/out/ - Outdoors » Thread #2339351

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Land Navigation

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:15:16 No.2339351 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>2339357 >>2339360 >>2339372 >>2339396 >>2339548 >>2340271 >>2340652 >>2341574 >>2346766 >>2348015 >>2348021

Land nav seems to be a completely underappreciated skill in the age of Google Maps and GPS. Does anyone still bother with maps and compasses outside of the military and the Boy Scouts?

Also, how viable would it be to load USGS topo maps onto a Kindle Paperwhite in addition to/instead of using printed maps?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:19:51 No.2339357 Report

Quoted By: >>2340146 >>2341034

>>2339351
>Does anyone still bother with maps and compasses outside of the military and the Boy Scouts?
>Also, how viable would it be to load USGS topo maps onto a Kindle
Nice bait OP, lets see how many bites you get

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:28:03 No.2339360 Report

Quoted By: >>2339362 >>2339367 >>2344378 >>2345089 >>2345096 >>2346939

>>2339351
i tried learning from youtube but the true north calibration bullshit fucks it up for my dumb brain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:34:07 No.2339362 Report

Quoted By: >>2339376

>>2339360
unless the difference in your location is significant you don't even have to care. I know it's 4 degrees here and it's something I just ignore

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:38:22 No.2339367 Report

Quoted By: >>2339376

>>2339360
there's nothing that complicated to it, it's a literal matter of addition and subtraction based on a map that tells you how much to add or take away. which part of that fucks it up for you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:42:25 No.2339372 Report

Quoted By: >>2339400

>>2339351
>Does anyone still bother with maps and compasses outside of the military and the Boy Scouts?
I'm not even sure if you are misinformed or just trolling, but yes, a lot of people use paper maps still, they have massive advantages sometimes.
>Also, how viable would it be to load USGS topo maps onto a Kindle Paperwhite in addition to/instead of using printed maps?
No idea, idk what kind of display those have, but you can have a scan of the map on anything with decent enough color lcd/oled, you can even get some gps units which will allow you to locate the map scan in the reference grid and use it in conjunction with gps, pretty awesome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:44:02 No.2339376 Report

Quoted By: >>2339382 >>2340152 >>2340559

>>2339362
double digits for me

>>2339367
i just dont like that extra step, would be a lot simpler not having to think about it when looking at the compass.
Id get it eventually if i tried, but its made map nav something annoying to learn rather than something i was eager about

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:48:45 No.2339382 Report

Quoted By: >>2339845

>>2339376
>would be a lot simpler not having to think about it when looking at the compass
IIRC there are compasses that are adjustable, you check the declination for the area, literally set your mag needle accordingly and go from there as if there's no such issue. but that sucks if you travel decent distances, as those declinations are pretty unpredictable. or just buy one you can take apart and just do it the bruteforce way :)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:53:29 No.2339392 Report

Quoted By: >>2339399 >>2339720 >>2340351

Doesn't everyone learn it in school or something?
I have been able to read a map for as long as I can remember and I have only ever hiked with a paper map and a compass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:55:42 No.2339396 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339351
My only interaction with maps outside of the military is planning areas with flat ground for tent camping. A lot of trails here are through narrow and steep valleys. Also potential water sources in the event I contract down syndrome and somehow have an emergency on a 12 mile trail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:58:53 No.2339399 Report

Quoted By: >>2339519

>>2339392
>I have been able to read a map
Great, thats already something like 25% of the topic called "land navigation"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 17:59:00 No.2339400 Report

Quoted By: >>2339410

>>2339372
>idk what kind of display those have, but you can have a scan of the map on anything with decent enough color lcd/oled
It's just a black and white e-ink display, but supposedly they have a battery life of several weeks to months if you're not using them constantly. Allegedly they're waterproof too. I'd like to believe that they'd be a viable option for having an entire state's worth of USGS topo maps on hand without having to print out thousands of paper copies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 18:00:59 No.2339401 Report

Quoted By: >>2339409 >>2339502 >>2340154

I just download maps ahead of time onto my phone with Alltrails Pro.

A lot easier than hauling paper let alone laminated maps or having to triangulate your position with landmarks.

Plus if you decide to change your mind or do something else as well mid-route you can download additional maps on your phone and paper maps don't offer that flexibility.

Being able to see your position + track in real time on your phone blows any other system out of the water. Just bring a backup brick for your phone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 18:06:50 No.2339409 Report

Quoted By: >>2339421 >>2340158 >>2353210

>>2339401
And what if you're in an area where you don't have data or your phone dies?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 18:07:20 No.2339410 Report

Quoted By: >>2339428

>>2339400
i do not believe e-ink displays are suitable for standard maps (i guess it would be cool for a map made just with lines and pictograms), a lot of the info relies on colored in areas so you do need that color display. seriously tho, even with frequent checking up with the map, chances of you actually staring at the map for more than an hour a day are absurdly low, i think any decent device and a power pack will do the trick for you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 18:12:24 No.2339421 Report

Quoted By: >>2339464 >>2340158

>>2339409
I have a battery backup for my phone so that's never happened. In fact I have 2 bricks with me and I make sure they are charged before I leave for anything major.

>if you don't have data

you can make custom maps on alltrails that let you download pretty large areas at a time for that purpose so I can explore a general area

I have everywhere I hike downloaded to google maps as well and that wouldn't help topographically but I could still find the car if it came to it using that. Also sometimes hikes are listed on Google Maps and that works fine.

You don't NEED data to look at the maps - they are downloaded ahead of time. Your phone has a GPS chip and it can display your current position on a pre-downloaded map. You absolutely do not need ANY cell phone reception to navigate with a phone and usually I turn mine to airplane mode so the location locks more easily + it saves battery.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 18:16:38 No.2339428 Report

Quoted By: >>2339430 >>2339472 >>2342687

>>2339410
I don't know that color really makes a difference with the USGS topo maps. This map in color isn't all that different in greyscale.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 18:17:17 No.2339430 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339428

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 18:48:30 No.2339464 Report

Quoted By: >>2339498

>>2339421
>I have a battery backup for my phone so that's never happened. In fact I have 2 bricks with me and I make sure they are charged before I leave for anything major.
And how many days will your phone and two bricks last?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 18:54:40 No.2339472 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339428
at least for me losing the greens make a fair bit of difference, when you go somewhere unfamiliar it's good to know what kind of vegeration you are dealing with, but that might not be an issue for everyone, you would have to try how well that e-ink displays those maps, maybe even get back to the thread with the results.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 19:15:27 No.2339498 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339464
About 8-9 assuming I used it pretty consistently. I also carry a gps-enabled rescue beacon to summon help in an emergency. The brick has 40,000 mAH and I think most phone batteries are more like 2-3,000 mAH

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 19:20:38 No.2339502 Report

Quoted By: >>2339506 >>2339842 >>2339849

>>2339401
I've found my phone GPS to be very unreliable when in thick bush or when it's overcast. Sometimes it points you in the completely wrong direction and sometimes it just doesn't update. This is in Northern Ontario, so maybe it's not so bad if you only go /out/ where there are phone towers near by that can assist your GPS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 19:22:52 No.2339506 Report

Quoted By: >>2339508 >>2339841

>>2339502
Turn your phone to airplane mode. Also, satellite coverage may be weird at your lattitude - not sure how that works actually.

But airplane mode is definitely the most important thing to do - it means your phone determines position just from the gps chip - not trying to use the data radio antenna as well.

I find it usually locks after a few seconds.

But the issue is NOT PHONE TOWERS YOU DO NOT NEED PHONE TOWERS FOR GPS ON A PHONE TO WORK

I just REALLY want to correct this misconception - your gps works fine on a modern smartphone without ANY CELLULAR DATA SIGNAL AT ALL.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 19:23:53 No.2339508 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339506
To add on, you won't be able to load MAPS for background layers (that aren't already saved on your phone), but assuming you have a background map saved beforehand - it should work fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 19:34:48 No.2339519 Report

Quoted By: >>2339631

>>2339399
what's the other 75% consist of according to you?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 20:07:03 No.2339548 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339351
https://youtube.com/watch?v=rkouDgxnj1Y

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 21:49:12 No.2339631 Report

Quoted By: >>2340062

>>2339519
>what's the other 75% consist of according to you?
landmark navigation, proper orienting, shooting azimuths, calcumating distances off the map, executing established routes by compass and map, calcumating travel times and breaking up your route into manageable stages, nighttime or low visibility nagivation... there's quite a lot of that, but the ability to read a map is a good start.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2022 23:30:06 No.2339720 Report

Quoted By: >>2340064

>>2339392
School? Learning an actually useful skill in school? Bait.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 02:07:28 No.2339841 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339506
Pretty much all cellphones do this occasionally. It has a little bit to do with the quality of the hardware and more to do with the power management features in the OS. Sometimes it will get a bad fix and then hold onto it for a while. You notice it more often when you don't have cell signal or any wifi APs in range since it uses those to help track your location.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 02:08:53 No.2339842 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339502
Pretty much all cellphones do this occasionally. It has a little bit to do with the quality of the hardware and more to do with the power management features in the OS. Sometimes it will get a bad fix and then hold onto it for a while. You notice it more often when you don't have cell signal or any wifi APs in range since it uses those to help track your location.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 02:12:17 No.2339845 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339382
Does anyone have suggestions for a compass with adjustable declination? Sounds pretty handy desu.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 02:16:35 No.2339849 Report

Quoted By: >>2339866 >>2340164

>>2339502
Is the GPS hardware in a phone much different than the GPS hardware in a dedicated device? Does anyone have specs on what hardware Android and iPhones are using?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 02:37:39 No.2339866 Report

Quoted By: >>2340065

>>2339849
I don't have any specs, it's difficult to find specs even for the dedicated GPS devices. I can say that in the outdoors you'll *typically* see better performance on a dedicated GPS. In the city you'll often see better performance on a phone. However if you're relying on a device for mapping (which I don't recommend) then the low resolution and slow speed of a dedicated device will be a problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 11:02:53 No.2340062 Report

Quoted By: >>2340073

>>2339631
>a good start
I just said I have never hiked with anything but a map and a compass jesus christ. Apparently you didn't read the rest of my post, or just didn't understand it, but that's okay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 11:06:12 No.2340064 Report

Quoted By: >>2340401

>>2339720
I tried my hardest to think when was the first instance somebody ever taught me this, but I can't remember. I feel like this entire thing was handled in school exercise class for like 3 times over the course of my school time.
You did have orienteering in school right?
The most recent time where they taught me this again was in the army actually.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 11:14:42 No.2340065 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339866
>In the city you'll often see better performance on a phone.
Yeah but this doesn’t have anything to do with the GPS receiver in a phone. It’s because of assisted gps, ie a phone connecting to cell towers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 11:26:17 No.2340073 Report

Quoted By: >>2340141 >>2340524

>>2340062
Apparently you think i'm naive enough to assume just because you carry an item you have any idea of the more advanced uses of it. No, not really, and in my experience people bragging about their skills usually have little of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 13:33:47 No.2340141 Report

Quoted By: >>2340199 >>2340205

>>2340073
So now you're calling me a liar for saying I can do what the thread suggests?
Well this escalated quickly. Having conversations on this board is usually quite difficult, but this is something else entirely.
Also bragging? Did I offend you somehow or something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 13:37:16 No.2340146 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339357
>Anime
>says something overtly retarded
ah, tell us more about how awesome your iphone is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 13:47:34 No.2340152 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339376
Use the bezel adjustment to account for the declination constant. I'm so far north it's 17 degrees. Like anything else if you do it enough it just becomes habit though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 13:50:36 No.2340154 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339401
>I live in a metropolis and never hike mountains outside of europe or the east coast us.
>1,000 foot elevation gain in 8 miles is hard!!!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 13:52:08 No.2340158 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339409
Don't feed the retard. He doesn't know how to read a map, or anything about navigation outside using a phone.
>>2339421
where do you hike? Answer this simple question or shut the fuck up and admit to being a city fag who only ever trail hikes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 14:01:31 No.2340164 Report

Quoted By: >>2340202

>>2339849
Yes. Cellphones use the cellphone network to augment the GPS when in cell range. There is a MAJOR variance between GPS performance on various types of cellphones when using GPS only.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 14:40:05 No.2340199 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340141
His original reply to you was dumb, but your reply to his was snarky

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 14:42:19 No.2340202 Report

Quoted By: >>2340210

>>2340164
That has nothing to do with the GPS receiver hardware.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 14:49:10 No.2340205 Report

Quoted By: >>2340215 >>2340260

>>2340141
>So now you're calling me a liar for saying I can do what the thread suggests?
Everything is larp or larping larp, and if you make odd claims you are a prime suspect of being a larper
>Also bragging? Did I offend you somehow or something?
No, the day i get offended by someone on the internet i will personally chop my network cable off
But i will give you a rundown of why i am sceptical of your claims
>Doesn't everyone learn it in school or something?
Fuck no, not sure where did you go to school but map reading and orienteering is in no way part of any normal school cuckricullum, i'm old enough to still have a course called "defense education" in school, it covered those things and many more but only because it was a hand me down from the commie times (and comming back from what i heard due to the national freakout over russia proving it's still russia)
>I have been able to read a map for as long as I can remember
that i actually can believe, it's not a huge claim and i can go with that
>and I have only ever hiked with a paper map and a compass.
that is the claim i take my issue with, the first time i was introduced to the field use of a "serious grade" GPS unit i was like "that is way too cool not to make use of" and that is my opinion to this day, and given the fact you can have a good gps app on your phone (provided a decent gpu receiver in the phone) for next to nothing or even free poses the question "why would anyone do that for any other reason than occasional field exercise to not lose the skill?" and the logical ansers is "no one would" so when i see "i only used map and compass" that means that either the person saying that is a mega fudd, in which case you are a damned unicorn on 4chan or just bragging for the sake of bragging. Paper map and basic nav tools are both an awesome backup and a lifesaver sometimes but for the last decade i never met or even heard about anyone who would use exclusively that for navigation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 14:57:26 No.2340210 Report

Quoted By: >>2340227 >>2340234

>>2340202
>All cellphones use the same GPS receiver bro'
>Receiver hardware has nothing to do with location accuracy and speed of signal acquisition
Ah, an unabashed retard I see.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:00:49 No.2340215 Report

Quoted By: >>2340229

>>2340205
>paper maps are the backup
lol no.
>I've never met anyone that bla bla bla
because you're clearly a shut in retard that lives in a huge city and only ever trail hike on massively trafficked trails.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:16:48 No.2340227 Report

Quoted By: >>2340234 >>2340240

>>2340210
>Cellphones use the cellphone network
What does this have to do with GPS receiver hardware?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:18:49 No.2340229 Report

Quoted By: >>2340234 >>2340254

>>2340215
>lol no.
you have never done that IRL, have you?
>because you're clearly a shut in retard that lives in a huge city and only ever trail hike on massively trafficked trails.
oh tell me more about MY life style o wise one, i can't wait

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:24:04 No.2340234 Report

Quoted By: >>2340244

>>2340210
>>2340227
If you spergs want to get precise, A-GPS refers to an integration that involves both the GPS receiver and the cell network:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS
However there is also another layer of position estimation and power management where the phone uses other sensors to guess the location, decide when it's moving, and decide when to power on the GPS receiver. Arguable this part is the source of most oddities when you're out of range of the cell network and you're going to see similar behavior with pretty much all cell phones.
>>2340229
The "learn to read a map" guy is just farming (you)s.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:28:39 No.2340240 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340227
I said two different things unabashed retard (you're confirming that moniker) but let me explain it painful detail because clearly you have problems with the reading comprehension department.
1) Cellphones augment satellite GPS with tower signals unless configured to use GPS stand alone only. When a cellphone is using augmented data provided by cell-towers it is MORE accurate and FASTER than 99% of GPS only devices.
2) Not all cellphones have the same quality of GPS hardware. Some low quality GPS hardware (when the cellphone isn't using cellphone tower location augmentation) can take a long time to give positional data and when it does that positional data has a wide margin of error.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:33:28 No.2340244 Report

Quoted By: >>2340251

>>2340234
I'm talking specifically about the GPS antenna hardware. Not all cellphones have the same GPS receivers--some of them are utter trash and some of them are pretty good.

I'm specifically addressing gps only mode.

Jesus fucking Christ you idiots suck corporate cellphone cartel cocks so hard you can hear the whooshing from the ionosphere.

learn to read a map.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:39:13 No.2340251 Report

Quoted By: >>2340255

>>2340244
>>2340244
>>2340244
>>2340244
>>2340244
Based (you) farmer, have a couple extra on me. Have you ever found any published specifications on receiver sensitivity, noise floor, etc?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:41:06 No.2340254 Report

Quoted By: >>2340258

>>2340229
>won't tell me where he /out/s
cool story retard.
I've been on back country in, WA, California, Montana, Colorado, Idaho, Portugal, Korea, Afghanistan, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, and Switzerland.

Keep being retarded though city fag.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:43:40 No.2340255 Report

Quoted By: >>2340257

>>2340251
>Got a source for that REEEE
>AllLLl CELLphonE REceivers are teh SAAAAAME REEEE
>Tell me about Global foundries, the silicon lottery, and vapor disposition
you can't even the basics correct retard.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:46:43 No.2340257 Report

Quoted By: >>2340261

>>2340255
kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:47:02 No.2340258 Report

Quoted By: >>2340261

>>2340254
I have nothing to prove to anyone, least some keyboard warrior like you, seethe more maybe you will get something from it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:55:10 No.2340260 Report

Quoted By: >>2340270

>>2340205
Huh. I just kind of keep my phone in my backpack and most of the time it's shut off to save battery. Anything with a battery and a screen is nothing but a headache really. I don't see why'd I need any extra equipment, because at least to me keeping track of where you're going on a map is really fucking easy.
I just think just think it's very practical this way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 15:56:23 No.2340261 Report

Quoted By: >>2340268 >>2340270

>>2340257
>>2340258
and just like that the retards are cope posting after getting blasted by reality.

Keep sucking that cellphone cartel cock.

GNSS receiver types--look em up and get back to me when you feel bad about being obviously ignorant.

...that is if you could comprehend technical specifications or field test results, which is clearly beyond both of you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:08:33 No.2340268 Report

Quoted By: >>2340274

>>2340261
>GNSS receiver types
What does this mean? I though GNSS was the network that’s outside of the GPS system (specifically Galileo and Glonass, but maybe the others as well).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:09:39 No.2340270 Report

Quoted By: >>2340274 >>2340293

>>2340260
>Anything with a battery and a screen is nothing but a headache really. I don't see why'd I need any extra equipment,
Battery life is a bitch, i will agree on that (with mong sized battery and some OS tweeks i can squeeze out 2 days of use with GPS), and lugging either a hefty power bank or some charging panel is a bit of a hustle (still looking for something even more reliable than that), but i take that over actually handling a paper map when i need to check the routing, quick look as the distraction brick and move along. I do keep a paper map as a backup tho. One scenario where i will default to compass is in the forests, both for making sure i am still going the direction i intended and cause i don't enjoy the "you are somewhere in this 1km circle" situation with denser trees.

>>2340261
>and just like that the retards are cope posting after getting blasted by reality.
lol, your rage is delightfully amusing, i can literally imagine a vein on your forehead just waiting to pop

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:11:04 No.2340271 Report

Quoted By: >>2340275

>>2339351
I tried to, recently got maps from local mountain. They arnt in mgrs, topo is shit, tons of useless anecdotal markings but trail markers are pretty great.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:13:23 No.2340272 Report

Quoted By:

Literally 8 seconds of google
>The device and the location are statistically significant contributing factors to the variation in the measurements in terms of accuracy and precision

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7876317/figures#figures

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:15:41 No.2340274 Report

Quoted By: >>2340281

>>2340268
>unironically admits to not even knowing the basics
>>2340270
>Cope x 10
tell me again how all cellphone GPS receivers are created equal looollslsososllsosl
Yes, I'm losing my shit--laughing at how retarded you sound and your total lack of self awareness

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:16:00 No.2340275 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340271
>I tried to, recently got maps from local mountain. They arnt in mgrs, topo is shit, tons of useless anecdotal markings but trail markers are pretty great.
Get topographic maps from whatever institution is doing land surveys where you live, they are usually super nice for those things. At least on those used here you get a shitload of useful info for trekking, including wet or boggy areas and types of forests you will be dealing with, topo is usually super clear too on those.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:18:44 No.2340281 Report

Quoted By: >>2340301

>>2340274
>tell me again how all cellphone GPS receivers are created equal looollslsososllsosl
never said that
>Yes, I'm losing my shit
i can see that and it amuses me greatly, but chill out a bit, i will have one less fool to laugh at if you suffer a stroke

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:37:54 No.2340293 Report

Quoted By: >>2340300 >>2340306 >>2345096

>>2340270
>i can squeeze out 2 days of use with GPS
>lugging either a hefty power bank or some charging panel is a bit of a hustle
You say all of this and still consider it unbeliveable why someone would rather just use the map that even you are carrying anyway?
Imagine getting to skip all this bullshit.
To me it seems you're just someone who is hypnotized by shiny new gadgets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:48:26 No.2340300 Report

Quoted By: >>2340306 >>2340332

>>2340293
>To me it seems you're just someone who is hypnotized by shiny new gadgets.
Nah, i have it because it's difficult to live a normal life without one these days (tried being smartphone free for a year or so, it sucked more than expected) and since i will take the phone with me anyway i can get all the advantage out of it i can (in my part of the world it's really not that easy to even be out of the cell service range). If i didn't take the phone i would still take a decent enough GPS unit, both for everyday convenience and because i had few situations where being able to get a read turned it from "well, fuck" to "sigh, i guess i need to go THAT way". And i will carry a map or at least a general road map because i am a firm believer in the Murphy's law.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:48:29 No.2340301 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340281
>I never said all cellphones were created equal ibjist demanded peer reviewed research showing the difference in receiver performance
AhahhahahahhahahahahahHHha
Keep going midwit, keep sucking that cellphone cartel cock

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:50:20 No.2340306 Report

Quoted By: >>2340316

>>2340293
This guy gets it.
>>2340300
This is a city fag who lives in jersey and considers up state NY backcountry.
Note the lack of brevity? Hallmark of a low iq.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 16:55:54 No.2340316 Report

Quoted By: >>2340341

>>2340306
>This is a city fag who lives in jersey and considers up state NY backcountry.
>Note the lack of brevity? Hallmark of a low iq.
Your ravings are getting better and better, i'm starting to suspect there are some pills you should be taking but aren't. Also, "note" is more of a direct instruction, it shouldn't have a question mark after it, if you wanted to form a question in this context you should have used "notice", just a remark since we are talking IQ now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 17:05:43 No.2340332 Report

Quoted By: >>2340344 >>2340345

>>2340300
But is navigation really that difficult to you?
Like following a map is a really fucking simple.
So simple that I find it hard beliving that mueling all of this extra stuff around is really worth the effort.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 17:12:17 No.2340341 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340316
>gets wrecked on navigation comprehension
>couldn't comprehend several previous comments
>wants to debate grammar
Tell us where you out lumins one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 17:16:51 No.2340344 Report

Quoted By: >>2340350

>>2340332
Once during a SNAFU involving a new hiker who became injured in the wilderness, three failed flashlights, and a bunch of other shit that went comically wrong, GPS saved me from spending a cold night under a mylar blanket. Even since then I've generally carried one. Anyway we are drifting off topic. Do you guys find a compass with adjustable declination worthwhile or not? And are there any affordable brands that aren't made in China?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 17:17:12 No.2340345 Report

Quoted By: >>2340360 >>2340410

>>2340332
>But is navigation really that difficult to you?
Not at all, it's mostly about the terrain character here, about 30% of land here is covered with forests, keeping the direction alone can require some good thinking sometimes, and with the network of actual roads, service roads and private roads (all of which are not on the maps usually) all crossing each other it's not all that comfortable trying to keep track of things just refering to a map (especially when your landmarks are the pine left to you and the pine right to you with a dash of the pine in front of you). Add to that the fact keeping track of actual distance traveled isn't very reliable when you go all serpentine to use easy to traverse patches, after few hours of enjoyable forest trotting you can easily be few kilometers from where you wanted to be both distance and direction wise (which i don't mind all that much as long as the place i end up at is nice).When i am in mostly open space it's a breeze, but i prefer to have some trees around me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 17:21:22 No.2340350 Report

Quoted By: >>2340360

>>2340344
>Do you guys find a compass with adjustable declination worthwhile or not?
Not really, once you wrap your head around the topic it's really easy to just add and take avay few deg/mil from your read. Just shoot your zminuth, add or subtract the declination from what you got from the map and sight it with a compass, that's all there is to it.
>And are there any affordable brands that aren't made in China?
Seems Silva is making them, it's a decent enough brand imo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 17:23:02 No.2340351 Report

Quoted By: >>2340378 >>2343033

>>2339392
>Doesn't everyone learn it in school or something?
Are you like 75 or something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 17:28:31 No.2340360 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340345
Yeah forest roads sometimes get me really turned around. It can be worse when you're driving since you get so far off course so fast. It makes me nervous when people go out there without extra food and water.
>>2340350
Based. I have a shitty Silva knockoff that's super old. Honestly it still works great except the action is a little gritty. I sometimes think about upgrading but it's probably not necessary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 17:41:08 No.2340378 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340351
I do come from a country with conscription so I guess that might have something to do with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 18:27:05 No.2340401 Report

Quoted By: >>2340409 >>2340428

>>2340064
i live in america. school is a way for parents to ignore their kids, communists to get paid for being unbearable, and the state to inhibit blacks from murdering each other until they are adults. learning does not even enter the equation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 18:36:58 No.2340409 Report

Quoted By: >>2340428

>>2340401
In America, Boy Scouts used to teach this stuff but idk if they do that any more after all the changes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 18:37:03 No.2340410 Report

Quoted By: >>2340427 >>2340462

>>2340345
Service roads, in the USA, can absolutely be found on maps. fs.usda.gov for example. The term is gis data and its kept up to date because, shocker, the forestry service and department of agriculture use PAPER maps.

Gaging distance on a trail is a matter of experience, it's like using the sun to tell time...some people are just incapable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 18:45:57 No.2340427 Report

Quoted By: >>2340434

>>2340410
Private roads are not always on maps. Even sometimes when there is a public right of way. It depends on context. Map makers are pretty aggressive about pruning roads that they don't want to keep track of.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 18:45:59 No.2340428 Report

Quoted By: >>2340430

>>2340401
This is an incredibly accurate observation. They probably punish you for being intelligent.
>>2340409
The feminists and trannies obliterated the boy scouts a decade ago. Male spaces propagate patriarchy and must be destroyed--this started in the 80s.

Land navigation has some tricks but it just takes practice. Once I route plan on a map (I hand draw a basic map for driving) I almost don't even have to look at it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 18:47:17 No.2340430 Report

Quoted By: >>2340437

>>2340428
Based map-sketcher. I should start doing that. Seems like the perfect way to make it stick in your mind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 18:50:51 No.2340434 Report

Quoted By: >>2340438

>>2340427
Private roads are not the same thing as service roads anon. Get your terminology straight. In fact what are you even talking about, most private roads are on gis data as well as they almost all are tracked by the county for their permitting and land use gibs.
..
Look up gis and get back to me

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 20220411_145539.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 18:57:32 No.2340437 Report

Quoted By: >>2340445 >>2340462 >>2347206

>>2340430
It was an hour drive. It took me less than 5 minutes to draw and I looked at it once to remember a street name. I learned this early on in the military.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 18:57:44 No.2340438 Report

Quoted By: >>2340465

>>2340434
I own some private roads that are not listed in any GIS database. And I regularly use one that used to be listed but was removed. I'm not sure if they would be considered "service roads" though, maybe not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 19:01:55 No.2340445 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340437
Very nice. I'm going to start doing that. Thanks anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 19:20:48 No.2340462 Report

Quoted By: >>2340472 >>2340476

>>2340410
>Service roads, in the USA, can absolutely be found on maps
Here it's a bit of a different story, there are permanent service roads, those are kept in order and all as all other roads, those are on maps, and there are temporary ones, made for the needs of lumber production or bigger scale works in the forests, those are pretty much on "as needed" basis and no one bothers to map them out. Private roads are not mapped at all cause it's up to you if and where you want one.

As for gaging distance, sure, but being "close enough" is usually not close enough here, as you can have two nearly identical clearings not so far apart, and trying to go off of that can really fuck up your orientation. Also, i will still say gaging distance when you are on trail is significantly different from doing it when you move through a solid forest not even being on a tract of any kind (which is the awesome kind of trekking in local forests, relatively sparse undergrowth and a canopy of trees above you is the way to enjoy the day).

>>2340437
That is really good for moving on/along side established tracts

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 19:22:02 No.2340465 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340438
Who is "they"
Private roads are just that--private. Service roads are on federally owned land (county/state or national) sometimes corporations with a lot of land have "Service roads" but those are tracked and governed by permits.

If you're talking about the tiny sliver of Private roads on Private property like a farm or ranch I guarantee you they are in gis data because areal photos are almost an annual thing and that is a big part of gis data. Weather your second driveway or your fence line road is included on a topo is entirely up to the policy of the map printers.

The bulk of roads that matter are available on maps. If you need a map for your own or other people's land holdings...you got a different problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 19:26:07 No.2340472 Report

Quoted By: >>2340482

>>2340462
I was raised in wa state and spent allot of time on logging roads on the Olympic peninsula and Eastern wa....You're very incorrect about your comments regardingloggingroads. My brother in law regularly printed logging road maps at work because he was to cheap to buy them and had a large format printer. gis data is annually of not more frequently updated.

Where is "here"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 19:31:04 No.2340476 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340462
0437 was specifically about driving directions and only driving directions

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 19:39:55 No.2340482 Report

Quoted By: >>2340582 >>2340615

>>2340472
Here is in Poland, and i can assure you no one is bothering with mapping out the spider web of roads made through the forest to get the cut lumber out, especially that they are not meant to be kept, they will grow over in a matter of few years or even be planted over. Not sure how planned forestry works in the states but here the predominant model parcel based, you have a relatively small parcel of trees that reach the felling age, you go in and cut it down, then replant with a new generation. Those are small patches spread across the forest complexes, it's pretty normal for the lumberjacks to just "make a road" (more like tract) for the needs of lubmer haul and then either plant it over or let it be and the nature does it for them, next time anyone will need a road ecactly there will be in few decades so no point maintaining it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 20:06:31 No.2340508 Report

Quoted By: >>2340516 >>2340579

Is out filled with more know it all faggots than other boards?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 20:18:47 No.2340516 Report

Quoted By: >>2340579

>>2340508
Seems to be the case. I'm not quite sure why. Although some of it is just based (you) farmers who are trying to drive some activity on an otherwise slow board.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 20:32:28 No.2340524 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340073
nice humblebragging faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 21:41:09 No.2340559 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339376
Just make a mark on your compass either side of the index pointer at the variation for the map you are using, so you can set a bearing and see at a glance what the numbers will be when you add or subtract mag variation. Not 100% accurate but fast and easy. Otherwise you should work out the mag bearings to follow before you even start walking so you don't need to work these out on the march, all going well you just follow your planned route

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 22:08:48 No.2340579 Report

Quoted By: >>2340584 >>2340592

>>2340508
>>2340516
>classic projectiin

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 22:14:40 No.2340582 Report

Quoted By: >>2340643

>>2340482
GIS data is from satellite imagry. Falconview is great if you aren't poor...isn't poland all private forests though?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 22:17:11 No.2340584 Report

Quoted By: >>2340617

>>2340579
it's cute that this is where they met
probably gonna meet up in IRL and fuck
just like my animes

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 22:25:29 No.2340592 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340579
no u

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 22:49:27 No.2340615 Report

Quoted By: >>2340643

>>2340482
https://www.geoportal.gov.pl/en/dane

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 22:51:50 No.2340617 Report

Quoted By: >>2340629

>>2340584
>half the thread calls you out for saying stupid shit
>claims it's all the same person
Yes, clearly it's the board. Tell us more about how amazing your cellphone is and how manual land navigation is, like, totally hard and, just why would you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 23:06:29 No.2340629 Report

Quoted By: >>2341054

>>2340617
One of these days that guy is going to drop his phone in a stream while trying to take a selfie and have to have SAR come pull his dumb ass out of a county park with clearly marked and maintained trails.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 23:29:06 No.2340643 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340582
Nah, there's a lot of public land, and even in provate forests the chance of someone telling you to GTFO is next to none. There are even some good developments regarding /out/ism, some time back most forestry districts opened special areas with considerably more relaxed regulations if you want to go and do some bushcrafty stuff there (rest is more like your average eurocuck standard)

>>2340615
what about it? i use that site often but i fail to see how it relates to my post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2022 23:39:49 No.2340652 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339351
I ALWAYS carry a map and compass with me in addition to my phone. It's basic common safety sense. I actually tend to use it and my phone pretty often.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 02:19:57 No.2340733 Report

Quoted By: >>2340754

i carry a map and compass but i recently bought a used garmin etrex 10 that i will learn to use and keep with extra batteries just in case

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 02:58:14 No.2340754 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340733
That is a good approach. For "just in case" use, remember to take a waypoint at your car or campsite. Then you can just turn it off. Or let it run and record your route if you prefer. I like to turn it off but occasionally grab a waypoint when there is a significant landmark or when I stop for lunch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 03:07:03 No.2340757 Report

Quoted By: >>2340762 >>2341018

Okay so in in contr of the us nay satellite core civilian ops...

Titled "sav"

I'm making some addition to the picture grande scheme of things titled endpoints.

But I . Deploying spyware through them.

I hope you don't mind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 03:13:38 No.2340762 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340757
Stupendously based, anon. Please proceed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:18:16 No.2341018 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340757
>the navy is using Spyware on civilian smart GPS devices
Did you get permission from the Chinese to use their hardware back doors?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:29:17 No.2341034 Report

Quoted By: >>2341039

>>2339357
i don´t think anyone who frequents this board has any reason not to know how to navigate with map and compass
the i have no dad meme from few years back still holds true, first thing anyone should learn even from these youtuber father figures is how to use a map

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:36:33 No.2341039 Report

Quoted By: >>2341051 >>2341067

>>2341034
I've been trying to teach my dad to use the alltrails app. The good thing is they let the whole family use the same login for a Pro account with no restrictions, so I make lists of trails for a particular day or trip and we both have to separately download the layers (alltrails layer, and usgs topo layers are most helpful) to our respective phones ahead of time.

Most people on this board genuinely don't understand that a (modern) cell phone's gps chip works with no data coverage/cell phone towers nearby. I mean I will admit, they don't make it particularly clear and when smartphones were first introduced (iphone original) it didn't have a gps chip iirc. It's not that I don't know how to use a map and compass, it's that it's laughably outdated and tedious compared to quickly pulling out my phone and seeing my position on the map in seconds.

Honestly, I think this thread is most disinfo shills who refuse to try using a phone instead of paper maps and want to discourage everyone else because they are insecure about using technology.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_20220412-094136_Gallery.jpg, 1MiB, 720x1600

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 14:57:22 No.2341051 Report

Quoted By: >>2341058 >>2341064 >>2341721 >>2343548 >>2353210

>>2341039
>thinks all phones have the same GPS receiver hardware
>hikes heavily trafficked trails
>doesn't know how to navigate using a map and compass but keeps giving advice on navigation
>gets repeatedly shot down for staying stupid shit in EVERY thread he posts in but blames it on !this board is just shills and trolls reeeeee!
phone retard strikes again. Your lack of self awareness is simply amazing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 15:04:42 No.2341054 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340629
I sincerely doubt he ever leaves the trail or "hikes" more than 20 miles a trip.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 15:12:33 No.2341058 Report

Quoted By: >>2341064 >>2341103

>>2341051
Give it a rest fudd, you are getting boring and appartently responding to 2 or 3 people like they are one anon, dementia much? And you keep harping like a spaz, electronics baaaaad, paper goood, only paper for long trips, okey Thurd Hayertard do your paper, most people post stone age are pretty happy with phones, gps devices or nav units and there is literally nothing you can do about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 15:24:52 No.2341064 Report

Quoted By: >>2341103

>>2341051
I hike plenty of very lightly trafficked trails.

>>thinks all phones have the same GPS receiver hardware

I mean, like any smartphone with a gps chip that can open an app displaying georeferenced maps and that's like any iphone from the last 12 years so I'd say it's a pretty broad range.

>doesn't know how to navigate using a map and compass but keeps giving advice on navigation

I'm pretty rusty but I've done it before

You know most modern smartphones can handle getting dropped in a stream briefly without damage?

>>2341058
Well the issue is jt hampers trying to tell people HOW to use electronic maps because there's someone screaming in the background and spamming pictures of topo maps as if I can't display them on my phone.

I just want to help people understand how to use electronic maps on their phone and that modern smartphone gps chips do not require any cell signal to tell your position.

Turn on airplane mode when you are innawoods + pre-download maps in the layers you want ahead of time when you DO have reception to your phone

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 15:32:13 No.2341067 Report

Quoted By: >>2341077 >>2341110

>>2341039
sure GPS has it´s uses, i myself use map apps while ice fishing
i tried to teach my dad too but it was too much for him, i am sure he would have loved it while laying his nets during winter
still the fact remains that one should be able to read a regular map and know how to use it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 15:37:21 No.2341077 Report

Quoted By: >>2341103

>>2341067
Once he can view the map with the red line showing the track and the blue dot representing his current position he's good. Alltrails shows how much distance you've gone and have yet to go on your route which is nice.

>still the fact remains that one should be able to read a regular map and know how to use it

nope, for most people they would never learn that and setting the lower-barrier skill of reading an electronic map is going to get more people outdoors and not lost

I'm glad it works for you, but for most people, it's tedious and time-consuming to determine position on a paper map when you can do so instantaneously and accurately with almost any smartphone with a gps chip.

Just bring a backup brick. Mine can last a week.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 196.jpg, 65KiB, 510x1499

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 16:17:13 No.2341103 Report

Quoted By:

>>2341058
>I can't comprehend anything not spoon fed to me by an electronic device
>>2341064
>Still thinks cellphones all have reliable GPS hardware
>I totally used a map when I was 12 bro
>just turn on airplane mode and let the phone tell you where to go---see I totally taught you how to use a phone
>>2341077
>just let the phone do it bro!! It's, like, so easy, maps are just, like, ugh, so lame, ugh
>GPS gives you a grid but can't figure out how to plot it on a map
Truly incredible

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 16:40:32 No.2341110 Report

Quoted By: >>2341113

>>2341067
I bought my dad a Gbasic bitch GPS for fishing. He uses it to mark crab pots and return routes incase a fog rolls in. He was good at a depth finder so the GPS wasn't that difficult. He's 70.

Hse carries a flp phone because it's cheap to replace if he drops it in the water--which happens allot with old people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 16:44:40 No.2341113 Report

Quoted By: >>2341145 >>2341172

>>2341110
Any iphone since the iphone 7 can handle immersion in water. Most recent model smartphones have a gps chip, can handle being immersed in water, and can tell you your position on a pre-downloaded ma.

>>Still thinks cellphones all have reliable GPS hardware

most recent smartphones should be fine and you can always ask/check the specs when buying but like i think iphones since the 3g have a GPS chip in them.

I don't know much about android hardware but I assume most recent models have a gps chip and can run an app that displays a downloaded map.

you know like jackets and shorts and pants can be had with zip-close pockets to put your phone in when you are scrambling around rocks and near water (ask how I know)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 17:14:17 No.2341145 Report

Quoted By: >>2341151

>>2341113
He's an ocean fisherman. I am a computer scientist--most out of network cell GPS hardware is utter trash. There is a reason national parks recommend against using cellphones to navigate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 17:21:25 No.2341151 Report

Quoted By: >>2341241

>>2341145
I would argue that you should never trust a cell phone for anything important. Have you ever met the tards that design and program them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 17:42:30 No.2341169 Report

Quoted By: >>2341237 >>2341296

Fact: Pace counting doesn't work because going uphill is different stride then down and that's assuming a perfect straight path not zigzagging because rocks. Don't listen to YouTube.
I can follow a heading to feature and so on but not directly get to exact spot with a compass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 17:46:56 No.2341172 Report

Quoted By:

>>2341113
I have a Motorola phone that works fine, and zip phone pocket inside left.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 18:34:07 No.2341193 Report

Quoted By: >>2341208

I just realized that calculating distances on a non metric map might be absolutely fucking miserable.
Somebody mentioned it before and I was puzzled, because in metric maps it's just literally taking a measure and doing simple multiplications or divisions. Like for example every half centimeter is a kilometer.
How is it on non metric maps?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 18:58:07 No.2341208 Report

Quoted By: >>2341220

>>2341193
Miles are still linear... so you can still multiply and divide if you want. Occasionally scales are selected for convenient measurement, like one inch is one mile. Often for various reasons the scale ends up being just slightly off an even multiplier. So for example you could say that 1/2 inch is a mile if you don't care about a 5% error or something like that. For hiking purposes you can normally just eyeball it after looking at the scale markings or grab an approximate measurement with a string.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 19:10:12 No.2341220 Report

Quoted By: >>2341221 >>2341239

>>2341208
Ah, so even that's not an excuse. I was trying to come up with something.
Are the available maps bad or something?
The terrain especially hard to navigate due to lack of landmarks or long streches of dense forest?
Like I get it if you haven't slept well and are a little bit out of it things might get kind of sketchy, but otherwise I just don't see the point.
Like I get GPS for safety if you're going with a larger group or insrtucting someone, but if that was the case I think I'd rather just go straight to a satellite phone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 19:19:39 No.2341221 Report

Quoted By: >>2341237 >>2341239 >>2341265

>>2341220
Not sure where you're from but it's worth pointing out that America is HUGE and probably encompasses nearly every conceivable use case for land navigation. There are expanses of dense forest and very harsh terrain that are easily large enough to live and die in. Deserts large enough that you are just surrounded by mirage and mountains so distant that you can walk all day and they don't move on the horizon. And I think there is a little bit more healthy paranoia since you can easily find yourself in an area where it's difficult to get back to civilization on foot even if you know exactly where you are. Like people occasionally die when they pull off a major highway and their (((cell phone))) stops working lol.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 19:54:56 No.2341237 Report

Quoted By:

>>2341221
There are exponentially more stories involving cellphone navigators getting lost than map-users.
Estimating distance on a map is much easier than using a GPS. The string or paper-edge hash mark method can be extremely accurate. Most experienced map navigaters can just look at the map and give a very accurate guess in metric or standard.
>>2341169
It literally does. If you are a good hiker you should, also, generally know how far you can hike an hour as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 19:56:48 No.2341239 Report

Quoted By: >>2341246 >>2341265

>>2341220
>>2341221
Also adding that there is a lot of variation in people and their navigation styles. Obviously only a certain kind of person would be posting in a thread on 4chan so you get a biased perspective. If you get far enough out in the mountains there are still populations that are illiterate and would probably tell you to shove your map up your ass. And out West there are plenty of families that still teach their kids from a young age how to navigate without a map. Then we have an army of zogbots who have their own ways (varies with age). And a massive population of cityfags who have quite literally never seen the stars or breathed fresh air.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 19:57:51 No.2341241 Report

Quoted By:

>>2341151
Yes. I also know how the components are made. You can have two identical phones, set to GPS only mode, give totally different locations when setting right next to eachother.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 20:02:26 No.2341246 Report

Quoted By: >>2341251

>>2341239
>4chan is biased
>people out in the sticks are illiterate
Are you the same guy who is shilling iPhone and refuses to tell anyone where you /out/
? You sound like a winy 15 year old from Jersey.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 20:06:08 No.2341251 Report

Quoted By: >>2341263

>>2341246
Not me. I hate cell phones. I think they should be banned and violators should be executed via elemental lithium gavage. And yeah there are still some illiterate people out there. No many though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 20:17:22 No.2341263 Report

Quoted By:

>>2341251
My bad.
>Ban cellphones
Agreed. I'm not going to argue literacy statistics because the tranny mods love to ban people for general rule 3.b

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 20:21:03 No.2341265 Report

Quoted By: >>2341274

>>2341221
>>2341239
but you're still just walking, it's not like you move fast on a scale of a map
like how often you go so far that you have to switch several maps during one go?
I get that getting a hold of local maps can be a chore sometimes if you're going really far away, but I think that a good map of a place you like to visit is a really neat thing to have

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 20:27:43 No.2341274 Report

Quoted By: >>2341300

>>2341265
Again I'm assuming you're a non-American asking about America so apologies if I'm stating the obvious. You can get USGS maps for anywhere in the country and they do vary a bit with respect to age and completeness. There is little or no overlap between sections so sometimes you get unlucky and need to carry two or four even for a small hike. If you're hiking something that is not well-represented on these maps then you start to see people with maps cut up and taped together, antique maps, hand-traced trails, etc. Sometimes certain scales are not available so they can also be inconvenient for driving or other vehicle travel. Most of the time the USGS maps are damn good though, but they do make certain choices about what trails are listed and how often they update a particular area.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 21:09:25 No.2341296 Report

Quoted By: >>2341306

>>2341169
Pace counting works but that comes with experience not theory. Obviously your pacing is going to change struggling up a hill or weaving around rocks or trees, it will change depending on the load you are carrying etc, you just need to get a feel for it and will be accurate enough. It can and will double at times

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 21:21:50 No.2341300 Report

Quoted By: >>2341721

>>2341274
>2002
>heading to Flag Mountain in Alabama
>not much of a mountain, more like a bill lol
>never been
>buy a map online
>pretty sure I sent a money order because the government wasn’t taking credit cards yet
>arrives in the mail
>imprint year: 1984
>map year: 1971

That was the most recent map for the area at the time. It’s gotten a lot better from what I’ve seen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Apr 2022 21:29:42 No.2341306 Report

Quoted By: >>2341609

>>2341296
To be quite honest I almost never practice literal pace counting. I see that as mostly a skill for orienteering and such. I significantly vary my pace and stride when I'm hiking for pleasure and I tend to mentally zone out when working hard anyway. If you pay close attention to your distance traveled over many hikes it will eventually become second nature to estimate it and also judge approximately what time you will arrive at a destination, without literally counting steps. I'm probably at a disadvantage compared to someone who does count paces but it's normally OK.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO hitomi-chan is shy with strangers .png, 199KiB, 371x916

Anonymous Wed 13 Apr 2022 06:09:49 No.2341574 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339351
Yes unironically I always hike with a compass and a either a local map or a shitty printout of the general area I will be in.

Land nav is not that fucking hard. Just make sure your map has fuckin north on it and you will be fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Apr 2022 07:53:05 No.2341598 Report

Quoted By:

For mountaineering in the alps maps are still better especially when skimountaineering in winter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Apr 2022 08:18:52 No.2341609 Report

Quoted By: >>2343000

>>2341306
This, I also never count pace, I just go from a land mark to another and I'm well aware of the distances even before I ever step foot to the forest becauseI tend to plan the places that I sleep at ahead of time.
I have this rule of thumb that it's roughly 6km every 2 hours when I take my sweet time and that distance is usually enough for me to take a little drinking break.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Apr 2022 13:51:08 No.2341721 Report

Quoted By: >>2341722 >>2343501

>>2341300
>Base survey date.
This is misleading. The base survey could be 1984, or even 1950 but contain current updates from the latest GIS data.
>>2341051 <---
The base layer of this map is 1950 but the area depicted reflects a dam removal that happened in 2012 (Lake Mills on the Elwha river) as well the current location of several forest roads that absolutely weren't there when the map was made.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 13 Apr 2022 13:52:13 No.2341722 Report

Quoted By:

>>2341721
(when the base survey was made, my bad, it's been updated with much more modern surveys but they still credit USGS for laying down the baseline)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 Apr 2022 19:37:58 No.2342687 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339428
>just ignore Texas vegetation on the map
Texas has trees..?!?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 Apr 2022 04:46:30 No.2343000 Report

Quoted By: >>2343455

>>2341609
Pace counting more handy when creeping through the bush in search of random stream junction spot height etc which is the landmark for your next bearing, just to know how close you are, moving that way you'd be lucking to be doing 4km a day let alone every couple hours

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 Apr 2022 05:52:19 No.2343033 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340351
i'm from australia, born in 1998, and i'm pretty sure we learned how to read topo maps and use a compass in school

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 Apr 2022 20:08:34 No.2343455 Report

Quoted By: >>2343849

>>2343000
>counting pace slows you down
Wut

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 Apr 2022 20:59:19 No.2343501 Report

Quoted By: >>2343548

>>2341721
The phrase “base survey data” isn’t something I’m familiar with. I’ve seen the terms “map year” and “imprint year.” And the year I went, the latest one was 1984. This was so common in the 90’s it had become a meme (before anyone used the term meme).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 Apr 2022 21:37:22 No.2343548 Report

Quoted By: >>2343644 >>2345145

>>2343501
You have narural features like mountains and rivers, man made features like roads and trails, and agreed uppon methods of scaling those features to a usable grid.

GIS (geographic information system) is another source of cartographic information primarily from satellite and aerial photos.

You can have base survey data which is basically terrain maped in 1950 updated with roads and specific-updated terrain based on GIS data but, because most of the mountains and vallies haven't moved since 1950, still be largely based on usgs 1950.

So>>2341051 is a 1950 map usable in 2021 because everything that has changed since 1950 has been updated. Think of it like photoshopping and giving most of the credit to the credit to the original photographer.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 00:10:55 No.2343644 Report

Quoted By: >>2343853 >>2344257 >>2353210

>>2343548
He’s a screen shot of the electronic version of the paper map I had. This is a scam available from the USGS. Notice the official stamp of 1987, and the printed date of 1979. Do you think changes were made to a printed map that was stamped in 1987?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 06:06:08 No.2343830 Report

Quoted By:

>accidentally bought fake compass oil

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 06:47:48 No.2343849 Report

Quoted By:

>>2343455
Not at all, if you are caning it down some track counting numbers every left foot to track distance isn't going to slow you down. But pace count is more handy for placing yourself in a close terrain looking for features you can't spot in the distance, maybe at a slow deer stalk pace, or navigating at night in the open. Or to think which false crest you have reached. In those situations, kilometers per hour is pretty optimistic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 06:57:03 No.2343853 Report

Quoted By: >>2343954 >>2344265

>>2343644
In old maps you need to look at the mag variation again. It will be right there in the corner on most. There will be a change to the variation each year since it was printed, which you can add on to the original depending on how many years have past

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 10:22:38 No.2343954 Report

Quoted By: >>2344259 >>2344264

>>2343853
So it’s settled; the map I had to use in 2002 hadn’t been updated since 1979.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 18:33:08 No.2344257 Report

Quoted By:

>>2343644
If you bought it from USGS it is whatever they tell you it is. Revised and updated maps don't come from USGS but are based on USGS surveys.

You didn't read anything I wrote. USGS isn't the only map making entity and don't control subsequent edits of their base maps.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 18:37:47 No.2344259 Report

Quoted By: >>2345126

>>2343954
The map you chose to use. Again, USGS isn't the sole proprietor of maps by a long shot.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_20220416-144215_Chrome.jpg, 429KiB, 720x1600

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 18:44:56 No.2344264 Report

Quoted By: >>2344265 >>2344267 >>2345126 >>2345130 >>2347016

>>2343954
This is a vendor that covers Alabama

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 18:46:15 No.2344265 Report

Quoted By:

The first thing old hat map people look at is the map legend to check the revision

>>2343853
>>2344264

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_20220416-144348_Chrome.jpg, 479KiB, 720x1600

Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 18:48:14 No.2344267 Report

Quoted By: >>2347016

>>2344264

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 Apr 2022 20:32:50 No.2344378 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339360
East is least there you go buddy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 16:17:33 No.2345089 Report

Quoted By: >>2345132

>>2339360
True north is the center of Earth's rotation on its axis (it actually wobbles a little over a year, but not enough to matter for now)

Grid north is a mapping byproduct of the division of earth into grids. Earth isn't perfectly spherical (it is an Oblate Spheroid) thus dividing it into grids ends up in slices not aligning perfectly to true north.

Magnetic north is a byproduct of earth's core and it not only moves annually at a non fixes rate, it has regional anomalies.

The reality is in normal navigation you don't care about true north--only Grid north and Magnetic north.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 16:31:14 No.2345096 Report

Quoted By: >>2345105

>>2339360
Take whatever azimuth you got from the map and add the GM angle adjustment for your area. That result is what you follow on the compass.
>>2340293
>garmin watch
>charges with the sun
>weighs nothing
>can give me my grid in 10 digits
>is a compass
>can set waypoints
>can give it a grid and it will take me there like a dagger
Life isn't that complicated guys

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 16:46:57 No.2345105 Report

Quoted By: >>2345109

>>2345096
versus
>look at map
>check compass
>continue going about my day
none of that beep boop bing stuff for me thanks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 16:50:19 No.2345109 Report

Quoted By: >>2345125 >>2345131

>>2345105
Some of us work for a living yk

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 17:06:34 No.2345125 Report

Quoted By:

>>2345109
So you have shit priorities and suck at time management. Stay on the trails fatty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 17:07:54 No.2345126 Report

Quoted By: >>2345145

>>2344264
Those are just USGS maps.
>>2344259
You must have been in elementary school in 2002 if you think you could have just Googled “Alabama maps” and found anything other than USGS 7.5’. Like I said, this was so common it was a meme.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 17:11:14 No.2345130 Report

Quoted By: >>2345145

>>2344264
And here’s every US GS map available for that area. Please tell me which one would have been sent to me in 2002.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 17:13:35 No.2345131 Report

Quoted By:

>>2345109
What does your job have to do with this?
Maps are dirt cheap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 17:14:25 No.2345132 Report

Quoted By: >>2345141

>>2345089
basically in layman terms nothing about that matters for a regular person adventuring around his local woods or generally finding his way around
t.eri

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 17:24:25 No.2345141 Report

Quoted By: >>2345150

>>2345132
>comprehending basic navigation doesn't matter to most trail-hiking-city-dwelling-retards
Yes, this point has been made several times. To a beginner who is trying to learn, though, this is basic intro knowledge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 17:29:29 No.2345145 Report

Quoted By: >>2346461

>>2345126
>>2345130
>Thise are just USGS
Dear God you're beyond retarded
>>2345130
>interpret this random website for me
>These are the OnlY maps available
They're literally not.

I'm amazed at both your total lack of reading compression coupled with your ability to say the stupidest shit over and over.

>>2343548<--- read this like 10 times.

My bet is you unironically use alltrails which is USGS based.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Apr 2022 17:35:46 No.2345150 Report

Quoted By: >>2346388

>>2345141
>To a beginner who is trying to learn, though, this is basic intro knowledge
yes i was talking about regular navigating with a compass and what i meant was good to know but basics and some practice first

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Apr 2022 23:37:07 No.2346388 Report

Quoted By:

>>2345150
They put true north on there to confuse noobs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 00:57:20 No.2346461 Report

Quoted By: >>2346780

>>2345145
>because everything that has changed since 1950 has been updated.
Except for the declination, right?
And the website you linked to is literally just maps based off of USGS 7.5’ topos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 07:17:21 No.2346651 Report

Quoted By:

Landnav isn't so daunting when you realize that what you learn is cumulative advantage rather than an endless cliff you have to climb.
And yea, if you're leaning on paper it's going to feel like the latter.

I'm far from an expert so I won't give any coaching, but it's important to stay positive and realize what your learning is strength on strength.
If you were with a group and one person learned nothing this improvement would quickly become obvious

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 07:40:42 No.2346667 Report

Quoted By: >>2346788 >>2346939

Also I would like to argue that it's dangerous sending noobs out who are relying on systems they don't understand.
"Just stay on the trail bro" isn't responsible outdoorsmanship, nor is "just bring a battery pack bro" or "just follow the signs bro".
People are quickly out of their depth, and have no plan B to fall back on.

I'm out on a trail and I find people who've become disoriented and are doubling back on themselves- often for miles.
Just as often I find people who've followed an animal track, taken a wrong turn at a cross trail, or followed an unmarked path assholes have made as a shortcut.
If you can take a basic bearing this shouldn't happen to you; but yet these people were sent out on a trail when in fact they couldn't take a basic bearing.
Maybe they were relying on a mobile app that couldn't work offline, maybe they ran out of battery, maybe they dropped their phone in water.
Often however panic is the main factor.
Being totally reliant on a single navigation tool, doubt crept in and they had no way to double check.
"That tree looks familiar" at some point overrides "just stay on the path", this happens a number of times and they panic and leave the trail.

Landnav isn't easy- some people are just particularly good at it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 13:19:45 No.2346766 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339351
I’ve been using topo maps regularly, and I usually take them on short trips. I find them great for studying paths etc.

Recently I haven’t really been so far from roads that I don’t know where I am, so I use them mainly in preparation and backup. I haven’t gotten used enough to topo apps to discard the map, but I use them mainly as backup, at least for the most difficult areas. I take them out once a day usually, and in preparation.

That said, I suck at land nav in the wild without a GPS, or very clear landmarks. I use a compass while sailing, but I’m bad at estimating elevations, distances, and my own speed. I’ve done some azimuth marches and other orienteering in the past.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 13:54:21 No.2346780 Report

Quoted By: >>2346961

>>2346461
>I'm going to post the same retardation over and over because I have no comprehension of how maps are updated or labeled: the post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 14:20:36 No.2346788 Report

Quoted By:

>>2346667
>noobs
This is a broad spectrum. Some people have access to instructors, some don't; some people live in areas with obvious and visible terrain features and some people don't; some people have good spatial awareness; some people don't... etc.

If someone want's to learn map reading there is no reason to abandon a secondary means of verification for safety. Although, ideally, a noob would find a teacher that wasn't le YouTube.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 17:54:19 No.2346939 Report

Quoted By: >>2346946 >>2346962 >>2358406

Does anyone here know where i can get free and reliable topo maps in Australia, specifically NSW? NSW government loves to be mysterious on anything outdoors
>>2339360
im incredibly retarded, ive always got under 50% on any math test i literally still to subtraction and addition with my fingers. i have a pouch with a calculator, pencil, notebook for nav, and a laminated sheet with the formulas.
>>2346667
this, but noobs are so retarded they are literally NPCs.
>completely give all your trust in a $3 compass, paper map, and a 3min how to youtube guide
>dont bring anyone along, including someone who is experienced with land nav
>go somewhere with no signal, completely unprepared
at this point its natural selection

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 18:00:52 No.2346946 Report

Quoted By: >>2347455

>>2346939
>i literally still to subtraction and addition with my fingers
I have degrees in math and mechanical engineering and I do this sometimes... You can learn the declination shit. It's one of those simple concepts that just isn't instantly obvious to the human brain. But when you get it, you get it. And the waters are muddied further by tons of extremely low-quality instruction and educational materials.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 18:26:55 No.2346961 Report

Quoted By: >>2347016

>>2346780
You don’t seem to have any explanation, so you’ll just fall back on “your dumb because you don’t get it lol.” I mean, you can link to your previous comments that don’t explain why as well, or just state again that maps get updated, but that’s not an explanation. You even said to check the declination, and I did, and it’s clearly dated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 18:28:10 No.2346962 Report

Quoted By: >>2347455 >>2358412

>>2346939
>no signal
Who’s retarded again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 19:40:03 No.2347016 Report

Quoted By: >>2347128

>>2346961
I'm not having a hard time at all believing you're really this retarded.
>>2344264 <read
>>2344267 <read
Even alltrails uses usgs base maps. It's amazing you have no idea where the cellphone apps get their data.
You're just boringly stupid at this point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 22:07:51 No.2347128 Report

Quoted By: >>2347714

>>2347016
They don’t explain anything. I posted a list of all available USGS maps that showed what was available in 2002, and you posted info from an app that sources USGS maps. You also said to check the declination (as it would be updated since it’s constantly changing) and it was dated as 1979, the imprint year of the map. None of what you posted provides any evidence that there was a map released between 1987 and 2018. Your entire argument is “yeah there was; trust me bro” and “lol your retarded.”

I really don’t understand why you’re so angry about this. Inb4 the “I’m not angry” cope.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Apr 2022 23:49:36 No.2347206 Report

Quoted By:

>>2340437
That's literally how I first drove to Friedberg from Grafenwohr and back when I was stationed in Germany.
"Sergeant, take the van back to the rear and bring back this list of shit we forgot."
It's also how I drove a new rental SUV from Heidelberg, Germany to Tuzla, Bosnia on a contract once.
I drove all over Europe for 12 years.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Apr 2022 07:46:04 No.2347455 Report

Quoted By: >>2347715

>>2346962
still you
>>2346946
yeah i think its just i always lose what im thinking about, like ill have a number in my head and absolutely lose it, so i need a physical reminder

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Apr 2022 16:08:41 No.2347714 Report

Quoted By:

>>2347128
Im not angry at all, I'm laughing at your Retardation and am bored with your repetitive rejection of information.

You're literally saying no map more recent than 1984 USGS exists and it's hilarious how far you'll go to avoid overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Poast the maps you use to navigate, or the software--digital or otherwise--so I can laugh at you even more.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 20 Apr 2022 16:09:50 No.2347715 Report

Quoted By: >>2349078

>>2347455

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 20 Apr 2022 22:34:31 No.2348015 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339351
Paper maps do not require batteries.

Madsen Maskingevær !!o9Rj2xAYif5

Madsen Maskingevær !!o9Rj2xAYif5 Wed 20 Apr 2022 22:43:40 No.2348021 Report

Quoted By:

>>2339351
love me ranger beads
love me compass
love me paper map

simple as

Madsen Maskingevær !!o9Rj2xAYif5

Madsen Maskingevær !!o9Rj2xAYif5 Wed 20 Apr 2022 22:48:24 No.2348023 Report

Quoted By:

and i dont know who needs this, but i will pass it on, specifically for Denmark but it is stupid detailed and you can plan routes and measure areal of lakes and Mountains based of topographic data

>https://sdfekort.dk/spatialmap

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 08:14:46 No.2349078 Report

Quoted By: >>2349573

>>2347715
learned it when i did cadets as a kid

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 08:43:20 No.2349081 Report

Quoted By: >>2351244

I'm fine using a map and compass for navigating a trail system but I wouldn't be able to orient myself in an overland situation. Often the nat geo maps show trails which aren't on alltrails or other apps. Plus they're waterproof and don't have a battery.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 22 Apr 2022 20:46:10 No.2349573 Report

Quoted By: >>2351985 >>2358398

>>2349078
Sad teaching boys outdoor skills is now taboo

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Apr 2022 17:02:06 No.2351244 Report

Quoted By:

>>2349081
Overland? Flat grasslands are the easiest--you can dead recon everywhere. The hardest is flat ass tropical forests.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Apr 2022 12:24:47 No.2351985 Report

Quoted By: >>2352085

>>2349573
It sure as fuck is not, and it will never be unless you allow degenerate faggots to make up rules for you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Apr 2022 14:56:47 No.2352085 Report

Quoted By:

>>2351985
I meant boy-scouts or any sort of public club. Yes, absolutely teach the lads but don't open it up to the general public as a non profit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Apr 2022 21:26:57 No.2353210 Report

Quoted By: >>2353229 >>2353882

Outside of the military I have never had to use maps or charts. Are you camping for months at a time in the amazon...?

>>2339409
you can get a garmin watch that uses GPS/Galileo/Glonass, You don't need data for that, you can get satellite position even on the north pole(I've done it and yes its accurate), and has a month of battery (not counting the solar charge). If land navigation on paper is anything like sea, hauling around charts, sextant(range fixes on landmarks of known height), pencils, compass, finding a flat surface to work on, etc. you're just putting yourself through a hassle you don't have to go through unless you want the novelty experience. If what you want is the experience, that's fair and I hope you have fun.

>>2341051
>road closed beyond this point
lol.
Is there a NTM equivalent to perform updates on paper charts for land?

>>2343644
>print date is 1979
So its not up to date for WGS-84 datum? You're going to be off if you attempt to use that in conjunction with any gps. Anywhere from 30-100m is expected, assuming the scales are similar to naval charts (harbor/coastal scale).

Umbrellanon

Umbrellanon Tue 26 Apr 2022 22:00:34 No.2353229 Report

Quoted By: >>2353882

>>2353210
>So its not up to date for WGS-84 datum? You're going to be off if you attempt to use that in conjunction with any gps.
It was a paper map. I was telling an anecdote about how, years ago, getting an up-to-date map wasn’t always easy, and a lot of the stuff we got (through the mail) was very outdated. In fact it was a meme before anyone used the word meme. I didn’t have a GPS and smartphones didn’t exist.
Worse than just being off by a few dozen meters would be a trail that no longer exists or a field you want to cross that’s now a trailer park.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2022 17:12:26 No.2353882 Report

Quoted By: >>2355651 >>2358395

>>2353210
When they pulled out the dam the course of the river changed and washed out the road. Instead of fixing the road, which was cost prohibitive, they closed it to vehicles. You can walk or bike it still.

I don't think you know what a datum is...and it's pretty clear you've never navigated on the ocean. I used to navigate for racing boats.

>>2353229
Paper maps are now extremely easy to attain and updated consistently.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2022 22:02:42 No.2355651 Report

Quoted By: >>2356775

>>2353882
>.and it's pretty clear you've never navigated on the ocean. I used to navigate for racing boats.
I was an ANAV on a US submarine from 2013-2017.

The reason I asked if there is a NTM equivalent for land maps, is that there are constant updates to be reviewed and applied to charts. Buoy changes, landmarks removed, traffic separation schemes, etc. These days its all electronic and rather easy.
Even if you were to apply corrections to an old print chart, such as a hazard or stay-out area, it would be in the wrong place unless you take note of these things and make conversions. All this shit is literally a job and the least fun part of going out, and completely a novelty experience in 2022.

pic related, from the latest bowditch. The there are also sounding/bathymetric datums, which is what you probably thought I was confused by, but those wouldn't apply to land navigation.

>Paper maps are now extremely easy to attain and updated consistently.
Instead of buying tons of random maps, just get something cheap and simple like a GPSMAP 78S, which if you've been on racing boats before fancy things like combo radar/chartplotter/fishfinders became common place, you're probably familiar with. Even on large vessels they're around for piloting use. They're portable, versatile, easy to update for all your charts, provide GPS, the benefits are significant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2022 15:10:03 No.2356775 Report

Quoted By: >>2358149

>>2355651
One map is several days of hiking.

A submarine travels at over 20 knots, a sailboat is less than half that. The faster/further you go: the larger the map covering you need.

Most rigattas courses are close enough to land to use a compass and tide guide. The shipping lanes and reefs don't change constantly and the true hazards fir boats are floatsum/jetsum and logs.... or low tide deadheads.

Land navigation maps don't change that much. Even logging roads stay fixed during the 50 year cultivation cycle.

Yes, most of your sub mariner chart knowledge doesn't apply to Land navigation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 01:55:11 No.2358149 Report

Quoted By:

>>2356775
Most park maps are updated every 2 tob7 years depending on the state.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 11:48:17 No.2358395 Report

Quoted By:

>>2353882
Anon...i....

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 11:53:19 No.2358398 Report

Quoted By:

>>2349573
It's only a taboo if it's your society.
Their culture is one of extinction, all their heroes are dead.
Adopt a culture of survival

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 12:20:35 No.2358406 Report

Quoted By:

>>2346939
What specifically are you after?
>https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/
It's got shitty ui but great satellite and decent topo, select it under "base map"
Ask and ye shall receive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 12:23:59 No.2358412 Report

Quoted By: >>2358427

>>2346962
Mobile signal, obviously.
You can get satellite, long range radio.
But the issue here is typically electricity and weight relative to operational parameters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 12:50:06 No.2358427 Report

Quoted By: >>2358439 >>2358446 >>2358530

>>2358412
It amazes me that we’ve had smart phones for almost two decades and people who claim to go outdoors don’t know that these things can be used as a handheld GPS without a mobile signal.
>electricity
Yeah for longer hikes that becomes an issue. Stop pretending that everything you do is more than the 4 or 5 days you get out of a battery.
>weight
No argument there, except you’ve carried it in your pocket every day for the last decade. Still, it’s a 7oz luxury.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 13:16:15 No.2358439 Report

Quoted By: >>2358530

>>2358427
Nobody is denying that phones can't be used for gps, I posted a bunch of offline map resources.

But depending on where you are and how good your phone is you may or may not get a good enough GPS signal.
Many phones can't even hold a north bearing from GPS without local towers.
It is emphatically NOT good enough to simply get a general indication of direction and bearing.
Often my place indicator jumps wildly over 500m and doesn't even give a reliable north bearing, and when it's wrong it can be completely wrong.

Land nav is not just about getting somewhere, it's about planning, the speed and safety of your travel, it's about pathfinding and more besides.

Battery issues aren't just about the screen staying on, and many phone batteries don't last four days.
Your phone, battery pack, cable and solar charger are all fragile and any one of them breaking leaves you empty handed.
Cold weather can effect your battery life, humidity is a huge issue in the tropics.

I take my phone because it's great when I'm traveling by road, but as soon as I leave a road it becomes a liability

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 13:30:09 No.2358446 Report

Quoted By:

>>2358427
>Stop pretending that everything you do is more than the 4 or 5 days you get out of a battery.
Where do you think you're posting?
Am I lost, is this /k/?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 15:43:58 No.2358530 Report

Quoted By: >>2358554

>>2358427
>thinks cellphone GPS recivers are accurate without signal
>thinks all cellphones have the same quality GPS receiver and battery
It amazes me we've had smartphones for decades and yet people like you know almost nothing about how they are made or how they work.
>>2358439
Based navigater. All these points have been made repeatedly. Phone fags are irrational addicts who worship the tech and think maps are hard.
>Fuck planning! My phone does it all!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 16:38:05 No.2358554 Report

Quoted By:

>>2358530
>the GPS hardware on my Tracfone isn’t accurate and the battery life sucks
Not my problem nigger. Stop being poor.

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