/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #53878600

>>53878600
They are bad game design. No other series ties field traversal to your combat moveslots. In other RPGs, they're just field abilities that you unlock that allow you to reach previously inaccessible areas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:14:38 No.53878632 Report

Quoted By: >>53878643

>>53878622
>8/24 moveslots (actually less because cut and defog are only needed a couple times) is unreasonable for traversing the environment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:16:39 No.53878643 Report

Quoted By: >>53878718

>>53878632
that's literally a third of the combat chucked out for shitty overworld roadblocks. even if every pokemon could learn every hm that'd still be unreasonable

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:16:57 No.53878645 Report

Quoted By: >>53878660 >>53878718 >>53878823

They also restrict teambuilding. I don't want a flying-type every run. Should've just been field abilities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:17:52 No.53878654 Report

Quoted By: >>53878658

>>53878600
HMs are bad because Timmy needs his dopamine and Timmy shouldn't be forced to make hard decisions about move selection that could have future consequences

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:18:48 No.53878658 Report

Quoted By: >>53878668 >>53878718

>>53878654
This would be a good argument if it was about the actual combat and not being able to get past four different types of rock tiles

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:18:51 No.53878659 Report

Quoted By:

HMs should've been gone and replaced by something better (say, what >>53878623 said) by gen 3 when there was no more conceivable technical barriers blocking it, and no gen 1/2 trading to have to deal with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:18:52 No.53878660 Report

Quoted By: >>53878670

>>53878645
You don't need a Flying-type every run.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:19:20 No.53878663 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
They aren't fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:19:38 No.53878665 Report

Quoted By: >>53878676

>>53878623
Bullshit.
In something like FF V field skills are connected to Geomancer class, which makes them quite a pain to use, especially that in-battle viability of Geomancer is questionable at best. Happily all of them are rather niche and not required to finish the game.
And this is my issue with HMs - not the mechanic itself, but how GF was utilizing it. Shit like Mt.Coronet and HGSS Mt.Silver should be considered a level design crime.

>>53878622
> NOOOOOOOOOOO! I MUST RUN THAT DAMN COVERAGE MOVE ON MY POKEMANZ THAT I'LL CLICK ONCE IN ENTIRE GAME!

lmao.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:20:06 No.53878668 Report

Quoted By: >>53878686

>>53878658
It is about the combat because people are too bad at a children's game to just swap out a battle member for an HM user.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:20:19 No.53878670 Report

Quoted By: >>53878679 >>53878698

>>53878660
If I want to fly, I do. Very few non-flying types learn Fly when it was an HM.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:20:43 No.53878675 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
I don't WANT a pokemon that can use Surf on my team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:21:04 No.53878676 Report

Quoted By: >>53879360

>>53878665
don't you only need one HM for mt silver? mt coronet needs like 7

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:21:09 No.53878678 Report

Quoted By:

how about this
you get a flying type
if its big enough it just has the ability to fly automatically, without any moves or locked shit. That's how it would literally work too.
Maybe that's too busted?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:21:10 No.53878679 Report

Quoted By: >>53878688 >>53878702

>>53878670
That's cool, but you don't HAVE to Fly. It's a luxury. Even then, it isn't hard to just swap for a Fly member.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:22:54 No.53878686 Report

Quoted By: >>53878714

>>53878668
What? You don't battle with HM users

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:22:59 No.53878688 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878679
>but you don't HAVE to Fly.
Normal people absolutely do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:24:00 No.53878698 Report

Quoted By: >>53878719

>>53878670
Flying is not required HM. It only makes backtracking more convenient and can help actually reduce amount of other HMs that you would otherwise need to go back from City B to Town A.
You trade ""being forced"" to use a Flying-type and one actually not that bad in game HM move to conserve time and other move slots. Sounds reasonable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:24:31 No.53878702 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878679
You do have to Fly in Shittnoh because backtracking would take four other HMs

In practice this just means you pull starly or bidoof out of your PC every time you want to go to a different town and then put it back in, it's an incredible annoyance

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:26:06 No.53878714 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878686
Why not?
Surf, Strength, Waterfall, Fly are completely viable in-game and even shit like Cut and Rock Smash do something, even if they are suboptimal.
Fact that you feel autistic urge to not use your HM users in battle is only your problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:26:19 No.53878718 Report

Quoted By: >>53878755 >>53878784 >>53879814 >>53880768

>>53878658
Every argument against HMs can be used to justify every trash change these games made for the sake of "convenience" in Gen 7-9. It's just an older complaint, there's fundamentally no difference between the grievances here. People just want their happy happy dopamine and they hate being inconvenienced in any way. They just don't want choices or roadblocks or anything that would make the game "uncomfy". They are NPCs of the highest order and don't have any real arguments.
Example:
>>53878623
>I need extra moveslots in a game that's always been pisseasy
The vast majority of moves are worthless anyway.
>>53878643
>a third of the combat
You're only clicking the STAB moves anyway, don't kid yourself.
>>53878645
>I NEED to have 6 battle-ready Pokémon on my team at all times or I'll explode

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:26:30 No.53878719 Report

Quoted By: >>53878724 >>53878733

>>53878698
Normal people don't like completely arbitrary inconveniences that don't add challenge to games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:27:24 No.53878724 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878719
>Normal people
Who cares what knuckledraggers think? Go be normal offline then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:27:25 No.53878725 Report

Quoted By: >>53878736

I have no idea how this thread continued past the 2nd post
/vp/ is just fucking retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:28:17 No.53878733 Report

Quoted By: >>53878738

>>53878719
Normal people don't bitch when they encounter non-significant inconvenience in children's first jrpg.
Don't call yourself normal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:28:25 No.53878736 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878725
How many loads of Game Fuck's feces have you choked down by now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:29:32 No.53878738 Report

Quoted By: >>53878741 >>53878753 >>53878777

>>53878733
>non-significant inconvenience
Then why are they there in the first place? Retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:29:57 No.53878741 Report

Quoted By: >>53878769

>>53878738
That's not really the own you think it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:31:09 No.53878753 Report

Quoted By: >>53878769

>>53878738
Because it makes you seethe and throw a childish tantrum on Mongolian Throat Singing Blog.
Just for that damn reason HMs are great.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:31:39 No.53878755 Report

Quoted By: >>53878768 >>53878777

>>53878718
Unironically have sex, incel.

You obsess over a retarded roadblock mechanic in a children's game made for babies that (S)MT in 1987 didn't need at amy point and still had a better gameplay involved without it.

>i-i-it makes the games easier!!
If you want to dilate so hard, beat the game with a single shitmon from the beginning to end then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:31:41 No.53878757 Report

Quoted By: >>53878768 >>53878789

>wanting 4 moves instead of 3 is bootlicking and shilling and bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:34:13 No.53878768 Report

Quoted By: >>53878774

>>53878755
You could be doing something with your life instead of larping as a normalfag but you have to be on here crying about HMs and bringing up games you never played as an argument.
>>53878757
That's what the CHOICE is there for. Crazy idea, I know. Game Freak used to give players choices.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:34:35 No.53878769 Report

Quoted By: >>53878777

>>53878753
Any challenge to your opinion is a tantrum? It must be nice to be so much more enlightened and calm.
>>53878741
Just pointing out your contradiction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:36:17 No.53878774 Report

Quoted By: >>53878786 >>53878796

>>53878768
okay, you could CHOOSE not to be able to fly on your bird (or whatever). Choice is indeed good. But why the fuck do you have to sacrifice a move slot for basic shit that doesn't need to BE a move?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:36:38 No.53878777 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878755
You're crying.
I can hear your tears falling on your keyboard. You're angry and have no other arguments besides acting like a retard.

>>53878738
> NOOOO! Why do I need to sacrifice one move slot in my pokemanz gaem!
> NOOOO! Why do I need to train my Pokemanz?
> NOOOO! Why Do I need to do anything in my pokemanz game to win?

I have a question: Can you wipe your ass after taking a shit or you call your mom to do it for you?

>>53878769
Being mentally challenged is not challenging any opinion, but continue embarassing yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:37:34 No.53878781 Report

Quoted By: >>53879412

Forcing you to sacrifice move slots on mons you want to use or to use mons you don't want to use outright is bad. I think the worst offender is Mt. Silver in Gen 4. You need 4 HMs to complete the dungeon, meaning that you need at least one HM slave, or have to slap on 4 moves across your team for the fight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:38:15 No.53878784 Report

Quoted By: >>53878825

>>53878718
>Every argument against HMs can be used to justify every trash change these games made for the sake of "convenience" in Gen 7-9.
Not at all. Just because they removed HMs at the same time they also removed all the level design and made the games play themselves doesn't mean they couldn't have actually designed levels without HMs. Correlation isn't causation, they're just shitty developers.
Obviously using HMs to explore a level is better than just not having anything to explore, and you'll never catch me defending the shit they churned out after HMs' removal. But that doesn't mean it was a great system that couldn't have been improved - other RPGs manage to have level design without letting overworld traversal consume a portion of the combat and Pokemon having an extra annoyance tacked on is incredibly unnecessary.

Like if you want choices or tradeoffs, why not just have consumable keys that open a roadblock when used. It's literally the exact same thing but without the annoyance of having to go through DPP's menus and PC save times.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:38:23 No.53878786 Report

Quoted By: >>53878798

>>53878774
Because as you would notice if your pull your head out of your ass, exploration and progression in Pokemon games up to gen 6 were connected to specific moves.
You needed move FLY for flight because that's how these games work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:38:30 No.53878789 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878757
There has literally never been good arguments for HMs besides idiotic 30-40 year old boomers conflating the series becoming shit in general with HMs being removed or changed as easier, I hated them back in 2000, I still hate them now on replaying the games.

They have never, and will never have an argument when you mention every aspect of the games that have gotten worse, or how exactly there is a reason to "learn surf" in SV if instead of the box legendary, they expect gamefreak of all possible developers to ever put in riding animations for every possible mon when they barely managed that for Let's Go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:38:42 No.53878791 Report

Quoted By: >>53878806

There is literally no point to HMs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:39:01 No.53878795 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
I think a better compromise would've been you being able to use field moves as long as you have a pokemon in a party that can learn it. I hate that they took them out of the games entirely.
Made Alola feel even more like a themepark ride than it already did

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:39:06 No.53878796 Report

Quoted By: >>53878819

>>53878774
Because it introduces said choice and if you want the convenience then you are forced to choose what to sacrifice. That is good design that makes the game more interesting. Ironically Pokémon games are more interesting when you have less battle-ready Pokémon available. I just consider HMmons to be like shouldermons you take around with you on your journey. Makes it a lot more enjoyable to have some low level shitter that actually has a great use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:39:20 No.53878798 Report

Quoted By: >>53878829 >>53878831 >>53878837

>>53878786
>You needed move FLY for flight because that's how these games work.
>you needed it because... you just needed it okay? That's what they wanted! You needed it for the sake of itself!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:40:49 No.53878806 Report

Quoted By: >>53878838

>>53878791
There is, it makes the games feel like an adventure where the character develops with their pokemon, it's you and your party against the elements.
From purely a mechanics perspective it forces players to expand their party and use pokemon they might not have used otherwise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:41:51 No.53878814 Report

Quoted By: >>53878826 >>53878863 >>53878891

okay so how else can we inconvenience the player for the sake of making the player do more things?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:42:26 No.53878819 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878796
>I just consider HMmons to be like shouldermons you take around with you on your journey
They did that in BDSP by taking it to the logical endpoint and just having Bidoof and Bibarel follow around and pop up for whenever you need them except for Defog and Fly.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO okay.png, 76KiB, 322x321

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:42:37 No.53878823 Report

Quoted By: >>53878836 >>53878846

>>53878645
>forcing me to use a flying-type than can learn fly is bad
>forcing me to use a flying-type with some innate ability to fly is good

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:42:47 No.53878825 Report

Quoted By: >>53878835

>>53878784
>other RPGs manage to have level design without letting overworld traversal consume a portion of the combat
Why is this a problem? How is it a "portion of the combat"?
>and Pokemon having an extra annoyance tacked on is incredibly unnecessary.
No, it isn't, because it isn't really annoying. It's the fucking game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:43:00 No.53878826 Report

Quoted By: >>53878833

>>53878814
remove repels so that you now have to fight random encounters you wouldn't have gotten to experience otherwise

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:43:30 No.53878829 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878798
I've played Shitnova, and I would never play any Bort ""game"" without fly, cancerous circle region.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:43:41 No.53878831 Report

Quoted By: >>53878945

>>53878798
Ok, now as I said - pull your tranny head out of your unwashed ass.

Fly is HM because of MECHANICAL CONSISTENCY. There was no reason to introduce super special game mechanic letting you fly for the sake of it when there was entire section for moves with on-field effects.

The only other option would be making Fly just a TM with field effect like Dig, but considering how easy it would be for player to softlock themselves by removing it I feel like it's even more retarded idea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:43:56 No.53878833 Report

Quoted By: >>53878843

>>53878826
I wish, I'd love to see all the zoomzooms cry about having to actually engage with the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:44:01 No.53878835 Report

Quoted By: >>53878849

>>53878825
>it can't be bad because it's pokemon
Grow up.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:44:06 No.53878836 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878823
Yes.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:44:08 No.53878837 Report

Quoted By: >>53878864

>>53878798
You don't literally need Fly to get around the map, but it's very obvious that the games are designed around having fast travel in the latter halves of their stories. You're being fucking asinine. You don't have an argument, you have a gotcha built upon surface level knowledge and a middle school grasp of logic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:44:08 No.53878838 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878806
>There is, it makes the games feel like an adventure where the character develops with their pokemon, it's you and your party against the elements.
It's a simple turn-based RPG where you walk from town to town beating up the local boss, let's not go crazy here.
>From purely a mechanics perspective it forces players to expand their party and use pokemon they might not have used otherwise.
You just pull a slave out of a box when you need it and then never revisit location that make you use it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:45:02 No.53878843 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878833
Post elo

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:45:28 No.53878846 Report

Quoted By: >>53878869

>>53878823
It was poor word choice. I meant using a menu for field moves that unlocks as you get gym badges.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:45:40 No.53878849 Report

Quoted By: >>53878924

>>53878835
>it can't be bad because it's pokemon
No, but if you have an issue with playing the game you'd absolutely feel right at home with nugen autobattle and PC available everywhere. On top of the myriad of other ways they "cut the annoyance" of playing the damn game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:46:46 No.53878863 Report

Quoted By: >>53878872

>>53878814
you can no longer weaken wild pokemon or use stronger pokeballs, so now you have to engage with the catching mechanic more

you also can't run or use the bike anymore, so now you can engage with the world design instead of just zooming past everything

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:46:56 No.53878864 Report

Quoted By: >>53878883

>>53878837
>but it's very obvious that the games are designed around having fast travel
Not really. Maybe by Gen 3, sure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:47:27 No.53878869 Report

Quoted By: >>53878897 >>53880754

>>53878846
> Using menu for field moves bad.
> Using menu for special ability to fly not connected to moves good.

Jesus, shut up. End your stupidity. You make no fucking sense. Your parents are embarassed by what they created.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Zorak_large.jpg, 16KiB, 360x202

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:47:35 No.53878870 Report

Quoted By: >>53878878 >>53878885

This website is getting stupider by the fucking moment.
Fuck your shibboleths and obsession with making shit as tedious as possible (While ignoring the games are piss easy regardless)
Fuck your contrarianism, think for yourselves instead of just doing the opposite of what you think normies like

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:48:09 No.53878872 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878863
Now you're getting it. Maybe if you hate the game so much that you'd rather skip the actual game, you should just play something else or watch the story on YouTube like all your peers do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:48:49 No.53878878 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878870
it's sinnohbabbies insecure about their shitty game because people on the internet don't like it. clearly shitting themselves with rage over the most asinine shit imaginable will change that

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:49:14 No.53878882 Report

Quoted By: >>53878904 >>53878932

Not a single person arguing for HMs is arguing in good faith and you're all taking the bait.
No one actually misses HMs.
No one misses dedicating a party slot to Bibarel/Tropius

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:49:15 No.53878883 Report

Quoted By: >>53878904

>>53878864
Dude, all the way back in Gen 1 you very much want to use fly. Are you seriously suggesting the intended gameplay after beating Koga is to walk all the way back to Vermillion City, through Diglett's Cave, down through Viridian and Pallet Town, and to Cinnabar?
Also, continuing my thesis, they literally give you Fly on your way to Fuschia. It's very much intentional.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:49:24 No.53878885 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878870
>think for yourselves *by doing what I think instead

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:49:58 No.53878891 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878814
cutscenes and tutorials are are now unskippable so that you have to engage with the story and writing

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:50:51 No.53878897 Report

Quoted By: >>53878919 >>53884406

>>53878869
I genuinely have no idea why you're so angry about this. There is no reason that the combat needs to be tied to the world traversal. It's not interesting, it just forces the use of slaves in specific locations and discourages ever returning to previous locaitons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:50:58 No.53878898 Report

Quoted By: >>53878965

I've noticed only shitskins dislike HMs. Why is this always the case?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:51:19 No.53878904 Report

Quoted By: >>53878921

>>53878883
>Vermillion City, through Diglett's Cave, down through Viridian and Pallet Town, and to Cinnabar
You did not play a Kanto game lmao
>>53878882
>If I say it isn't good faith, then it just is, and I win
Such jewish argumentative tactics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:51:36 No.53878911 Report

Quoted By: >>53878928

>hms are bad
>noooooo men dancing for no reason are bad
>level design is bad noooooo maps are boring without surf areas, waterfalls, bonus areas accessible with rock smash or cut or climb or whatever

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:52:07 No.53878917 Report

Quoted By: >>53878948 >>53878965 >>53879045

The Sinnohfag hasn't responded to the anon who mentioned using consumable keys. It's not something that a Pokemon game has done before so it's beyond the range of his understanding.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:52:17 No.53878919 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878897
That is because HMfags are just doing it to be contrarian and people who believe that tedium == difficulty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:52:28 No.53878921 Report

Quoted By: >>53878930 >>53879356

>>53878904
>You did not play a Kanto game lmao
Yes I know you can go through the Seafoam Islands, but most people just go through Pallet Town because the route to the south is shown to you early on and people are curious about it once you unlock surf.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:52:47 No.53878924 Report

Quoted By: >>53878942

>>53878849
>nugen autobattle
What an absolute surprise the retarded, mentally deficient boomer crying for his HMs hasn't actually played SV.

For anyone else itt, SV autobattling (unsurprisingly) doesn't really work to replace battling, you get far less experience, and can still lose hp if it's not type advantaged (to where it can't auto at 1hp anymore). But the biggest issue is the ai is stupid and while run around to fight a few, then often stop altogether. Have had to personally babysit outbreaks because even in an intentionally condensed cetoddle spawn, my fighting type still would stop as well if they were a few feet too far away from them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:53:18 No.53878928 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878911
>>53878609

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:53:30 No.53878930 Report

Quoted By: >>53878940

>>53878921
Then why the fuck are you bringing it up?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:53:47 No.53878932 Report

Quoted By: >>53878953 >>53879366

>>53878882
I do genuinely miss HMs, but like I said they should've been improved rather than discarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:54:35 No.53878940 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878930
I really don't know what you're trying to say here. I think you've gone too far with pretending to be retarded and you've given yourself brain damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:54:54 No.53878942 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878924
Holy shit, someone that bought scat and vomit. Who knew people crying about HMs were the ones that slurp up the newest feces platter Game Freak shits out for them? Not me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:55:03 No.53878945 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878831
>tranny for no reason
mindbroken

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:55:16 No.53878948 Report

Quoted By: >>53878961

>>53878917
BDSP has HMs and streamlines them. It's also the only good 3D game besides PLA of course. Based BDSP!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:56:12 No.53878953 Report

Quoted By: >>53878962 >>53879269

>>53878932
How would you improve them? How would you improve them to a point where it wouldn't just be easier and less clunky to make them key items? Genuinely curious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:57:14 No.53878961 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878948
BDSP didn't change the world in any way and there's no meaningful choice behind activating an HM. There's literally no point in having rocks and trees in the way if there's no possible situation in which the player will not be able to clear them

it's the worst of both worlds

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:57:20 No.53878962 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878953
NTA but I would just do something similar to rangers where certain mons have the HM built in and once you reach the badge for it you can use it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:57:22 No.53878963 Report

Quoted By: >>53879005 >>53879055 >>53879847

Why can't fire-types just burn down those tiny trees?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:57:54 No.53878965 Report

Quoted By: >>53878978

>>53878898
Shitskins get the angriest when their toys are taken away and are the biggest mental children.
>>53878917
Because consumable keys have nothing to do with the concept of these games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 18:59:35 No.53878978 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878965
>Because consumable keys have nothing to do with the concept of these games.
what? all the way in gen 1 you had to give the guard a drink and play the pokeflute for snorlax

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 19:03:29 No.53879005 Report

Quoted By: >>53879022 >>53879041

>>53878963
there was only 300bytes of memory left in the OG cartriges not sure about the other game's excuses, especially beyond the GBA (Especially if they have enough memory)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 19:05:27 No.53879022 Report

Quoted By: >>53879041 >>53879053

>>53879005
Memory isn't an issue, HGSS is nearly twice the size of DP despite performing better and being on the exact same hardware

The real answer is that Pokemon just got really lazy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 19:08:25 No.53879041 Report

Quoted By: >>53879105

>>53879005
Z80 Assembly has a max opcode size of 4 bytes, meaning that they could accommodate at least another 75 instructions, with proper outlining and refactoring, it's not unrealistic to say it's possible on a technical level

>>53879022
Flash cards are a completely different animal from an EEPROM like what cartridges had

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 19:09:06 No.53879045 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878917
It's a worthless argument that can be used to justify the removal of anything and everything.
>hypothetically things could be better so it's ok GF is tossing out this thing even though GF will also never add in the things I think are better as a replacement

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 19:10:12 No.53879053 Report

Quoted By: >>53879068

>>53879022
No it's more that you could ask that question to a million different things in these games because they're so heavily abstracted. Not that the questions aren't worth asking, but "why can't ground types drill rocks" could go on forever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 19:10:27 No.53879055 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878963
>Y-You just can't ok!?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 19:12:25 No.53879068 Report

Quoted By:

>>53879053
They could have definitely expanded on it if they wanted to focus on the adventure part of the games as opposed to the battling. It doesn't have to be all-encompassing, but it would have helped flesh things out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 19:17:00 No.53879105 Report

Quoted By:

>>53879041
The problem is that gamefuck was insanely bad at programming during gen 1/2
gen 3 and beyond they were still bad, but by that point the consoles were strong enough that it didn't really matter.
Gen 3 would've been a perfect time to do something, given the lack of trading from gen 1/2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 19:44:21 No.53879269 Report

Quoted By: >>53884702

>>53878953
Three things to have in mind, you can take whichever you like the most or combine them
1-make it so all you need to use an HM is the corresponding badge and a mon in your team who can learn the move
2-buff HMs and rework the effects to raise them to the level of Surf in terms of utility and use.
3-make new HMs of different types and alternate new types of roadblocks, so it isn't always that you need a surfer, a rock smasher, a cut user, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:02:42 No.53879356 Report

Quoted By: >>53879370

>>53878921
You actually can't go through the Seafoam Islands before reaching Cinnabar. You have to go through the western entrance first, or else the eastern one is a dead end. So you were right the first time, he's just retarded.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1682340393274647.jpg, 355KiB, 703x554

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:02:44 No.53879357 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
>you can overwrite HMs anywhere, anytime
>there are overworld items that can be acquired through quests that serve the same purpose as the HMs, like in Pokemon Infinite Fusion
>increased attack power and secondary effects, so they are still viable
there, a game mechanic that doesn't get in the way of the player's freedom in any shape or form and ties much better to the gameplay

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:02:55 No.53879360 Report

Quoted By: >>53879421

>>53878676
In GSC yes, but in HGSS you need 4 to fully explore it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:03:35 No.53879364 Report

Quoted By:

HMs do nothing that couldn't have been done in better ways, and actively harm teambuilding because the game limits at least 1, usually 2 of your 6 members to a few gamefreak-approved choices required to complete the game.
Unfortunately the timing of better systems being introduced coincidentally lined up with other issues forming, but people confuse the two to assume that means HMs were actually good and not garbage we tolerated because there was no alternative.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:03:59 No.53879366 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878932
discarding them is the improvement. They contribute literally nothing to the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:04:31 No.53879370 Report

Quoted By: >>53879440 >>53879454 >>53879603

>>53879356
Oh okay, so I wasn't fucking up. Is it in the Johto games where you can go through Seafoam or has he gaslit me with his shitty posts?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:13:21 No.53879412 Report

Quoted By: >>53879424

>>53878781
Actually, Sinnoh's Victory Road is worse. You need 5 to make it to the Pokemon League, so even a dedicated HM Slave is not enough by itself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:13:40 No.53879415 Report

Quoted By: >>53880641

>Metroid would be better if you had to go back to the save station and swap equipment to deal with certain obstacles, actually
>Zelda would be better if you had to go back to the shrine and swap rune abilities to deal with certain obstacles, actually
imagine being retarded and desperate enough to cock slurp the older games that you delude yourself into thinking hms are a remotely good mechanic

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:15:23 No.53879421 Report

Quoted By:

>>53879360
you only need rock climb to get to red
in gen 2 you only "need" flash

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:16:04 No.53879424 Report

Quoted By:

>>53879412
I've genuinely erased all memories of Sinnoh VR because it caused me a lot of trouble as a kid. The middle gauntlet was pretty nuts for me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:18:12 No.53879440 Report

Quoted By:

>>53879370
You can go through Seafoam on both sides in the Kanto games. In the Johto games the eastern side is roadblocked at first

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:20:33 No.53879454 Report

Quoted By:

>>53879370
I think you can go through from either side in HGSS, and in GSC you can just surf right past it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:47:37 No.53879603 Report

Quoted By: >>53879613

>>53879370
You just believe anything you're told, don't you? Yes, you can go through Seafoam.
>has he gaslit me with his shitty posts?
You type like a woman. I'm right here, faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:49:34 No.53879613 Report

Quoted By: >>53879619

>>53879603
>You just believe anything you're told, don't you?
My memory of kanto isn't super great, so yeah I'm trying to patch the gaps by listening to other people. Would you prefer I just double down on my vague recollection of things and ignore everyone talking to me?
>You type like a woman. I'm right here, faggot.
Fuck off, nigger

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:51:10 No.53879619 Report

Quoted By: >>53879625

>>53879613
You clearly ignore anyone that goes against your own narrative, that's for sure, even when it's easily searchable information.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 20:52:51 No.53879625 Report

Quoted By:

>>53879619
>You clearly ignore anyone that goes against your own narrative, that's for sure
You are so mad that you're delusional, how can you genuinely get this upset at people talking about HMs?
Let's also not forget that you started this reply chain by trying to assert that Fly is completely optional and the games are totally designed to be traversed on foot the whole way through.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 21:20:23 No.53879814 Report

Quoted By: >>53879914

>>53878718
>You're only clicking the STAB moves anyway, don't kid yourself

Wrong, I love to run offensive attacks of various typings on my Pokemon. It makes for a party that can handle just about anything.

I've hated HMs for that reason since the original Gold & Silver.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1679602071191220.gif, 2MiB, 656x368

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 21:25:09 No.53879847 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878963
the "lore reason" would be that you can accidentally set the other trees and bushes on fire as well so it's much safer to just have a pokemon chop the tree that's in your way rather than asking a fire pokemon to burn it and risk a huge fire happening

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 21:35:08 No.53879914 Report

Quoted By:

>>53879814
Mons shouldn't be allowed to have so much coverage anyway, it breaks the game even harder when most mons will be able to hit supereffective on anything they want.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 21:47:56 No.53879983 Report

Quoted By:

There is NOTHING wrong with HMs.
The ONLY problem with HMs is that they take up a move slot. If you had a fifth slot only for HM field moves, it would totally be ok.
>B-BUT I WANT TO USE THE SAME SIX MONS THE ENTIRE GAME AND MY SCYTHER CAN'T LEARN SURF
MOTHERFUCKER YOU ARE GOING OVER THE OCEAN

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 21:49:23 No.53879992 Report

Quoted By: >>53879997

>>53878600
>HMs are bad again....because?
because i'd rather cut myself than teaching cut to my mon or some HM slave
>But-
shut the fuck up i don't give a shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 21:50:28 No.53879997 Report

Quoted By: >>53880007 >>53880057

>>53879992
Shut up if you can't reason you fucking monkey.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 21:51:23 No.53880007 Report

Quoted By:

>>53879997
based

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 21:56:47 No.53880043 Report

Quoted By: >>53880050

>>53878600
What HMs are supposed to be
>Player has to make decision for what moves a Pokemon learns in order to make progress
What actually happens with HMs
>Player catches an HM slave in order to progress. Putting them in a box when they’re not needed, and taking them out when they’re needed. Aside from Surf, Waterfall, Strength, and Fly, which are good for ingame play, there is not a single reason to ever use HMs on your actual teammates. Cut, Rock Smash, ect are all terrible moves even for ingame playthroughs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 21:57:57 No.53880050 Report

Quoted By: >>53880069

>>53880043
That's a party decision though, how is that not an obvious intent?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 21:58:39 No.53880057 Report

Quoted By: >>53880076

>>53879997
i don't need a reason when they just suck balls

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:00:01 No.53880069 Report

Quoted By: >>53880087

>>53880050
Of course it's the intent. It's just a shit intent because it's not engaging in the slightest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:00:52 No.53880076 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880057
Why are you still pretending to be human? Go on and ook eek, you're just an unthinking animal.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO nerdbug.png, 1MiB, 1504x1127

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:01:54 No.53880084 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:02:25 No.53880087 Report

Quoted By: >>53880092 >>53880125

>>53880069
As if a zoomer would have any inkling of engaging game design. Also nice way to backpedal from your original argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:03:13 No.53880092 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880087
zoomers only have secondhand information

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:08:24 No.53880125 Report

Quoted By: >>53880148 >>53880653

>>53880087
>As if a zoomer would have any inkling of engaging game design
What is engaging about
"ok I need to fast travel so I'm going to just perpetually leave this lv2 Starly on my team"?

>Also nice way to backpedal from your original argument.
That was literally my first post in the thread. I don't have an original argument.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO HMs are stupid.jpg, 730KiB, 920x3439

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:10:27 No.53880138 Report

Quoted By: >>53880153

>>53878600
because they're stupid just like (You)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:12:17 No.53880148 Report

Quoted By: >>53880161

>>53880125
>What is engaging about "ok I need to fast travel so I'm going to just perpetually leave this lv2 Starly on my team"?
It's cute that a useless little Starly gets to have a place on the team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:13:53 No.53880153 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880138
This is just an argument for moves in general being stupid, you know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:15:09 No.53880161 Report

Quoted By: >>53880165

>>53880148
Why wouldn't it get to have a place on the team?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:16:02 No.53880165 Report

Quoted By: >>53880176

>>53880161
But it does, since it can use Fly

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:18:06 No.53880176 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880165
ok? and? What about that is engaging as opposed to just being able to select Fly from a menu like in Gen 7?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:28:59 No.53880244 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
They waste a move slot on a move that's probably pretty shit just to cut a tree or break a rock to get the next area when they can just not be there or have a way to do the same things without taking up a moveslot or having to have an HM slave.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 22:30:56 No.53880256 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
Because the moves suck. If they were all as good as Surf and Waterfall, or even Strength, they would be fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 23:32:18 No.53880641 Report

Quoted By:

>>53879415
>>Metroid would be better if you had to go back to the save station and swap equipment to deal with certain obstacles, actually
>>Zelda would be better if you had to go back to the shrine and swap rune abilities to deal with certain obstacles, actually
That's true yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 23:34:38 No.53880653 Report

Quoted By: >>53880665

>>53880125
>"ok I need to fast travel so I'm going to just perpetually leave this lv2 Starly on my team"?
You made a decision to play as optimally as possible, that's engaging.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 23:35:54 No.53880665 Report

Quoted By: >>53880727

>>53880653
Nothing about it is engaging because it’s a basic bitch “”decision”” that requires no thought. You may as well argue clicking on the Fly button in SM’s menu is engaging.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 23:45:14 No.53880727 Report

Quoted By: >>53880735

>>53880665
That's not engaging, nothing was sacrificed, nothing was thought out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 23:47:03 No.53880735 Report

Quoted By: >>53880798

>>53880727
there's little thought involved in going into the pc, dragging out a level 2 bird, flying, and putting it back in, it just takes ten times longer

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 23:50:37 No.53880754 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878869
it's like you're just trying to argue with him instead of actually make a point or convince anyone to agree with you

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 23:53:34 No.53880768 Report

Quoted By: >>53881176

>>53878718
>Every argument against HMs can be used to justify every trash change these games made for the sake of "convenience" in Gen 7-9. It's just an older complaint, there's fundamentally no difference between the grievances here. People just want their happy happy dopamine and they hate being inconvenienced in any way. They just don't want choices or roadblocks or anything that would make the game "uncomfy". They are NPCs of the highest order and don't have any real arguments.

You're a dumbass. HMs are a shit way to implement what you're talking about, and getting rid of them to implement a better traveling solution is the right fix. Pokemon Legends Arceus did it right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 May 2023 23:58:43 No.53880798 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880735
Yes there is. I could leave it in the PC, or put the HM on one of my team members, or just hold on to the slave and risk having a weaker member. Several options right there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:06:55 No.53880848 Report

Quoted By: >>53880899

>Unlock HM for fly
>Just need a flying type move on a flying pokemon
>Fearow with wing attack?
>You can fly
There i fixed HMs

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:12:06 No.53880865 Report

Quoted By: >>53880902 >>53880937

>coverage moves
>in a basic playthrough
>you will click it 3 times in the entire run
>but i planned all 4 moves on all 6 mons to perfectly destroy all the elite 4 members designed for 8 year olds!!!

it's mental illness

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:20:17 No.53880899 Report

Quoted By: >>53880935 >>53881051

>>53880848
>need to retardedly keep fearow in party 24/7
you didn’t fix anything

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:20:36 No.53880902 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880865
The regular trainers in Gen 9 have coverage moves on their mons so you can't just bank on Super Effective vs Ineffective to solve all of your problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:24:48 No.53880921 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878622
Just make the HMs actually good moves like surf and waterfall are

Then the only problem is how it affects team composition (aka you need a flying type on your team for fly)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:28:55 No.53880935 Report

Quoted By: >>53880939

>>53880899
I mean do you want a Vileplume to fly you around or something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:29:05 No.53880937 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880865
>Having options for what move to use in battle isn't necessary
>Having options for how long it takes to fast travel is necessary
Maybe Pokemon just isn't for you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:29:38 No.53880939 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880935
No I want a system like in gen 7+ where I don’t need to use a party slot period.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:32:18 No.53880949 Report

Quoted By: >>53880952

>>53878600
Because most of them are dogshit.
If they were all on the quality of Surf and Strengthm then no one would complain about them. Cut is outclassed the moment you get it. Flash had 70% accuracy as an HM for some asinie reasoning, making it outclassed by every other accuracy reducing move. Whilrpool did no damage and no chip. Rock Smash was not only fairly weak, but had an unreliable secondary effect. Dive was just a worse Waterfall, which was a worse Surf prior to Gen 4. Defog was useless as an HM as it was only used in two places and only lowering evasiveness is useless. Rock Climb was just a worse Return when Return started getting easily accessible.

It's funny because many of these moves eventually got buffed, but they stopped being HMs (excluding remakes).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:33:05 No.53880952 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880949
> If they were all on the quality of Surf and Strengthm then no one would complain about them
I would.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO im out.png, 242KiB, 346x409

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:34:23 No.53880959 Report

Quoted By: >>53884689

>>53878600
>Full team
>Switch a Pokemon with Bibarel from the PC in order to use Rock Climb
HM's are ass, and they're ass in other RPG's like XC2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:45:08 No.53881002 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
I shouldn't have to catch monsters in a monster catching game

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 00:56:51 No.53881051 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880899
>restrictions are... le bad!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 01:01:18 No.53881074 Report

Quoted By:

>Strong Pokémon
>Weak Pokémon
>That is only the selfish perception of people
>Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites
>As long as at least one of their favorites can use Surf

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 01:22:32 No.53881176 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880768
If by "better" you mean "thing that doesn't make me fly into a s oyrage" then sure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 01:23:59 No.53881187 Report

Quoted By:

This entire thread is bait and it's honestly rather successful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 01:24:19 No.53881189 Report

Quoted By: >>53881224 >>53882480

>AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHH ME NO LIKE THING
There. There's the entire argument against HMs. Absolutely no one in this thread has provided an argument other than "Ugh, the game makes me DO things I don't like!".

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 01:31:23 No.53881224 Report

Quoted By: >>53882427

>>53881189
HMs and similar move limiting things don't work in 3D environments without massively restricting the player's mobility. More often than not, that level of restriction that has to be magicked away by a specifically called out move that you pull up from a menu would just break the gameplay loop and take you out of whatever you're doing. Therefor, a more accommodating movement enhancement mechanic is needed to simultaneously restrict a player's ability to access locations and unlock locations for later. Since we're reconsidering how movement is restricted already, we may as well consider the nature of HMs themselves: they're basically utility items competing for move slots in your Team, and their presence immediately restricts how much you can train your pokemon team while traveling the world map. It's a cumbersome restriction that resulted in players creating HM Slaves to occupy a near permanent spot on your team when not in town, and it was begging for innovation to create a better way for players to move around the map without subtracting from the core gameplay loop of figuring out the best combinations when you have monsters that can only know four moves at any time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 01:33:17 No.53881226 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
I play monofire so I can't surf.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 05:45:52 No.53882427 Report

Quoted By:

>>53881224
I'm starting to think OP was actually looking for an honest answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 06:02:28 No.53882480 Report

Quoted By:

>>53881189
>it's in the games therefore it is good and correct
>except for these specific games, the things in these are bad and wrong, because they are newer

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 06:14:42 No.53882515 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
Cut should have 70 base power + high crit chance
Fly and Dive should have 100 base power
Surf and Waterfall are fine
Strength should have 100 base power
Flash should drop accuracy 2 stages
Rock Smash should always drop DEF
Whirlpool should be a water-type Magma Storm
Defog can't be fixed for single-player campaign, sorry

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 14:23:08 No.53883823 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
The only bad thing about that is no fast way to scroll to the bottom

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 14:24:25 No.53883832 Report

Quoted By: >>53884432

>>53878600
Because they are obligatory moves that limit team variety in the game where team building is literally the only fun thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 14:29:07 No.53883853 Report

Quoted By: >>53884112 >>53884315

>>53878609
>purely a coincidence
I'd argue HMs being removed are just a byproduct of the laziness in level design. No need to make HM centric areas if theres no HMs. So it's no coincidence, it's just killing two birds with one stone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 15:23:16 No.53884112 Report

Quoted By: >>53884501

>>53883853
Then why does LGPE have more complex level design than BW?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 16:01:47 No.53884315 Report

Quoted By:

>>53883853
This explanation makes literally zero sense. Creating entirely new movement options that require accommodating a seventh Pokemon that does not battle is a much more complex design approach.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 16:20:54 No.53884406 Report

Quoted By: >>53884484 >>53884684

>>53878897
>There's no reason for game design to interconnect different elements of gameplay
Field moves inherently make Pokémon more whole beings that inhabit the Pokémon world rather than just fight machines, and not in some faggy way like grooming or camping.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 16:24:47 No.53884432 Report

Quoted By: >>53884468

>>53883832
>Team building constraints make team building less fun

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 16:31:18 No.53884468 Report

Quoted By:

>>53884432
It's not constrains, it's obligatory things that are same on every single team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 16:35:41 No.53884484 Report

Quoted By:

>>53884406
>A pokemon that's only used for battle is just a fight machine
>A pokemon that's used for battle AND cutting trees is a whole being
So a chainsaw is a "whole being" to you? All HMs do is give your pokemon two or more functions instead of one; acting like that's the same thing that grooming and camping do is cope of the highest caliber.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 16:38:36 No.53884501 Report

Quoted By: >>53884530

>>53884112
Well for starters it's a remake of Gen 1. Secondly, Gen 5 is when the decline started.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 16:44:37 No.53884530 Report

Quoted By: >>53884704

>>53884501
> Well for starters it's a remake of Gen 1
But LGPE doesn’t have HMs.
> Secondly, Gen 5 is when the decline started.
But Gen 5 has HMs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 17:02:11 No.53884606 Report

Quoted By: >>53885528

>>53878623
Golden Sun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 17:20:55 No.53884684 Report

Quoted By:

>>53884406
>and not in some faggy way like grooming or camping.
I like HMs and I like having the possibility to groom and interact with my pets, both are good game design because they give importance to your pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 17:21:56 No.53884689 Report

Quoted By:

>>53880959
But that's not how you are supposed to use HMs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 17:24:01 No.53884702 Report

Quoted By: >>53884790

>>53879269
No one ever replied to these proposals to make HMs better, if GF had done this instead of getting rid of HMs it would have made for better design.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 17:24:15 No.53884704 Report

Quoted By: >>53884824

>>53884530
The game LGPE is based off of had HMs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 17:38:10 No.53884790 Report

Quoted By:

>>53884702
Because it's the same as "getting rid of HM" - you don't have to teach it to pokemon, you only need a badge and a pokemon on team.

You'll notice that if you take your idea and make one step further it'll be replacing HM with other more varied kinds of out of combat interactions with environment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 17:45:20 No.53884824 Report

Quoted By:

>>53884704
But LGPE itself doesn’t have HMs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 18:09:25 No.53884959 Report

Quoted By:

>need waterfall and surf
>Dont want both special and physical water type on my team
Fuck this gay shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 19:01:04 No.53885289 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
Slavery

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 19:01:35 No.53885291 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
Zigzagoon a shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 19:32:53 No.53885528 Report

Quoted By:

>>53884606
is a shit game

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 May 2023 19:47:29 No.53885606 Report

Quoted By:

>>53878600
Situational

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