/n/ - Transportation » Thread #1207513

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Elegant Steam Locomotives

Anonymous Fri 29 Jun 2018 18:47:50 No.1207513 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1207534 >>1207570 >>1207809 >>1207860 >>1207930 >>1207954 >>1207976 >>1208010 >>1208522 >>1209409 >>1214767 >>1221776

We used to have locomotives like this in America.
They all got scrapped.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Jun 2018 19:46:20 No.1207534 Report

Quoted By: >>1207535 >>1219717

>>1207513
It's criminal that there wasn't an effort to preserve more of them like there was in the UK. Imagine if the US had even 1/4 the density of restored historical railroads that the UK does.

Or, to put it this way, there's an alternate universe out there where American railfans can ride the entirety of the Sunset Limited, the Southwest Chief, or the Empire Builder, hauled at service speed by a lovingly restored PRR T1, articulated SP Cab-forward, or UP Challenger, while multiple trusts exist that are well on the way towards rebuilding stuff like New PRR S1s and S2s from scratch, and we don't live in it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Jun 2018 19:54:24 No.1207535 Report

Quoted By: >>1207570 >>1207573 >>1207650

>>1207534
>in the Berenstein timeline, the passenger railroads never failed and still run passenger trains using historic equipment
i want to get off mr ford's wild ride.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Jun 2018 21:25:04 No.1207570 Report

Quoted By: >>1207573 >>1207859 >>1210507

>>1207513
There's apparently some non-profit rebuilding a T1 from old blueprints

>>1207535
I too want off Mr. Robert Moses' wild ride

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Jun 2018 21:27:48 No.1207573 Report

Quoted By: >>1207590 >>1210507

>>1207535
>>1207570

Blame the Wright Brothers, not the Cagemakers, for killing passenger rail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Jun 2018 21:55:27 No.1207590 Report

Quoted By:

>>1207573
That only works for the US though.
In Europe, depending on where you are, cars did kill trains. Cars killed trains in the UK and Ireland, and it also killed a lot of trains in Central Europe too, just not to the same extent as in the British Isles.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Jun 2018 01:40:58 No.1207650 Report

Quoted By:

>>1207535
WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP IT

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Jun 2018 10:47:10 No.1207809 Report

Quoted By:

>>1207513
We used to have locomotives like this in Germany. Some are still fully functional and in heritage service

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Jun 2018 14:41:55 No.1207859 Report

Quoted By:

>>1207570
https://prrt1steamlocomotivetrust.org
Here you are anons, they seem to be making god progress so far

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Jun 2018 14:50:14 No.1207860 Report

Quoted By:

>>1207513
I believe a few still exist, but they're not streamlined anymore, they were converted to normal configurations to make maintenance simpler. (IIRC that happened a lot during WWII when trains were running around the clock for the military and being able to get to stuff easily to work on it mattered a lot more than looking sexy or being a few mph faster.)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Jun 2018 18:35:33 No.1207930 Report

Quoted By: >>1208897 >>1209409

>>1207513

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Jun 2018 19:41:24 No.1207954 Report

Quoted By:

>>1207513

That feeling when I read any article about the PRR steams or NYC streamliners and always encounter the same phrase: all scrapped, none preserved.

> *TRIGGERED AS FUCK*

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Jun 2018 21:24:59 No.1207976 Report

Quoted By: >>1207981 >>1208159

>>1207513
What happened to train designs? They all look like complete garbage nowadays. The American ones look like construction equipment and the European ones look like anything from household vacuums to cheap plastic toys.
At least the Japanese succesfully manage to imitate the sleek aerospace aesthetics with their Shinkansen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Jun 2018 21:33:39 No.1207981 Report

Quoted By: >>1210471

>>1207976
The American ones look like they do because of the design philosophy behind it (in short, Americans deem accidents unavoidable and thus they design the trains with that in mind, reinforced and all), while Europeans strive to avoid accidents as much as possible with advanced automation. That leads to lighter designs, with manufacturers putting more effort in making the trains more energy efficient.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Jun 2018 22:59:53 No.1208010 Report

Quoted By: >>1208158 >>1221319

>>1207513

Honestly the T1 would have been better as a 3-cylinder 4-8-4. The 4-4-4-4 configuration made it fast but it had CONSTANT wheelslip issues.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Jul 2018 08:31:34 No.1208158 Report

Quoted By: >>1221319

>>1208010
It's because there's less boiler above the front wheelset. Most of the loco above the front wheels is smokebox, which is nowhere near as dense.

This might be rectified in the new build if they have to build a ballast tank to keep the adhesion factor up.

Added to that, crews on the T1 were often untrained or used to K4s which handled very differently

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Jul 2018 08:38:27 No.1208159 Report

Quoted By: >>1208169

>>1207976
I think there's a beauty in the American trains; the raw, industrial look has a brutal aesthetic I appreciate. I'm not so much into European trains, some of the freight haulers look kinda like the 'Murkin ones but no where near as badass.

I guess the biggest reason for trains looking like that is the same as cars and trucks and everything else; economical and functional design took priority over aesthetic design.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 Jul 2018 09:29:15 No.1208169 Report

Quoted By: >>1220741

>>1208159
I do like the American aesthetic, but a lot of companies go a little TOO utilitarian for my tastes. A little paint can go a long way.
It's no Pennsy, but I honestly think the FEC's got some of the best-looking modern trains in the country.
It's pretty amazing what a bright coat of paint and a slick design can get you.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 02 Jul 2018 07:59:06 No.1208522 Report

Quoted By:

>>1207513
I'm kind of split on whether I like the design they used on the prototypes better or the design they actually went with.
I really like how they had the skirt go down to the golden line on the prototype, but I like the nose of the final product.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Jul 2018 04:38:00 No.1208897 Report

Quoted By:

>>1207930
Damn...

Why the hell did these all get scrapped?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 04 Jul 2018 04:30:56 No.1209359 Report

Quoted By: >>1209677

These mad motherfuckers are doing it. I'd love to ride this thing when it's done.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 04 Jul 2018 07:28:24 No.1209409 Report

Quoted By: >>1216439

>>1207930
>>1207513
they look kinda like jets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Jul 2018 21:40:09 No.1209677 Report

Quoted By: >>1214466

>>1209359
>Those nice clean lines because no-one uses rivets anymore.
Holy fuck, if they pull this off, this would look even BETTER than the original.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Jul 2018 22:12:08 No.1210471 Report

Quoted By: >>1210481

>>1207981
>Americans deem accidents unavoidable and thus they design the trains with that in mind, reinforced and all

The unironic and stated position of US carriers with regard to accidents is that all accidents can be prevented.

North American engines are designed to be easy for mechanical forces to access and to survive grade crossing collisions. That's the only philosophy behind their design.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Jul 2018 22:39:56 No.1210481 Report

Quoted By: >>1212199

>>1210471
you can stop all train accidents by relegating them to the trashbin of history where they belong :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Jul 2018 00:21:41 No.1210507 Report

Quoted By: >>1210517

>>1207573
>>1207570

Not that guy, but if there was one single person I'd blame for that and more it would be Robert Moses. Moses set a pattern for public works and transportation that we'll be living with for some time to come. If you can read The Power Broker, its worth it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Jul 2018 01:31:31 No.1210517 Report

Quoted By: >>1210554

>>1210507
Robert Moses is a meme because he's a convenient scapegoat. Americans had already embraced the automobile and freeways before he had significant power. The advent of civilian jet airliners was the final nail in the coffin for passenger trains. Moses didn't initiate the Eisenhower Interstate Highway System.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 07 Jul 2018 03:20:45 No.1210532 Report

Quoted By: >>1210533 >>1210540

what about edwardian steam locomotives? or Belle Époque locomotives, The British locomotives of that time look so clean and colorful. THOUGH i must say art deco does look nice!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Jul 2018 03:30:22 No.1210533 Report

Quoted By:

>>1210532
Anything Art Deco is utterly A E S T H E T I C
Neo Art Deco movement when?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Jul 2018 04:11:55 No.1210540 Report

Quoted By:

>>1210532
British steam has a really clean aesthetic to it that I've always liked - though I'm still partial to the raw, brute strength of most american steam locos.
I've always felt that the streamliners like the PRR T1 and the NYC Mercury were the best of both worlds. The elegance of a British loco combined with the raw power of an American one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Jul 2018 05:53:27 No.1210554 Report

Quoted By:

>>1210517
Cars are better than trains for short-distance travel in non-congested territory, and jet airliners flying above the weather utterly wreck trains for long-distance travel, especially pre-TSA, which left trains for that Goldilocks zone when it's too long to drive and too short to justify flying, which only really exists in a handful of areas in this country, at least in terms of actually having the passenger volumes to justify building rail in the 1st place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Jul 2018 11:43:59 No.1212199 Report

Quoted By:

>>1210481
How else are we going to move freight? Trucks and aircraft can't move that much shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 00:47:28 No.1214390 Report

Quoted By: >>1214397 >>1214405 >>1214483 >>1215116

What's /n/'s opinion on the Mallard? Apparently the T1 project triggers the shit out of some of it's fans because they're afraid it'll beat it's speed record.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 00:56:24 No.1214397 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214390
The Mallard and the A4 class were like the McLaren F1, masterpieces of lightweight, high precision engineering that finessed their way to all those speed records as elegantly as anything that fast has ever done.

The PRR T1 was like the Bugatti Veyron, a brutish monster of over-engineering that pushed the entire concept of what a steam locomotive was and could be to it's ragged, ridiculous edge, beating speed records into submission with it's retarded amounts of power in the process.

Nobody thinks any less of the F1 in the Veyron era, and if anything, the Veyron's relative vulgarity has only further enshrined the McLaren F1's legendary status.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 01:23:51 No.1214405 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214390
IIRC Baureihe 05 was the fastest steam train on nearly level track at 201 km/h when it had to make up time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 04:34:08 No.1214466 Report

Quoted By:

>>1209677
When they're done, I want to see them either restore a GG1 to operating condition or build either a New York Central Dreyfuss Hudson or a Boston & Maine T1 Berkshire from scratch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 06:01:41 No.1214483 Report

Quoted By: >>1214502 >>1214584

>>1214390

There is no chance that it will. America can't even get regular passenger rail to go that fast. Let alone a one off steam locomotive made by turboautists that still only exists on paper .

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 07:57:13 No.1214502 Report

Quoted By: >>1214599 >>1214733

>>1214483
You do realize that the T1's stomping grounds still exist, right? The names have changed, but whether you call it by the PRR or Amtrak, It's still there.
Really, Amtrak would have to be complete idiots to not treat it like the public relations windfall It'd be... so they'd probably have to wait a few directors before one of them gives them permission to run on the NEC.
If it's built, It'd happen eventually. Someone would be curious enough to try it, and some other people would have the means to implement it. It'd be a matter of when, not if.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 14:21:59 No.1214584 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214483
The trust is considering both the DOT test track and old PPR lines if they can. Progress is being made and several excursion lines have expressed intent to use it. I dont know why you autists are so determined to see this project fail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 15:12:59 No.1214599 Report

Quoted By: >>1214696

>>1214502
>look at this old steam loco
>it is faster than our fastest train

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 16:32:30 No.1214617 Report

Quoted By: >>1214649

I would be seriously interested in modern biofuel fired condenser steam locos for regular use on non electrified track.
They could run CO2 neutral, don't need to refill water and run way higher boiler pressures than old steam ever did.
Best thing is that they don't require special liquid fuels of certain properties, they can run solid fuels with no issue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 17:41:34 No.1214649 Report

Quoted By: >>1214653

>>1214617
Steam locomotives suck at pulling trains in comparison to diesel/electric stuff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 17:56:47 No.1214653 Report

Quoted By: >>1214681 >>1214699

>>1214649
I wouldn't say that, even old ones where able to pull verry heavy freight trains in the mountains or at rather fast speed for the time.

Take for example the American locomotive company 4000 series, designed to tow over 4000 tons through the mountains with over 600 kN of force.
That is more than 2x of what a Taurus can pull.
Or the Pennsylvania Railroad Company T1 that had wheelspin at 100 mph.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 19:01:22 No.1214681 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214653
These fucking things really earned their nickname, didn't they?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 19:52:49 No.1214696 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214599
It'd most likely still be slower than the Acela (though not by much).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 19:56:43 No.1214699 Report

Quoted By: >>1214702

>>1214653
>I wouldn't say that, even old ones where able to pull verry heavy freight trains in the mountains or at rather fast speed for the time.
>Take for example the American locomotive company 4000 series, designed to tow over 4000 tons through the mountains with over 600 kN of force.
>That is more than 2x of what a Taurus can pull.
>Or the Pennsylvania Railroad Company T1 that had wheelspin at 100 mph.

Big boys would be outpulled by a single modern 4000hp diesel. T1s would be outpulled by AEM7. At low speed you'd need two big boys to handle SD70ACe.

They were big, but in comparison to modern stuff, they suck.

For example - Big Boy has something north of 6000hp, but at 40mph or so. At 5 mph it is barely 500 or so.

Steam-mechanical locomotives suck major ass - the only thing about them is that they look cool.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 20:09:21 No.1214702 Report

Quoted By: >>1214704

>>1214699
Name a diesel loco that outpulls a bigboy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 20:12:34 No.1214704 Report

Quoted By: >>1214706

>>1214702
Any modern 6 axle diesel, SD40 probably with a good driver, DDA40x and other 8 axle twin engines - for sure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 20:17:47 No.1214706 Report

Quoted By: >>1214711

>>1214704
Source?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 20:29:11 No.1214711 Report

Quoted By: >>1214714 >>1214715

>>1214706
Comparison of publicly available data on all locomotives in question. Knowledge of how diesel-electric DC and AC tracton works. Likewise with steam locomotives.

Also - I hope you don't expect an actual comparison of a long dead technology from 80 years ago with a modern AC diesel-electric with creep control systems.

However, just for your retarded arse:
SD70ACe tractive effort: 157000 lbf
Big Boy Tractive effort: 135000 lbf

AS70ACe power @ 10mph - 4000hp
Big Boy power @ 10mph - ~786,25hp

Yea. Biggy would get BTFOed hard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 20:33:56 No.1214714 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214711
>Big Boy power @ 10mph - ~786,25hp
correction - it should be ~1500hp. Still gets btfoed

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 20:39:12 No.1214715 Report

Quoted By: >>1214717

>>1214711
Your calculation makes no sense, at the same speed and only 16,3% less traction effort, the bigboy can't have multiple times less power output than the SD70ACe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 20:48:27 No.1214717 Report

Quoted By: >>1214725

>>1214715
Sir. Your understainding of the topic is lackluster.

Steam locomotives have fixed gearing and deliver their power one steam puff at a time. How many puffs per minute you can deliver depends on the drive gear and thus the faster you go, the more power you produce. This is why power for steam locomotives is usually given with a speed at which it reaches maximum. For Big Boy it is 6300hp@41mph. At half that speed BB produces half that power, because wheels rotate, obviously, 50% slower.

A model for steam locomotives is 'constant force' with power scaling linearily with it. Up until you run our of steam. This is why those Erie Triplexes could run at 8mph at most.

Electric or diesel electric locomotives, in contrast, can deliver all of its rated power at 0mph and you are limited only by amount of heat your motors can handle and grip to the rail.

That is why D/E is modeled as 'constant power' vehicle.

Moreover - steam locomotives deliver power in pulses, so they have less grip for the same adhesive weight. D/E produces power smoothly, so it gets better grip. That is why SD70ACe with modulated power electronics is much better footed then BB in spite of having half of BBs weight.

Mate - there is reason why diesels took over.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 21:05:37 No.1214725 Report

Quoted By: >>1214735

>>1214717
The diesel is also limited in traction force, meaning it can also has constant force up to a certain speed, where the engine is too weak to keep upt the force and it turns into constant power.

Also at 0 mph you can deliver exactly 0 hp, just a force, no matter how the power is delivered to the wheels.

Power=energy/time
Watt=Joule/seco d

Energy=force*distance
Joule=Newton*meter

Power=force*distance/time
Watt=Newton*meter/second

Distance/time=speed
Power=force*speed

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 21:17:38 No.1214733 Report

Quoted By: >>1214747

>>1214502
>Amtrak would have to be complete idiots to not treat it like the public relations windfall It'd be

DELUSION

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 21:18:48 No.1214735 Report

Quoted By: >>1214740

>>1214725

>The diesel is also limited in traction force, meaning it can also has constant force up to a certain speed, where the engine is too weak to keep upt the force and it turns into constant power.

This is true, but both designs are at a loss here. Except D/E wins here because it has a higher factor of adhesion. For a modern D/E locos FoA is about 0.35. For steam locomotives of the BB era it is closer to 0.15 for the best designs. So at any speed D/E has its power cap much higher.

Moreover - for most locomotives these days, they can push that 4000hp to the rail from 10mph or so. Calculate it, your formulas seem to be fine. At 10mph BB is going to be at 1500hp still.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 21:25:55 No.1214740 Report

Quoted By: >>1214749

>>1214735
Traction force of the big boy is only 16,3% lower that from the diesel loco, so its power output at 10 mph is also only 16,3% lower, wich is not all that much of a difference.
This means if the big boy cam put down 1500 hp, the diesel will put down 1792 hp.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 21:37:47 No.1214747 Report

Quoted By: >>1215275

>>1214733
You did read what I wrote immediately after that sentence, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 21:41:35 No.1214749 Report

Quoted By: >>1214754

>>1214740
>This means if the big boy cam put down 1500 hp, the diesel will put down 1792 hp.

Your calculations are off:

V = P / F
V * F = P
F = P / V

P = 3200kw ( 4300hp, sd70ACE rating )
V = 16km/h ( 10 mph ) -> 4.44 m/s

F = ( 3200 * 10^3 ) / 4.44
F = 720 * 10^3N

So SD70ACe can push most if not all of its rated power to the rail at 10mph. So, yeah. BB you get btfoed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 22:01:42 No.1214754 Report

Quoted By: >>1214757

>>1214749
I never said it would put down 1500 hp at 10 mph, I never specified a speed at all.
The bigboy can put down 83,7% of the diesel locos force, so under grip limited conditions, the big boy can put down 83,7% of the power.

However as soon as the big boy reaches a speed of 19,14 km/h it outperforms the diesel loco since it can now put down more than 3200 kW.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 22:09:32 No.1214757 Report

Quoted By: >>1214762

>>1214754
>I never said it would put down 1500 hp at 10 mph, I never specified a speed at all.
>The bigboy can put down 83,7% of the diesel locos force, so under grip limited conditions, the big boy can put down 83,7% of the power.
>However as soon as the big boy reaches a speed of 19,14 km/h it outperforms the diesel loco since it can now put down more than 3200 kW.

Both of those things are false. TE on the spec sheet is always stated from the standstill and is the maximum tractive force. Actual force produced at speed V is, on the engineer's desk, calculated from this formula

TEactual = min( TEmax, P / V )

Since P for steam locomotives is speed dependant, while P for diesles isn't, you are wrong on all accounts. At 19.4 km/h BB would produce 1900hp. SD70ACe would now be happily churning out 4300hp.

I bet you also think that GG1 was the best shit ever. Cult of BB and GG1 is very common among US foamers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 22:24:51 No.1214762 Report

Quoted By: >>1214765

>>1214757
>power output for diesel is unrelated to velocity
That is wrong, as it is limited by the available traction, just like the steam loco.
It can't put down more power than it has grip.
Only difference is that the bigboy has 16,3% less traction force.
At 19,136 km/h it has a power output of 602kN*5,3156m/s=3200kW wich is the same as the 3200kW of the diesel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 22:38:49 No.1214765 Report

Quoted By: >>1214787

>>1214762
>602kN*5,3156m/s=3200kW
That's not how it works anon.

Rated TE of a locomotive is based on its adhesive weight and is the upper limit of the TE it can produce. It is relevant at the lowest speeds only. I already gave you the formula to calculate it.

> TEactual = min( TEmax, P / V )

TEmax is what you get from the locomotice data sheet

SD70ACe at 10mph produces 720kN because it can push 4000hp to the rail.
BB at 10mph produces 337kN.

At 1mph they are at their adhesion limit, so BB does 602kN and SD70ACe does 720kN.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 22:40:28 No.1214767 Report

Quoted By:

>>1207513

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 23:11:21 No.1214787 Report

Quoted By: >>1215092

>>1214765
Anon, the big boy has more than enough torque to spinn its wheels and enough power to do so at speeds up to about 37,7 km/h.
Also the torque curve of a steam engine is essentialy flat up untill the steam supply drops in pressure or the valves run into a flow limit
Up to that speed its force is a constant, limited by the coefficient of friction and load on the driven wheels.
It has just 16,3% less traction than the diesel loco.

At 19,136 km/h both can put down the same 3200 kW, since at that point the big boy has reached just enough speed to do so with 602 kN while the diesel has just 3200 kW.
Beyond 19,136 km/h the power output of the bigboy increases further up to 4690 kW.

Or to make ist short:
>traction force at low speed is constant due to wheelslip
>traction power at high speed is constant due to engine power

Since the diesel has a little more grip, it can pull a little stronger at low speeds, however the bigboy has more power, so it can pull stronger at high speeds.
They break even at 19,136 km/h since they both can put down the same power at that speed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 17:11:10 No.1215092 Report

Quoted By: >>1215110

>>1214787
>Anon, the big boy has more than enough torque to spinn its wheels and enough power to do so at speeds up to about 37,7 km/h.
>Also the torque curve of a steam engine is essentialy flat up untill the steam supply drops in pressure or the valves run into a flow limit
>Up to that speed its force is a constant, limited by the coefficient of friction and load on the driven wheels.

In the context of steam traction, or railroad tech in general, we talk about tractive effort. What you say is kind of true, but it also puts BB tractive effort at 270kN@40mph.

>It has just 16,3% less traction than the diesel loco.

At 0km/h. Because:

"Tractive effort is a measure of the heaviest load a locomotive can start or haul at very low speed..."

Big boy does not develop 600+ kN of tractive effort at 10mph. That is because power of steam locomotives is not constant in relation to speed and you _need_ constant power to keep that 600kN. In reality BB develops much less then that at 10mph.

>Beyond 19,136 km/h the power output of the bigboy increases further up to 4690 kW.

Yes. at 41mph ( 65km/h ), as stated in its specifications.

>They break even at 19,136 km/h since they both can put down the same power at that speed.

They don't. That's not how steam engines work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 18:06:55 No.1215110 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215092
A steam engine has constant torque =/= constant power at low speeds, in case of steap powered locos this torque usualy is more than required to loose traction.
In case of the bigboy that happens at 602 kN of force.

At 10 mph it is still in constant torque -> constant force.
It can keep up 602 kN of traction untill reaching almost 4690 kW.

At 19,136 km/h the amount of power it can put down reaches 3200 kW, just like the diesel.

Beyond a certain speed the traction force of the loco drops down, since in case of steam locos either the boiler can't produce that much steam or the valves can't flow enough.

It is simmilar for the diesel loco, it can't put down 3200 kW at low speeds since it is limited by its traction and it can't keep its traction force up at high speed because it only has 3200 kW.

They break even at 19,136 km/h since at that point both can put down 3200 kW, here is why:
Steam engines make all their torque from 0 rpm on and only drop at high rpm, wich is why they don't need a clutch or something like that, just like the electric motors in a diesel electric loco.
While the bigboy still struggles with traction (602 kN*5,3156 m/s =3200 kW), the diesel already runs into its power limit (3200kW).

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1280px-Number_4468_Mallard_in_York.jpg, 277KiB, 1280x960

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 18:29:06 No.1215116 Report

Quoted By: >>1215134 >>1215159 >>1215172 >>1215267 >>1227348

>>1214390
The A4 remains probably the only good-looking streamlined locomotive ever made.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1280px-PRR_S1[1].jpg, 194KiB, 1280x662

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 19:19:39 No.1215134 Report

Quoted By: >>1215299

>>1215116
false

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 6229_DUCHESS_OF_HAMILTON_Nationa (...).jpg, 82KiB, 640x427

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 19:58:14 No.1215159 Report

Quoted By: >>1215182 >>1215217

>>1215116

False

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO NYCMERCNWOP.jpg, 145KiB, 1785x954

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:01:22 No.1215172 Report

Quoted By: >>1215217 >>1219511

>>1215116
false

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO P8145081.jpg, 167KiB, 1000x687

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:26:19 No.1215182 Report

Quoted By: >>1215194

>>1215159
No, don't. The Coronation Class streamlining is an abomination.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Flying_scotsman.jpg, 573KiB, 1600x1200

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:00:36 No.1215194 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215182
By that logic, the A4 is one too

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:54:17 No.1215217 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215172
>>1215159
bathtubs

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Tennessean64.jpg, 92KiB, 640x450

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 01:11:26 No.1215267 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215116
False

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 01:27:14 No.1215275 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214747
Yes, doesn't make it any less stupid

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 03:08:17 No.1215299 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215134
damn straight

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO BC015292-9126-4FE5-9E75-1DFF38BF (...).jpg, 48KiB, 511x288

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 12:14:03 No.1215415 Report

Quoted By:

Most classes in Australia (made after 1875 at least) avoided the cutter’s torch.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Guillaume Emmanuel de Homem-Chri (...).png, 2MiB, 1440x918

Anonymous Sat 21 Jul 2018 22:18:42 No.1216439 Report

Quoted By:

>>1209409

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 22 Jul 2018 01:31:01 No.1216490 Report

Quoted By:

i think all these cool-ass designs could come back with electric trains, just need a new battery chemistry paradigm to replace lithium, with like double the energy density, then you'll see it in everything.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO leader-04.jpg, 36KiB, 450x195

Anonymous Tue 24 Jul 2018 22:12:20 No.1217701 Report

Quoted By: >>1217706 >>1217867 >>1218027

what about the ultimate in Bulleid streamlining?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Jul 2018 22:17:03 No.1217706 Report

Quoted By: >>1217867 >>1218027

>>1217701

More like the ultimate in Bulleid shitposting t b h

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Jul 2018 09:42:32 No.1217867 Report

Quoted By: >>1218027

>>1217701
>>1217706
Bulleid was such a fucking troll.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tb61_w7.gif, 293KiB, 713x430

Anonymous Wed 25 Jul 2018 21:12:38 No.1218027 Report

Quoted By: >>1219566

>>1217706
>>1217867
>>1217701
Bulleid had a thing for Bogey steam locomotives
The leaders younger bother the
>TURF BURNER

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO pplc4094.jpg, 37KiB, 482x449

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 16:08:40 No.1219417 Report

Quoted By:

I went looking for surviving streamlined locomotives in America and found this. It's a streamlined fireless 0-8-0.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO slug2.jpg, 106KiB, 600x397

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 16:21:39 No.1219420 Report

Quoted By: >>1219441 >>1219484 >>1219520

Regarding diesels vs. steam. There's the statement that a diesel electric can use its full power at low speeds. If this were true, road slugs would not be a thing. For those that don't know, a road slug is a typically a an otherwise road worthy locomotive whose prime mover has become worn out and has been removed. Rather than scrap them or part them out, some railroads, like Norfolk Southern, will full the empty space with ballast, usually concrete. In some cases the cab and full hood height will be retained. In others, like pic related, will have their hoods cut down for visibility. Cab equipped slugs are quite popular with crews since they lack the vibration of a complete locomotive with a prime mover on board Excess power is fed from the complete locomotive to the road slug(s) at low speeds for additional traction. This is because if full power were fed to the traction motors at low speed it would quickly overheat and fry them. If road slugs are used in a mainline consist once the train is moving at higher speeds power to the road slug will be cut as the locomotive's traction motors can make full use of the power its prime mover can generate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 17:46:17 No.1219441 Report

Quoted By: >>1220200

>>1219420
>This is because if full power were fed to the traction motors at low speed it would quickly overheat and fry them.
Or the alternative would be A WICKED BURNOUT.
https://youtu.be/CCq85tvWpwM

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:23:32 No.1219484 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219420
Diesel-electric locomotives do give nearly their full torque at startup, slugs exist to mitigate wheel slip as a result of that. That's why they're used in yard service and seldom ever seen on through freights (as the locomotive that powers the slug has to be modified to provide electricity to the slug). Handy for trimmer and hump jobs where speed isn't important but adhesion and braking is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 21:50:09 No.1219511 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215172
This one always bothers me because those front steps are so horrifically draggy that they probably cancel out any aerodynamic benefits from the whole rest of the streamlining.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20180727_121411.jpg, 3MiB, 4048x3036

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 22:18:37 No.1219520 Report

Quoted By: >>1219529 >>1219561 >>1219576

>>1219420
Is this a road slug? There was a Dash 9 in front of it

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ns712a.jpg, 642KiB, 999x674

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 22:42:23 No.1219529 Report

Quoted By: >>1219576

>>1219520
Yes, though that one is used by Norfolk Southern for reseach purposes. It's considered part of the NS Office Car Special fleet, about half of which is used for research and development. Here's one with the cab and long hood intact. You will occasionally see them out on the mainline.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO image009.gif, 77KiB, 470x302

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 00:14:56 No.1219557 Report

Quoted By: >>1219608

Norfolk & Western J Class
>The Class J was designed for a maximum tractive effort of 80,000 pounds. Under controlled tests, an average drawbar horsepower of 5,028 was realized at a speed of 41.03 miles per hour.
>Under test conditions, the Class J locomotive propelled a 15-car, 1015-ton passenger train at 110 miles per hour on level tangent track. Performance in regular service was equally impressive, with speeds on straight sections of track reported to approach 100 miles per hour.
>The Class J was mounted on a rigid steel frame cast by General Steel Castings Corporation. This huge one-piece casting included not only the complete locomotive frame, but the two cylinders, the mounting brackets for certain auxiliaries and an extended support for the cab
>A unique side-rod-and-driver counter-balancing design permitted speeds in excess of 100 miles per hour with drivers only 70 inches in diameter. According to vibration calculations, the balancing theoretically would have allowed speeds of up to 140 miles per hour without rail damage.
>Mechanical pressurized lubrication systems could operate 1300 miles between refills, feeding oil to 220 points. Grease fittings were located to allow fast relubrication of 72 points.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 00:33:13 No.1219561 Report

Quoted By: >>1219576

>>1219520
I saw this pic the other day and was wondering what the deal with the missing part on top was. Makes sense that it was a slug.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Southern_Pacific_4449.jpg, 308KiB, 1024x702

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 01:02:05 No.1219564 Report

Quoted By: >>1219569 >>1219851

Southern Pacific GS4 #4449

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO shay01.jpg, 45KiB, 794x395

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 01:06:54 No.1219566 Report

Quoted By: >>1219584

>>1218027
Is that a conventional piston locomotive with trucks like a Shay or Climax?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO booster.jpg, 7KiB, 200x150

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 01:27:30 No.1219569 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219564
A lot of the big steam locomotives with drivers in excess of 72 inches did have trouble getting started or pulling at low speeds. The majority of them were fitted with booster trucks. The N&W J Class didn't need them, but types like the SP GS4 had 80 inch drivers and would have struggled without them. Booster trucks were basically a trailing truck fitted with a small but powerful steam engine to help give the locomotive a "shove" they would be disengaged at about 20 miles per hour. For example, the Southern Pacific GS4 had a normal tractive effort of 66,326 ft lbs, but with the booster truck providing an assist, ha a tractive effort of 78,000 ft lbs spfrom a standing start and up to 20 miles per hour. Pic is the cylinder of a booster truck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 02:16:43 No.1219576 Report

Quoted By: >>1219580

>>1219520
>>1219529
>>1219561

I looked that thing up and it's a research vehicle with a lot of track geometry equipment on it. No traction motors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 02:25:26 No.1219580 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219576
I knew it was for research. I didn't know it had no traction motors.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO c0e61c9d8d9a1abf45b6b9f5dc6a6adb.jpg, 142KiB, 1024x787

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 02:52:06 No.1219584 Report

Quoted By: >>1219585

>>1219566
Speaking of Shays, I was at Cass Scenic yesterday and saw my 1st one in the flesh and running.

Cass is definitely a "must" for any steam autists on the east coast. They have 4 running Shays including the 2nd largest ever built, 1 running Heisler, and are in the process of restoring the largest Climax loco left, and they run a 100% steam-powered scenic railway with them.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 5115424279_835f0f8f78_b.jpg, 389KiB, 1024x683

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 02:53:09 No.1219585 Report

Quoted By: >>1220221

>>1219584
And here's their big Shay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 06:33:55 No.1219608 Report

Quoted By: >>1219647

>>1219557
How the fuck had I not heard of this before? That is a FINE locomotive - very elegant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 10:35:13 No.1219647 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219608
Not sure. There's one left, #611. It's still operational and runs excursions regularly.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1523339919186.jpg, 47KiB, 500x500

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 14:46:44 No.1219717 Report

Quoted By: >>1219851 >>1225151

>>1207534
STOP STOP STOP I CAN ONLY FEEL SO MUCH TODAY

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 16464587962_51ee5fc1c5_b.jpg, 591KiB, 1024x689

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 00:50:01 No.1219851 Report

Quoted By: >>1219853 >>1219857 >>1220103 >>1220128

>>1219717
Union Pacific has kept #844, a 4-8-4 FEF-3, on its roster and runs regular excursions on its mainline. In fact the #844 is the only steam locomotive to have never been retired from a US Class I railroad. The Union Pacific also owns and runs #3985, a 4-6-6-4 Challenger. They are also in the process of restoring #4014, a 4-8-8-4 Big Boy. #3985 has been down for several years because #844 and #3984 came up for their 15 year inspection/rebuilds at the same time and UP chose to rebuild #844 first. Then the opportunity to acquire #4014 came up and the steam shop crew was put on that instead. #3984 will come back up when #4014 is finished. There's also >>1219564 the Southern Pacific #4449 which runs excursions on the West Coast with original passenger equipment.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO KATUP844.jpg, 82KiB, 750x370

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 00:53:48 No.1219853 Report

Quoted By: >>1219857

>>1219851

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Farewell to the First Lady of St (...).jpg, 61KiB, 522x348

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 01:00:08 No.1219855 Report

Quoted By:

Basically, anyone who says there are no heritage railroads in the US hasn't looked very far. They're all over the place. Most have just 6 or 7 miles of mainline, but they run regular excursions. For example, the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum in Chattanooga. They have three working steam locomotives, about a dozen diesels, twice that many passenger cars and about six miles of line they run excursions three times a day as well as an all day excursion on the line from Chattanooga to Kennesaw, Georgia the run once or twice a month.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 01:13:00 No.1219857 Report

Quoted By: >>1220532 >>1220860

>>1219851
>>1219853

844 is also literally /ourlocomotive/, doing it's part to rid the world of dumb thots.

https://youtu.be/14xbsubeb2Y

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 21:55:08 No.1220103 Report

Quoted By: >>1220222

>>1219851
There's Santa Fe 3751 as well, which does occasional mainline runs around Southern California. It's down for a boiler inspection at the moment, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp-b4Ce4Mf4

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 23:35:10 No.1220128 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219851
Georgia may not have many steam locomotives that survive or even less that run. But the south eastern railway museum is in the process Mason bogie Type (No. 1509 ) with it being the last steam locomotive in Atlanta

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Aug 2018 02:44:00 No.1220200 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219441
Exactly what I said all the time, the diesel is limited by its traction.
Same goes for steam:
https://youtu.be/Ft2RD9c_T34
Both can slip their wheels up to a certain speed.

Note:
Sometimes this is done intentionaly after locking up the wheels during braking to remove the flat section.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Aug 2018 04:14:49 No.1220221 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219585
I went to Cass once when I was around 3 - 5 years old, and this guy ran our train.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 2835_1353430459.jpg, 1MiB, 1200x819

Anonymous Thu 02 Aug 2018 04:21:55 No.1220222 Report

Quoted By: >>1220230

>>1220103
Everytime I see that thing, I'll always be reminded of these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7VWaIXbrw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwY6Ul_Yq-Y

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Aug 2018 05:06:52 No.1220230 Report

Quoted By: >>1220240 >>1220377 >>1220865

>>1220222
Never understood why they don't just have light engines running by themselves ahead of the excursion train ready to assist if the steam engine goes down

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Aug 2018 06:19:35 No.1220240 Report

Quoted By: >>1220241

>>1220230
takes less fuel, and they're probably deadheading them somewhere, otherwise there wouldn't be 3 of em

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Aug 2018 06:27:53 No.1220241 Report

Quoted By: >>1220246

>>1220240
Only marginally less fuel, moving locos around w/o trailing tonnage isn't gonna make them suck the diesel down, if they're being deadheaded they're going to get to the other end of the line either way

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Aug 2018 07:09:21 No.1220246 Report

Quoted By: >>1220366

>>1220241
you also have to pay for the train crew to drive them

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Aug 2018 17:57:38 No.1220366 Report

Quoted By:

>>1220246
They probably already have a conventional train crew on them

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Aug 2018 19:25:08 No.1220377 Report

Quoted By: >>1220481

>>1220230 Provides dynamic braking and extra power if needed. Remember, steam engines only have conventional braking, so if they were going down a steep grade they'd have to get out and pop retainers. There isn't a crew on the diesels, all modern excursion engines have been retrofitted with the needed electrical equipment to be MU'd to the helpers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Aug 2018 01:35:58 No.1220481 Report

Quoted By: >>1220866

>>1220377
You don't need dynamic brakes and you don't need to fuck with retainers. Just use the air like they did before diesels.

Do you have a pic of the control stand in a steam engine? I doubt they can do any kind of m.u. stuff from the steam loco aside from automatic & independent brakes.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO maaahhhhweee.jpg, 2MiB, 2000x1366

Anonymous Fri 03 Aug 2018 05:31:41 No.1220532 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219857
That's amazing

threadripper guy

threadripper guy Fri 03 Aug 2018 20:40:16 No.1220740 Report

Quoted By: >>1220756

PRR T1 a best

supposedly they have been up to 140mph, noted by the repairmen who constantly were fixing the poppet valves on them after running that kind of speed.

threadripper guy

threadripper guy Fri 03 Aug 2018 20:44:16 No.1220741 Report

Quoted By:

>>1208169

Floridafag here, their old CEO James Hertwig apparently saw one of the old 50's Champion E-series at Gold Coast Railway Museum and wanted it on all of their locomotives because he thought it looked nice.

Even their GP40s got the retro treatment from the early 60s when they first went blue.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO haters.jpg, 109KiB, 1022x658

Anonymous Fri 03 Aug 2018 22:09:41 No.1220756 Report

Quoted By:

>>1220740
>supposedly they have been up to 140mph

Come the fuck on lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Aug 2018 04:07:09 No.1220860 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219857
Could it beat the Mallard?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB7bWGAzwas&t=320s

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Aug 2018 04:21:49 No.1220865 Report

Quoted By: >>1220868

>>1220230
I can't say for certain for the SF #3751, but the UP #844 will run with a diesel for two reasons. The primary is steep downhill grades. If the #844 is traveling steep downhill grades alone, limiters must be installed on the valve gear to prevent running away. Installing or removing the valve gear limiters takes over an hour. With a diesel providing dynamic braking, this is not necessary. The second is water consumption. The steam locomotive support system in the Southwest was removed decades ago, meaning places that the UP can water its steam locomotives are far between in remote stretches of the route. The diesel provides motive power during these stretches while the steam locomotive "rests" conserving water. In other cases, if you see a diesel at the head of a modern passenger consist behind a steam locomotive, it's there to provide electrical power to the cars.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO steamworkshop_webupload_previewf (...).jpg, 121KiB, 500x333

Anonymous Sat 04 Aug 2018 04:25:09 No.1220866 Report

Quoted By: >>1220867

>>1220481
UP #844 and #3985 have MU gear in their cabs. I assume #4014 will as well.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1506154723594.jpg, 11KiB, 357x412

Anonymous Sat 04 Aug 2018 04:31:15 No.1220867 Report

Quoted By: >>1220958

>>1220866
>Having steam engines that need diesel assistance so much they get MU'ed

lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Aug 2018 04:33:47 No.1220868 Report

Quoted By: >>1220958

>>1220865
Thanks. Wonder what 844 did before diesels exists on downhill grades though. Is everyone scared to use air?

I remember taking excursions on the NS with 611 and 1218 and they never had diesels in the consist, but that was a time when you could actually railroad and didn't need 2 managers to every trainman (all in high vis vests ofc)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Aug 2018 12:25:27 No.1220958 Report

Quoted By: >>1221193

>>1220867
So there have been a couple of incedents where both the #844 and the #3985 have been pulled from excursion duty to assist a freight with mechanical problems. They mostly get used for excursions and other public relations, but the UP's steam locomotives are on the active roster and listed as available assets on the days that they run. Adding MU makes them better able to fill that role when needed.
>>1220868
Depends of the specific locomotives. In the case of the UP FEF series, they scheduled stops to ad or remove the valve gear limiters. The N&W J Class was arguably the most technically advanced steam locomotive ever built and may not need any additional gear for running in mountain terrain. It was built specifically for that sort of running. The A Class was built for similar terrain. One other reason for not needing diesels in the Eastern US is there are more available watering and refueling opportunities than in the desert Southwest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Aug 2018 04:57:59 No.1221193 Report

Quoted By: >>1221557

>>1220958
>Adding MU makes them better able to fill that role when needed.
Sounds like it's the opposite, UP's steam engines fully reply on diesels now and adding some diesel controls is a natural result of that. If the Big Boy has m.u. controls added, well, WHAT A JOKE.

>may not need any additional gear for running in mountain terrain.
Again I have to ask, what did they do when going downhill with heavy freight trains back when they were in use? It's not like the UP was a flat railroad.

844 sounds like a piece of shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Aug 2018 14:12:15 No.1221319 Report

Quoted By: >>1221514 >>1221538

>>1208158
>>1208010
I've also heard the wheelslip may have been caused by the lack of baffles in the boiler. So when the engine starts moving there's a water surge that drastically changes the center of gravity, probably not helped by the static imbalance and the lack of training.
>This might be rectified in the new build if they...
They're not changing a fucking thing, the point is to prove once and for all that the T1 was the best steam locomotive ever built. I'm sure it'll turn out just great for them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Aug 2018 23:08:55 No.1221514 Report

Quoted By:

>>1221319
I don't get the point of not using technological advances in design to produce an engine similar to the original. All the streamlining is just exterior cladding anyway.

No way that thing's ever going to be built

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 01:23:36 No.1221538 Report

Quoted By:

>>1221319
>They're not changing a fucking thing
That's not completely true. They're against making major changes to the design, yes, but they're not going to keep things that are completely detrimental. For example, the loco's going to be welded because nobody uses fucking rivets anymore. That's going to make the loco MUCH lighter, which is something they're trying to account for.
To put it generally, they're against design changes, not technical fixes.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tr_nw2300e.jpg, 264KiB, 1713x1348

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 03:12:52 No.1221555 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 03:25:15 No.1221557 Report

Quoted By: >>1221565

>>1221193
>UP's steam engines fully reply on diesels now
But they don't. They sometimes use diesels when it makes logistic sense. Other times they operate with no diesils
>Again I have to ask, what did they do when going downhill with heavy freight trains back when they were in use?
Added limiting gear on the valve train. I think I mentioned that.
>844 sounds like a piece of shit
Well, like, that's just your opinion, man. We get it. You hate steam. Go jack off to an SD90 or something.

UP#3985 hauling freight in 1991
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyZD7fJ12WI

#844 Hauling revenue freight from Denver to Cheyenne on July 23, 2018.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPLekSSiQ8Y

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 03:30:28 No.1221559 Report

Quoted By:

Norfolk & Western 611 running Forth of July weekend, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZvHbXyAJ0M

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 03:34:02 No.1221562 Report

Quoted By:

Norfolk & Western promotional video made in 1944
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH_o5xZ8wRU

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 03:44:30 No.1221565 Report

Quoted By: >>1221581 >>1221819

>>1221557
>Having to stop and add some contraption to your steam locomotive to go downhill
>Not a piece of shit

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ATSF3751greenriver12jan99.jpg, 341KiB, 1024x701

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 03:55:12 No.1221567 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1521829204548.jpg, 214KiB, 1600x1190

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:00:18 No.1221569 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO download (15).jpg, 50KiB, 700x466

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:01:29 No.1221571 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO download (14).jpg, 159KiB, 1024x617

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:02:18 No.1221572 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO download (29).jpg, 640KiB, 1200x817

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:03:21 No.1221573 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO download (34).jpg, 210KiB, 1024x787

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:05:47 No.1221574 Report

Quoted By:

Less elegant, more brutal. PM #1225 and NP #765, the last two running Lima built Berkshires.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO download (35).jpg, 354KiB, 1024x699

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:06:47 No.1221575 Report

Quoted By:

Lima family portrait.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO download (36).jpg, 74KiB, 720x480

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:07:42 No.1221576 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO download (37).jpg, 872KiB, 3000x2000

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:08:30 No.1221577 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO lner8.jpg, 65KiB, 580x364

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:09:40 No.1221578 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO N&WPoccahantas.jpg, 612KiB, 1577x1081

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:10:20 No.1221579 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO PM1225.jpg, 238KiB, 1920x1080

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:11:20 No.1221580 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 04:12:40 No.1221581 Report

Quoted By:

>>1221565
>(You)

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DctUJK2.jpg, 3MiB, 4032x2268

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 19:08:13 No.1221776 Report

Quoted By: >>1221804

>>1207513
I sincerely hope that one day someone finds the money to return it to running condition. The world needs more operable 30s/40s streamliners.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO BOP7D5301.jpg, 688KiB, 1000x700

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 21:57:07 No.1221804 Report

Quoted By: >>1221833 >>1221862

>>1221776
Still deeply distraught the B&O did not have the foresight of the C&O to save both a streamlined loco and one of their giants (Allegheny for the C&O and the EM1 for the B&O)

Attached is the Cincinnatian

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO some contraption.jpg, 10KiB, 259x194

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 22:37:18 No.1221819 Report

Quoted By: >>1221845

>>1221565
>Having to stop and add some contraption to your diesel locomotive to go downhill
>Not a piece of shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Aug 2018 23:16:38 No.1221833 Report

Quoted By: >>1222112

>>1221804
>did not save an allegheney
http://www.borail.org/CO-No1604-Allegheny.aspx

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO grab some air.jpg, 140KiB, 565x1000

Anonymous Tue 07 Aug 2018 00:01:12 No.1221845 Report

Quoted By: >>1221866

>>1221819
>t. brainlet

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Aug 2018 00:47:01 No.1221862 Report

Quoted By: >>1222112

>>1221804
The C&O streamliner is no beauty queen, but that B&O streamliner is K4 streamliner levels of hideous. The Allegheny was the better save for sure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Aug 2018 01:05:14 No.1221866 Report

Quoted By: >>1221873

>>1221845
>steam locomotives don't have air brakes

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Aug 2018 01:18:52 No.1221873 Report

Quoted By: >>1221878

>>1221866
You don't need dynamics to go downhill dummy

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Aug 2018 01:25:07 No.1221878 Report

Quoted By: >>1221888

>>1221873
So why can't steam engines go downhill?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Aug 2018 02:06:01 No.1221888 Report

Quoted By:

>>1221878
In 844's case they have to stop and install limiters or use diesels for dynamic braking b/c they're scared

Fucked up

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO half_naked_by_holzernes_herz.jpg, 131KiB, 1024x660

Anonymous Tue 07 Aug 2018 02:46:17 No.1221901 Report

Quoted By: >>1221904

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Aug 2018 02:50:08 No.1221904 Report

Quoted By:

>>1221901
Went so fast all its streamlined cladding got ripped off. Impressive.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 53011.jpg, 185KiB, 1249x752

Anonymous Wed 08 Aug 2018 00:28:07 No.1222112 Report

Quoted By:

>>1221833
I was refering to the EM1 not being saved like the Allegheny was.

>>1221862
Heresy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 16:10:30 No.1225151 Report

Quoted By: >>1225152 >>1225178

>>1219717
>Heritage railroads by state
>Alabama
Heart of Dixie Railroad Museum, Shelby & Southern Railroad and Calera & Shelby Railroad
North Alabama Railroad Museum, Mercury and Chase Railroad
Wales West Light Railway
>Arizona
Arizona Railway Museum (no excursions listed)
Arizona Street Railway Museum (Phoenix Trolley Museum)
Grand Canyon Railway
McCormick-Stillman Railroad Park in Scottsdale
Old Pueblo Trolley
Verde Canyon Railroad
>Arkansas
Arkansas and Missouri Railroad
Eureka Springs and North Arkansas Railway
Fort Smith Trolley Museum
Metro Streetcar

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 16:11:32 No.1225152 Report

Quoted By: >>1225153 >>1225178

>>1225151
>California
Angels Flight
Billy Jones Wildcat Railroad, uses repurposed narrow gauge steam engines and is partly the inspiration for Walt Disney's theme park, Disneyland
California State Railroad Museum
California Western Railroad, also called the Skunk Train
Disneyland Railroad (three locomotives are historic)
Fillmore and Western Railway - short line used by Hollywood film industry.
Ghost Town & Calico Railroad in Knott's Berry Farm
Golden Gate Railroad Museum (no excursions listed)
Los Angeles Market Street Streetcar
Napa Valley Wine Train
Nevada County Narrow Gauge Railroad & Transportation Museum
Niles Canyon Railway
Orange Empire Railway Museum
Pacific Coast Railroad in Santa Margarita
Pacific Coast Railway, a former narrow-gauge system near San Luis Obispo
Pacific Southwest Railway Museum
Placerville & Sacramento Valley Railroad, oldest railroad west of the Mississippi[1]
Port of LA Waterfront Red Car, a rebuilt part of the original Pacific Electric Railway system (closed 2015)
Poway–Midland Railroad
Roaring Camp & Big Trees Narrow Gauge Railroad
Sacramento RiverTrain
Sacramento Southern Railroad
San Diego Trolley Silver Line
San Francisco Municipal Railway
E Embarcadero streetcar line
F Market & Wharves streetcar line
San Francisco cable car system
San Jose Steam Railroad Museum (proposed)
San Luis Obispo Railroad Museum
Santa Cruz, Big Trees and Pacific Railway
Sierra Railroad
Sierra Railway - Railtown 1897 State Historic Park
Sonoma TrainTown Railroad
Western Pacific Railroad Museum, formerly the Portola Railroad Museum
Western Railway Museum
Yosemite Mountain Sugar Pine Railroad
Yreka Western Railroad
>Colorado
Colorado Railroad Museum
Cripple Creek and Victor Narrow Gauge Railroad
Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad
Durango and Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad
Fort Collins trolley
Georgetown Loop Railroad
Leadville, Colorado and Southern Railroad (the South Park)
Manitou and Pike's Peak Railway (currently closed through 2018)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 16:14:04 No.1225153 Report

Quoted By: >>1225154 >>1225178

>>1225152
Platte Valley Trolley
Rio Grande Scenic Railroad
Royal Gorge Route Railroad
Ski Train
>Connecticut
Connecticut Trolley Museum
Danbury Railway Museum
Essex Steam Train operated by the Valley Railroad Company
Naugatuck Railroad and Railroad Museum of New England
Shore Line Trolley Museum
>Delaware
Wilmington and Western Railroad
>Florida
Florida Railroad Museum
The Royal Palm Railway Experience
Seminole Gulf Railway
Serengeti Railway at Busch Gardens Tampa
TECO Line Streetcar System
Walt Disney World Railroad (four locomotives are historic)
>Georgia
Agrirama Logging Train
Blue Ridge Scenic Railway
Chickamauga Train from Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum
River Street Streetcar
Roosevelt Railroad (defunct)
Roundhouse Railroad Museum
SAM Shortline Excursion Train
Six Flags Over Georgia Park Railroad
Southeastern Railway Museum
Stone Mountain Scenic Railroad
Tallulah Falls Railroad Museum
>Hawaii
See also: Heritage railways in Kauai
Grove Farm Plantation Museum Railroad
Hawaiian Railway
Kauai plantation railroad
Sugar Cane Train (closed in 2014, but will be revived in 2018)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 16:16:11 No.1225154 Report

Quoted By: >>1225155 >>1225178

>>1225153
>Idaho
Silverwood Theme Park
>Illinois
American Heritage Railroad
Fox River Trolley Museum
Galesburg Railroad Museum
Illinois Railway Museum
Monticello Railway Museum
Silver Creek & Stephenson Railroad
>Indiana
Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society (future)
Hesston Steam Museum
Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum
Indiana Railway Museum
Indiana Transportation Museum
National New York Central Railroad Museum
Whitewater Valley Railroad
>Iowa
Boone and Scenic Valley Railroad
Fourth Street Elevator
Midwest Central Railroad
Midwest Electric Railway
>Kansas
Abilene and Smoky Valley Railroad
Midland Railway
>Kentucky
Big South Fork Scenic Railway
Bluegrass Railroad and Museum
Kentucky Railway Museum

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 16:18:51 No.1225155 Report

Quoted By: >>1225156 >>1225178 >>1226822

>>1225154
>Louisiana
Canal Streetcar Line
Louisiana Steam Train Association
Old Hickory Railroad
Riverfront Streetcar Line
St. Charles Streetcar Line
>Maine
Belfast & Moosehead Lake Railway
Boothbay Railway Village
Downeast Scenic Railroad
Maine Narrow Gauge Railroad Museum
Sandy River and Rangeley Lakes Railroad
Seashore Trolley Museum
Wiscasset, Waterville and Farmington Railway
>Maryland
B&O Railroad Museum
Baltimore Streetcar Museum
National Capital Trolley Museum
Walkersville Southern Railroad
Western Maryland Scenic Railroad
>Massachusetts
Berkshire Scenic Railway Museum
Cape Cod Central Railroad
Edaville Railroad
Lowell National Historical Park Trolley Line
>Michigan
Coopersville and Marne Railway
The Henry Ford (track is on museum grounds)
Huckleberry Railroad
Lake Linden & Torch Lake Railroad (track is on museum grounds)
Little River Railroad
Michigan Transit Museum
Quincy and Torch Lake Cog Railway
Southern Michigan Railroad Society
Steam Railroading Institute
>Minnesota
Como-Harriet Streetcar Line
Excelsior Streetcar Line
Lake Superior and Mississippi Railroad
Minnesota Transportation Museum
North Shore Scenic Railroad
Osceola and St. Croix Valley Railway
>Missouri
Belton, Grandview and Kansas City Railroad
Branson Scenic Railway
Frisco Silver Dollar Line Steam Train
St. Louis, Iron Mountain and Southern Railway

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 16:20:53 No.1225156 Report

Quoted By: >>1225157 >>1225178

>>1225155
>Montana
Central Montana Rail, Inc.
>Nebraska
Fremont and Elkhorn Valley Railroad (suspended operations)
>Nevada
Nevada Northern Railway
Nevada State Railroad Museum
Nevada Southern Railroad Museum
Virginia and Truckee Railroad
>New Hampshire
Conway Scenic Railroad
Hobo Railroad
Mount Washington Cog Railway
Silver Lake Railroad
White Mountain Central Railroad
>New Jersey
Black River and Western Railroad
Cape May Seashore Lines
Delaware River Rail Excursions
New Jersey Museum of Transportation
Whippany Railway Museum
>New Mexico
Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 16:22:50 No.1225157 Report

Quoted By: >>1225158 >>1225178

>>1225156
>New York
Adirondack Scenic Railroad
Arcade and Attica Railroad
Catskill Mountain Railroad
Cooperstown and Charlotte Valley Railroad
Delaware and Ulster Railroad
Medina Railroad Museum
Railroad Museum of Long Island
Saratoga and North Creek Railway
Trolley Museum of New York
>North Carolina
Great Smoky Mountains Railroad
New Hope Valley Railway
North Carolina Transportation Museum
Tweetsie Railroad
>Ohio
Byesville Scenic Railway (Service was suspended in 2011.)
Cedar Point and Lake Erie Railroad
Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad
Hocking Valley Scenic Railway
Lake Shore Railway Association (Lorain and West Virginia Railway)[2]
Lebanon Mason Monroe Railroad
Ohio Central Railroad[disambiguation needed] (passenger service terminated)
Toledo, Lake Erie and Western Railway
Zanesville and Western Scenic Railroad
>Oklahoma
El Reno Trolley
Oklahoma Railway Museum
>Oregon
Astoria Riverfront Trolley
Eagle Cap Excursion Train
Mount Hood Railroad
Oregon Coast Scenic Railroad
Oregon Electric Railway Museum
Oregon Pacific Railroad
Oregon Rail Heritage Center
Sumpter Valley Railway
Willamette Shore Trolley

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 16:24:50 No.1225158 Report

Quoted By: >>1225160 >>1225178

>>1225157
>Pennsylvania
Allentown & Auburn Railroad
Bellefonte Historical Railroad
Colebrookdale Railroad
Duquesne Incline
East Broad Top Railroad (defunct, under restoration)
Horseshoe Curve Incline
Johnstown Inclined Plane
Kiski Junction Railroad
Lehigh Gorge Scenic Railway
Middletown and Hummelstown Railroad
Monongahela Incline
New Hope and Ivyland Railroad
Oil Creek and Titusville Railroad
Reading Blue Mountain and Northern Railroad
SEPTA Route 15
Steam Into History
Steamtown National Historic Site
Stewartstown Railroad
Strasburg Rail Road
Tioga Central Railroad
Wanamaker, Kempton and Southern Railroad
Wawa and Concordville Railroad
West Chester Railroad
>Rhode Island
Newport and Narragansett Bay Railroad
>South Carolina
Rockton, Rion and Western Railroad/South Carolina Railroad Museum/Rockton and Rion Railroad Historic District
>South Dakota
Black Hills Central Railroad
Prairie Village, Herman and Milwaukee Railroad
>Tennessee
Chattanooga Choo Choo Trolley
Dollywood Express
Lookout Mountain Incline Railway
MATA Trolley (Memphis)
Southern Appalachia Railway Museum
Tennessee Central Railway Museum
Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum
Three Rivers Rambler

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 16:27:34 No.1225160 Report

Quoted By: >>1225178 >>1225252

>>1225158
Texas
Austin Steam Train Association
Galveston Island Trolley
Grapevine Vintage Railroad
Jefferson and Cypress Bayou Railway
Longhorn and Western Railroad
McKinney Avenue Transit Authority
Rosenberg Railroad Museum
Six Flags & Texas Railroad
Texas Railroad Museum (proposed)
Texas State Railroad
>Utah
Heber Valley Railroad
Golden Spike National Historic Site (Promontory Summit, Utah)
>Vermont
Green Mountain Railroad
Steamtown, USA (moved to Scranton, Pennsylvania)
>Virginia
James River Rambler
>Washington
Anacortes Railway (Now a static display)
Chehalis–Centralia Railroad
Chelatchie Prairie Railroad
George Benson Waterfront Streetcar Line (closed 2005)
Issaquah Valley Trolley
Lake Whatcom Railway
Mt. Rainier Railroad and Logging Museum (formerly Mt. Rainier Scenic Railroad, 1980-2016)
Northern Pacific Railway Museum
Northwest Railway Museum
Pend Oreille Valley Railroad (ended excursion service in 2016)
Yakima Electric Railway Museum
>West Virginia
Cass Scenic Railroad State Park
Durbin and Greenbrier Valley Railroad
Potomac Eagle Scenic Railroad
>Wisconsin
East Troy Electric Railroad
Kenosha Streetcar
Kettle Moraine Scenic Railroad (defunct)
Lumberjack Steam Train
Mid-Continent Railway Museum
Osceola and St. Croix Valley Railway
Riverside and Great Northern Railway
Wisconsin Great Northern Railroad
>Wyoming
Wyoming Transportation Museum

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 18:02:54 No.1225178 Report

Quoted By:

>>1225151
>>1225152
>>1225153
>>1225154
>>1225155
>>1225156
>>1225157
>>1225158
>>1225160
God bless you anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 22:11:21 No.1225252 Report

Quoted By: >>1226293

>>1225160
>Virginia has only one
at least we have a pretty nice bike trail instead tho

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO dave-dieterthe-huntsville-times- (...).jpg, 167KiB, 1024x671

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:50:03 No.1226293 Report

Quoted By: >>1226503

>>1225252
Rails to Trails I presume?
I'm glad the North Alabama Railroad Museum bought their right of way outright from the old Louisville & Nashville Railroad. The track had already been removed, so the museum had to re lay seven miles of track to run on in the 70's, but the museum owns all their trackage and the grounds around it outright.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 00:04:18 No.1226503 Report

Quoted By:

>>1226293
afaik it predates RtT
not that the railroad should have stayed, objectively there was no reason for it to remain
just glad it closed as late as it did, so it didn't get developed

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO skytop lounge.jpg, 132KiB, 500x351

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 17:06:30 No.1226822 Report

Quoted By: >>1226892

>>1225155
Minnesoatan here: just gonna mention Friends of the 261, who run Milwaukee Road heritage cars behind a Milwaukee Road freight 4-8-4.

Also, not a steam engine, but definitely elegant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 22:58:08 No.1226892 Report

Quoted By:

>>1226822
>train lingerie

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO LV4623093OTUK.jpg, 802KiB, 1600x1200

Anonymous Sun 19 Aug 2018 22:40:58 No.1227348 Report

Quoted By: >>1227382

>>1215116
false

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Aug 2018 23:32:31 No.1227382 Report

Quoted By:

>>1227348
just looks rickety-crickety with those wheels

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