The finding by a judge in a New York civil case that Donald Trump committed fraud in valuing his real estate properties undermined the narrative of the business career that launched him in politics.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/27/us/politics/trump-fraud-ruling.html Nearly every aspect of Donald J. Trump’s life and career has been under scrutiny from the justice system over the past several years, leaving him under criminal indictment in four jurisdictions and being held to account in a civil case for what a jury found to be sexual abuse that he committed decades ago.
But a ruling on Tuesday by a New York State judge that Mr. Trump had committed fraud by inflating the value of his real estate holdings went to the heart of the identity that made him a national figure and launched his political career.
By effectively branding him a cheat, the decision in the civil proceeding by Justice Arthur F. Engoron undermined Mr. Trump’s relentlessly promoted narrative of himself as a master of the business world, the persona that he used to enmesh himself in the fabric of popular culture and that eventually give him the stature and resources to reach the White House.
The ruling was the latest remarkable development to test the resilience of Mr. Trump’s appeal as he seeks to win election again despite the weight of evidence against him in cases spanning his years as a New York developer, his 2016 campaign, his efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss and his handling of national security secrets after leaving office.
Anonymous
The federal case accusing him of plotting to retain power despite his defeat at the polls three years ago paints him as a threat to democracy, as does a similar prosecution in Georgia. The classified documents case portrays him as willing to obstruct justice to cover up a reckless disregard for the laws that govern the handling of such documents. A New York prosecution stemming from hush-money payments to a porn star in the closing stages of the 2016 election sets out evidence of the kind of political skulduggery he professes to want to eradicate from Washington. So far none of those cases has discernibly hurt Mr. Trump’s campaign in the race for the Republican presidential nomination, which polls suggest he is leading by large margins. In fact, polls show the indictments have consolidated his support among Republicans. The prosecutions have helped his fund-raising. Whether the effect of Justice Engoron’s ruling is any different remains to be seen. But his finding imperils both Mr. Trump’s public image and his business empire. The former president now faces not only the prospect of having to pay $250 million in damages, but he could also lose properties like Trump Tower that are inextricably linked to his brand. Mr. Trump’s lawyer in the case, Christopher M. Kise, called the ruling “outrageous” and said the decision would be appealed. He called it “completely disconnected from the facts and governing law.” “The decision seeks to nationalize one of the most successful corporate empires in the United States and seize control of private property all while acknowledging there is zero evidence of any default, breach, late payment or any complaint of harm,” Mr. Kise said. Mr. Trump, in a lengthy post on his social media site, called the statements in the ruling about fraud “ridiculous and untrue,” and said the decision was a political attack against him in the midst of the presidential campaign.
Anonymous
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In all of Mr. Trump’s recent legal travails, his typical tactics for self-preservation have largely failed him. When cornered, Mr. Trump has traditionally sought to bluster his way out of trouble, falling back on exaggerations or outright lies to escape. These methods have served him well in the business and political arenas, where there is often little price to pay for bending the truth and where voters tend not to distinguish between gradations of prevarications. Those methods, though, have been much less effective so far in the courts, which operate according to strict standards of veracity and staid and sober rules. In straightforward terms, Justice Engoron punctured Mr. Trump’s bubble of protective falsehoods about the way he conducted his business. “In defendants’ world,” Justice Engoron wrote, “rent-regulated apartments are the same as unregulated apartments; restricted land is worth the same as unrestricted land; restrictions can evaporate into thin air.” “That is a fantasy world,” the judge went on, “not the real world.” Mr. Trump’s other weapon of choice — bullying his adversaries — has not fared much better in the courts. This month, federal prosecutors asked the judge overseeing his federal election interference case to impose a gag order on him, citing his “near daily” social media attacks on people involved in the proceeding and the threats they were generating. Mr. Trump blew past an early warning from the judge in that case, Tanya S. Chutkan, to be mindful about what he said concerning the witnesses, prosecutors and potential jurors in the case. But if he thought he could simply muscle through the judge’s admonition, prosecutors called his bluff. Now Mr. Trump has placed himself on what could be a collision course with the judge that could result in his public statements being curbed in the middle of his presidential campaign.
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Mr. Trump is being constrained by the very system he often uses to try to stymie opposition: the courts. In the last two years, Mr. Trump has filed a blizzard of legal actions against news networks, political critics and even the Pulitzer Prize committee. Several of those cases have been dismissed. But Justice Engoron’s decision hinted at a trait that has longed defined Mr. Trump’s personality and approach to doing business. He has always sought to create his own reality, often getting away with it — up to a point. In a 2006 lawsuit that Mr. Trump filed against the journalist Timothy O’Brien, the author of the book “TrumpNation: The Art of Being The Donald,” which estimated that Mr. Trump’s net worth was no greater than $250 million, the future president sat for a deposition and made a surprising statement about how he calculates the value of his holdings. “My net worth fluctuates, and it goes up and down with the markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings, but I try,” Mr. Trump said. A judge ultimately dismissed his suit.
theonesoul dontputapriceonitsself
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>>1220122 Mammom worshipers like tRump see a person's value in $.
A homeless person = 0
Bezos = 100 + BILLIONS
tRump =Gazillions!
Anonymous
>>1220124 >So far none of those cases has discernibly hurt Mr. Trump’s campaign in the race for the Republican presidential nomination, which polls suggest he is leading by large margins. In fact, polls show the indictments have consolidated his support among Republicans. The prosecutions have helped his fund-raising. inb4 more prosecutions
Anonymous
There after you too, he's just in the way.
Anonymous
>>1220363 >>1220364 So weird to defend a career criminal as some sort of loyalty test. Fascists love to make you accept their corruption as necessary.
Anonymous
>>1220379 >calling Trump a fascist because he wants to stop progressive fascism Not going to work. Try a different route.
Anonymous
>>1220380 No Trump is a fascist because he openly says only his way of life is correct and all other ways of life should be wiped out. This is fascism.
You definition of asking you to accept other people way of lie as “fascism” is just wrong by definition, you can hate progressive policies or liberal ideology but calling it fascist to ask you to accept others is just false by definition,
Anonymous
>>1220380 Spamming this nonsense just reminds us you have an agenda
Anonymous
>>1220383 >No Trump is a fascist because he openly says only his way of life is correct and all other ways of life should be wiped out. This is fascism. You've just described modern day liberalism.
Anonymous
>>1220380 I know that the entire conservative strategy is to accuse the left of the things you are guilty of:
Actually you’re the bigot for telling me accept gay and trans peopler
Actually your the fascist for telling me to accept other races as equal to whites
Actually you’re the fascist for telling me I have to accept other peoples way of life in this society.
Always call liberals the thing you are to muddy the waters.
Anonymous
>>1220388 Tell what liberals want to wipe out from your way of life?
Anonymous
btw do you guys really believe trump and biden both are planted by kikes?
Anonymous
>>1220391 Ideological, bodily, and financial autonomy.
Anonymous
>>1220399 Asking you to accept others has taken away your bodily autonomy?
Asking you to accept other that other people live by different ideology's takes away your ideological autonomy?
And then the last one… are you talking about inflation? Wtf do you mean, you think liberal ideology wants you to be poorer? Unless you are a billionaire business owner, in that case then yes, you should be poorer.
No one needs a yacht but everyone needs a home.
Can you be more specific please.
Anonymous
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>>1220396 No one from here actually believes that, but the visiting thinktank shills do.
Anonymous
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>>1220383 >>1220384 >>1220389 How many speech crackdowns have you advocated for today, comrades?
Anonymous
>>1220380 >Trump wants to do anything other than have his ego stroked He's pathetic, but you are even more so for falling for the persona he's selling you. Cattle, incapable of any original thought of any kind. All of your opinions are created by commentators who post videos of themselves to the internet.
Anonymous
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>>1220420 >but you are even more so for falling for the persona he's selling you Explain how you aren't also falling for this persona, spending every day being angry about him
Anonymous
>>1220402 >Can you be more specific please. Sure. Since Covid began, liberals worldwide have:
-illegally mandated forced injections of experimental mrna technology
-coerced social media platforms to silence and censor conscientious objectors
-seized the bank accounts of peaceful protestors
-placed non-violent dissidents in concentration camps for refusing forced experimental mrna injections
-promoted the denial of health care to people who refused forced experimental mrna injections
-lied to the public about the actual data which predicated all of the above
etc
Anonymous
>>1220429 So he's just a schizo
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>>1220379 If he's truly corrupt, then he's a housecat compared to the lions and tigers in the democrat party.
Anonymous
>>1220461 The rebuttal is that none of the things he's claiming happened in reality. Its all pure delusion.
Anonymous
>>1220384 >exposing how progressives are mad someone is busting up their fascist constructs and downsizing the federal government is an agenda So be it
Anonymous
>>1220485 you're not a muckraker, you're a low iq /news/ regular
Anonymous
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>>1220389 >I know that the entire conservative strategy is to accuse the left of the things you are guilty of: Yeah of course. A conservative can't even tell you what the word fascist means, anon. They're like children. They know its bad when you call someone a fascist so they repeat what they hear on the television.
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>>1220486 >leftwing retard loses argument >ad hominen non argument intensifies Leftwing retards always do this after they lose every argument on this board
Anonymous
>>1220490 you're also highly cringe
Anonymous
>>1220490 Different poster, the earlier one was me, but again, this entire circle jerk started with you (I assume) saying that liberals lose every arguement, then demanded citations for common know information, then ignored those links and spouted crazy conspiracy shit about concentration camps.
So yea I guess I am a loser for wasting my time trying to show you a single moment of good faith conversation.
Anonymous
>>1220492 >then demanded citations for common know information, then ignored those links and spouted crazy conspiracy shit Your citations were credibly shot down
>about concentration camps. This never happened
>So yea I guess I am a loser for wasting my time trying to show you a single moment of good faith conversation. You were asked to justify your unhinged conspiracy theories, you whined about having to justify it, and then when you did they got credibly refuted. That's a skill issue.
>>1220491 Not an argument
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>>1220494 i don't argue with cringe people
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>>1220502 >austrofascism is liberalism you are fucking retarded
Anonymous
>>1220502 None of them happened. You're addicted to this weird motte and bailey larp where you make a huge claim and when we read the sources literally every fact you've stated is massively mischaracterized or just altogether fabricated. None of what you've said is true. Conservative conspiracy propaganda has turned your brain to mush.
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>>1220122 Good read. Not quite as satisfying as when the OP image is an anime girl but still pretty good.
Anonymous
>>1220503 the Australian concentration camps were enacted by liberal PM Scott Morrison
>>1220504 and yet you can't dispute any of it. keep denying reality
Anonymous
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>>1220418 None. How many terms of service made you seethe today?
Anonymous
>>1220507 >and yet you can't dispute any of it I disputed every last claim. None of it happened and you can't provide any evidence it did.
Anonymous
>>1220573 You didn't dispute any of it and I already provided evidence.
Anonymous
>>1220574 >You didn't dispute any of it I disputed all of it. You can't provide any evidence of your claims.
>I already provided evidence. You didn't. None of the sources you cited contained any evidence of your claim. You do this weird motte and bailey thing where every claim you make is a wild, wild mischaracterization of what actually happened. For example, you claimed there were "forced" vaccination of "experimental mRNA vaccines". The link you provided was a source about the Biden administration mandating vaccines for federal workers. Nowhere in the article did it ever mention anybody being forced to get a vaccine. In fact, nobody in the U.S. was "forced" to get a vaccine. Additionally, mRNA technology has been around since the 80's. Its not even remotely experimental. You lied about people being "forced" to take the vaccine and misrepresented mRNA vaccines as experimental when they're absolutely not. The rest of your claims follow the same pattern. You make a huge accusation then when I actually read your source it turns out you misrepresented every single fact. Rinse and repeat.
Anonymous
>>1220577 >In fact, nobody in the U.S. was "forced" to get a vaccine. Define "forced".
Anonymous
>>1220577 Give me your car or lose your job and livelihood and house and family. But I'm not forcing you, teeheeheeheehee.
Anonymous
>>1220586 >Define "forced". The dictionary definition of forced. The way anyone familiar with the English language would interpret it. The way anon is using "forced" is incoherent. If my job says "get a piss test or you're fired" and I go to get the test I wasn't FORCED to get a piss test. I could've quit. I could've sued. In the case of the vaccine there was allowances for medical and religious exemptions. Nobody was forced to take a vaccine. Anon is purposefully misusing the word to emotionally prime an argument that he knows isn't convincing enough on its merits.
Anonymous
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>>1220592 Except it wasnt one job, it was all jobs... at the command of the federal government. Anyway, pay up, give me your car.
Anonymous
>>1220587 Very dogshit comparison. You own your car. You don't own your job. You're not entitled to employment regardless of requirements. Nobody was forced to get the vaccine.
Anonymous
>>1220596 Okay, then give me your car OR you are fired from this job and legally unemployable. You have a choice in your argument.
Anonymous
>>1220598 Every US state is an at will employment state. You should be furious at this. Employers make decisions and barrier access to emoloyment. You found this out for the first time today.
Anonymous
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>>1220122 New York Times is no longer a valid news source at this point.
Anonymous
>>1220592 >If my job says "get a piss test or you're fired" and I go to get the test I wasn't FORCED to get a piss test. That's called extortion, bootlicker.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>1220592 >The dictionary definition of forced. So, imposed by coercion. The government imposing mandate by threat of unemployment is absolutely imposition by coercion. The vaccine was 100% forced upon people.
Anonymous
>>1220610 That's fine. Employers imposing things and coercing things isn't wrong or illegal. I'm sorry you learned this for the first time today. How have you never had to piss for a job? Are you unemployed or just a min wage low skill worker?
Anonymous
>>1220612 According to the Supreme Court, it was illegal, actually. Anything else you want to get wrong?
Anonymous
>>1220614 >According to the Supreme Court, it was illegal, actually. Source?
Anonymous
>>1220615 You would ignore it anyway even if offered. Reprisal is the only thing on the table, and people are done explaining anything to you and your ilk.
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>>1220618 Second sentence
>But at the same time, the court upheld a regulation issued by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services that mandates vaccines for almost all employees at hospitals, nursing homes and other health care providers that receive federal funds. Anonymous
Anonymous
>>1220620 >>1220615 >>According to the Supreme Court, it was illegal >>1220619 >>But at the same time, the court upheld a regulation issued by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services that mandates vaccines for almost all employees at hospitals, nursing homes and other health care providers that receive federal funds. Anonymous
>>1220621 Two separate regulations. One applied to employers employing over 100 employees (illegal). One applied to Healthcare workers (upheld). Anything else?
Anonymous
>>1220622 >Two separate regulations. One applied to employers employing over 100 employees (illegal). One applied to Healthcare workers (upheld Correct
>Anything else? Nope. Glad we agree you are wrong. Thanks for seeing eye to eye on this issue.
Anonymous
>>1220625 >cope I accept your concession.
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>>1220639 Whatever helps you cope with the knowledge of getting btfo. :)
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Anonymous
>>1220644 I've noticed that the resident libtard schizos throw some really petty tantrums when they have to argue instead of just being blindly agreed with.
Anonymous
>>1220711 They're not sending their best
Anonymous
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>>1220715 That's been repeatedly debubked