going to use their commission for a business venture?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:09:54 No.11865079 Report

Quoted By:

>commission art from a zhang
>80 dollers for one drawing
>use it as Twitter banner
>sir you did not read my tos!! do not redeem the image sir give me 200 dollers!!! DO NOT REDEEEM
this is why I don’t give a fuck about these starving artist larpers. they pull this shit all the time. who the fuck do they think they are?
nobody is against commercial fees. the tweet he showed has 1 like and 71 quote tweets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:11:42 No.11865119 Report

Quoted By: >>11865770 >>11865802 >>11865876 >>11872335 >>11875605 >>11892384 >>11923083

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srrr7k
BREAKDOWN
BREAKDOWN

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:13:56 No.11865164 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
why are 2views mentally ill. have you noticed that

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:17:04 No.11865234 Report

Quoted By: >>11865331

>>11864978
When a business commissions a design, they hope it will make them millions.
When an individual commissions a design, they hope it will make them feel something.
It's not about how much the work is valued, it's about how much the product is worth to the consumer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:21:32 No.11865331 Report

Quoted By: >>11865380

>>11865234
So you agree that it's is just an excuse for the artist to charge more for no value added?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:21:38 No.11865336 Report

Quoted By: >>11865372 >>11865469 >>11878436 >>11888813

>>11864630
You are ripping them off by using their work to make even more money than you are paying them and you want it at dirt cheap prices.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:23:30 No.11865372 Report

Quoted By: >>11865403 >>11865423

>>11865336
They're the ones that set the price. Set it for what you want or what you think you can earn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:23:34 No.11865375 Report

Quoted By: >>11879500

>>11861074
>Give me shit for free and I'll give you EXPOSURE
Damn I thought this retardation was reserved for boomers, didn't expect vtubers to try that shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:23:45 No.11865380 Report

Quoted By: >>11871235

>>11865331
The value is determined by the consumer. If you expect to make money with something, it is worth more to you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:25:08 No.11865403 Report

Quoted By: >>11865469 >>11865507 >>11871271

>>11865372
That's what they're doing. It makes perfect sense to charge different rates between people who want to use a thing for personal use and those who want to use it for commercial purposes. You see that price structure in software all the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:25:12 No.11865404 Report

Quoted By:

Only company vtubers should pay commercial fees.

If you're an indie they can fuck off

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:26:12 No.11865423 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865372
Okay, that's exactly what the commercial fee is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:26:32 No.11865427 Report

Quoted By:

>>11864978
>What the fuck makes you think you're entitled to more pay because your client is going to use their commission for a business venture?
That's quite literally how all business shit works, retard. Nothing entitled about it. What makes you think you are entitled to use someone else's work commercially without paying extra commercial fees for it? Commercial use always has extra fees attached. Don't like it? Make shit yourself

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:27:50 No.11865443 Report

Quoted By:

>expecting compensation from dirt poor indies
Delusional

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:28:05 No.11865447 Report

Quoted By: >>11865482 >>11865658 >>11865872 >>11879183 >>11887445

>>11861074
Why is Hana getting herself into drama again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:28:17 No.11865450 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11862458
Welcome to the clown world.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:29:30 No.11865469 Report

Quoted By: >>11865530

>>11865336
By your logic the streamer is ripping off their ISP for using their internet to make money.
They're also ripping off the place where they bought their streaming equipment.
They're ripping off the place they buy their groceries.

>>11865403
No you don't, professional software comes with extra support. It's not just an extra fee for no reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:29:52 No.11865474 Report

Quoted By: >>11870340

>>11862458
>I don't use artists who charge commercial fees because I think muh exposure is enough compensation

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:30:37 No.11865482 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865447
Liking something is barely doing shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:32:15 No.11865507 Report

Quoted By: >>11865547

>>11865403
Just set it for one price. No one is gonna use vtuber assets and models for non-commercial purposes. Just seems like a way to pretend your stuff is cheaper than it is and come back to hit up someone for more money when you "shockingly" discover they are using commercial assets for commercial purposes.

Just: "I make vtuber models. The price is 3k per model." or whatever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:33:19 No.11865530 Report

Quoted By: >>11865705

>>11865469
Bad analogy. The internet is a resource/service you are paying to gain access to. All that stream gear and various things intended for professional/commercial use literally are at higher premium prices, retard. Unless they are using some cheap mic and shit all those parts have commercial fees apart of their normal pricing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:34:07 No.11865547 Report

Quoted By: >>11870974

>>11865507
They're talking about artists and artists do more than just vtuber designs. Commissioning a piece of art for personal use is different than commissioning a piece of art that's going to be the core part of a business.She's bitching that they charge more for a vtuber design than some dudes personal furry porn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:36:44 No.11865594 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
if it's not in the contract, you don't owe them shit. when commissioning an artist, also make sure they agree to surrender all rights to you so they can't do a 180 and try to jew you out of money when they see you have become a little successful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:40:12 No.11865658 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865447
This is such an easy call: one side might draw fanart of you for free, the other side thinks that artists should be paid less for their work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:42:46 No.11865705 Report

Quoted By: >>11865859

>>11865530
>All that stream gear and various things intended for professional/commercial use literally are at higher premium prices, retard
Yes, because they're of a higher quality. with better performance than standard grade.
Nvidia isn't going to sue for for using a 3070 for prototyping.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:45:18 No.11865759 Report

Quoted By: >>11865900 >>11887445

>>11861074
I don't think that guy (and Hana Macchia by proxy) speaks for everyone really. I mean, you have people like Hikosan who refused payment for her work on Pekora's Anniversary goods, and there are even artists who even give an akasupa to a chuuba who featured their work on her stream.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:45:39 No.11865770 Report

Quoted By: >>11865851

>>11865119
I lost the few remaining functioning brain cells I had left after reading that.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:47:17 No.11865802 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865119
>male vtuber with female model

NGMI

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:49:58 No.11865851 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865770
Thanks, now I read it and I have brain damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:50:24 No.11865859 Report

Quoted By: >>11866083

>>11865705
They have higher quality AND they have extra premium attached on the prices. Don't pretend the fucking things don't. Likewise, artists normal prices isn't for models its normal art. Want to use their art commercial for anything? Pay more. This is standard for all art commissions. It has nothing to do with vtuber models.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:50:57 No.11865872 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865447
She knows exactly what she's doing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:51:06 No.11865876 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865119
Fuck you, pay me
Simple as

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:52:07 No.11865900 Report

Quoted By: >>11866010 >>11866115 >>11887270

>>11865759
Most of the time artists are fucking hypocrites, they would suck imaginary Holo cock while they are demanding to an indie for not being able to pay royalties , but this is what fame does to you unironically, if you are a 2view you will be treated like a shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 07:57:13 No.11866010 Report

Quoted By: >>11866297

>>11865900
Gotta groom your own artists. Just like each of your views are grooming you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:00:53 No.11866083 Report

Quoted By: >>11866193

>>11865859
Again, no one is going to sue you for using consumer grade products in commercial settings. If the premium price was due to a commercial license, they would.
They're priced higher because the target consumer is prepared to pay more for the increased performance, even if the price isn't to scale.
An artist adding a commercial fee is charging premium prices for a standard product.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:02:38 No.11866111 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
It sounds pretty grifty to specifically have that fee but artists will always have more respect to me more than vtubers who are literal leeches of mentally questionable adults

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:02:50 No.11866115 Report

Quoted By: >>11866343

>>11865900
Oh shit an artist donating to someone they like, like every other retard. But how dare they charge other people because he donated money to his favourite chuuba or made some fan work for a chuuba.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:06:21 No.11866193 Report

Quoted By: >>11866303 >>11889351

>>11866083
Hardware is honestly different an a strawman argument comparison. Want to make a better one? Software, most software have a commercial fee attached to them if you want to use them commercially at all. If it isn't some royalty or something it's requiring to buy a licence to use it commercially.

An artist adding a commercial fee is them charging premium prices for premium usage. Personal use is not equivalent to commercial use. Stay seething that you can't just scam artists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:11:10 No.11866287 Report

Quoted By: >>11868072

Is it not the law in anglo countries that the copyright of commissioned works belongs to the client?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:11:28 No.11866297 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866010
I'm not a vtuber, is just something I saw many times

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:11:36 No.11866303 Report

Quoted By: >>11866414

>>11866193
Commercial software licenses come with priority support, which is very important to enterprises.
Even if the software itself is the same as a private license, the product isn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:13:54 No.11866343 Report

Quoted By: >>11877900

>>11866115
Nothing bad with liking someone, but it doesn't change the fact that most of them are like this, and it happens everywhere, not only in vtubing scene, that's how the world works

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:17:39 No.11866414 Report

Quoted By: >>11866465 >>11889703

>>11866303
>Commercial software licenses come with priority support, which is very important to enterprises.
Wrong, not all of them do. A lot of things just simply charge you for commercial use and you don't get extra support for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:19:22 No.11866456 Report

Quoted By: >>11866487

What even is this thread? Some of you seem to argue that artists should charge more for commercial shit, some say they shouldn't, some seem to think there should be some kind of regular royalties payment, some guy even seemed to think they should do it for free...? Just fucking tell the artist you want to own the artwork, and to factor that into the price if applicable. They can't tell you shit after it'd completed that way, you own it, just tell them to shove it up their ass if they get uppity. If they're an ass about it or charge too much right off the bat, you know to just find someone else. There's no shortage of people who can draw on twitter, there's fuck loads of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:19:47 No.11866465 Report

Quoted By: >>11866492

>>11866414
For example?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:20:37 No.11866479 Report

Quoted By: >>11866666 >>11887445 >>11888196 >>11925029

>>11861074
Everyone in this thread needs to look up Alex Mauer and understand what that tranny did wrong. When you commission art you are buying the copyright for that art 99% of the time. An artist doesn't get to demand royalties after the person who bought their art ends up making a lot of money if that was never part of the original commission.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:21:09 No.11866487 Report

Quoted By: >>11866684

>>11866456
>They can't tell you shit after it'd completed that way
They can, and they will. That is why this thread exists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:21:18 No.11866492 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866465
I don't keep a list of these sort of things in my head. I don't use things commercial so it's never mattered to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:28:54 No.11866666 Report

Quoted By: >>11867282

>>11866479
it's like the Mizuryu Kei situation all over again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:29:54 No.11866684 Report

Quoted By: >>11867256

>>11866487
>They can't tell you (rightfully, or legally) shit after it'd completed that way
There. Dumbasses are dumb, that can't be changed so no amount of paperwork will help, but at least you've got your ass covered that way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:34:01 No.11866794 Report

Quoted By: >>11866963 >>11887445

>>11861074
Just wondering, cuz it's late as hell and my brain is tired, are they talking about commercial fees or commission fees? Commissioning someone obviously costs money and anyone that doesn't understand that is a retard. But I can understand why they wouldn't like commercial fees

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:38:04 No.11866888 Report

Quoted By: >>11874133 >>11874349 >>11887445

>>11864519
What if they were to just do vtubing as a hobby?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:39:24 No.11866930 Report

Quoted By: >>11867013 >>11867319 >>11876273 >>11877770 >>11887445

>>11861074
This is why you should only use art from dedicated artists.
I don't really know what commercial use means but if it means using it as like a thumbnail or something then let me tell you, haachama has used some of mine and my friends art and we have never EVER even thought about asking for a sliver of her money, hell it actually made us do more and more art to see who can get more scores in her thumbnails.
We all only watch haachama so I don't know about other chuubas

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:40:47 No.11866963 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866794
Comercial fees anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:41:13 No.11866973 Report

Quoted By: >>11876028 >>11887445

>>11864594
......wait that's a real thing? They expect fucking ROYALTY?????

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:42:59 No.11867013 Report

Quoted By: >>11868037

>>11866930
Mago? What are you doing here?
Jokes aside, you would do the same for a 2 view chuuba? Or just Haachama?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:53:44 No.11867256 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866684
Twitter will do what Twitter does best and still screech

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:54:52 No.11867282 Report

Quoted By: >>11868709 >>11873859

>>11866666
qrd?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:55:58 No.11867319 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866930
Damn which thumbnails?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 08:56:33 No.11867334 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
>"Exposure" is a meaningless trick. You can't eat exposure. If you're using it to make money, you gotta pay the fee.
>What, you're not using it to make money? You gotta pay anyway, you're still getting the benefit of exposure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 09:03:15 No.11867508 Report

Quoted By:

Her first three lines where ok.
Keep in mind that some artist will ask on what you're gonna do with the finished product.
Was it for your own personal use?
Was it for a gacha game?
Was it for everyone to fap on to?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 09:27:35 No.11868037 Report

Quoted By:

>>11867013
I'm pretty sure mago is the same, actually most people who do stuff for haachama would do it for free if she asked.
I can't say for sure but I genuinely think the person who made her veah video did it to her for free even if it was "commissioned" and even if she did pay he probably didn't ask for anything that much.
I think most people who truly love their oshi would do these things for free.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 09:29:00 No.11868072 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866287
depends on the contract
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ownership-of-copyright-works

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 09:58:22 No.11868709 Report

Quoted By: >>11869057

>>11867282
Cover fucked over Mizuryu Kei so he deleted every hololive shit he made and had a very public denouncement of hololive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 10:13:01 No.11869057 Report

Quoted By: >>11872732 >>11873859

>>11868709
>Cover fucked over Mizuryu Kei
>implying
He tried to jew them after signing a contract and then deciding that hololive was more profitable than he initially thought and demanded he give him a percentage of all hololive alt content sales. He rightfully got told no and threw a hissy fit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 10:51:27 No.11869867 Report

Quoted By: >>11872179

That two views right though.

After you commission your rig and pay for it, you don't need to pay the artist shit.

Especially since you can expect that commission to be expensive, since the artist will probably want to get the most out of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 11:15:23 No.11870340 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865474
Who are you quoting? Please learn to read. If exposure is acceptable payment has nothing to do with the OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 11:43:27 No.11870974 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865547
>She's bitching that they charge more for a vtuber design than some dudes personal furry porn.
I'd bitch about that too, furry porn is a notorious cashcow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 11:49:44 No.11871101 Report

Quoted By: >>11884787

What are those commercial fees? They have to keep paying the artist even after the commission is done?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 11:55:34 No.11871235 Report

Quoted By: >>11878170

>>11865380
Are you an idiot? It's not like anyone can become popular just by using well made art work. If they failed and receive loss, the vtuber can get the money back, ya accept that right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 11:57:37 No.11871271 Report

Quoted By: >>11871316

>>11865403
Dumbass, softwares come with updates, bug fixes and tech support. Don't charge extra if you can't provide that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 11:59:21 No.11871316 Report

Quoted By:

>>11871271
I'd charge vtubers more just because most of them are cunts and deserve to get gouged for dealing with their bullshit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 12:40:37 No.11872179 Report

Quoted By: >>11874057

>>11869867
In the world of artists if you become popular with their art they "rightfully" want a part of the cake regardless if you've already paid them properly before. Because it's "their art" so you "wouldn't be there without them".
Don't ask me why artists think that way, after 10 years of interacting with them I've given up on trying to understand. Your best bet is to always have some written contract or something so you don't get fucked over by them if you manage to make more money than they thought.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 12:48:17 No.11872335 Report

Quoted By: >>11873570

>>11865119
Not reading that shit. tl;dr?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 12:55:36 No.11872493 Report

Quoted By: >>11874096

In my country it's literally impossible for an author to surrender all rights to their work. It's mostly for the purposes of protecting the author from people using their work in a context that would be demeaning to the author's person or endorses a message they disagree with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 13:04:06 No.11872732 Report

Quoted By: >>11873546 >>11878970

>>11869057
t. corporate bootlicker
Cover fucked him over, deal with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 13:10:28 No.11872913 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11862020
Yeah and vtubing is a comercial use of the art

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 13:33:10 No.11873546 Report

Quoted By:

>>11872732
Oh noes, a company abided by a contract both parties signed voluntarily!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 13:34:03 No.11873570 Report

Quoted By:

>>11872335
Same as the OP post, "they don't deserve to get paid because muh reputation is already enough" inbetween a lot of tranny seethe

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 13:37:54 No.11873679 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
>Not just having commercial fees built in to the base cost
Literally why? Nobody commissions a chubba model to do anything that doesn't at least have monetization enabled

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1614150920014.png, 2MiB, 1280x1855

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 13:44:56 No.11873859 Report

Quoted By: >>11874287 >>11875212

>>11867282
Mizuryu Kei was a very special kind of a complete and absolute mess.
>Mizuryu Kei got a gig to make a Hololive manga with Marine in it, and he's a HUGE fan of her
>Even Marine is a big fan of his works
>Life is good, everything is going great
>Suddenly, he started tweeting things like "Are you fucking kidding me?" and "Don't mess with me"
>Decided to delete every single Hololive-related artwork and doujins he ever made (which was a lot), that came out of absolutely nowhere and it surprised everyone
>No one knows what happened exactly, there's no official tweets, confirmation or announcement from either him or Cover, the most common rrats are :
> - Cover asked him to stop making R18 Hololive content since he's now an official artist
> - He asked to meet or talk to Marine, which Cover refused
> - What >>11869057 said
>At the time, the whole Taiwan incident was still going on in full force, his "manager" on Bilibili made a livestream on the Mizuryu Kei channel, and talked about how much he got fucked over by Cover and how they shouldn't be trusted by anyone you can't own a Bilibili account or even do business at all in China if you're not chinese yourself, which is why this dude is here
>He realized that things were going WAAAAAY too far, so he deleted his angry tweets, asked everyone to not harass the girls and made a post on Bilibili saying that what his manager said in that stream aren't his opinions
>But too late, Chinks started using him as a symbol against Hololive, the girls started getting harassed even harder, and at some point, even Marine was getting harassed as well
>Nips were absolutely pissed off, they dug up pic related from one of his old works and used it to mess with the Chinks.
>Chinks realized that this image was actually real, they declared him a Nanking denier and instantly threw him away
In only few hours, the dude went from being angry at Cover and making a few pissed off tweets to being a symbol against Hololive, and finally ended up being both a pariah and a Nanking denier.
He got heat from both sides, so he just privated his Twitter account for a few months and completely disappeared from the Internet, not even a tweet or a single like, until very recently.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 13:52:50 No.11874057 Report

Quoted By: >>11879360

>>11872179
Maybe most of them are in their early-to-mid 20s and haven't had their teeth kicked in yet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 13:53:52 No.11874096 Report

Quoted By:

>>11872493
Which shithole?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 13:54:52 No.11874133 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866888
Sure, if they don't do any monetization or donations, they probably would be able to get away as NFP

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 13:59:50 No.11874287 Report

Quoted By:

>>11873859
>Crucifixion of Christ didn't happen
Fuck him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 14:02:00 No.11874349 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866888
>What if they were to just do vtubing as a hobby?
Most people just do vtubing as a hobby and dont profit; but they still have subscriptions and donations enabled

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 14:21:10 No.11875212 Report

Quoted By:

>>11873859
>Holocaust
>CP
>Crucifixion of Christ
Damn the guy was burning bridges even before the HoloAlt drama lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 14:25:24 No.11875381 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11862346
Some people just want to commission an art piece, they're not using it for vtubing. What you propose would be like charging a commercial fee for some 12 yo who wants a portrait for their dnd character.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 14:30:04 No.11875605 Report

Quoted By: >>11920940

>>11865119
So does that mean I can take this dude's stream/content, then use it for commercial businesses by only having to pay him a small service fee?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 14:31:07 No.11875644 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
Commercial fees are the easiest thing to get around. If you're too dumb to figure it out you deserve to get ripped off

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 14:38:27 No.11875990 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
Most importantly, commercial fees ensure that you OWN the design to your character and all the art created. It's legal protection both for you and the artist.

Shit like this is why 2views stay 2views

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 14:39:19 No.11876028 Report

Quoted By: >>11882013

>>11866973
Some don't want the vtuber to own the rights to the model.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 14:44:50 No.11876273 Report

Quoted By: >>11885636 >>11923976

>>11866930
>haachama has used some of mine and my friends art and we have never EVER even thought about asking for a sliver of her money
And you can't anyway, Hololive reserved themselves the right to use derivative works as they wish in exchange for allowing said works to exist in the first place.

https://en.hololive.tv/terms
>We consider derivative works to be creations born of fans' ideas and creativity, based on content created by us.

>We will not exercise our rights in regards to works that we deem to be derivative works, as long as they comply with these guidelines.

>Please note that we may use any derivative works you create as stream thumbnails, on social media, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:16:33 No.11877600 Report

Quoted By: >>11877746

Why are Indo women so horny?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:20:02 No.11877746 Report

Quoted By:

>>11877600
>Indo women
Women are as horny as men actually. You just don't get to see it unless you're Roberu-like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:20:49 No.11877770 Report

Quoted By: >>11885636 >>11885851 >>11887445

>>11862240
>Just commission third world artists that live know nothing of vtubing
There are vtubers in fucking third-world muslim-majority indonesia, there's no artist that doesn't know about vtubing even in third-world countries. Also, they still can fucking DMCA you if you don't put on contract that you want the commercial rights to the model and good luck counter-suing them overseas.

Just don't be a moron, ask for their rates for commercial work that own the rights to from the very beginning and save yourself headaches.

>>11866930
You don't fully own the right to that piece of artwork since the rights to the character belong to Cover - in other words, you should be glad that they understand there's a mutual benefit here and didn't decided to take it down and sue you for copyright infringement.

Besides, Cover has a fanwork policy that in exchange for the right to create derivative works form their intelectual propert, you give them the right to use it free-of-charge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:24:03 No.11877900 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866343
Yeah, I hate it too. I can't tell you how many times I've seen retards just throw money at their favorite chuubas but not donate a single cent to me! It's fucking bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:24:06 No.11877901 Report

Quoted By: >>11878005 >>11887445

>>11861074
Artists have become arrogant. I thought their work conditions were humbling, but I guess I was wrong. Clearly they're not starving or overworked enough to not be total kikes. If they want to get rich, they should l've bought bitcoin with leverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:26:29 No.11878005 Report

Quoted By:

>>11877901
NFTs truly exposed the artists that do it just for the money

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:28:08 No.11878072 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
>Current year
>Thinking artists still falll for the "work for exposure" meme
Every fucking amateur knows not to work for exposure, let alone professionals - no only you're being fooled but you're also driving everyone's prices down. We all lose.

Besides, usually the people who offer it can't actually give any meaninful exposure more than doing fanart of the flavor-of-the-month media and hashtaging it; while the people who can give you meaningful exposure will pay for work because they don't want legal headaches down the line.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:30:24 No.11878170 Report

Quoted By:

>>11871235
If the loss is caused because I got a rhombus with detached ears as my model, yes. If the loss is caused because I'm a boring tranny shark, then no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:37:44 No.11878436 Report

Quoted By: >>11878875 >>11879466

>>11865336
Literally retarded. Does the farmer charge commission for the bread baked with wheat from his field? No, he charges what he thinks it's worth and calls it a day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:42:57 No.11878656 Report

Quoted By: >>11878802 >>11878824 >>11887445

>>11861074
Is the vtuber artist market so in demand that 2 views are paying additional fees on top of the commission price?
That's pretty fucked.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:47:06 No.11878802 Report

Quoted By:

>>11878656
No it's just artists being artists. Most people only see the good or cute pictures with the positive tweets from artists so they never truly understand how rotten artists truly are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:47:40 No.11878824 Report

Quoted By:

>>11878656
Vtubing is the new shitcoin get rich quick scheme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:48:59 No.11878875 Report

Quoted By: >>11878934 >>11879427 >>11879466 >>11880813

>>11878436
Thats a really dumb comparison because the farmer knows that his product will be used for consumption, or it rots unsold. Art is timeless, doesn't age, and the value grows depending on how popular it is. Imagine designing Mickey Mouse, being paid $100 for the rights of it, and then seeing the Disney empire grow in front of your eyes, while you just have your $100.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:50:26 No.11878934 Report

Quoted By:

>>11878875
Happens literally all the time. If you make something on company time or with company property, the company owns it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:51:15 No.11878970 Report

Quoted By:

>>11872732
Read your contracts, do your research about the company, set a price because your time is valuable. The guy was being a retard, everyone knows it and once he found out about Holo's massive popularity he wanted more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:54:20 No.11879121 Report

Quoted By:

>buy a live2d avatar
>gee i wonder what you are going to use it for tee hee
>if you want to use it AT ALL you have to pay me extra, plus tip ;)
What kind of hand rubbing shit is that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:55:35 No.11879180 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
Anything beyond the price of the commission is completely retarded.
They've sold you the png and it's yours, unless you agreed to something different in the contract you don't owe them shit.
Not to mention that a vtuber becoming popular with "their" model is quite literally free advertisement on top of the commission fee.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 15:55:38 No.11879183 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865447
I wonder why a corpo would support an ideology that eliminates competition

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:00:29 No.11879360 Report

Quoted By: >>11879619

>>11874057
More like they are trying to fuck their customers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:02:14 No.11879427 Report

Quoted By:

>>11878875
You have to be absolutely retarded to think you deserve anything from Disney even if you designed Mickey, if they already payed for the
full price and rights then if they decay or rise as a company has nothing to do with the artist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:02:59 No.11879466 Report

Quoted By:

>>11878436
Artfags are leeches that think they're owed more by merit of nothing other than their hopeless dream of doing fuck all for the rest of their life because one of their drawings lets them be a lazy asshole until the day they die because someone who actually does something with their art attached makes a name for themselves and they think the customer's success should be attributed to them as well.

Like this shit >>11878875 If my company gets contracted to make a strip mall for a customer theres an agreed upon price for the work, the project is finished, and money exchanges hands. Theres no pissy expectation put in that expects my construction company to get a portion of all rents paid after the fact until the end of time simply because we made it. God damn I fucking hate self-entitled, art hoe kikes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:03:42 No.11879500 Report

Quoted By: >>11879622

>>11865375
The thing is, they are not asking for it for free. They already paid for the art, but if they want to use it as their stream background, banner, or sometimes even post it on twitter, they get charged extra.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:05:52 No.11879587 Report

Quoted By: >>11879622 >>11887445

>>11861074
"Pay in exposure" has been a meme for so long I can't believe people still try and pull that shit on artists lmao
Getting exposed trying to pull that shit is one the quickest ways to get dogpilled in your mentions

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:06:40 No.11879619 Report

Quoted By:

>>11879360
Ergo why I'm saying they haven't had their teeth kicked in yet. Think they're on top of the world and could pull some shit the moment they get a bit ahead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:06:44 No.11879622 Report

Quoted By:

>>11879587
>>11879500

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:07:35 No.11879652 Report

Quoted By: >>11880287 >>11892836

>I think the organic promotion of appearing on my stream is payment enough so I only use artists that don't charge for that, and hope more artists work this way.
>As a consequence, there are many artists who's work I can never use, there is a downside to my choice and to my belief about compensation.
>This is all fine and fair and there is no reason for narcissistic psychopaths on Twitter to complaint about my perfectly reasonable and respectful decision.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:13:09 No.11879865 Report

Quoted By: >>11879984

Why do you even need a ground reasoning for whether or not an Artist wants to charge a "commercial fee"? Unironically just let the market decide. If people are willing to pay commercial fees for certain Artists then they'll make more money, if not then they'll drop the commercial fee. Vtuber art isn't even close to an inelastic good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:16:44 No.11879984 Report

Quoted By:

>>11879865
It used to be cheaper before american covid bucks inflated all the prices

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:27:07 No.11880287 Report

Quoted By: >>11882292

>>11879652
not paying artists with real money is a hot button issue even if you have a some what rational opinion on it advocating for using promotion as payment. its like having an opinion on blm and saying maybe society needs cops

Technical

Technical Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:29:47 No.11880369 Report

Quoted By: >>11880844 >>11887445 >>11891392

>>11861954

>Twitter is the biggest cesspit on the Internet

Anon….

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:31:35 No.11880422 Report

Quoted By: >>11880627

>i don't want to pay commercial fees because my exposure should be enough
>why are you shitting on me?
>so much for ""diversity""
>just because i have a diverse opinion you're all hating on me

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:38:32 No.11880627 Report

Quoted By: >>11880694

>>11880422
Anyone who sells a stream asset should assume it should be used for commercial use. Your whataboutisms do not change this, scum. You are either hopelessly naive and stupid, or intentionally fucking over your customers if you sell a vtuber asset (stream overlay, model, rigging, etc) under non-commercial use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:40:04 No.11880673 Report

Quoted By: >>11880701

Why haven't you become a L2D artist, anon? Even ngmi mediocre ones are making bank

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:40:47 No.11880694 Report

Quoted By: >>11880734

>>11880627
>Anyone who sells a stream asset should assume it should be used for commercial use
and they charge commercial use price. pay the commercial price and don't try to play word games about how because you're both content creators, exposure should be enough. can't afford it? too fucking bad, try being less poor next time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:40:54 No.11880701 Report

Quoted By:

>>11880673
Because the top is in and the numbers are already declining. You must not follow trends, but stay ahead of them. The time to become a live2d artist was when holo announced EN applications last year.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:42:11 No.11880734 Report

Quoted By: >>11880785

>>11880694
The commercial price should be the base price. And if they can't afford it, they'll go to another artist cunning enough to lower their prices below yours. Free market at work, buddy. Bitch enough on twitter about how nobody takes your overpriced commissions?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:43:40 No.11880785 Report

Quoted By: >>11880938 >>11882390

>>11880734
>cunning enough
>Free market
>buddy
>nobody takes your overpriced commissions?
the unmitigated amount of cope in this post. i'm not sorry that my commissions are outside of your budget. seethe more poorfag, i'm already booked through February of 2022.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:44:22 No.11880813 Report

Quoted By: >>11882478

>>11878875
That's fucking stupid. If I commission a model for $100, make $5, and graduate, am I then entitled to a $95 refund? After all, the art grew right into the dump while you still have $100. It's art, not a fucking stock. Charging fees on top of fees for use is a good way to lose your customers when they want a new model.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:44:46 No.11880832 Report

Quoted By:

How much is this commercial fee even

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:45:09 No.11880844 Report

Quoted By:

>>11880369
He's not wrong.
Twitterfags has long surpassed imageboards as the scum of the earth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:47:26 No.11880938 Report

Quoted By: >>11881011 >>11881569

>>11880785
And I'm on a multi-million dollar contract that will keep me employed for years. I know business, anon. Being stingy with money isn't the sign of poverty, it's quite the opposite; its the sign of wealth. The rich are rich because we don't waste our money and invest it instead of spending it on useless trivial things like overpriced entertainment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:49:37 No.11881011 Report

Quoted By: >>11881051

>>11880938
Lying to stroke your ego on a malaysian basket weaving forum anon?
What a retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:50:51 No.11881051 Report

Quoted By: >>11881154

>>11881011
yeah it's pretty cringe that the other guy would suddenly bring up how prestigious and booked he is, isn't it? It will be a relief when the supply chain finally collapses and you twitterfags actually have to be productive to society to live.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:51:29 No.11881074 Report

Quoted By:

>I highly dislike commercial fees & tend to drift away from artists who charge such.
LOL

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:52:06 No.11881090 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861699
In kiaras case they sometimes superchat what you paid them back to you

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 16:54:04 No.11881154 Report

Quoted By: >>11881460

>>11881051
Wow, still keeping up the act, retard?
I'm starting to believe that you're delusional enough to believe your claim to success in an anonymous internet board is somehow relevant to the discussion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:00:54 No.11881356 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861954
this

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO kys.jpg, 30KiB, 640x360

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:04:30 No.11881460 Report

Quoted By: >>11886940

>>11881154
you literally claimed success on an anonymous internet board to try to win an argument. kys and ywnbaw

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:08:31 No.11881569 Report

Quoted By: >>11881657

>>11880938
>And I'm on a multi-million dollar contract that will keep me employed for years. I know business, anon.
which is why you're here on /vt/ internet fighting with some self proclaimed artist about your "multi-million dollar contract" right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:11:27 No.11881657 Report

Quoted By: >>11881732

>>11881569
it's a fucking saturday my dude, i like to relax on the weekend, drink alcohol, watch vtubers, and post on /vt/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:14:27 No.11881732 Report

Quoted By:

>>11881657
whatever you say "i need to act tough on the internet on a mongolian basket weaving image board" anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:25:00 No.11882013 Report

Quoted By: >>11882276

>>11876028
That's some retarded new age thinking. Like how companies put out their software as a subscription instead of just letting me fucking buy it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:34:26 No.11882276 Report

Quoted By: >>11882477

>>11882013
Subscription model is as old as the internet though, it just easier to do it now

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:34:56 No.11882292 Report

Quoted By: >>11882397 >>11882454 >>11883263

>>11880287
But that's the thing, he's not saying that he didn't pay the artists at all, just the commercial fee. He payed for the commission of his vtuber avatar

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:38:32 No.11882390 Report

Quoted By:

>>11880785
time to to look for artists that are booked until feb 2022 and harass them

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:38:45 No.11882397 Report

Quoted By:

>>11882292
That is just asking to be fucked over

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:41:06 No.11882454 Report

Quoted By: >>11882819 >>11883168

>>11882292
Sounds like they paid for an avatar not to be used with vtubing, and then wanted to use it for vtubing. They should just paid for an avatar to use for vtubing, or gone with an artist that's in their price range.
You can't go to the grocery store and pay for 1 product and take 2, you can't buy a game and download the DLC too, and you can't pay for non-commercial licensing to art and then use it commercially. It's not really a hard concept.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:41:49 No.11882477 Report

Quoted By:

>>11882276
I just meant how a LOT more companies are doing it. It's fucking infuriating

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:41:50 No.11882478 Report

Quoted By:

>>11880813
>That's fucking stupid. If I commission a model for $100, make $5, and graduate, am I then entitled to a $95 refund? After all, the art grew right into the dump while you still have $100. It's art, not a fucking stock. Charging fees on top of fees for use is a good way to lose your customers when they want a new model.

Art is a grey area. There are plenty of examples where a business had a contract with an artist, made a fortune and then the artists sued them because they felt they deserved a bigger cut. Only autistic people demand consistency the real world is a messy place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:43:08 No.11882515 Report

Quoted By:

Whoa literally who said something on Twitter!!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 17:53:51 No.11882819 Report

Quoted By: >>11883087 >>11883414 >>11883593 >>11889882 >>11895843

>>11882454
If I go to a grocery store and buy a product the product is now mine, I'll eat it wherever I fucking please, I'll cook it and sell it at a profit if I pleace.
If I buy a game the game is now mine, I'll play it wherever I please, I'll stream it and make a profit if I please.
If I buy commission an art piece the art piece is now mine, I'll display it where I please, I'll use it to make a profit if I please.
It's not really a hard concept.
If you want a higher fee for a commercial product, offer a better product that will attract a commercial client.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:03:36 No.11883087 Report

Quoted By:

>>11882819
Commercial fee is baked into copyright law anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:06:14 No.11883168 Report

Quoted By:

>>11882454
>you can't buy a game and download the DLC too
You can if it's a paradox game

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:07:58 No.11883217 Report

Quoted By: >>11895389

If you aren't owning the copyrights and establishing that the artist is creating a work for hire, then you're fucking doing it wrong and you're going to end up fucking yourself.

t. lawfag.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:09:15 No.11883263 Report

Quoted By:

>>11882292
sure i get that, but just the mention of "promotion as payment", regardless of if its partial payment or to replace commercial payment, will get you lynched by the twitter mob. the very idea of promotion as payment in any form offends people

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:14:40 No.11883414 Report

Quoted By: >>11883810

>>11882819
Anon just because you can't read terms of service doesn't mean they don't exist. You're very confused about how the world works.

Yes anon, you can buy some broccoli and cook it and sell it because that's part of the contract you made, you give them money, they give you the product with no strings attached.
You could maybe buy a game, most likely you're not and instead you're buying a license to it, and maybe you can stream it for profit if the contract you made with the game seller doesn't prohibit it.
If you commission a piece of art, you're buying a license to use the art, under the license's terms. Copyright (read: ownership) remains with the artist unless they also sell it to you.
I'm sorry for saying it's not a hard concept, because you're clearly struggling with it a lot, it was a miscalculation on my part since I have a hard time empathizing with retards of this magnitude.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:16:41 No.11883475 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
translation: poor fag

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:21:05 No.11883593 Report

Quoted By: >>11883810

>>11882819
>If you want a higher fee for a commercial product, offer a better product that will attract a commercial client.
What the fuck is a commercial client if not a client that intends to use the product commercially? Are you listening to yourself?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:29:59 No.11883810 Report

Quoted By: >>11884515 >>11884768

>>11883414
You seem confused. I will not buy garbage from a kike halfwit that is out to fuck me over.
If you put moronic shit in your ToS, I will either use it as I please anyway since ToS do not override property rights and laugh in your face as you seethe since I don't live in the US of Disney Lobbyism, or I will simply get my product from someone who isn't a fuckwit.

>>11883593
>reading comprehension
Add value to your product that would particularly appeal to commercial customers.
Is that simple enough for your smoothbrain to parse?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:35:11 No.11883945 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
Stop falling for the famous artist meme. Their clout isn't going to rub off on you and they have hundreds of fan willing to pay anything for their work.
Commission for results not for artist clout. There are plenty of obscure good artists that don't run with the same Twitter-artist crowd, plenty of them are new.
Stop being lazy-asses and start searching.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:44:11 No.11884184 Report

Quoted By: >>11887445

>>11861074
Why is he excluding every artist that doesn't charge commercial fees? The 2view is just saying that if you charge one, they're not going to commission from you. If I want a model I can use for profit, and you charge more in total than another artist, I'm less likely to use you. Simple as.

Also ridiculous that he claims that the nature of vtubing produces reputational fame as if that always translates into any monetary gain, when they're making the point that it doesn't in the same paragraph. Ask any one of these numbnuts whether or not they should pay a fee to Mihoyo for drawing Genshin art and watch the hamster wheels roll as they try to reconcile their point with "companies want the free exposure and fanart so it's okay".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 18:54:41 No.11884515 Report

Quoted By:

>>11883810
>Is that simple enough for your smoothbrain to parse?
No, that sentence tells me absolutely nothing about what you think a commercial client is.
Why are you calling out your reading comprehension in your own post?
I'll ask it again, hopefully third time's the charm. What do you think a commercial client is?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:03:43 No.11884768 Report

Quoted By: >>11885171

>>11883810
>I will either use it as I please anyway since ToS do not override property rights and laugh in your face as you seethe since I don't live in the US of Disney Lobbyism
While I'm happy for you, why do you feel the need to engage in discussions about retarded legalities when you don't live in a country with retarded laws?
>I will simply get my product from someone who isn't a fuckwit.
Just say stealing if that's what you mean, because that's what you're advocating. The person in OP's post isn't saying "I don't like your prices/conditions, I'll find someone else's prices/conditions that I like", they're saying "I don't like your prices/conditions, I won't honor them and I'll take it anyways."

You're keep saying some nonsensical thing about attracting commercial clients, but that makes absolutely no sense in this context because that's exactly what they did, they attracted a commercial client, but the client didn't want to fully pay so they stole it. Is your strategy to say random things until enough are correct that people will think you're right despite them not adding up to any cohesive?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:04:17 No.11884787 Report

Quoted By:

>>11871101
Hard to tell, in my case, I specified that I wanted to use mine for commercial purposes, and I think he just lumped it on to the final price. It depends on the artist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:16:26 No.11885171 Report

Quoted By: >>11885442

>>11884768
NTA, but
>Just say stealing if that's what you mean, because that's what you're advocating. The person in OP's post isn't saying "I don't like your prices/conditions, I'll find someone else's prices/conditions that I like", they're saying "I don't like your prices/conditions, I won't honor them and I'll take it anyways."
I don't think that's what OP's post is saying. They're saying that in exchange for exposure, they don't expect to pay a commercial fee. Misfounded expectations maybe, but I'm not sure where the guy up the thread got that they bought a personal license, and then decided to use it commercially anyways. That just sounds like what the quote retweet is saying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:25:13 No.11885442 Report

Quoted By:

>>11885171
>I don't think that's what OP's post is saying.
I didn't want to be too verbose so I simplified it, maybe too much. The deepest nested person isn't saying they stole it, they're saying they think they should be able to pay with exposure instead, and they avoid artists that don't reflect that. However the least nested person isn't specifically talking about that person, but making a tangential general point that even if you don't agree with the terms, if you're using a model commercially, you still need to pay what the artist charges for that, i.e., theft is not ok just because you don't like the artist's payment model. That general premise is what was being discussed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:32:28 No.11885636 Report

Quoted By:

>>11877770
>>11876273
Only as stream thumbnails or on social media posts, according to those guidelines. But I don't think Cover would be as brazen as to produce mech based on fanart.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:38:08 No.11885797 Report

Quoted By: >>11885926

Why can't they just say commission? When I read "commercial fees" I keep thinking you got to pay them every time you use their art or some shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:39:52 No.11885851 Report

Quoted By:

>>11877770
>You don't fully own the right to that piece of artwork since the rights to the character belong to Cover
That is only true if it's a trademark, anyone can make fanart of characters and own them if not. Getting a character trademarked requires an expensive process proving that the character is unique and also represents the brand.
If we were talking about a flagship holo after Cover has successfully applied the character for trademark, then what you said would be true. I doubt they've trademarked any of their characters, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:42:04 No.11885926 Report

Quoted By: >>11886115

>>11885797
Because they're not the same thing.
Let's say I'm selling you a drawing of your character, and I say I'll charge you $60 for this if only want to keep it to yourself and not do anything commercial with it, but $100 if you do want to use it for commercial purposes. Those extra $40 are the commercial fee.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:48:33 No.11886115 Report

Quoted By: >>11886279 >>11886299

>>11885926
Yea, that's some bullshit. Fuck that nonsense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:54:15 No.11886279 Report

Quoted By: >>11887201

>>11886115
Just find someone that doesn't offer the cheaper option and pay $100 but feel better that you didn't get scammed out of paying $60 + $40 instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:54:42 No.11886299 Report

Quoted By: >>11886345

>>11886115
its weird cause you're most likely using an independent artist and not a company to commission art

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 19:56:12 No.11886345 Report

Quoted By: >>11889072

>>11886299
I don't think it's that weird. If I were an artist I would absolutely charge less to a fan that only wants to cherish my art than someone wanting to make money off my art.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:13:57 No.11886940 Report

Quoted By:

>>11881460
She'd never say this, this image should be bea or some other /here/ menhera.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:21:47 No.11887201 Report

Quoted By: >>11888363 >>11888495

>>11886279
Or I'll find someone to just pay $60. How many of these artists actually gave a discount to customers that don't plan to use their art for commercial purposes vs just surcharging the ones that do?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:23:40 No.11887270 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865900
It happens everywhere on entertainment.
The more famous you are, the more free stuff you get.
Companies just mail you stuff for no reason, or should I say, mainly to form relationships, hotels give you free rooms, restaurants stop charging, etc.
You end up spending less money when you're that famous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:28:03 No.11887433 Report

Quoted By:

artists are fucking hacks that can't work normal jobs, more at 11. Thank god I got a based guy that just made me charge the price and the avatar is basically mine, artist niggers really need to chill with this shit

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1635020658468.jpg, 182KiB, 600x800

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:28:27 No.11887445 Report

Quoted By:

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> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:00:48 No.11861074▶>>11861810 >>11861867 >>11861954 >>11862240 >>11862365 >>11864594 >>11864714 >>11865164 >>11865447 >>11865594 >>11865759 >>11866111 >>11866479 >>11866794 >>11866930 >>11867334 >>11873679 >>11875644 >>11875990 >>11877901 >>11878072 >>11878656 >>11879180 >>11879587 >>11883475 >>11883945 >>11884184
>When will 2views ever learn?
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:16:53 No.11861699▶>>11864623 >>11881090
>Wait vtubers have to pay their artists? I thought artists did it for free.
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:18:50 No.11861771▶
>>Just work for free bro, I'll pay you in clout.
>A grift as old as time.
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:20:01 No.11861810▶>>11862130
>>>11861074 (OP)
>Can't you just search for a artist with a one-time fee?
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:21:40 No.11861867▶
>>>11861074 (OP)
>Never, that's why they don't grow.
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:24:26 No.11861954▶>>11862188 >>11880369 >>11881356
>>>11861074 (OP)
>Oh my god, who gives a shit. One retard acts like a retard and every turns the retard into the topic for the day as they all make themselves feel better for not being that retard when infact they are retarded. Twitter is the biggest cesspit on the internet.
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:26:44 No.11862020▶>>11872913
>They're not talking about paying for the commission, ESLtards
>A commercial fee is an extra fee you pay to use the art for commercial purposes.
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:29:51 No.11862130▶
>>>11861810
>y-yea sure but it's gonna be e x p e n s i v e
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:31:33 No.11862188▶
>>>11861954
>Based and true
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:33:08 No.11862240▶>>11877770
>>>11861074 (OP)
>Just commission third world artists that live know nothing of vtubing and dont live in the same country you do. This trick works better when its a porn artist using a penname as they wont have the gall to sue you.
>That's how you avoid commercial fees
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:35:36 No.11862346▶>>11864519 >>11864650 >>11875381
>I never understand the point between personal use and commercial fees, just price it all in together. Tacking on a higher price just for commercial use is just a way for artists to charge double.
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:35:56 No.11862365▶
>>>11861074 (OP)
>Not only a 2view but a fucking vtweeter
>>>>/trash/wvt
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:38:39 No.11862458▶>>11865450
>That first post has nothing to do with the second.
>>I don't use artists who charge commercial fees
>>You MUST pay the fees
>>But I don't use artists who charge commercial fees.
>>PAY THE FEES
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)01:42:30 No.11862568▶>>11864537
>>commercial fees
>What? I thought it was one time payment, upfront.
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)02:47:20 No.11864519▶>>11864630 >>11866888
>>>11862346
>It's because you are profiting off of their work. The entire concept of commercial fees is good because it helps ensure you aren't just ripping someone off so you can profit from their work.
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)02:48:04 No.11864537▶
>>>11862568
>No some of them are kikes
>>>
> Anonymous 10/23/21(Sat)02:50:07 No.11864594▶>>11866973
>>>11861074 (OP)
>what the fuck is this autist babbling about?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:50:44 No.11888196 Report

Quoted By:

>>11861074
>>11866479
Depends on your country's laws.
In Japan you generally need to buy an exclusive usage license which makes your total price around 2.5 times the original cost.
But then it also depends on the person you're dealing with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:51:07 No.11888219 Report

Quoted By: >>11888288

indies and getting into pointless twitter slapfights, name a more iconic duo

at least corporate chuubas are contractually obligated to keep their autism in check

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:53:05 No.11888288 Report

Quoted By: >>11888412

>>11888219
Artists and being greedy cunts who fuck over people.
t. /ic/ vet and have been in the art community for over a decade

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:55:51 No.11888363 Report

Quoted By: >>11890190

>>11887201
What if they charge $30 for personal use and $60 for commercial use? Then you have to look into even shittier artists for $30 just so that you can feel like you're not getting ripped off because you don't understand how commercial licenses work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:57:08 No.11888412 Report

Quoted By:

>>11888288
>have been in the art community for over a decade
Your experience time as an anti doesn't give you any credibility.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 20:59:39 No.11888495 Report

Quoted By: >>11890190

>>11887201
>How many of these artists actually gave a discount to customers that don't plan to use their art for commercial purposes vs just surcharging the ones that do?
Fine, it's not $60 + $40 commercial fee, it's $100 + $40 non-commercial discount. Happy now? Now you're not getting ripped off but getting a deal if you don't want to use it commercially. I fucking swear.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:08:48 No.11888813 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865336
It's called added value, the art doesn't generate money on it's own.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:15:22 No.11888998 Report

Quoted By:

>>11864978
>What the fuck makes you think you're entitled to more pay
Because people are willing to pay it. It's that simple autist-kun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:17:33 No.11889072 Report

Quoted By: >>11889477

>>11886345
I mean it's strange to me in a legal way. Can an independent artist take someone to court over it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:26:05 No.11889351 Report

Quoted By: >>11889598

>>11866193
Let's stay with the hardware perspective.
What if instead of a .jpeg the artist produced a literal cardboard cutout for you?
Not a fancy-schmacy digital product but one rooted in the physical world.
And vtubing would be you puppeteering it in front of a camera. Basically Nenes during the 3D collab.
Wouldn't the artist be a bitch for asking for "commercial fees" for its commercial use?

tl;dr: Ask for the fucking price you want and don't make it dependant on what it's going to be used for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:29:21 No.11889477 Report

Quoted By:

>>11889072
Yes, anyone can go to small claims court, you don't even need a lawyer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:32:31 No.11889598 Report

Quoted By: >>11889887

>>11889351
>tl;dr: Ask for the fucking price you want and don't make it dependant on what it's going to be used for.
Do you want them to also charge their friends and family the same so you don't feel you're being ripped off? Just pay them what they ask for what you want, if they ask too much for what you want negotiate or go elsewhere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:35:52 No.11889703 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866414
The is no such thing as a commercial use fee for software.
What they have is a discount for private use.
Making another copy of the software takes literally zero effort, so why not give a discount to people who don't plan to make money with it?
It also helps with spreading the software among those who may be needing this kind of software professionally in the future.
Giving a discount for private use is just a tool to sell more software at the normal price.

Art just doesn't work that way. You can sell commissioned art only once if you don't want to ruin your reputation, price it that way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:40:42 No.11889882 Report

Quoted By:

>>11882819
This is very painful to read. You are not grasping the concept; in fact, you are over simplifying it to the point where it has lost its original intent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:41:01 No.11889887 Report

Quoted By: >>11890809 >>11928021

>>11889598
Silly anon, everyone knows that the "Family & Friends Discount" applies.
I have no problem with the price being determined by who you sell it to.
Don't like you? Pay twice.
What I have a problem with is the price being determined by what the product will be used for.
Imagine a hardware store suing you for bashing someones head in with one of their hammers because you failed to pay the "deadly weapon"-fee.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:45:44 No.11890035 Report

Quoted By:

>>11864656
lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:49:54 No.11890190 Report

Quoted By:

>>11888363
>>11888495
Or I can look for the artists who have been charging $60 the entire time with a $0 commercial fee and $0 non-commercial discount. Or maybe $100 the entire time with the same $0 fee or discount, or even $1000.

I'm not sure how both of you missed the point of the question. There's no "getting ripped off", they can charge whatever they want for their art. Just don't pretend like any reasoning beyond that isn't made up. Both "if they profit off of it I deserve more" and "I'm actually being nicer to people who don't use it for profit" have no grounding.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 21:57:45 No.11890473 Report

Quoted By:

>>11864630
Overall, personal and commercial use exist to protect the artists. If you plan to use the product for commercial use, then you will have to purchase the commercial rights to the product from the artist (aka commercial fees) on top of the original personal use price. If you don't, then they have the legal rights to sue you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 22:07:59 No.11890809 Report

Quoted By: >>11891466

>>11889887
>Imagine a hardware store suing you for bashing someones head in with one of their hammers because you failed to pay the "deadly weapon"-fee.
This is closer to the truth than you realize. Remington is currently being sued for selling the rifle used in a mass shooting almost a decade ago. If they had set the price of that gun high enough to deter the shooter from buying it, they wouldn't be litigating hundreds of millions in damages. There is a reputational risk that an artist takes when contracting with commercial clients that warrants a higher fee to discourage "bad actors" from associating the art with the artist. Imagine drawing a bunch of furry porn for personal commissions, getting a more mainstream art job, and then having furries sell a book of furry porn by "mainstream artist" that damages your ability to make anything but more furry porn.
But your example has no bearing on the topic because art has never been part of a traditional consumer market. The fact is that no one commissions "an art" the way you buy a hammer or a rifle. If in the process of negotiating a contract to commission stream assets you lie about their intended commercial use, you fucked up and may have to pay many times more to defend yourself in the legal system than you would have just paying the artist for commercial use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 22:25:23 No.11891392 Report

Quoted By:

>>11880369
Fuck off twitterfag namefag

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 22:27:33 No.11891466 Report

Quoted By: >>11891820 >>11892048

>>11890809
>There is a reputational risk that an artist takes when contracting with commercial clients that warrants a higher fee to discourage "bad actors" from associating the art with the artist.
This is ridiculous. Do you think companies should charge artists the same reputational risk if the artist goes nuts? Or from an example earlier in the thread, do you think it would be sensible for companies to charge a reputational fee if an artist wants to draw derivative works to post on twitter just in case they draw x character in a negative light?

>Imagine drawing a bunch of furry porn for personal commissions, getting a more mainstream art job, and then having furries sell a book of furry porn by "mainstream artist" that damages your ability to make anything but more furry porn.
Then you clearly state that all reproductive rights of your drawing are yours when you do the commission and take the toss whenever someone decides not to commission you because of it.

>If in the process of negotiating a contract to commission stream assets you lie about their intended commercial use, you fucked up and may have to pay many times more to defend yourself in the legal system than you would have just paying the artist for commercial use.
His, probably, intended point is making up fees post hoc that aren't covered under an original contract. While a lot of commissioned art has a formal contract these days, many still don't. When you buy a hammer, there's no clause stating that if you do x you have to pay an extra fee. He's saying that when you buy x, all associated copyright with that product should be yours.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 22:33:55 No.11891663 Report

Quoted By: >>11891972 >>11892034

Why would a commercial artist have art non-commercial prices? It seems like a professional artist would have very little to lose by cutting out customers that aren't willing/able to shell out for commercial use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 22:38:48 No.11891820 Report

Quoted By: >>11892034

>>11891466
>Do you think companies should charge artists the same reputational risk if the artist goes nuts?
This is basically what happened with Mizuryu Kei, mentioned upthread. There were also a bunch of Hololive assets--animations and such--by mainland Chinese artists that were disappeared when that shit went down. I guarantee that each of these events changed the way Cover contracts with artists going forward.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 22:44:30 No.11891972 Report

Quoted By:

>>11891663
It's only the bottom feeding tier in a 2views price range that are precarious and naive enough to run afoul of idiots like the OP in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 22:46:56 No.11892034 Report

Quoted By: >>11925907

>>11891820
As they should, just as those artists know what they're getting into and can decide whether to still do business with Cover or not. What they shouldn't be doing is if they went back to Mizuryu and demanded payment as if he hurt their reputation through him having done art/fanart before.

>>11891663
Because most of the time the people splitting their commercial/non-commercial prices didn't start out as professional artists. Many artists don't draw a distinction between the two and just don't do personal commissions at all. Others don't have enough commercial work and/or want to work for more money so they lower their prices in a way that non-businesses can afford it. Then the rest are almost exclusively non-commercial, but realize that a business is simply willing to pay that much more, so if one contacts you, why not take the money?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 22:47:25 No.11892048 Report

Quoted By:

>>11891466
>Then you clearly state that all reproductive rights of your drawing are yours when you do the commission and take the toss whenever someone decides not to commission you because of it.
I don't disagree, but also this is indistinguishable from the commercial use carve out being strawmanned in this thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 22:47:59 No.11892068 Report

Quoted By: >>11892384

>>11861074
>fees
Wait, what? Are you saying that Vtubers get their models through loans now?
Fucking hell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 22:57:09 No.11892384 Report

Quoted By: >>11892836 >>11923083

>>11892068
I don't blame you for not reading the brain melt in the twitlonger >>11865119
, but the inciting incident was being charged more upfront for commercial use of a commissioned asset.
Most of the churn in this thread is failing to grasp that, instead assuming that this was an artist trying to collect after the fact or that "fees" means some kind of royalty on earnings generated by commercial use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 23:11:13 No.11892836 Report

Quoted By: >>11893803

>>11892384
Wait then I understand even less about what the entire shitstorm is about? How is the only take on this not >>11879652 or >>11862458?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 23:17:47 No.11893061 Report

Quoted By: >>11893422

This whole thread is just people who don't understand copyright, people who THINK they understand copyright, people who admit they don't understand copyright, and artists who don't even know what they're people paid for to begin with. Entertaining though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 23:27:19 No.11893422 Report

Quoted By:

>>11893061
Artists who don't know what people are paying them for*
I'm the clown of the thread, apparently.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 23:33:42 No.11893680 Report

Quoted By: >>11893942

It's interesting to see people being offended by the idea of other people offering their work at different rates to different type of clients.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 23:36:20 No.11893783 Report

Quoted By:

>>11864623
I'm not him but i also thought that. I thought they do it for the attention from their oshis. Like fucking Pomu's schizo mama

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 23:37:01 No.11893803 Report

Quoted By:

>>11892836
Vtweeters be tweeting. Artists want to defend their pricing structure on either side, 2views want to whine about how all the money they spend should make them 10views, no one wants to end up on the wrong side of fanartists. It obviously spun out of hand, the OP just wanted to vent about being unable to pay for shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Oct 2021 23:40:54 No.11893942 Report

Quoted By: >>11894701

>>11893680
Don't even need the last part.
>It's interesting to see people being offended by the idea of other people offering their work at different rates
There are tons of artists who complain that other artists are offering their work for too little and dragging all the prices down. Even more people who complain whenever requesters try to bargain down prices. I don't understand how someone can work by market principles when working with businesses, but suddenly disregard those same principles for a "living wage" when not. Either way, the market will take care of all the ones who offer suboptimal prices.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:00:12 No.11894701 Report

Quoted By:

>>11893942
It's usually first worlders complaining about 3rd worlders undercutting them, which I don't care about, it's a loud minority that is usually inferior to what 3rd worlders can offer in quality as well.
This case is I assume first worlder crying that an artist asked them extra in advance for work they intend to make money off. And they for some reason expected "personal use only" discount for it.

Your example of "bad artist" is literally the same person as the "client" in this case. Nobody fucking doubts that there are shitty people on both sides, it's just that this time, the entitled brat was the mister tranny exposure bucks. If the artist is upfront with their price and terms it's take it or leave it. Having a meltdown about it on social media will just put you on several blacklists. Haggling is usually offensive anywhere unless you are buying in bulk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:14:47 No.11895350 Report

Quoted By:

commercial what? never heard of it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:15:37 No.11895389 Report

Quoted By: >>11895850

>>11883217
Isn't the commercial fee establishing you own the work and and do whatever you want with it afterwards? Can the artist stop you from using their work in a way they don't like after that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:26:14 No.11895843 Report

Quoted By: >>11897094

>>11882819
>If I buy a game the game is now mine, I'll play it wherever I please, I'll stream it and make a profit if I please.
I agree with the rest of what you said but this example is obviously silly. Here's what you're overlooking. (You), the consumer, do not ever actually buy a game, buying the game would entail covering the cost of creating it (millions of dollars). You buy the right to play it, which costs almost nothing. You will never own the game, you just own permissions to do certain things. If you want to stream it you have to buy the rights to stream it.

This doesn't work for little Twitter artists because the cost to create the art is just their hourly price, so when you buy the art it is reasonable to expect to fully own the product, the same way you expect to own bread since you fully covered the cost of producing it plus profit for the producer.

If an artist wants to charge more because he thinks the client is gonna get rich and their art is worth it then sure, the client has the choice to find someone cheaper. I don't think the artist ever deserves to come back after the client is rich and demand reparations however

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:26:26 No.11895850 Report

Quoted By: >>11895991

>>11895389
The "commercial fee" establishes nothing. It's a pricing structure that should inform whatever contract you sign. The contract should include language clarifying whether it's "work for hire" or "personal use only" or includes whatever type of commercial use etc. If you breach the contract then maybe you get fucked. That's why lawanon suggested "work for hire", which in the US at least is the most favorable "Superman movies don't owe shit to the guys who created Superman" type of arrangement.
But none of these people have lawyers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:29:58 No.11895991 Report

Quoted By: >>11896285

>>11895850
>But none of these people have lawyers.
Aren't there contract templates that can be found pretty fast online? If an artist refuses to put their stamp/signature on it that is suspicious enough not to hire them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:37:22 No.11896285 Report

Quoted By:

>>11895991
Sure, but pretending to be a lawyer is a risk factor for eventually paying a lawyer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:39:08 No.11896346 Report

Quoted By:

>>11861699
If the artist is a super fan and does it out of support then yeah its free

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:40:24 No.11896391 Report

Quoted By:

>tons of industries charge commercial usage fees for their goods and services
>but its only artists that people complain about this for
Also, exposure means jack shit. Unless you are going to be a hololive tier popularity, your exposure does nothing for the artist. No one cares for the artist who drew the model unless you are like the top 0.00001% and even then the vast vast vast majority won't. This is a age old problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:42:27 No.11896466 Report

Quoted By: >>11896621

Are commercial fees like a cut of earnings or an upfront higher cost?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:46:25 No.11896621 Report

Quoted By:

>>11896466
In the context of the OP, the latter. Artists historically have had trouble negotiating points on the backend without a union, which is nonexistent outside film/tv.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO hiper mug.jpg, 29KiB, 719x719

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:50:28 No.11896770 Report

Quoted By:

>>11864594
>art is not hard
post work, faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 00:57:21 No.11897094 Report

Quoted By:

>>11895843
>If you want to stream it you have to buy the rights to stream it.
As of now, it's still fairly murky as to what how far fair use goes in this case. As of now, it's not really hotly contested (although Atlus among others are starting to rock the boat in this regard) whether it's covered or not. I've seen some people say people should have to have "licenses" to stream at all, and others say they bought the rights to play the game themselves, so they should be allowed to stream it too. For plot driven games live visual novels or something, it gets way too ambiguous to tell right now, for the most part everyone just does it anyway. Agree with everything else though, the artist does not own the art once it's paid for so they can't make any new demands.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 01:30:41 No.11900895 Report

Quoted By:

>>11861074
tl;dr is basically
>Western faggot doesn't know how art commissions are done overseas but is using an overseas artist for the design
Always read your contracts, always negotiate them, always have all information before signing, know the artist's rates before agreeing to anything, know that the rest of the world doesn't function like burgerland.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 02:39:33 No.11909165 Report

Quoted By:

>>11861074
Is twitter's tos one of those things where anything you upload is fair game for anyone to use for any reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 02:40:49 No.11909270 Report

Quoted By:

>>11861074
How does anyone in any position in life get to the point where they can delude themselves into thinking they can ask someone for free labor

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 05:40:51 No.11920822 Report

Quoted By:

>literal nobody wants to pay artist with exposure LMAO

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 05:44:42 No.11920940 Report

Quoted By:

>>11875605
No sweety that rule only applies to others

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 06:57:14 No.11922966 Report

Quoted By: >>11923083 >>11923390

>>11861074
Can someone link me to a post that explains what this is about. The OP image is so vague its fucking retarded. As an artist extraordinaire who did free and commercial commissions im confused, so how can you non-artist peasants can comprehend what these literally whos are talking about?

What commercial use? As in someone did something for free but you, vtuber, thought to use it in your content, like in a thumbnail and then the artist asks to be paid? Or what.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 07:02:57 No.11923083 Report

Quoted By: >>11923117

>>11922966
>>11865119
>>11892384

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 07:04:08 No.11923117 Report

Quoted By:

>>11923083
Arigatou gozaimasu

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 07:16:01 No.11923390 Report

Quoted By:

>>11922966
Literally just someone seething that people charge commercial use fees for art.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 07:39:32 No.11923976 Report

Quoted By: >>11924018 >>11924711

>>11876273
>Please note that we may use any derivative works you create as stream thumbnails, on social media, etc.
Is that even legal? Even if they own the IP of the character, they're making money off of someone else's work without permission or compensation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 07:41:23 No.11924018 Report

Quoted By: >>11924058

>>11923976
The alternative is they take down your content for using their IP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 07:43:04 No.11924058 Report

Quoted By: >>11924153

>>11924018
They can't do that if your fan art isn't for-profit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 07:47:28 No.11924153 Report

Quoted By:

>>11924058
They are flexing on you. If your derivative work is not for profit, you probably can't prove damages in court.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 08:14:39 No.11924711 Report

Quoted By: >>11924832

>>11923976
Under US law that's fine, because they specifically state "derivative works". Those do not have their own copyright and are owned by the original IP holder.

However, not all fan works are "derivative works", some are "transformative" and can acquire their own copyright, in which case using it would be copyright violation on the part of Cover. Something like a fan manga that has an original plot is likely transformative.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 08:20:38 No.11924832 Report

Quoted By: >>11924848

>>11924711
No one except Square Enix sells Mickey Mouse doujins in the US for a reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 08:21:22 No.11924848 Report

Quoted By: >>11925151

>>11924832
Keyword here "sells".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 08:30:54 No.11925029 Report

Quoted By:

>>11866479
No, not really.
In USA at least, unless artist specifically relinquish all the rights to their art they can really fuck you over if you try to use it commercially.
Not a lot of people understands but that's basically what happened between Melody and Digi and why Melody was pretty much forced to drop all the assets made by him - he could literally take her down and fuck like actual bitch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 08:36:25 No.11925151 Report

Quoted By: >>11925963

>>11924848
The more salient example would probably be Rice cracking down on Lestat fanfic, which was reasonably successful. More important than a legal case for the transformative nature of a fanwork is the capacity and desire to litigate it. That shit costs more money than either party is likely to make a) exploiting said transformative work or b) in defense of the zero dollars you made with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:17:25 No.11925898 Report

Quoted By: >>11926069

Wait, I thought Holos just went and used any fanart they liked for whatever just like that? They actually pay for it? The other day I saw someone shitting themselves of happiness because don't remember who used their fanart for their stream and there was no mention of payment or anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:17:49 No.11925907 Report

Quoted By: >>11926099 >>11926285 >>11938406

>>11892034
The it goes back to something that is being said in this thread, trying to charge commercial fees from 2views or 10views is retarded as fuck, even if you see them as a "business" they're not really, you're better off investing in them and hope they succeed so you can do so if they grow.
And that companies (or triple digit views) that don't want to deal with this shit will try to contract at a higher initial price point to not have to deal with fees bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:20:52 No.11925963 Report

Quoted By: >>11926187

>>11925151
I doubt it would work today (in the sense that an author could sue fanfic writers and still sell another book). Nowadays there's so much good content that nobody can ever finish all of it in their lifetime. It's so easy for me to not read anything from an author who shits on her most invested fans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:27:52 No.11926069 Report

Quoted By: >>11926081

>>11925898
The thread isn't about fan art, it's about stream assets: layouts, emotes, props, up to and including character design and rigs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:28:32 No.11926081 Report

Quoted By: >>11926237

>>11926069
But I've seen fanart being used in, say, waiting screens or intros or video thumbnails.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:29:23 No.11926099 Report

Quoted By:

>>11925907
Most 2views who do become big successes just join a company that make them ditch their old model and design in order to not deal with this shit anyway. It's just funny to think about these artists/riggers believing their work is anything but a temporary stepping stone in someone's career.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:34:54 No.11926187 Report

Quoted By:

>>11925963
The closest recent litigation like this was over ownership of Omegaverse. It stalled out because no one involved had enough money for a competent lawyer and they ran out of money before resolving anything in court.

Exynth1a (the "seanig")

Exynth1a (the "seanig") Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:38:29 No.11926234 Report

Quoted By:

>>11864656
what the fuck? character development on /vt/?
times are changing faster than I expected

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:38:57 No.11926237 Report

Quoted By:

>>11926081
If it's fanart, they probably have explicit permission from the artist in addition to whatever legal claim they might have over the work as derivative.
The OP is about a 2view complaining that he was being quoted 300% more to include commercial use of a commissioned asset than if he had commissioned that asset for personal use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:42:46 No.11926285 Report

Quoted By: >>11926504

>>11925907
Problem - only handful of these 2- and 10viewers have actual chance to become successful and it's really hard to guess which one it will be. And at the end of the day artists want to get paid for their work.
Would you prefer to "invest" in chuuba that may actually bomb and leave you with nothing or just get paid for your honest work?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:43:52 No.11926306 Report

Quoted By: >>11926355

This might be off topic but which artist has done the most art for a single chuuba?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:46:19 No.11926355 Report

Quoted By:

>>11926306
Officially? Dunno.
@QbcjbryEbOHdJr8 on Twitter can shit like dozen of fanarts a week for Kyoutto, Shimo and other small lolitubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 09:56:32 No.11926504 Report

Quoted By: >>11935568

>>11926285
Exactly. Framing price structure as an "investment" in the market or the commissioning chuuba is only useful for artists than can afford the risk of investing. The kind of artists that 2views can afford to commission cannot be expected to take losses when the 2view fails.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 11:22:27 No.11928021 Report

Quoted By:

>>11889887
>I have no problem with the price being determined by who you sell it to.
Clearly you do, since you hate the idea of them selling it more expensive to people that want to use it commercially.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO amelia_small.jpg, 50KiB, 524x349

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 11:49:28 No.11928771 Report

Quoted By: >>11929806

>>11861074
>free advertising and promotion from my channel
>948 followers on Twitch
>316 followers on Twitter
>33 subs on YT

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 12:13:23 No.11929806 Report

Quoted By:

>>11928771
Promotion bucks are exclusive to people that have no significant following.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 14:57:22 No.11935568 Report

Quoted By:

>>11926504
The you don't invest, you charge premium for relinquinshing rights to that art in advance and fuck it. In the wild case they start making more money negotiate your next commissions better, because you were part of his success odds are they will come back to you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 15:35:38 No.11936694 Report

Quoted By:

Nade, you can link individual posts if you click on either the timestamp or the comments link. For example, the link to your poll from 10hrs ago:
https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxCwRirLwnvlp0K7hjrdB-39qHTkJzsKM3

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 15:36:54 No.11936741 Report

Quoted By: >>11937109

Is she still not using an ethernet cable? It would suck for her stream to go down during her l2d debut.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 15:40:43 No.11936845 Report

Quoted By:

>>11861954
Everyone's a retard except you anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 15:50:02 No.11937109 Report

Quoted By:

>>11936741
Based hunny enjoyer

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Oct 2021 16:41:34 No.11938406 Report

Quoted By:

>>11925907
>And that companies (or triple digit views) that don't want to deal with this shit will try to contract at a higher initial price point to not have to deal with fees bullshit.
Professional artists that are dealing with businesses will have the commercial fee as apart of the package. A business isn't commissioning shit for non-commercial use.

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