/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #39894282

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Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 04:34:47 No.39894282 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>39894287 >>39894453 >>39894630 >>39894798 >>39894854 >>39895855 >>39896768 >>39896801

Alright, after finally getting around to beating the definitive versions of each region (Johto twice because Crystal is different enough from HGSS), I can finally say that pokemon is fundamentally and objectively flawed as a game. Note that this is my opinion, not something I'm saying is objective fact.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 04:35:18 No.39894287 Report

Quoted By: >>39894294 >>39894854 >>39896768

>>39894282
Pokemon suffers greatly from a problem of artificial playtime inflation first and foremost and this can be seen as early as Kanto: the routes in Kanto are cluttered and unnecessarily convoluted for the purpose of extending gameplay time. Because the size of the maps were so small, the routes were designed around keeping the players there for as long as possible (see: Rock tunnel and any building with the teleporter gimmick). The problem with this is that, while there are technically more hours, these hours involve backtracking and trying to figure out where every path goes. Note that while this strategy isn't bad for optional paths, when the main progression of your story depends on finding a very specific route or very specific item (see: giving the guard a soda to pass to the next city) through trial and error, that isn't time well spent, that's time going through a poorly designed maze while thinking "Huh. I could be battling the gym leaders or fighting team rocket right now" while menial trainers pepper your path and if you want to restore your PP from fighting that juggler with three voltorbs, you have to backtrack all the way to the pokemon center to restore the PP.
While the routes in Johto have a much less cluttered design (with Ecruteak city being particularly well placed), Johto had a similar problem in a different area, and I'm sure you all are aware of this because it's a huge meme here: the level scaling. The leveling in Johto is artificially slowed in order to encourage playing the game more, promising that "with just a few more tentacruels/gravlers," you can level up and FINALLY beat that gym that's been giving you so much trouble. There's no substance to the grind, it's just performing the same action over and over again. While I know that this is a core mechanic of JRPGs, it feels much more forced in pokemon (and especially in Johto) because of the sheer lack of variety in enemy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 04:36:19 No.39894294 Report

Quoted By: >>39894808 >>39894854 >>39895864 >>39896768

>>39894287
Hoenn and Sinnoh were both close to peak region design, but both had some flaw that held them back from achieving their full potential: Hoenn was incredibly fun for the first 5 badges, and then the entire game feels like it crawls at half the pace the player was going at prior. This is worsened by the fact that as soon as you get Surf, backtracking becomes more egregious and difficult to ignore, exacerbated by the fact that backtracking coincidentally increases towards the end of the game (see: magma hideout). Sinnoh suffered from a similar problem with less backtracking and more slow pacing: the environment in Sinnoh is not very movement friendly with all of the sharp corners when biking, swamp/snowland, and of course, Mt. Coronet, which I don't believe I need to explain why this area was the peak of terrible area design: terrible layout combined with a disgusting amount of HMs.
Personal biases aside, Unova is a relatively well-done region: the routes may seem copy-pasted, but they're all clear and concise, giving off the same energy as a clean dining room: there's not a lot to see, but you can navigate everything easily and the functionality is unblocked. That being said, the flaws of the gen 5 games vastly outweighed the pros of the Unova region: the pokemon there are all either blatant clones of already-existing pokemon (specifically gen 1 pokemon) or are objectively better versions of already existing pokemon (see: Excadrill and Sandslash). The gyms there all feel like they don't have unique gimmicks and the entire composition of gen 5 feels like a patchwork of previous games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 04:59:27 No.39894453 Report

Quoted By:

>>39894282
Yeah Pokemon was always mediocre gameplay-wise. What carried it was the pokemon designs and the great soulful stuff about it like the music and fights like vs Red and vs N.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Bad Post Pikachu.png, 77KiB, 326x229

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 05:31:55 No.39894630 Report

Quoted By: >>39894686

>>39894282
I'm not saying you;re OBJECTIVELY wrong with your thesis but I must say that it has a lot of holes in it...

>-the routes in Kanto are cluttered and unnecessarily convoluted for the purpose of extending gameplay time.
If anything, Kanto has got to be the most straightforward region in the series. The routes were never really convoluted at all - none of the Pokemon Centers were that far off; sure there was Rock Tunnel, Route 13 and MAYBE Route 3 if you really wanna complain - but even then it was be more fitting to calls those route gameplay gimmicks or challenges more the GF artificiality making the game longer.
I will agree with you on the Tea sidequest though, that's just how RPGs were back in the day and in the day and I'm glad GF evolved from doing that again...

Moving to the subject of level grinding, I have to ask: What kind of team where you playing..?
Most people can agree that Pokemon is an easy game once you learn the type advantages - ESPECIALLY in Johto which is practically the easiest region in all of it's appearances. The only reason you should be grinding in a Pokemon game is if you're running a team of weak Pokemon or genuinely weren't prepared for the challenge. The only "grinding halt" I can think of is the Elite Four in the first 3 generations - which - Gamefreak actually did learn from this (although they did it a little too much in X&Y) and properly balanced the them so they weren't brick walls and actually made for a fun challenge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 05:39:42 No.39894686 Report

Quoted By: >>39896916

>>39894630
Since I had to go through Johto twice, I decided to do literally everyone's team for Crystal (Typhlosion, Togetic, Ampharos, Kadabra, Umbreon, and Red Gyrados) and then a team of the ones I actually liked for HGSS (Togekiss, Mamoswine, Heracross, Kingler, Ursaring and Kingdra). I found the jump in Crystal during the last few johto gym leaders annoying because I wanted to get just one more level to get access to some move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 05:58:20 No.39894798 Report

Quoted By:

>>39894282
Correct. Pokemon was never good. Fanworks are always better, from porn to actual games.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO I forgot this pokemopn's name.png, 6KiB, 666x538

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 06:00:39 No.39894808 Report

Quoted By:

>>39894294
>This is worsened by the fact that as soon as you get Surf, backtracking becomes more egregious and difficult to ignore, exacerbated by the fact that backtracking coincidentally increases towards the end of the game
By the time you have Surf most of the trainers on the way to cross Route 118 should be dealt with unless you went to explore 105 through 109. There even a shortcut you can do by USING Surf at Route 103 - and assuming you had some repels to get through 110's bottom area (or you took the cycling road) the amount of backtracking you have to do should take, like, 5 minutes at most. Even your example of the Magma hideout makes no sense as by the time they get twarted at Mossdeep you have Fly, meaning you go on over to Mt. Chimney and find their base which was HINTED AT when you first go down the Jagged Pass (Team Aqua's scandal at Slateport though was a bit out of the way, I can't remember if there was a hint telling you to go there or not so I'll give you that one...)
Sinnoh I will completely agree on only because Mt. Cornette is such a slug to go through on all side, it slows the game down immensely...

What I'm saying is: Every Generation has it's cons but saying every mistake is a direct flaw with Pokemon gameplay as a whole feels like you're trying to make a grandiose revelation the Pokemon franchise by bringing up issues about certain games that, while ARE indeed flaws, don't really bring us any closer to understanding the franchise rather than repeating the same singular problems many others have spotted before you...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 06:06:28 No.39894854 Report

Quoted By: >>39894868

>>39894282
>>39894287
>>39894294
>he needs to grind in Pokemon games

Wew

Understandable if you're autistic and wants your newly caught Pokemon to catch up with the rest of your team faster, but otherwise WEW.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 06:08:28 No.39894868 Report

Quoted By: >>39894878

>>39894854
Nobody on this board had a obsession of training every pokemon to the same level before challenging the gyms? This was such a obvious thing to do to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 06:09:59 No.39894878 Report

Quoted By:

>>39894868
I do it too but sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and let the right Pokemon handle the job...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 06:15:05 No.39894897 Report

Quoted By:

Yeah, every game out there is flawed in some way or another. Pokemon has its own flaws as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 10:29:30 No.39895855 Report

Quoted By: >>39896360

>>39894282
>Crystal is different enough from HGSS
Could you tell me more about this difference?
Im doing something similar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 10:31:50 No.39895864 Report

Quoted By:

>>39894294
>Personal biases aside, Unova is a relatively well-done region
Retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 12:43:51 No.39896360 Report

Quoted By:

>>39895855
First off, strategy pre-physical/special split makes a bigger difference than you'd think. Secondly, move availability is greatly increased in HGSS, meaning you'll have to get more resourceful with TMs and leveling up. Luckily, elemental punches are all on sale, so you can just smack one of those on any pokemon that hasn't learned FT/IB/TBolt. While the game layout isn't necessarily that different, the mechanical differences give the games a much different feel.
>39895864
Read the full post, please

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 13:55:02 No.39896768 Report

Quoted By: >>39896784

>>39894282
>>39894287
>>39894294
tldr: I hate actually exploring the maps. Give me routes and dungeons with a clear direction and no need to visit ever again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 13:57:49 No.39896784 Report

Quoted By: >>39896812

>>39896768
Please actually read

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 14:02:23 No.39896801 Report

Quoted By:

>>39894282
Why didn't you just post that XY is your favorite games if that was what you wanted to say all along?
>clear as fuck main paths
>barely any mandatory HM usage
>barely any backtracking
>no need for grinding, especially with Exp. Share on
>lots of old mons and not just new clones

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 14:04:31 No.39896812 Report

Quoted By:

>>39896784
I read your shitty posts, and you gave no reasons why backtracking is inherently bad nor why actually requiring the player to learn to navigate maps is either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 14:05:40 No.39896820 Report

Quoted By:

Nice blog, loser. Do you really expect me to read all these words this early in the morning?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 14:22:05 No.39896916 Report

Quoted By:

>>39894686
>literally everyones team from crystal
Where did you get this flawed information? Were you not aware that you can't get ampharos in crystal?

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