/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #22618239

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Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:44:14 No.22618239 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>22618405 >>22622031 >>22622073 >>22622206 >>22622308 >>22623953 >>22628900 >>22633196

>Super Smash Bros runs at 60fps
>X/Y and ORAS often dip less than 20fps in battles

How did this happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:45:30 No.22618251 Report

Quoted By:

>inb4 Gamefreak can't code.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:46:39 No.22618259 Report

Quoted By: >>22618606

Needlessly high poly models.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:49:30 No.22618273 Report

Quoted By: >>22618285 >>22618335

Last night I tried using 3D a little bit during a battle and the game just becomes TOTALLY unplayable. Absolutely dog shit frame rate. What happened between XY and ORAS? I mean, the 3D was never great or anything but now it's unusable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:50:28 No.22618279 Report

Quoted By: >>22622471

SHE HAS NO CANON

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:51:23 No.22618284 Report

Quoted By: >>22622145

>gen 3 was 60fps starting in 2002
>13 years later the framerate is shit

When gen 4 released, I always felt that gen 3 was faster before I even knew about 30/60 fps.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:51:55 No.22618285 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618273
Even with the 3D off, some horde battles will slow the framerate to a fucking crawl. And something zooming in will cut the framerate.

Run into a Koffing horde in ORAS I dare you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:55:06 No.22618297 Report

Quoted By: >>22618314 >>22618506

One's a game that absolutely requires framerate in its base gameplay to function so more development time was put into optimizing this

Whereas the other game was more concerned with modeling 721 Pokemon, two complete overworld regions (one twice thanks to soar), attack animations, formes, megas, and somewhat general balance

I'd probably say one smash character is only the equivalent of three Pokemon in terms of time it takes to fully model and animate them completely. Why focus on framerate while some people still fondly remember Gen 4 and not the parts you can actually use in the next games, like designs and an attempt at balance?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:58:56 No.22618312 Report

Quoted By: >>22633291

Smash especially boots up its own version of the 3DS OS and shuts down most of the background applications just so it can go 60fps. If Pokemon did that too, it could reach better framerates.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:59:05 No.22618314 Report

Quoted By: >>22618347 >>22618360 >>22618364

>>22618297
SSB has more data on the cart then Pokemon.

Checkmate. There is no excuse for their fuck up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:02:08 No.22618335 Report

Quoted By: >>22618369

>>22618273
>and the game just becomes TOTALLY unplayable.
This isn't a fighter you know, the framerate doesn't impact the controls to make it unplayable.
It is annoying but it would take a lot to make an RPG unplayable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:04:03 No.22618347 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618314
SSB has a bunch of data for extraneous things like unmoving high quality trophies and a shitton of music.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:05:45 No.22618360 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618314
Actually there is. Smash Bros actually reboots the 3DS OS and uses a custom light weight OS instead on the cartridge.

Furthermore Smash character models use far fewer polygons and rely more on shaders and skimp out a lot of particle effects compared to a 6Gen pokemon battle.

Smash was the first 3DS game to utilize this modified OS. So we may see better frame rates in future pokemon games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:06:11 No.22618364 Report

Quoted By: >>22618384

>>22618314
Except that they had to make 721+ moving and the overworld models while the majority in Smash models are static trophies. That being said if I remember right Smash also cheats by lowering the model quality when in use but raising it when paused.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:06:50 No.22618369 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618335
Would you say watching the game lag and slop around would lead to an enjoyable gaming experience? It even holds up the gameplay. Why would you not turn the game off?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:08:52 No.22618384 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618364
Frame rate has nothing to do with the amount of data on the cart. It's the amount of polygons and what sort of shaders are you using. Smash does a lot of tricks to run at 60fps, the biggest one being they reboot the DS with a light weigh OS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:11:44 No.22618405 Report

Quoted By: >>22618421

>>22618239
GF can't into optimization

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:13:26 No.22618421 Report

Quoted By: >>22618461 >>22625487

>>22618405
Wrong, they decided to future proof this time and made the models extremely high poly to save time in the long run. Thing is though, they overestimated the power of the 3DS and it couldn't handle it without dropping frames like crazy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:24:31 No.22618461 Report

Quoted By: >>22618476

>>22618421
I still hear nothing but excuses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:26:37 No.22618476 Report

Quoted By: >>22618568

>>22618461
How is that an excuse?
GF made a shitty decision but it's not technically related to the optimization of the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:32:00 No.22618506 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618297
>I'd probably say one smash character is only the equivalent of three Pokemon in terms of time it takes to fully model and animate them completely
Then you'd be really, really wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:35:22 No.22618526 Report

Quoted By:

One is done by Gamefreak and one is done by Nintendo

One has a massive backlash if they do something that disrupts the gameplay experience like tripping of floaty fighters. One has a fanbase that will literally by a retiling of a GBA game for full price because they can get a digital figurine of one of the rarer characters to capture

One has a fanbase that will hack their system and make a modified fighter game with everything they want and have it catch on like wildfire. One has a fanbase of 8-12 year old and 20+ year old adult male manbabies that cry into a chinese pictureboard when their newest version of the same thing turns out to be shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:41:59 No.22618564 Report

Quoted By: >>22618600 >>22624604

Because SORA and Game Freak are polar opposites in terms of how they make games. Sakurai is anything but lazy, he puts so much effort into Smash, so much that he almost fucking died making it because of the work he put into it - just for the happiness of others. Meanwhile, if ORAS is a message of anything, it's that GameFreak don't put anywhere near as much effort into it, failing to include a lot of fan requesting features which were in HGSS such as following mons, just because they force themselves to have a fixed release date, and can't stand the uproar which would come into effect if they extended the release date.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:42:39 No.22618568 Report

Quoted By: >>22618635

>>22618476
Remember these are dumb console babies who don't know jack about performance issues

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:49:18 No.22618600 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618564
I would say that GF put as much effort as HAL did. The difference here is that Smash uses a modified operating system and low poly models where as GF did not have access to the new modified OS when development began, as well as using higher poly count models. In the future Pokemon is going to run smoother and have better anti aliasing and particle effects when new hardware is released at the cost of reusing previous assets.

If we get another portable smash they're going to have to redo all assets. To take advantage of new hardware.

Different resources, different design goals.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:50:48 No.22618606 Report

Quoted By: >>22618619 >>22618629 >>22618645 >>22618646

>>22618259
>high poly
>needless
pick one

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:52:51 No.22618619 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618606
They can be optimized.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:54:57 No.22618629 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618606
Ok, so here's the real question:

Do you want yearly pokemon games with actual updated meta every year for competitive pokemon battling?

Or do you want 90% of the player base to get bored after a year and wait another 3 for a new version to come out with all new assets?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:56:37 No.22618635 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618568
>console war bullshit
>>>/v/

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:58:34 No.22618645 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618606
Of course, how I silly am! All models should have 100 million tris, because why the fuck not? Right m80?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:58:36 No.22618646 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618606
For the 3DS? Yes. Though this will pay off in the long run since hey don't have to remake all the models.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 08:21:15 No.22622031 Report

Quoted By: >>22622215

>>22618239
because in smash bros during battle it uses low quality models but when you pause it switches to higher quality models. this allows for the game to run very smoth during game play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 08:34:33 No.22622073 Report

Quoted By: >>22623953

>>22618239
>people care about fps in a turn based strategy game where you only have to look at the top screen to see hp/what moves the opponent did
If you honestly care about fps when it literally 100% does not matter, just turn of battle animations. There. Problem solved.

D.I.O !KBgk.53lJg

D.I.O !KBgk.53lJg Sat 24 Jan 2015 08:43:22 No.22622091 Report

Quoted By:

GF made the models ridiculously high poly so that they can reuse them for the next couple of gens.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 09:00:51 No.22622145 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618284
See, the thing is, 60fps in 2D sprites is easy. 60fps in full 3D on a 3DS that can barely process it as it is (New 3DS aside), not even counting the obscenely high polygon count, is much more difficult.

As for Gen 4, it was the first gen to have 3D models, and the DS wasn't as advanced as the 3DS.

Now, I still have a suspicion that GF is limiting itself just so they can keep using these same high-polygon models for every future game ever, but I still don't like this whole debate in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 09:05:58 No.22622165 Report

Quoted By:

>GF does something hugely retarded like overload the number of polys the system can support
>result is a clusterfuck of low framerate even in 2D
>adult babies defend this action because GF can be lazy and reuse the same polys for years

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 09:17:32 No.22622206 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618239
SHE

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 09:19:45 No.22622215 Report

Quoted By:

>>22622031
That's not really a good excuse, though. If the game doesn't run properly because the models are too complicated, then simplify the models. Going from high quality to low quality models shouldn't take that much time or effort, right? And they can still use the high-quality models when better hardware comes out.

It's not just about hardware, though, because the games apparently still run like ass on the N3DS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 09:26:33 No.22622241 Report

Quoted By: >>22623965

>People not knowing a fucking thing about engineering or Gave Dev

Granted, pokemon could be better optimized, but not on the yearly release schedule. You can't compare SB and Pokemon technologically though, they are completely different games, and one is first party, one is third party, and that makes a difference.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 09:45:57 No.22622308 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618239
>Smash Bros has shitty models and is a fighting game, thus needing a decent fps count
>XYORAS have high poly models and are slow paced RPGs
Also your "often" doesn't mean "the whole battle". Stop trying to act like it does. Smash shits itself with Olimar too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 10:50:19 No.22622471 Report

Quoted By: >>22624000

>>22618279
SHE HAS NO NAME

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 15:29:08 No.22623582 Report

Quoted By:

They copy/pasted some of the models from other games/apps without any concern about how they would perform in a 3DS game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 16:21:21 No.22623953 Report

Quoted By: >>22624613

>>22618239

Because Game Freak are fucking useless and lazy faggots.

>>22622073

It isn't just battle animations that get hit by lag. Sorry for wanting my game that I paid fucking money for to work as it should. Stop being an apologist, you fag.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 16:22:44 No.22623965 Report

Quoted By: >>22624088 >>22624626

>>22622241

They're both first-party, you fucktard, I'm so sick of idiots like you who get this wrong but pretend to know all this shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 16:26:28 No.22623993 Report

Quoted By: >>22624100

>new game will be New 3DS compatible
>no slowdowns anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 16:27:34 No.22624000 Report

Quoted By:

>>22622471
THIS SHIT MEME IS ALWAYS THE SAME

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 16:38:27 No.22624088 Report

Quoted By: >>22624128

>>22623965
GameFreak isn't first party

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 16:40:07 No.22624100 Report

Quoted By:

>>22623993
The new game is going to be a sequel to Pokemon Rumble Blast that uses those proto-Amiibos from the WiiU game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 16:43:26 No.22624128 Report

Quoted By:

>>22624088
HAL laboratories isn't either then

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 17:43:43 No.22624604 Report

Quoted By: >>22624678 >>22628602 >>22628873

>>22618564
>Sakurai is anything but lazy
Holy fucking shit. Have you SEEN the latest Smash Bros? There's barely fucking anything in there and there's clones everywhere, he removed adventure mode and made Break the Targets EVEN SHITTIER SOMEHOW than Brawl. The music is also shit in comparison to Brawl that had a ton more arrangers and arrangements, I mean, SSB4 doesn't even have Nomura or Nintendo's fucking Koji Kondo. He's really lazy.
>just for the happiness of others
You mean pissing off everyone by removing favourites and adding a ton of clones including fucking Dark Pit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 17:44:44 No.22624613 Report

Quoted By:

>>22623953
>It isn't just battle animations that get hit by lag
What else? Show.
> for to work as it should.
But they can't work because they system they're on, that you paid for, is shit and can't handle anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 17:47:08 No.22624626 Report

Quoted By:

>>22623965
Neither of them are first party, GF is second-party because they aren't owned by Nintendo and only have a development contract, they can do whatever they want, that's why they've made iOS apps.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 17:54:16 No.22624678 Report

Quoted By:

>>22624604
ridleyfag detected

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 19:56:07 No.22625487 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618421
That doesn't excuse the lack of LOD models. You can use high-poly models and still run at a good framerate, especially since the game only renders at max 6 Pokemon and an almost completely flat background. And even then it often drops below 30fps in 2D with 2-4 Pokemon onscreen.

Smash has detailed stages that often change/scroll or summon bosses, multiple items, up to 4 fighters, and does it all in real-time with up to 4 computer AIs while maintaining a solid 60fps in 3D.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Jan 2015 01:41:20 No.22628602 Report

Quoted By: >>22629360

>>22624604
>Clones everywhere

There's literally only 3 added clones to Smash 4 and only two of them are new clones. All the others are from previous games. Also the only truly unique character to ever leave Smash was Snake, Mewtwo and Ice Climbers. Of those, we can assume that Snake was cut because of Pac-Man and Mega Man since he said he didn't want many third parties(with Snake there would have been 4), Ice Climbers were going to be in but were cut because of 3DS limitations(inb4 b-but rosalina, Rosalina works differently, Luma doesn't run off of an AI like Nana does) and Mewtwo is coming back.

Oh, I guess Pokemon Trainer too but that can be credited to the transformation mechanic getting cut, which was again because of 3DS limitations and of the three Charizard returned.

Typically, clones are the ones that leave each game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Jan 2015 02:14:47 No.22628873 Report

Quoted By:

>>22624604
>he removed adventure mode
How is this an issue?
Adventure mode was boring and in all honesty shit like Smash Run should have been there since the beginning of the game.

>made Break the Targets EVEN SHITTIER SOMEHOW than Brawl.
>designing character specific target maps and plotting the paths of the moving targets for difficulty for all 50 characters 52 including the other mii fighters (35 in Brawl)
Yeah no you're retarded, the guy already worked himself to the fucking bone jackass and you want him to do more work because you're unsatisfied with one feature?

LOLframerate !!evk9OcIfihY

LOLframerate !!evk9OcIfihY Sun 25 Jan 2015 02:17:34 No.22628900 Report

Quoted By: >>22628924

>>22618239
You're all fucking stupid.

You can't tell the difference between 15fps much less 60fps or 100billion fps.

You can't tell on any console or PC.
GTFO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Jan 2015 02:20:35 No.22628924 Report

Quoted By:

>>22628900
Did you really make a trip just to shitpost?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Jan 2015 02:59:05 No.22629251 Report

Quoted By: >>22629401

It's the poly count of the Pokémon in the games

In Smash, if you go into Training and have the camera set to Zoom, the characters have less detail until you pause it.

You can pause it with speed 1/2 R or 1/4 R, hold to resume and let go to pause iirc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Jan 2015 03:14:12 No.22629360 Report

Quoted By:

>>22628602
Roy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Jan 2015 03:17:53 No.22629401 Report

Quoted By:

>>22629251
We all know how they cheat in Smash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Jan 2015 16:13:18 No.22633146 Report

Quoted By: >>22633217

The New 3DS will fix the framerate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Jan 2015 16:19:31 No.22633196 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618239
>Crappy N64-quality models vs unnecessary Gamecube-quality models
>Fighting game vs RPG
>Minimal special effects vs fullscreen special effects
>4 year development time vs 1 year development time
>Using workarounds like cutting out OS functions vs behaving like a normal game

It's honestly fair enough.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Jan 2015 16:21:52 No.22633217 Report

Quoted By:

>>22633146
It would probably need a special update to even use the New 3DS's improved specs unfortunately. Programming for console/handheld is different to programming for PC; each calculation and process is specifically mapped to a part of the system resources, so when you play a Wii game on Wii U, it literally slows the processor down and blocks off part of the memory, otherwise it would run into glitches or run the game faster than it's meant to. New 3DS is exactly the same.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Jan 2015 16:36:09 No.22633291 Report

Quoted By:

>>22618312
I wish more games did this. The improved performance is worth the longer load up times in my opinion.

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